Something about Kris being associated with symbols of love such as hearts and roses.
Those kinds of things usually go to the soft, romantic, dreamer characters. In most stories characters like Noelle or Ralsei would have these associations. But Noelle doesn't have any heart associations and the only rose association she had was removed (because people take things too literally). And while Ralsei does have a heart on his robe, the things that often symbolize him are the Delta Rune symbol or even flame and light.
So the heart and rose symbols went to a character who's emotionally restrained and keeps everyone at an arm's length. Kinda ironic, isn't it? It really makes you realize why Kris keeps their soul in a cage or in other things. Obviously it's so they could get a reprieve from our bullshit, but it's also so they could physically remove their emotions from the situation and actually do what they need to do. Because otherwise i'm not entirely sure they would be able to endanger their friends and family by opening dark fountains. They would probably start second guessing themself and then get caught.
As for the roses, they famously have thorns to protect themselves and need to be handled with care. Throughout the platforming sections you do get roses as obstacles you need to cut through. Also, a blue flower with red thorns? That's gotta be a Shrek reference right? Much like how Kris removes their feelings so they could do the damn thing, they also don't let people get too close to them as a way to protect their loved ones and themself. But that comes with being alone.
Not entirely sure what I wanted to say with this because I feel like there's a lot to say that I just kind of don't know how to formulate.
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Something about Kris being associated with symbols of love such as hearts and roses.
Those kinds of things usually go to the soft, romantic, dreamer characters. In most stories characters like Noelle or Ralsei would have these associations. But Noelle doesn't have any heart associations and the only rose association she had was removed (because people take things too literally). And while Ralsei does have a heart on his robe, the things that often symbolize him are the Delta Rune symbol or even flame and light.
So the heart and rose symbols went to a character who's emotionally restrained and keeps everyone at an arm's length. Kinda ironic, isn't it? It really makes you realize why Kris keeps their soul in a cage or in other things. Obviously it's so they could get a reprieve from our bullshit, but it's also so they could physically remove their emotions from the situation and actually do what they need to do. Because otherwise i'm not entirely sure they would be able to endanger their friends and family by opening dark fountains. They would probably start second guessing themself and then get caught.
As for the roses, they famously have thorns to protect themselves and need to be handled with care. Throughout the platforming sections you do get roses as obstacles you need to cut through. Also, a blue flower with red thorns? That's gotta be a Shrek reference right? Much like how Kris removes their feelings so they could do the damn thing, they also don't let people get too close to them as a way to protect their loved ones and themself. But that comes with being alone.
Not entirely sure what I wanted to say with this because I feel like there's a lot to say that I just kind of don't know how to formulate.
This has been circulating in my mind for some time now and I just have to let it out even if I'm going to sound angry. Because this theory just pisses me off the more I think about it.
I never liked the "Kris loses their hand" theory, but I was sort of fine with it for the more violent routes like Weird Route. But now seeing how the WR actually went (in a way that no one was expecting I'm sure), chapter 5 release and just thinking about this theory some more it enrages me in a way no other DR theory has. And I've made a post about some theories I don't really like.
TL,DR: I hate this theory because it makes no narrative or thematic sense for Kris's story and the foreshadowing for it is vague and very off the main path of the story, which makes me question its importance when it comes to the main story.
First of all, I'm not entirely sure people who believe in this theory understand the repercussions of having a character, heck THE MAIN CHARACTER THEMSELF, lose a limb. That is not something you can just throw into your story for some dramatic effect. It's something that not only the character in question is affected by, but the story and the audience as a whole. It's not like a character death that you throw in for some shock value and then move on (although that is an asshole move too). It's something that the character would have to live with forever.
Let's take a look at characters from other media at the top of my head that have lost a limb:
Hiccup from How to Train Your Dragon. Lost a leg at the end of the movie. A bit of a shock value but it works because it makes the story go full circle. The movie's focus (and the focus of the whole franchise) is on the friendship of Hiccup and Toothless. Toothless loses a part of his tail at the beginning of the movie, it only makes sense for Hiccup to lose his leg at the end. It also binds the two together forever even if they choose to separate at the end of the trilogy. And it shows how dangerous and difficult it was for the Vikings of Berk to truly accept and befriend the dragons and realize what kind of damage they have done. It makes thematic and narrative sense.
Finn from Adventure Time. Lost an arm in the second half of the show. It works because there was a truck-ton of foreshadowing for it, kind of to a point where everyone just kind of expected it to happen. Finn's story throughout the show is a coming-of-age one and that comes with sacrifice. Especially in a pseudo post-apocalyptic world such as Ooo, where Finn wanted to be a hero in. It shows how much he's been through and how he learned to cope with it and grow and mature.
Yang from RWBY. Also lost an arm but early on. And it was very much her own recklessness catching up to her. Yang is a brawler so losing an arm, especially by failing to protect her (girl)friend, is going to hit her very hard. And it does. She takes a whole volume healing from what happened to her, learning how to refine her fighting style, how to live and overcome her trauma because of it and become stronger. You could argue about the execution of this arc, but it is here for a purpose.
Erwin from Attack on Titan. Loses his entire arm in a reckless charge where many soldiers died. That he ordered. Erwin is a complex man who is willing to make brutal sacrifices to achieve his goals. It was only a matter of time that that ruthlessness would catch up to him. It was karma, for all the deaths, many of them pointless, that are on his hands. So it would only make sense that fate would make him lose the arm needed to truly complete the Scout salute. Because he has made himself someone who cannot truly follow what the Scouts stand for.
For all of these characters, losing a limb had a narrative, thematic and even personal reasoning. What kind of reasoning does Kris have for losing their arm?
Kris's story is about identity and agency. It's about regaining everything that they have already lost and transforming it into something new in a healthy way.
Losing a hand cannot be about sacrifice because they have already sacrificed so much for their goal. Heck even their entire identity. It would go against Kris's main story arc, about learning who you truly are and how to accept all of it.
Losing a hand cannot be about repercussions for past actions. This is a mentally ill teenager from a broken home we're talking about. What could they have possibly done for fate to decide that they shouldn't be able to play the piano anymore? Y'know the one thing that is so intrinsically tied to their identity, that no matter what you choose, which path you take, Kris refuses to give that up. At this point I'm pretty sure you would have to pry the piano from their dead body.
Losing a hand this late into the story doesn't allow for much further development, so that's out of the question. It also doesn't work thematically, because the world of Deltarune isn't really that brutal or ruthless.
AND all of this ASSUMING that it will happen. Which will it? Does it have any meaningful foreshadowing for it?
All of the foreshadowing for this are in secret rooms you would need to go out of your way to find. And the foreshadowing itself focuses on hands in such a strange and weird way that you can interpret it in many ways. Yes we got more lore on Friend and eggs from Pink but the only way to get this is also something that you don't just stumble upon. The only I guess foreshadowing for this that I can think of that is in the main story, is Susie talking about how the protagonist of some game (I forgot the name of) wakes up one day with a severed hand. Which could mean nothing or could mean something entirely different. I mean she does joke about her and Noelle finding a severed hand in the basement when it was just the Soul. And I don't see anyone overanalyzing that.
A good, solid foreshadowing is the golden flower torn in half in the second board of Tenna's game being about Flowery's death. Ralsei is even the one finding it and commenting on it. That is a foreshadowing on the main story for something that did happen. None of the allusions to the 'Kris loses their hand" theory are like this and I don't know about you guys but if I was mister Leaves Hints for My Dream Game in the Game Made Earlier, I would include meaningful foreshadowing for my main protagonist losing their hand on the main path of the story, NOT in secrets that may or may not be relevant to anything.
If you made it this far down, allow me to play devil's advocate for a moment and talk about Susie. Now what does Susie have to do with any of this? Well she is also a potential candidate for losing a part of herself. And I mean her eye. She was mentored by Gerson (missing an eye), Gerson has connections to Undyne (also missing an eye in UT), as in being Undyne's idol. All three of them have themes of justice, heroism and a unique ability to defy the game's established rules when they want or need to. Susie's story is also leaning more towards sacrifice than Kris's, as in she would probably have to let go of the Dark Worlds and face her problems in the Light World (and by letting go I don't mean sealing the Castle Town fountain, I think it's a bit more nuanced than that). It makes more thematic sense to me for Susie to lose an eye than for Kris to lose a hand. And I don't think either of these are actually going to happen, nor do I want them to happen!
Thanks for reading all of this, I just had to let it out of my system.
I don't think that the eggs, friend and the forgotten man are going to be all that relevant to the main story. That doesn't mean that you can't discuss it, do whatever you want, have fun. I just feel like something that is so weird and cryptic is most likely going to have a weird and cryptic ending.
I think the Sword Route might be the most misunderstood part of Deltarune. I've seen a number of people describe it as "torture", or treat it as if the player is mistreating Kris, and I just don't think that it holds up to the reputation.
Don't get me wrong: it's dark and disturbing, even moreso to Kris than to us. The game that this route revolves around seems like their worst fears brought to life: a scenario where they lash out and hurt everyone they know and love. Not for any good reason - just to prove the creator's sadistic point that they're an evil person, deep down. They claim that Kris's kindness is just a facade; that, if you strip away the pretense of caring, you get a person who wants nothing more than to rip and tear and kill. This image is so powerful that, by the end, it's become its own distinct entity - and breaks out of the game to menace Kris and Susie.
But neither of them are ever actually harmed. And that, I think, is the point.
The Manthole game, according to its narrator, was designed to make Kris show their "true colors". To demonstrate who they REALLY are, by forcing them to act that way in a game. But video games aren't reality, and this one, in particular, is a sandbox with almost no meaningful consequences. Instead of a trap to corrupt Kris, it turns into a kind of exposure therapy: an environment where they can confront their fear, with plenty of breaks to ground themself between sessions.
Ultimately, that's exactly what ends up happening: Kris plays the Sword Route for a while, heads back to touch base and hang out with friends, then comes back and picks it up to face the next leg of the journey. In every section, Kris's on-screen doppelganger does horrible things - but in the end, it all stays in the game. Even in the end, when HERO_SWORD breaks out and attacks Kris and Susie, no one is actually hurt - they give each of them a good scare, and immediately leave.
This happens twice, to be clear. The first time, the doppelganger "attacks" Kris, but takes off without actually trying to hurt them. The second time, they're close to hitting Susie, but Kris pulls her out of the way and they give up again. As frightening as this specter is, it has no actual power to hurt Kris or their friends - not when the real Kris is there to care for and protect them.
At the end of the adventure, you're given the Shadow Mantle - supposedly a symbol of all the violence you did in the game. But look again: this is a defensive item, not the kind of equipment you get from doing violence. Rather than the cape of a sadistic killer, it's an emblem of the journey Kris has just been through - and the extra strength they were able to gain by facing and withstanding their fears.
I didn't even think of the Mantle games being a sort of exposure therapy for Kris. That just changed my whole perspective on this.
I mean I still feel kinda sick even thinking about playing it but now it's not as out of the question as the Weird Route.
Also I found it kinda unintentionally funny that the games were designed to show Kris their true nature but Kris throughout this whole thing is incredibly sceptical. They make a sour face at Eram when he accuses them of enjoying killing people (or the crap going on in the WR if you're on that save). When the second board ends with the "you were used up" message, Kris looks away for a moment and unplugs the controller themself, almost saying that they're not doing this anymore. There's dialogue from Ramb suggesting that Kris asked him if there was someone else playing the game. Kris is NOT buying what the games are selling.
It kind of feels like they looked at Eram and the Mantle games and just went "fuck off, can't be side-tracked with cheap corruption methods" (that was a WWDITS reference btw)
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Look I know that the song Lifelight was made specifically for Smash Bros but if you would have looked dead in my eyes and told me in all seriousness that it was made for Deltarune, I would believe you 100%, no questions asked.
I need to find more Deltarune fans who think like me.
AKA who think that practically every teenager in this game is love-starved in some way and people thinking that romance is the solution is kinda reductive and narrow-minded.
Deltarune explores all kinds of love not just romantic: platonic love, familiar love, self-love, love for nostalgia and the past, love for fiction and entertainment and probably more.
Focusing on just the romantic aspect of these relationships, whether it's there or not, is depriving yourself of the richness of these dynamics.
A lot more under cut.
Suselle is the only actually canon relationship because it's the only one where what the other needs to learn to grow is externalized within another. Noelle likes Susie for her assertiveness and the ability to unabashedly be herself and that's what Noelle's character arc is about - learning to take control of her life and who she chooses to be in a healthy way. While Susie likes Noelle for her kindness, softness and faith in others, she allows Susie to be more open and vulnerable and how it's ok to be like that. And of course, the relationship had a foundation in friendship and common interests before it became official.
The fun gang is primarily about friendship with hints of unconditional love, but it has its own personal love themes within each of the dynamics - Ralsusie is about love for fiction("you're real to me!"), Kralsei is about self-love(Kris firmly differentiating Ralsei from Asriel and Ralsei learning how to see who Kris actually is outside of our influence) and Krusie i think is about platonic love or at the very least the love in-between platonic and romantic("whatever we are, it's cooler right?").
Focusing on Kriselle only on the Weird route is like a subproblem of this because i think they're just as interesting on the Normal route. Kriselle, i believe, is supposed to represent love for nostalgia and the past, on top of having themes of change and transformation. The Kris and Noelle we see in present aren't the same people as in the past but their dynamic hasn't changed all that much - Kris still messes with Noelle and Noelle still gets upset with them for this. The difference is that Kris's pranks are no where near as elaborate as before and that Noelle is sometimes willing to get back at them or take it in a lot more playful manner.
We don't know yet what the dynamic between Noelle and Ralsei is going to be but i can see it being about love for the unknown and maybe about fear as well. Learning how to appreciate what scares you rather than hiding or running from it.
Lastly, i think it's interesting that we're experiencing the game primarily from Kris's perspective. Because Kris is emotionally closed off by nature, while everyone else learns to open up fairly quickly. Even if it's bit by bit. And it's not because Kris cares less than their friends, it's because they care too much. They started with a broken family, no friends and one estranged friend and in a span of like 3-4 in game days they gained two close friends, reconnected with their childhood friend and recently started to reconnect with their dad without strings attached. That is a lot in such a short period of time for emotionally guarded Kris who also feels deeply. It makes sense that they wouldn't know how to deal with or process all of this with The Dread™ of being a traitor on the side.
So has anyone noticed how we have no control over the soul's light?
We can move the soul freely, we can use it as a cursor for menus, it has other soul modes that we can play with. But when it comes to its light ability, the most important thing, there's no button we can press to turn it on/off nor does it have config settings. It just kind of does that. On its own.
I've also noticed, while playing through the Holiday mansion section, that the soul breathes. You can see the circle of light surrounding it move in and out slowly. The soul being able to breathe doesn't surprise me but it is kind of unsettling.
And, yes, while there are acts we can use for the soul's light, those are provided to us by Kris, just like all acts. They're the one having some kind of an intuitive control over the soul's light. How the light dims and even disappears when Noelle and Susie find you, because Kris doesn't want the soul to be found. The soul lights up on its own during the dark place scene, kind of like a response to Susie's comment of not being able to see. It also changes the positioning, with Kris being up front and center rather than leading the party like before. It also does the same at the last fountain responding to Susie's smile.
Interacting with the water fountain at school in chapter 5 has Kris close the flow of water with their hand, with the narration saying that the fountain was sealed. Now this is obviously a silly, fun interaction, but again "sealing the fountain" is something that Kris does on their own, the most we can do is direct them toward the fountain.
I don't really have a reasoning for what this could mean but I felt like it's worth pointing out.
Every single time I want to post a Deltarune related rant I realize it's roughly a week before my period starts meaning the reason why I'm getting so irritated by certain things in this fandom is because my hormones and emotions are going wild.
But then again my opinions afterwards don't really change I can just look at them and voice them more critically. So I guess if you want to hear my sorta spicy takes you'll have to wait until everything is not making me want to throw my phone across the room.
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Chapter 5 got me even more interested in the relationship between Kris and Asgore.
The flowers are supposed to represent different aspects of Asgore's family life, so for one of the flowers (Aqua) to basically just be a younger Kris very much sticks out. Especially when none of the flowers fully represent anyone else from Asgore's family and friends, just aspects. It's also worth pointing out that the Flower Kingdom dark world was created by Kris so their will is also reflected within it. It makes me think that the two were pretty close in the past.
There are a couple more hints to this too: the Aqua parallels suggest that Kris used to help Asgore with his work, whether in the garden or with police (maybe Asgore even brought them to the police station, after all he was the chief), the photo on Toriel's PC wallpaper in her classroom being that of Asgore watching his cowboy shows while bouncing younger Kris on his knee.
Kris is fairly avoidant when it comes to their dad, and they avoid things that are either too hurtful or they just don't have the mental or emotional capacity to deal with that right now, and if they did connect more with their dad than mom then Asgore going off the deep end with his conspiracies must have been hurtful to Kris, ie not liking looking at conspiracy boards. They also instinctively take a step back when Asgore pushes them and Susie out of the DW, almost like something like this has happened before, with Kris wanting to help their dad with work like they usually do only for Asgore to push them away. Or maybe they got scared I mean Asgore is a big dude who tends to get a bit violent when angry. I cannot imagine what they felt when Asgore was talking about parading the fountain makers body across Hometown. Even I was nervous. I already struggled with Aqua's omega attack, didn't feel like fighting Asgore again.
But back on track, I think that Kris genuinely wanted to help their dad, even approaching Flowery about it on their own at the start of the cliffs. And Asgore does end up learning his lesson at the end when he sees Kris hurt. Some people found that change quick and, while I'm not a parent nor plan to be, I'm pretty sure your kids getting involved in the mess you believe is yours and then getting hurt by it would probably make you rethink how you approach this. Asgore is nowhere near to being Father of the Year but he does take accountability and genuinely wants to do better.
He also did something that no one else who noticed Kris acting differently did. Even though it took him 5 chapters to notice, Asgore acknowledged how Kris has changed and was proud of them. He was the first one to see Kris growing and changing as a good thing while everyone else was just either confused or concerned. (Which is fair to be, especially in this situation, but it's not very helpful to Kris.) He also saw how they acted in the DW knowing that it's not just a dream, so I feel like his words carry meaning.
And then he gets kidnapped, possibly sent to his death with Kris being partly responsible for it. Oof. Imagine your estranged dad, who you were once close with, opening up to you about his problems and willingness to work on them while simultaneously saying how proud he is of the person you're becoming only for him to be put on a death list moments after. I wouldn't be surprised if Asgore's words end up haunting Kris for the next chapter similarly to how it's Asgore's words to Chara on their death bed that show up in every game over screen in UT.
And finally, we know for a fact that Kris shares some mannerisms with Toriel, like smiling at Susie at the diner, but their overall personality seems to be more similar to Asgore. They're both put in a leadership position, they both naturally want to protect and help others, they're both undercover nerds, they're both shown to get really violent when they feel cornered, they both push their loved ones away when they deem something more important only to regret it later. Of course Kris picked up some traits from Toriel too, like their empathy and patience is 100% from her, but I think that overall they connected with their dad more.
I'm still thinking about that scene in Dess's room in chapter 4. The contrast between Suselle gossiping while you're literally fighting for your life just one door away is absolutely hilarious, but that's not why I think about it so often.
Noelle and Susie are talking about their different experiences with Kris and how each of them has seen a side of Kris that the other hasn't. Noelle has known them her entire life, which is why she can notice when they're acting differently, but doesn't even think about how they may have changed over the years or how they act in the dark world (of course Noelle doesn't know yet about the dark worlds but still.) While Susie only got to know them via the dark worlds and hasn't seen much of what they're like without our influence.
On top of that, Kris is listening to their conversation in the closet of Noelle's missing sister, beating their literal heart into submission. And they end up failing anyway.
It's wild to me how we've literally spent FIVE CHAPTERS in Kris's head yet there are still people who have no clue what their actual true identity and personality is like and how they'd react to things.
They're always so surprised when Kris acts independently or when they do acknowledge their personality, it's mischaracterized as all hell.
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Some Deltarune theories I really REALLY don't like
Rudy knight - feels like a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist and isn't all that narratively satisfying. Heck I'd be LESS surprised if it's Carol than Rudy and I don't think it's Carol either
Kressel - same as above: plot twist for the sake of a plot twist and not all that narratively satisfying. But also it's from a subgenre of theories where it feels like people are upset that they can't project onto Kris so they make it so they can't possibly have a leading role in the narrative and need to have a supporting role instead, this one being in support of us. I could go on about why I hate this theory but now is not the time.
Susie is the hero of Deltarune - look I like this direction for her character but I feel like people are forgetting that it's supposed to be an escapist fantasy for her and that lens is just so much more interesting to me than just "Susie is the chosen one who will save the day"
Kriselle knight
And I think that's all. Good thing that I'm not that deep in this part of the fandom.
It just sounds kind of silly to me. And you would have to go through a lot of assumptions to make it work specifically on how amalgamates work and timeline shenanigans.
That could also be the reason why I don't like most of the theories mentioned here and just overall - you have to make a lot of assumptions instead of just focusing on what you have.
