hate that I was understanding when I should’ve just been a cunt

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@kingjjon
hate that I was understanding when I should’ve just been a cunt

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you've got to admit you were wrong every once in a while. it gives other people false hope that they can convince you of things
Hello! Asks! 2, 22, 30 :)
Oh hi! Thank you for asking! I was actually thinking of answering them all just for kicks but here you go:
2. A minor (or extinct) house you need more lore on I'd say House Tarth. The lore we have about the Isle of Tarth and their local legends just enthralls me on its own, especially the story of Ser Galladon of Morne, a knight so valiant that the Maiden herself fell in love with him, descended from the heavens, and gifted him an enchanted sword. The whole thing is so steeped in the spirit of Arthurian romance and noble-spirited medieval legend that just leaves me wanting for more of stuff like this. 22. A character so queer-coded you’d argue it to GRRM’s face This is a tough one. It's probably going to be a hot take, but there's something about Robert Baratheon that makes me go hmmm. The only woman of his life is long dead and unavailable for him to even talk to, and his most meaningful human connection was with the man who was the only one who made him feel alive again when he was all but dead inside. The whole Robert-Lyanna-Ned situation makes me think that Ned means a lot more to him than Lyanna ever did; he didn't even know her properly and still went to war for her, and I'd argue he was so adamant about marrying Lyanna because he wanted to be a part of Ned's family specifically. They grew up together (que Olenna's quote about stableboys etc), fought multiple wars together, Robert trusts him with his life, kingdom and legacy, and Lyanna is just a symbol to him, a name. A beard, almost? Like marrying her would allow him to be with Ned for the rest of his life. Roberts hypersexuality is curious to me as well. I feel like it's a way for him to feel alive again and maybe?? prove it to himself that at the end of the day he's still interested in women. And yet no woman is capable of making him truly happy. Ned is. 30. A POV character you wish wasn’t Tyrion. I used to demonize him, and I simply couldn’t read his chapters with any peace of mind; but lately, re-reading the books with fresh eyes, I’ve finally been able to see the beauty in his character. And yet. I’m currently re-reading AGOT, and my reading keeps stalling precisely on Tyrion’s chapters. There are noticeably more of them than for any other POVs, and they are longer, too.
Thanks again for the ask!
🐺ASOIAF Themed Asks 🐉
(feel free to include TWOIAF as well!)
Favorite Great House
A minor (or extinct) house you need more lore on
Favorite sigil/house words
Favorite Valyrian sword
A dead female character you need to save
Which book or character did you not like at first but eventually grew on you?
Which Free City are you retiring to?
Build your own Kingsguard with any characters alive or dead
Build your small council with any characters dead or alive
A quote so good it makes you crazy
Favorite bastard
Who are you traveling the ravaged Riverlands with?
A death that still hurts to think about
Who are you bringing back from the dead with the power of R’hllor?
Favorite parent
Favorite sibling dynamic
Favorite theme
A mystery you need solved NOW
A theory you’ve adopted as canon
A theory you pray never comes true
A moment that made you cry
A character so queer-coded you’d argue it to GRRM’s face
Two characters you need to interact
A ship that gives you the absolute ick
A crackship?
Favorite “problematic” ship
Favorite canon ship
If you write fic, is there a ship or au you would like to write for, but haven’t yet?
If you read fic, what’s a trope or interpretation of your fave that you absolutely can’t stand? Which AU/trope will you read every time?
A POV character you wish wasn’t
Who would you elevate to a POV character?
A fancast you absolutely can’t stand
A fancast that just IS a character
What’s something people get wrong about your favorite character?
A character you just don’t get the hype of
What’s something you wish GRRM handled better? (a character/theme/world building etc)
An event/era in TWOIAF that you would love to see a film/tv adaptation of
Is there a house would you fit in with based off your own looks? A house you would fit in with based off your personality/ideals/vibes etc?
Your Drunk History topic (a character/theory/event/etc)
Be honest, are you still waiting for TWOW?
she really just like me fr fr
Sansa stark, everyone [crowd goes fuckin crazy]

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"I asked Chat GPT" — well, I asked Mother Nature and she said your brain and soul are rotting inside of you.
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,
A light from the shadows shall spring;
Renewed shall be blade that was broken,
The crownless again shall be king.”
SPOILERS - Sansa and Jon connections.
Some thoughts on Sansa and Jon from a lovely westeros.org board contributor, A Thousand Eyes and Two. The original post is here.
Sansa and Jon are, as far as I can tell, the only two Starks we never actually see interact in “present” time, and I don’t think that’s a coincidence from a literary standpoint. Everything we know of their past interactions comes via someone’s reminiscences, so each is present in the other’s life, but only in the past, never in the present. If Jon and Sansa meet in the future, it will doubtless come across to readers, in a very real way, as their very first meeting. Given the changes they’ve both undergone since their last meeting, that type of dynamic makes a certain amount of literary sense.
At the beginning of the series, Jon and Sansa seemed to sit at two opposite ends of the “Stark” children’s cultural spectrum: Sansa is viewed by other characters as the most culturally “southern” of the children, (and she did initially seem to value “southern” courtly culture more than Northern culture), while Jon is viewed as the most culturally “Northern” of the Starks because he does not associate with southern-based institutions. Sansa was the Stark child most heavily and explicitly associated with the Faith of the Seven (she was always with her septa and she’s the Stark child we see actually worshiping in the sept the most), while Jon was, at the beginning of the series, the most heavily associated with the Old Gods (given that he’s the only one of the children who does not keep the Faith at all, not to mention Ghost’s physical resemblance to a weirwood tree). Of the boys, Jon looks the most like Ned, while Sansa looks the most (out of the girls) like Catelyn—-superficially, readers were encouraged, in the beginning, to associate Sansa and Jon with two different “regions”, one with the South and one with the North.
In AGOT, Sansa and Jon occupied two very different, inherently non-overlapping worlds, and each person’s understanding of how “the world” worked implicitly contained no real “place” for the other. By that I mean: Jon loved to fight, occupied a world in which fighting was the primary activity, and at the beginning had a great deal of difficulty interacting with people incapable of fighting. Look at his initial attitude toward Tyrion as well as the other Watch recruits, for example. Sansa is the one Stark child inherently incapable of fighting. She loved knitting, dancing, listening to singers, things that Jon had no use for—-there was no room for Sansa in Jon’s “world”.
And Sansa’s “world” contained no real “place” for Jon. She believed that knighthood and its accompanying (southern) chivalric code were the celebrated foundations of the world, and interpreted everything she saw through that cultural lens. Sansa knew her “world of chivalry” clearly viewed a bastard like Jon with suspicion, and because of that, I think Sansa probably had difficulty holding what seemed like two contradictory notions in her head: on the one hand, Jon was her brother, raised along with her and someone she never seemed to have any open conflicts with (unlike Arya, for example), and on the other hand, as the occupier of a “place” (bastard) that her social code condemned.
Now, I think it’s worth noting that, although bastards have far lesser status in Westerosi society, there are “places” that can be carved out for them nonetheless, especially for paternally-acknowledged highborn bastards like Jon: we’re told that bastards have served in the Kingsguard, a bastard (Sam Stone) serves as Master-At-Arms for House Royce of Runestone, a bastard ends up on Cersei’s Small Council, at least one bastard served as Hand of the King, bastards freely join the Citadel and the Faith, etc., etc. But the issue with Jon is that Sansa, during AGOT, pretty clearly viewed knighthood as the central aspect of a man’s worth. To “properly” occupy an honored place in “Sansa’s world”, Jon would have to first be a knight—-not just a fighter, but an actual anointed knight, with all of the accompanying chivalric duties and responsibilities. (Look at how she thinks about Jory vs. how she thinks of Alyn in AGOT for an illustration of this.) Jon clearly had the fighting ability to attain knighthood, but unlike the other Starks, he has never kept the Seven at all. Knighthood was never a real possibility for him, as it was for Robb/Bran/Rickon, and presumably Sansa recognized that. I think it was difficult for her, especially early on, to really find a positive place for Jon in her understanding of the world, because he obviously couldn’t be a septon, he couldn’t join the Citadel (she would have recognized Jon wasn’t exactly a bookworm), he was not in line for lordship, and he wasn’t going to be a knight … but deep down she loved him nonetheless. So what was he? Where did he fit? How could she believe that knighthood and chivalry were the cornerstones of her society while simultaneously having a relationship with her non-knight bastard brother? I think this is why Sansa was, in the beginning, so very, very keen on pointing out Jon’s exact relationship to her: her half-brother, a bastard. I think deep down Jon really confused her, and this was her way of repeatedly clarifying to herself exactly who Jon was, of seeking a measure of control over a relationship that must have confuzzled her greatly, because its very existence contradicted her understanding of how the world was supposed to work.
Because while Jon and Sansa seemed to have the most “distant” relationship of the Stark children, it’s pretty clear that Jon and Sansa did always love each other deep down. At the Wall, Jon mentioned that he missed Sansa. In ADWD, when he thinks of his lost siblings, right before he starts making plans to head to Winterfell, an image of Sansa brushing Lady’s coat and singing is included. And even in AGOT, though Sansa rarely thought about Jon, when he did enter her thoughts we saw her seem to subconsciously want Jon to occupy a “positive” position in her understanding of the world order. We know from Jon that Sansa tried to teach him how to talk to girls, and though he mentions that she always called him her “half”-brother, there’s no indication she tried to ignore or insult him, as other trueborn children might have done to a bastard. Her love for him was clearly not as “free” as Arya’s love for him was—-Sansa’s world of chivalry and knighthood was a stumbling block to such a relationship, so it’s easy for readers to overlook that she did love him. But even in AGOT, look at her reaction to Yoren:
She had always imagined the Night’s Watch to be men like Uncle Benjen. In the songs, they were called the black knights of the Wall. But this man had been crookbacked and hideous, and he looked as though he might have lice. If this was what the Night’s Watch was truly like, she felt sorry for her bastard half brother, Jon.
It’s easy for readers to focus on her calling Jon her “bastard half brother” here, but if we look a little deeper, we notice how she also thinks to herself that the singers called the Watch “the black knights of the Wall”. This is important because we know what a huge premium Sansa was putting on the idea of knighthood. Though religion seemingly prevents Jon from attaining knighthood, Sansa seemed to subconsciously look for a loophole there, and found one in the songs: her beloved singers could “grant” Jon a sort of honorary knighthood as a member of the Watch, so that is the route her thoughts took.
(And here we also see that Jon and Sansa, though superficially incredibly divergent, actually did look at the world in somewhat similar ways: each believed in the stories and songs, in honor—-just different stories and different methods of honor. Each believed Benjen Stark was the prototypical Watchman. Jon believed all Watchmen were true and honorable, Sansa believed all knights were true and honorable. They each had specific ideas about how a specific place was supposed to be (the Wall and the South), and each of them had those ideas dashed by reality.)
As ASOIAF has progressed, we’ve seen Jon and Sansa slip into each other’s roles, into each other’s shoes. Jon becomes a Lord in ASOS, the same book in which Sansa ceases “being” a Lady. Robb disinherited Sansa at the same time (if the will says what many suspect it does) that he declared he wanted Jon to inherit. Becoming Alayne meant Sansa became a bastard, just like Jon, (and Jon could very well have been declared trueborn by Robb’s will, which would mean that Sansa “became” a bastard and Jon “became” a trueborn Stark). Sansa began her story by loving singers, and has progressed toward disliking them (Marillion), while Jon initially seemed to have no use for singers … until he met the singer Mance Rayder. The Littlefinger/Lysa/Sansa dynamic played out almost as a vicious, over-the-top caricature of the Ned/Catelyn/Jon dynamic, with Sansa forced to literally stand in a (heavily skewed and sensationalized) version of Jon’s shoes: Catelyn saw Jon as a living representation of another woman that she feared Ned loved more than her, and Lysa saw Sansa as a living representation of Catelyn, the woman that Lysa (rightly) feared Littlefinger loved more than her. Sansa seemed to have a much closer relationship with her mother than with her father (the exact opposite of Jon), but “Alayne” had a much “closer” relationship with Littlefinger than with Lysa—-Sansa takes on with Littlefinger (a much skeevier version of) the relatively close father/child relationship that Jon had with Ned.
In her final chapter of AFFC, Sansa thinks to herself:
She had not thought of Jon in ages.
Or so Sansa tells herself. But I think there’s a pretty good chance Sansa had actually been subconsciously thinking about Jon ever since she took on the Alayne Stone identity, because Sansa seems to be subconsciously patterning her “Alayne Stone” persona around Jon Snow. Sansa wants “Alayne” to be 14 years old, because “She had decided that Alayne Stone should be older than Sansa Stark”. How old was Jon the last time Sansa saw him? 14 years old. She becomes worried at the prospect of dancing, because she seems to think that, for some unexplained reason, Alayne Stone might not enjoy dancing:
What would she do when the music began to play? It was a vexing question, to which her heart and head gave different answers. Sansa loved to dance, but Alayne…
Dancing is a pretty popular activity among women of all social classes and we know it’s an activity very close to Sansa’s heart, given that she was able to dance even at her own terrible wedding. But then in ADWD we discover that Jon does not appear to enjoy dancing—-he refuses to dance with Alys, and Alys teases him about it when she brings up previous dances they were forced to dance together at Winterfell. If Sansa is subconsciously patterning “Alayne” on Jon Snow, then the fact that she’s concerned that Alayne might not enjoy dancing makes quite a bit of sense, given that Jon’s apparent dislike of dancing seems like the sort of thing Sansa would have picked up on. (In other words, if “Alayne” is patterned after Jon Snow, then the “real” reason Sansa fears Alayne won’t like dancing is because Sansa knows Jon, on whom Alayne is molded, dislikes dancing.) Sansa thinks of Alayne as “bastard-brave”, and since she barely knows Mya, what bastard does Sansa want Alayne to be as brave as? The obvious answer is Jon. And we see “Alayne” take on the type of caregiver role with Sweetrobin that the other Stark children (Bran and Arya, especially) seem to have associated with Jon, a role that Sansa herself seemed to take on with people like Beth Cassel and Jeyne Poole in Winterfell, but not with her own younger siblings.
He was only her half brother, but still… with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again.
This is Sansa’s thought process once Myranda Royce tells her about Jon’s new position as Lord Commander of the Watch. If I’m correct and she’s had Jon on the brain throughout AFFC, then this right here actually serves as a breakthrough for her, because Sansa goes from subconsciously longing for Jon to explicitly longing for Jon. And her thought process here is a pretty useful distillation of how far Sansa’s come from AGOT, a semi-culmination of her ideological journey thus far: the main issues she once had with Jon—-that he was a bastard, that he didn’t “fit” the world of knights and chivalry that Sansa loved—-have been essentially nullified. She starts out with the “old” Sansa’s thought patterns (“He was only her half-brother”), but then she immediately (and pretty substantially) switches gears and starts openly longing to see Jon again, expressly thinking about how she’s now a bastard too. The ideological barriers between them are basically gone.
Indeed, Sansa’s entire arc had been bringing her closer and closer, ideologically, to the forces (winter, the North, and the Old Gods) represented by Jon. Sansa started out in AGOT preferring the Faith of the Seven, loving knighthood, loving the south, and losing her direwolf. By AFFC, we see her (far) more heavily associated with the Old Gods, favoring a non-knight (the Hound), and in an overall sense, switching gears from the epitomization of a “summer’s child” to (IMO) someone on the path to becoming a “winter’s child”. Jon and Sansa become the Starks who we see most heavily drawing their inner strength from the cold and the snow: Jon mentions on more than one occasion that Ghost loves the snow, we see Jon frequently seeking out the cold (not the heat) at the Wall. We see Sansa literally drawing strength from the snow and the cold at the Eyrie. In the beginning of AGOT, Sansa wanted only to be a queen in the hot south. By AFFC, we see her building a scale model of Winterfell and drawing spiritual strength from the forces of winter.
Given the way Sansa seems to have been sliding more and more “toward” Jon as her arc has progressed—-given the way her arc has been bringing her closer to him both ideologically and thematically—-I wonder what implications Jon’s stabbing (and the potential future that stabbing could bring for him) have for Sansa’s future. Because the myth of Persephone looms large over both Jon and Sansa, and given what happened to Jon at the end of ADWD, I’m very, very curious what GRRM has in store for Sansa’s arc, especially now that winter has come.
Both Jon and Sansa encounter “the pomegranate”: Sansa is offered a literal pomegranate by Littlefinger, while Jon’s rulership arc in ADWD was confronted at every turn by the Old Pomegranate, Bowen Marsh. The pomegranate, in Greek mythology, is what causes Persephone to become Queen of the Dead in perpetuity, and it’s the reason winter comes in the first place—-winter, in Greek mythology, being viewed as Demeter’s grief at her separation from her daughter when Persephone descends every year to rule in the Underworld. The pomegrante causes Persephone to undertake two disparate roles, to become a creature of two separate worlds: she is both the Goddess of Spring and the Queen of the Underworld simultaneously (and concurrently), she rules in both the sunlight and the darkness. That idea—-of a person moving between two contradictory spheres of existence, of a person gaining strength by a capacity to move between the darkness and the light—-is a theme GRRM has played around with in other works, so there’s an excellent chance he’s exploring it in ASOIAF as well.
Both Jon and Sansa choose to reject “the pomegranate”: Jon rejects the Old Pomegranate’s demands for the future of the Watch, Sansa rejects Littlefinger’s attempt to have her eat an actual pomegranate. But look at what happened to Jon in ADWD: he refused to acquiese to the Old Pomegranate’s wishes, but the Old Pomegranate would not quietly accept rejection, choosing to physically attack him: there’s been a lot of speculation on these boards that the attack on Jon will lead to some death-based transformation, that he (like Persephone) might find himself transformed (and possibly occupying a new leadership role) because of the Old Pomegranate. GRRM apparently had some Sansa chapters prepared for ADWD, but he pushed them back to TWOW. I’m very curious about what those chapters contained.
Because winter has now come, and in winter, Persephone rules over the dead. Sansa’s arc has tracked Persephone in some pretty substantial ways: at the beginning of AGOT, when summer was in swing, she was the Stark most heavily associated with the warmth and frivolity of the South, just as Persephone was the flower-loving Goddess of Spring; Sansa was forced to marry, against her will, a man heavily associated with worldly wealth (in Greek mythology, Hades is associated with wealth because gold, silver, and jewels are drawn from beneath the ground, and Hades of course rules the Underworld). As winter approaches, Sansa loses her childlike innocence and naivete. And winter has now hit Westeros, and will presumably hit with a vengeance during TWOW—-so what will Sansa become in the winter? Where winter is a time of imprisonment for Persephone, with spring/summer freeing her to walk the warm world above, it seems that summer was a time of imprisonment for Sansa, and winter might end up freeing her. And the story of Persephone ends with Persephone holding dominion over the dead during the winter. This might be a hint toward our pomegranate-associated characters’ future, especially given the heavy associations both Jon and Sansa have with the living dead. (With Jon, those associations are obvious—-he’s a living man who wears black, his direwolf is named Ghost, he’s fighting wights. With Sansa, the associations are less obvious but no less profound: Sansa’s direwolf is dead (and since the Starks “are” their direwolves, Sansa is both alive and dead simultaneously because part of her is dead while part of her lives on), Littlefinger associates her with Catelyn reborn (and Catelyn has literally become the walking dead), not to mention the Hound: “The Hound is dead” we are told, and this “dead man” of course hated fire—-I doubt it’s a coincidence that this description of the Hound, as a walking dead man who hates fire, sounds quite a bit like a wight.)
And then there’s this bit from AFFC:
All around was empty air and sky, the ground falling away sharply to either side. There was ice underfoot, and broken stones just waiting to turn an ankle, and the wind was howling fiercely. It sounds like a wolf, thought Sansa. A ghost wolf, big as mountains.
It’s easy to forget sometimes that AFFC and ADWD were originally meant to be one super-book. Could Sansa have been “sensing” Jon’s “death” here? Is the “ghost wolf” Ghost? Or is there a hint here for Sansa herself? She’s become a Stone, and she’s been told that a stone is a mountain’s daughter. The cold winds are howling, and she thinks the cold winds are becoming a ghost wolf—-is Sansa, she of the dead direwolf, en route to her own eventual death and resurrection?
I think jonsas dismissing j+d as something a pure invention is dishonest. We know they're gonna have a connection with each other and if it's not romantic then GRRM shouldn't have made Val as a Daenerys stand in. There are grounds for their romantic entanglement.
We don't "know" anything. It's all theories and it's all differences of opinion and interpretation! Bar possibly R+L=J, I'll always bristle at any theory being proclaimed as "basically canon."
But I'll tell you, and I'm being honest here, the evidence I find most "compelling" re J+D is... it's just how fucking derivitive it is. Oh sure, there are grounds all right... derivitive grounds.
I've been outside of the jonsa fandom for a while and engaging with content from BNFs made me change my perspective a bit. Still whenever I see predictions about Jon and Daenerys meeting and falling in love ('obviously' is the word thrown around a lot), it's just. Why exactly?
There are heaps of connections between Jon and Sansa in the books and what's funny to me is how the same people who are displaying levels of media literacy and active analytical reading that I myself am jealous of overlook said connections over and over again. I watched a 4 hour stream recently that was dedicated solely to Sansa's character and when I tell you it was HILARIOUS the way two people were staring at 'a ghost wolf, big as mountains' and went: I wonder what it means. I have no idea. I can't read suddenly...
Another creator that I really like made an analysis of Jon and Catelyn parallels and spelled it out for me that both Ygritte and Catelyn are women who are not only surprisingly similar but also women whose love is forbidden for Jon, and I was like "yeah true, and I can think of a third character who ALSO fits this mold perfectly". What I'm trying to say is that BNFs see the Jonsa too, they're mostly choosing not to draw those connections.
But when it comes to Jon and Daenerys, all of a sudden it's 'obvious' that they're gonna meet and fall in love, when it's not obvious at all. Neither Jons nor Danys POV contains the same level of paralles and symbolism that Jons and Sansas POV have. I suspect this is just plain confirmation bias (of which I myself as a Jonsa might be guilty as well) but it's just astonishing to me how the very same people who see so much more in those texts than I do just fail completely at acknowledging those oceans of connections between Jon and Sansa. Sorry for the rant

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sansa gets so much hate for this line but have we considered that she was just exercising bastard to future bastard telepathic communication
also the level of empathy at 11? iconic
i used to tell myself ‘maybe they’re going through something’ but then i realized that i was too and i never treated anyone that way.
why do you hate show jonsa
anon do not !!!! ever ever call me a hater again!!! i fought in the great wars of 2019 i was in the trenches of asoiaf/got world wide web while kit and sophie were telling anyone who would listen that the jonsa takeover was a cataclysmic event Worse than homicidal ice zombies. i am a seasoned warrior of forehead kiss truthism !!
that being said……… show jonsa and book jonsa are entirely separate entities to me,,,, it’s like being in two different fandoms. and i have my gripes about what the show did to jon and sansa’s characters i dont like how they robbed us of the crazy gothic vibes and made jon Cookie Cutter Hero and sansa Cookie Cutter Girlboss. d&d punished my pooki for her whimsy and romanticism !! and gave jon a beard which is a felony..yk
n e ways i love showverse jonsa for what it is they’re sexi and their chemistry shook the foundations of this planet and i will always defend it to the haters. but when im posting jonsa know that im posting with their (superior) book versions in mind as god rr martin intended
we've been knew of course but this post made me think that show jonsa was like. a nod to the intended book jonsa. the same way Qyburn killing Pycelle and Kevan was a nod to Varys killing them in the books to further a more important plotline that was cut from the show.
hbo got fans are shipping sansa with jace and valarr because “they’re her type”
the scream I screamed at this lol

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who taught you that suffering in silence was noble, and how would you shutting up have benefited them?
this also counts for all those times you kept your mouth shut and didn't complain because you were being polite, and people would gladly have changed things if you had just asked. your suffering was not noble. you do not get a cookie for it, you do not get a tally mark next to your soul's score for grinning and bearing it. your suffering serves no purpose. break free of it. you deserve comfort.
istg if I learned anything by 32 its that being silent about your pain and chosing politeness over potential conflict never serves me any good. people just dont give a fuck. they don't know. and eventually they give me shit for being 'absent' or cold. when in reality I just keep my shit to myself and try my best not to make their lives worse
"winter kiss" by bubug (Magdalena Korzeniewska)
pt. I & pt. II on insta (@bubug_)