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if you spoke to lestat or louis about your pain, they would say, "your pain? what about MY pain?" but if you spoke about your pain to armand he would say "let me lobotomize you and you will never feel pain again." he has a solution-based mindset and we could all learn from him.
just saw this clip of stacy talking abt the scene of naim's frst encounter with the entity at hunter's funeral and explaining how the entity targets naim by mimicking ryan's lust bc it's whole design is to link desire with fear. though naim is crying and shaken it doesn't offer words of comfort, it pulls him in for a rough kiss and tries to arouse him--targeting naim's sexual desire specifically. only once naim responds, kissing back with fervour, does it become violent. because the entity's main goal is to link fear and desire in naim's mind. pavlovian conditioning: by associating arousal with violence and fear, any feelings of lust and desire will be avoided. that's why the church enacts the ritual. they don't want queer kids dead, they want them scared. the goal has always been conformity. we need fear. fear is how we survive.
but when naim's last act in the face of what could be his death is to reach up and gently cup the entity's face, it falters. because to the people who set this thing upon ryan and naim and hunter, love was never part of the equation. the church puts so much emphasis on lust and desire because that's all queerness is to these people--sexual immorality condemned by God. and that's why the entity, a tool used by religious folk to scare kids away from their queerness and force them to conform, ultimately fails to drive ryan and naim apart.
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im so obsessed with the idea that kaz just reads everything for wylan, but in such a natural way that everyone forgets that it's because wylan can't read, and kaz kind of forgets that everyone else can read
kaz bringing in the newspaper saying 'look at this', slamming the paper down on the table for for everyone to see and announces the headline 'pekka rollins shits himself in the harbour'. it's just instinctual to read it out, even though everyone else at the table can read what it says
kaz going to restaurants with the crows and handing wylan a menu saying 'they've got that herb chicken you like'. then he scans it again and points to a couple of things that he also knows wylan likes, and it's so causal and conversational and wylan doesn't feel scrutinised, or as though he's being looked after
(kaz also starts point out things the others like before remembering that they can read the menu and then just stops talking)
kaz and wylan going to coffee shops and kaz goes 'what do you think you're gonna get' before they get there so that wylan doesn't panic inside the shop. and he doesn't leave room for wyan to ask him to read things out, because kaz knows he hates doing that. so they go and kaz just says 'you want syrup in your coffee? they've got vanilla, caramel, or hazelnut'
and it's just so easy and instinctual. it makes wylan feel normal, because being read to isnt a big part of what's going on. kaz just manages to easily slip it into conversation without thinking, as though he does it with everyone
(now imagine wylan isn't there and kaz begrudgingly gets waffles with another member of the dregs (he's getting soft) and immediately goes 'what sort of syrup do you like? because they've got apple, strawberry or chocolate, but it does say you can get a mix' and the dreg is like 'i know? the menu is right in front of me?' and kaz just kind of realises that he doesn't even think about doing it anymore)
(also imagine him getting a letter and some of the higher ranked dregs need to know about it, and instead of just giving them it to read, kaz starts just reading it out, and all of the other dregs are like 'isn't it easier is we just read it ourselves?' and kaz just pauses and wonders when he actually started hanging out with wylan so much that he's the only person he knows how to talk to)
âď¸+ hello! i wanted to ask for recommendations and opinions on some gritty depressed vibe books for this upcoming winter season.. for those of us who are partial to patho and other such stories.. beautiful gloomy writing is also a slay<3 as is the Gays<3 maybe even other formats too, not just books âŚ.thank you! loved your new fic :-)
Hello! This is a brilliant question, thank you. Absolutely great question. I love this question.Â
[Cracks my cold fingers like a pianist] Here we go! MrCogitoâs winter doomer vibe cultivation list.
Iâve made another list in the past, on main, of literature that reminds me of David Lynch specifically (đ), and Iâm going to link back to that, because I do believe there is some significant overlap, as well as a specific shoutout to one very strange and compelling thing I read this year.
Here, I've included existential dread (horror-adjacent) and existential dread (sociopolitical).
Kazuo Ishiguro, Never Let Me Go and The Buried Giant.
Never Let Me Go: In some ways nobody does gritty depression like Ishiguro. The most obvious choice would probably be Never Let Me Go, which is excellent, and possibly one of the most depressing things Iâve read in my life (and I willingly read it twice). It ties very seamlessly with Pathologic through the underlying discussions of free-will, effects of war and industrialisation on society, othering, eugenics and community vs individualism. Itâs a wretched read, genuinely. But itâs been tremendously impactful to me.
The Buried Giant: this book is also gloomy and depressing, but in a much more whimsical way. And I mean whimsy in an eerie, uncanny, fluctuating fable sort of way, parallel to Pathologic from a different angle. Fundamentally, this is an anti-war narrative, but it plays with myth and legend (mainly arthurian legend), distorted memories, propaganda, symbolism and so on. I really loved it; only read it recently but will happily reread it.
Quote:Â
YĹko Ogawa , The Memory Police
If you like the Powers-that-Be noose-tightening desolation of Pathologic + as well as its more abstract forces such as the players in the sandbox moving puppets, and narratives within narratives, you might like this novel. Itâs very melancholy and poignant, and the authorâs use of magical realism is understated and integrated into the world it paints in a very compelling way. Iâve been thinking about this novel a lot since Iâve read it last summer. Some key words: community, invigilation, oppression, memory.Â
Quote:Â
Ursula K. Le Guin, The Left Hand of Darkness
I actually made this text post, as shown, 8 months ago, and it really resonated with way more people than I expected:
When you start TLHOD, it does not seem either gritty or depressed and more like a very sociopolitically relevant thriller dressed up in a science-fiction costume. That being said, I read the last 20 or so with tears streaming down my face. I donât really tend to sob as I read things, but god, this gets you. Itâs a beautiful story, itâs horribly depressing, and I still canât believe this was written in 1960s with how nuanced and insightful it is irt gender, gender roles and the entire political commentary surrounding the concept of âpatriotismâ and themes of Otherness and exile.Â
Quote (which made me feel choked up reading it, damn it):
Djuna Barnes, I Am Alien to Life + Nightwood
If youâre in the mood for a collection of poignant, haunting and deeply unnerving short stories, this is it. The stories are a good entry point, and theyâve very recently published in this collection; but if youâre curious, I do also recommend Barnesâs Nightwood, a Lynchian nightmare of a tormented lesbian modernist novel. It has ⌠a lot going on. T.S. Eliot of the Waste Land fame wrote a raving introduction for it. As most modernist writing, bear in mind thereâs a lot of tws for this, but even keeping that in mind, itâs one of the most interesting things Iâve ever read. Gender nonconformity (the character of the Doctor, in particular, stands out to me), desolation, toxicity, oppression, striking use of symbolism.
Quote:Â
James Baldwin, Giovanniâs Room + Another Country
Another favourite of mine. Few people on earth could write so beautifully about despair as Baldwin did. I love his writing. I think he was genuinely one of a kind and in many ways nothing compares. Giovanniâs Room is short, succinct, beautiful and horrible. Another Country is dynamic and sprawling, and entirely haunted. Baldwin is the sort of writer that just stays with you forever, so beware, but also, youâre welcome.Â
Joseph Broderick, The Pilgrimage
This is a recent discovery! If you enjoy the repressed-small-town aspect of Pathologic, this might be the thing. Broderick describes, with all the relish due to someone shunned by his own country, the small-mindedness and hypocrisy of a little Catholic Irish town, and everything that goes on underneath its surface. Itâs queer and repressed, and everything is toxic, awful and stifling. This was the tagline that enticed me to pick it up, and it did not disappoint:Â
The Empusium, Olga Tokarczuk
Again a favourite author, and this time Iâm going for thematic/atmospheric relevance to Pathologic. The Empusium is a strange novel, definitely less structurally ânormativeâ than, say, Drive Your Plow Over the Bones of the Dead or Flights (another favourite of mine): it meanders and at times seems to abandon the plot for the sake of its atmosphere (to match the narratorâs whimsical mind). And its eerie whimsy is really unique and delicious: you visit a German resort town by the border of Poland where the main character goes to convalesce from tuberculosis, circa 1913. And something odd is happening there. Again, themes of gender, gender nonconformity, Otherness, medical malpractice, folk horror. I read it in Polish (it was only translated very recently!) so I donât have a good quote on me, other than what I found online.Â
What sets this one apart is that itâs actually not gritty or depressing to read, in my opinion. But MieczysĹaw, our âfinal girlâ so to speak, is a delightful character and this story really goes well with Pathologic/Dankovsky, so I thought Iâd include it anyway.Â
Dostoyevski. Yeah.
This feels like stating the obvious, because of course Pathologic enjoyers would find something compelling in Dostoyevski. That being said, finally biting through Crime & Punishment really did enrich my experience of Patho, and it was indeed a miserable time start to finish, and well worth the read!
Honourable (unread) mention:
Iâm stuck reading Ulysses for the foreseeable future, but JosĂŠ Donosoâs The Obscene Bird of the Night is the next thing I want to get my hands on, and I believe it might just fit this list.
Blurb: This haunting jungle of a novel has been hailed as âa masterpieceâ by Luis BuĂąuel and âone of the great novels not only of Spanish America, but of our timeâ by Carlos Fuentes. The story of the last member of the aristocratic Azcoitia family, a monstrous mutation protected from the knowledge of his deformity by being surrounded with other freaks as companions, The Obscene Bird of Night is a triumph of imaginative, visionary writing. Its luxuriance, fecundity, horror, and energy will not soon fade from the readerâs mind.
Also: âIt would be a crass understatement to say that this book is a challenging read; it's totally and unapologetically psychotic. It's also insanely gothic, brilliantly engaging, exquisitely written, filthy, sick, terrifying, supremely perplexing, and somehow connives to make the brave reader feel like a tiny, sleeping gnat being sucked down a fabulously kaleidoscopic dream plughole.â
Film:Â
Iâm going to have to be very brief here, because we would be in this post for hours. That being said:Â
Stalker by Andrei Tarkovsky - this is the closest thing thematically and tonally to Pathologic that exists, imo. An adaptation of Strugatski brothers' Roadside Picnic, in addition to the tone, themes, setting, language (I can go on), also has a pretty visceral history: almost everyone who worked on this project, including Tarkovsky himself, died horribly after exposure to the toxic environment of the location they chose for the Zone.
Thereâs a lot to unpack here, but from the beginning, while watching, youâll be struck by how much the imagery of Pathologic is visibly influenced by Tarkovskyâs cinematography: a girl moves a glass with her eyes looking uncannily like Clara. Scientists idly roam a stark-looking laboratory. Rails lead us away from the City into wilderness.
TV:
The Terror: I do believe a lot of Patho enjoyers already know of The Terror but it truly IS thee gritty depressed show of all time. Underlying themes? Match. We have colonialism, polar exploration, the Other, 19th century, naval, haunting. It made me frantically drink orange juice for week after watching it because I was so afraid of magically acquiring scurvy.
Netflix Dark: There was a brief window of time when not everything Netflix produced was slop. Dark belongs to that era. Much like Pathologic is firmly steeped in Russian literature, theatre and culture, Dark is firmly steeped in German literary canon. Itâs a very intricately woven and executed narrative: as hard to believe as it is, all the increasingly convoluted plotlines are resolved logically. Itâs also unbelievably harrowing to watch, at times, taking the âdoomed worldâ to a new meaning. But if you enjoy a philosophical approach to time travel and morality of it, with a dash of nihilism, thatâs the place. Itâs one of my favourite shows, even if Iâve only been able to stomach watching it with someone else, but Iâm just really impressed with the storytelling.
ohh i'm daniel molloy. i sold millions of copies of my best-selling novel. i'm a beast at bowling. i've got the french bengali smokeshow pinned against the wall. man fuck you
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kaz being canonically the smartest person in ketterdam but his aliases being so on the nose (e.g. johannus rietveld = just a mashup of his family names, kroon = crown, brekker = the first word he saw on a random piece of machinery) kills me so here are random names i think his many bank accounts are under:
llewelyn llewelyn
baz krekker
crowley van cup
mark (just mark)
heleen van stupidpants
every innuendo ever
duke addam von silverhaunch (ripped off from smeetâs daughter)
benedik (matthiasâ middle name) treehugger
kanej ghafatvield
ioomen (the âiâ is silent)
on a similar note, need a fic where modern au kaz, criminal mastermind and barrel boss, sits at his desk, cracks his knuckles, and very seriously types ilovemagicandinej123 as the password to log into his computer
thereâs something so gutwrenching about the fact that the female characters in obsession have real dreams and wishes but never get the chance to see them realized, while both male characters waste their wishes on short-term selfish satisfaction. they were complex, free-spirited young women who just wanted to create art, and they were destroyed by a man determined to confine them to his superficial perception of them. nikki wanted to be a writer, sarah wanted to be a tattoo artist and now neither of them will get to be anything at all
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we talk a lot about how much of a revelation andrewâs confession is for neil, and not enough about how revelatory neilâs reaction is for andrew. because like. imagine you like this boy. but he doesnât swing. you know the answer would be âno,â so thereâs no point in even asking. then he goes and gets himself needlessly tortured for you, and tells you thereâs no amount of suffering he wouldnât endure for you. not because he thinks youâre weak, but because he thinks youâre worth protecting. he says things that you would interpret as advances if it were literally anyone else. you remind yourself that he doesnât swing. now youâre at edenâs and heâs asking about your feelings for him in 12 different ways. he really wants to know. so you tell him, in the most casual and crass way you can, thinking thatâll put an end to it. but unfathomably, it doesnât. he asks you why you didnât tell him. why would you have? it would have been a âno.â you say that, and instead of confirming it, he just echoes your words, clearly still reeling. you start to leave, and he tells you that he wants to keep playing your game. while the absence of a ânoâ is obviously not the same thing as a âyes,â youâve been operating for months and months under the assumption that the answer would be unequivocal. so you keep waiting for that answer, but it never comes. for the first time since you met him, you wonder if maybe itâs not a ânoâ after all. if maybe you could have this. you canât remember the last time you were able to have something you wanted. the world tilting on its axis, indeed.
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