Hello and welcome to this corner of contradictions! I am a proud Greek archeologist and singer who loves mythology and worldbuilding! This page will be dealing with various themes but mostly fanart related to the TV series, comic and manga such as W.I.T.C.H and OCs to them.
Some of my work includes creating music such as:
Ballard's Sad Flute
or singing:
Dilla's Songchord (Avatar AU)
Some of the fanfictions that I do write on this fandom do include the below works, mostly one-shots and analysis on the worldbuilding
Hidden Truth Prequel: The Peak of Madness -complete-
(Diego -OC- slowly loses his mind and agony while waiting for his brother Caleb to show signs of life. Believing he truly is abandoned by everything and everyone, Diego uses his magic to do the unforgivable; take Caleb's form and hold his brother prisoner!)
Uneasy Lies The Head -complete-
(Diego is tormented by his guilt for what he did. And so he dreams and his dreams are nightmarish; mix of memory and dream)
~~~
Aditionally this page is also on occasion dealing with Greek mythos and poetry, particularly the homeric epics (Iliad and Odyssey) and the characters involved at them (with some special emphasis on Odysseus and the people who got related with him)
Some of the stories:
Guilt:
(Odysseus is being guilt-stroke and horrified by the success of his plan to take Troy and by the Greek rage upon it and sinks to a series of thoughts and flashbacks) -complete-
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Survivor's Guilt and Survivor's Duty:
(Odysseus loses his last ship and last comrades at the sea, roams about for 9 days helpless and beaches at Ogygia where even more trauma awaits him) -complete-
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Gone with the Wind:
(Odysseus remains awake for 9 days guarding the sack given to them by Aeolus in order to reach his home faster. However soon he finds out that sleepless nights take a toll on him and the consequences are severe...) -complete-
Part 1
Part 2
The Death of Odysseus:
(The final moments of the king of Ithaca, based on the prophecy of Tiresias in the Odyssey. Odysseus has lived a long life and meets his end while finally meeting with an old friend...and his journey to the Underworld begins...) -complete-
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
(Extra): The Funeral
Ismarus! Ismarus!:
(Odysseus and his men leave from Troy but are devided from the rest of the fleets by a storm. They find themselves in Thrace to the city of Ismarus where Odysseus decides they should raid the land of Cicones) -complete-
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
The Witch's Lair:
(Odysseus's adventure in Aeaea and his bargain with the goddess-sorceress Circe)
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Sweet Dreams:
(Neoptolemus has built his empire, he is expanding his name and yet his guilty conscious won't let him rest. Plundered by horrific nightmares he desperately seeks help from the gods to release him from his torments)
Part 1
The Roar of a Dying Lion:
(Agamemnon returns home after 10 years of war having Cassandra with him. However his most desired homecoming is drenched in blood. At the other edge of the world his brother Menelaus receives the news)
Part 1
Great Sorrow:
(Menelaus is left lost and devastated after Helen left and practically an emotional wreck. He finally picks up his places and goes to his brother, the only person he can rely on) -complete-
Part 1
Part 2
Part 3
Part 4
Part 5
Part 6
Part 7
The Curse of Beauty:
(Helen travels to Cythera to pay her respects to Dione and Aphrodite where she fatally meets with the Trojan Prince Paris and everything in her life is about to change)
Part 1
~~~
Short Stories
If I never knew you
Odysseus Leaving Ithaca (random Pocahontas inspo)
Odysseus and Helen
Argos (analysis and tiny scene A Tribute to Argos)
Screams and Shadows in the Night (Odysseus and Nausicaa one-shot)
Philoctetes Inspiration (Odysseus and Diomedes one-shot)
Philoctetes Inspiration 2 (Odysseus, Diomedes Philoctetes and Neoptolemus one-shot)
Ruthless Justice (Odysseus and Telemachus one-shot)
The Will to Die The Need to Survive (Odysseus and Calypso one-shot)
Escape from Cyclops Island: Hubris
I Take that Back (Odysseus Menelaus and Diomedes one-shot)
The Why never asked and the Because that never mattered (Helen and Menelaus one-shot)
The Lament for a Life (Achilles and Antilochus short songfic)
It's you; always has been you! (Neoptolemous songfic)
What makes the Heart Beat (Achilles and Antilochus one-shot)
Pomegranate Spell (Patrochilles and Achillochus story)
Guard Dog (a Patroclus and his dogs one-shot)
Kynaeon Asma (Achilles and Antilochus one-shot)
Heart to Heart (Post-Aulis Odysseus Achilles and Menelaus one-shot)
Flower Stained with Blood (Neoptolemus one-shot)
Trauma of the Mind (Odysseus and Diomedes short story)
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The complaints I’m seeing for The Odyssey are ridiculous.
The complaints I’m seeing for The Odyssey are ridiculous.
The race of actors. Some of you are complaining because of black people in Ancient Greece. Did NONE of you watch Hercules: The Legendary Journeys or Xena: Warrior Princess gowing up? Tony Todd was captain of what was essentially the flying dutchman. And Helen of Troy was black. No one complained in the 90s. Most of the actors in Xena and Hercules were from New Zealand. Also saying “Homer wouldn’t approve of how she looks.” It’s widely believed that Homer was BLIND!
Another complaint is the use of casual, modern, American-style English. Again, did none of you grow up with Xena or Hercules? Those shows were improbably anachronistic.
There are people complaining about the film being based on the Emily Wilson translation because they call it “Woke.” Do explain why and how it’s woke. Scholars have said that her translation is the most accurate to the Greek to date, for surpassing the nineteenth century translations we grew up with and pretended slavery didn’t exist in Greece.
Then there’s the complaint about Elliot Page being in the movie. Yet again, did none of you grow up with Xena and Hercules? There were trans and gender non-conforming characters and actors. It was as blatant as you could get in the 90s and it was popular by people of all political backgrounds so why is this an issue for you now?
I am sorry but for Wilson scholars even critisize her for her dubious choices and no she is not accurate. She is accessible. Anyone with half a knowledge to homeric greek knows that not to be true. They say it is lively because she wrote in poetic prose (which was not even the original poetic prose and that shows also to the translation)
Two which translation pretended slavery didn't exist lol? Because Wilson said so? Because the translations I have seen (even if I am Greek so I am not really that much into English translations as English spoken people) have mentioned slavery in many parts of the Odyssey (where the text actually says that) for instance Telemachus speaking on "slaves his father won for him" among others. Yes no translation is perfect and of course there are questionable choices in many of them but anyone with half knowledge sees how inaccurate Wilson is or deliberately twisting the meanings of it so no she is not the most accurate to greek to this day lol. Far from it. And yes I read the original and yes people in Greece are actually still being taught the homeric poems like in middle school.
Also who told you that we didn't make fun of Xena or Hercules series when they were airing? Have you traveled about Greece people who watched the series on their TV only to make fun on the bizarre parts of them? Who told you that we didn't laugh our asses off at many of those or even at other cases of Hollywood before or after them? Who told you that we are not furious by every single twist of our culture including Nolan's movie but not only that?
There were iconic themes for instance in the series and such that kids at that time watched on TV but all of us who knew mythology laughed every time something bizarre appeared on screen. Not to mention also that these were series with a budget and means that do not even touch Nolan who also claims to be like the Epitome of "realism" which he is not on many levels. People judge Nolan based on our era the same way that they judged all the others before them based on that era.
You know what my pet peeve is? The idiotic and arrogant behavior of people online saying something confidently wrong- easily disproven- and saying "lol" or "lmfao" WHILE being confidentially wrong.
Last week someone did that to me on Facebook when they were absolutely sure Mina didn't exist in the Dracula novel, that she was invented to BE a love interest for him. They knew enough to know the novel wasn't actually a love story for Dracula but then assumed the rest.
And you have the audacity to say "which translation pretended slavery didn't exist lol"? Something so easily googled that your history teacher and world literature teacher would feel ashamed at you not even making the effort.
Robert Fagles: Widely praised for his readable style, he still translates many enslaved women as maids or attendants.
Robert Fitzgerald: His celebrated poetic translation frequently uses the term nurse instead of enslaved woman.
Alexander Pope: His 18th-century English version elevated the text to sound grand and heroic, scrubbing much of the raw, brutal power dynamic of the original.
Those were all men who removed or ignored the word slave whenever it suited them or entirely.
As for making fun of Hercules and Xena, I never said WE didn't make fun of them, just that we could enjoy them. See the "WE" there "adult."
I'm forty f--king four years old. And I have two honorary doctorates in literature. I know "Honorary" means very little but it's better than a condescending, and frankly, stupid "Dur, no one pretended slavery didn't exist. Durr. I'm gonna laugh instead of making sure I'm right. Duuur."
The fact that there are many ignorant people on the internet is a fact. That doesn't disprove also the valid concerns that people actually have about something and many of the people who critisize the movie (me included) are actual Greeks and they are also being shut down. True people with much less knowledge on the text will focus on the things that they can see for instance casting or aesthetics. People with more knowledge will delve even deeper to the actual issues of the text.
I believe you also see my peeve too. The criticism I see on a vast number of posts is actually perfectly valid. Do I still see some ridiculous takes among them? Absolutely. The same way that I see ridiculous claims of those who support it.
Again I am sorry but as I said I have seen some of the texts myself. I do not need any professor to point that out to me neither to my native tongue nor to English which might not be my native tongue but I gained certain level of fluency in it. I have yet to see a translation that denies that slavery existed in Greece or in Homer my friend. What I do see though is not an exclusive focus to it which up to one point is correct. The text of Homer does not spend its entirety to spell it out to us because it was simply there. To get out of one's way to focus on that in particular as noble as it is, is not the point of Homer. Homer presented it as something natural. Eumaeus, Philoetius, Melantho, Dolius etc we all know that they are slaves. Homer knows it. He mentions it but doesn't spend pages after pages to talk about that. And we do have some very good mentions on Dolius or Eumaeus on their background stories anyways and as I said I have seen other translators mention that. Wilson did not suddenly discover the wheel.
The term "maid" is a valid translation as a word for simply "woman of servitude". He doesn't deny slavery existing. He refers to the women as "women". Also the word "attendant" also exists in the text (for example the word ἀμφίπολος that Telemachus uses in rhapsody 1 actually is translated as "handmaiden" or "attendant" and not as slave) Feagles though is also not the most direct translation either. He is not sold for complete accuracy either. And yet he is more accurate to the text's spirit on many ways.
"nurse" is also a term used (μαια) in the actual text. So yet again it is another word used. Plus for Euryclea for example we already know she is a slave because the text itself tells us she is (bought by Laertes) which is translated by texts
I am not familiar with Pope to fully comment on his translation but the text of Homer is inherently positive in many parts. Of course there are the raw moments in it but the texts themselves are also grandiose in many portions of it.
With this logic Wilson has also twisted way too many things to count such as adding random words to make people believe her characterizations of Odysseus (for example the completely unbased addition of "lord of lies" in 9th rhapsody when she had already translated πολυμιτις to "wily") random translations that are inaccurate on plants and nature (see the plants at Calypso's isle) total omitting of several passages or twisting their meaning (Athena in the original says to Odysseus "you never stop your deceitful stories not even when a god stands before you" but she translates as "men and gods would have trouble with you" or something along the lines ) etc. We have others who are better at certain passages and others that are worse but do not think that alternative words pop out of nowhere
"Attendant" "woman" "maid" "nurse" etc actually appear at the original text as well. With your logic then Wilson is a woman that miacharizes any character she dislikes and constantly tries to persuade you that all the other "men translators" just had no other goal in their lives but misguide you which simply is not true. As I said there is no perfect translation but is far from what Wilson makes it seem like in her interviews. In fact on occasions she got critisized for her choices she referenced other "men translators" by saying "look what this person did in that passage" which is the very least indicative that no the translations of the past are not the monstrosities Wilson makes them sound like
And as I said I do read the original terms too so I compare then to those.
No offense but I am talking about us as children. Even 10 year Olds in Greece could see the twists of Greek culture back then and no offense from your comment right now I would encourage you to use these dictionaries a bit more carefully. It is great that you have them and good for you that you attempt to search more critically but again it is not true at least not to the totality of the writers and certainly that doesn't make Wilson some kind of illuminator to the stories of slavery just because she claims so.
As I said there are many weaknesses to translations I see then every day But Wilson is not better than any of them. Arguably it is worse than several. And that is an objective fact on several passages. Some are accurate for sure just it happens for many other translators in the past but several are objectively not only inaccurate but sometimes actually deliberately altered either to fit her ideas or to fit her metric system that is fit for English language but not homeric greek
Now whether someone likes her speech or finds it refreshing for light reading etc that is great the same way that someone might enjoy on Feagles or Fitzgerald. That doesn't mean that we shall not point out the weaknesses to it and Wilson has a lot. Some of them are not even weaknesses they are actually deliberate and her clear choices. Also as a Greek her intros make me just sad at how much of the Greek culture we do not seem to convey there.
Again I am not saying that the others are perfect but what I saw in her intro just made it hard for me to properly understand if we even read the same book. So far from "the closest to Greek translation" on any shape or form
The complaints I’m seeing for The Odyssey are ridiculous.
The complaints I’m seeing for The Odyssey are ridiculous.
The race of actors. Some of you are complaining because of black people in Ancient Greece. Did NONE of you watch Hercules: The Legendary Journeys or Xena: Warrior Princess gowing up? Tony Todd was captain of what was essentially the flying dutchman. And Helen of Troy was black. No one complained in the 90s. Most of the actors in Xena and Hercules were from New Zealand. Also saying “Homer wouldn’t approve of how she looks.” It’s widely believed that Homer was BLIND!
Another complaint is the use of casual, modern, American-style English. Again, did none of you grow up with Xena or Hercules? Those shows were improbably anachronistic.
There are people complaining about the film being based on the Emily Wilson translation because they call it “Woke.” Do explain why and how it’s woke. Scholars have said that her translation is the most accurate to the Greek to date, for surpassing the nineteenth century translations we grew up with and pretended slavery didn’t exist in Greece.
Then there’s the complaint about Elliot Page being in the movie. Yet again, did none of you grow up with Xena and Hercules? There were trans and gender non-conforming characters and actors. It was as blatant as you could get in the 90s and it was popular by people of all political backgrounds so why is this an issue for you now?
I am sorry but for Wilson scholars even critisize her for her dubious choices and no she is not accurate. She is accessible. Anyone with half a knowledge to homeric greek knows that not to be true. They say it is lively because she wrote in poetic prose (which was not even the original poetic prose and that shows also to the translation)
Two which translation pretended slavery didn't exist lol? Because Wilson said so? Because the translations I have seen (even if I am Greek so I am not really that much into English translations as English spoken people) have mentioned slavery in many parts of the Odyssey (where the text actually says that) for instance Telemachus speaking on "slaves his father won for him" among others. Yes no translation is perfect and of course there are questionable choices in many of them but anyone with half knowledge sees how inaccurate Wilson is or deliberately twisting the meanings of it so no she is not the most accurate to greek to this day lol. Far from it. And yes I read the original and yes people in Greece are actually still being taught the homeric poems like in middle school.
Also who told you that we didn't make fun of Xena or Hercules series when they were airing? Have you traveled about Greece people who watched the series on their TV only to make fun on the bizarre parts of them? Who told you that we didn't laugh our asses off at many of those or even at other cases of Hollywood before or after them? Who told you that we are not furious by every single twist of our culture including Nolan's movie but not only that?
There were iconic themes for instance in the series and such that kids at that time watched on TV but all of us who knew mythology laughed every time something bizarre appeared on screen. Not to mention also that these were series with a budget and means that do not even touch Nolan who also claims to be like the Epitome of "realism" which he is not on many levels. People judge Nolan based on our era the same way that they judged all the others before them based on that era.
Underrated and crazy mythology crack-ship (Helenilles)
On another take these two versions of the story exist;
Some say that after Achilles dreamt he had intercourse with Helen, he desired her sexually and having the dream stuck in his mind, he went to the walls and demanded Helen to be brought out so that he could see her. The Trojans got persuaded and brought her at the walls and when he saw her he was taken over by even more desire for her.
Some others say that when he saw her upon the walls for the first time he was taken over by passion for her and he demanded from his mother to help him so he could sleep with her. However she made a dream for him so it would feel like he had actually had intercourse with her and thus he was consoled.
On one hand created the image because of dream love and the other created the image by her beauty and this fired him up.
(Translation by me)
Ioannis Tzetzes in his Ad Lycophronem
Yes I know many people made commentary on this and honestly I am not expecting many people to see this but here are my two cents because I seriously find it fascinating to say the very least as an idea haha
For once I dunno which is funnier; Achilles actually be portrayed to have wet dreams or that he either literally comes to the enemy territory under the walls demanding for a woman arguably married to their freaking prince to come out so he could see her (or that it freaking WORKED?!) or that he literally sees her, THEN starts having some intense thoughts about her and asks his mother for goodness sakes to bring her to him! Or bring him to her!
And Thetis literally seeing that such thing might not happen (or did she really know or fear that Achilles would get badly rejected?! Haha) and literally indulging a dream to her son?! Honestly this story doesn't get enough love for what it is hahahahaha
For once it shows Achilles's personality and how he probably falls in love or desires people like a freaking lion in heat almost literally so! Or that he is arguably an eternal teenager (not to mention how the story about desire that takes over him in a second reminds me of Deidamia story among others)
Second of all is yet another underrated story that explores other aspects of Achilles's personality as impulsive (yes his sexuality too but honestly I am more interested at how he is actually working with his emotion more than what he works with his mind haha
Also to imagine Achilles being all distracted because he is always thinking of some woman he saw only once and then had wet dreams of is sooooo funny in my head!
Now which of the two seems more "realistic" from that point of view? Well the second one I would say. To see a dream of someone it means you have seen that someone so unless some god sent him the image of Helen, whom he hadn't seen before, to his mind, it makes more sense that Achilles got a glimpse of Helen first before actually dreaming about her. After that I am sure he had several wet dreams about her and to be fair is so funny to see Achilles approaching the walls with a giant white flag like
"Yeah I just wanna see her! Bring her out"
Hahahahaha and the Trojans actually do?! Paris is eating his hat behind for sure hahaha but there isn't much he can do about it haha (imagine if the Trojans thought that if Achilles demands her in return for finishing the war they would literally send her down for him hahaha). Maybe Menelaus is eating his own hat behind too!
What a mess!
Was Helen even given an explanation when she was led at the walls or she was just brought there and she looked down to see that tall blonde lovesick puppy underneath?! Hahahaha honestly I can imagine her reaction;
Or the fact that Thetis was like "man there is no way this would work! Aphrodite would make a huge mess afterwards, Helen probably would choose her husband over my son and he is already restless! What do I do? Oh I know!" and literally sends him the most vivid lucid dream hahahaha like she brings a new level to the term "overprotective mother" doesn't she? (Also Achilles sharing everything with his mama is always interesting and underrated subject!)
Patroclus probably heard Achilles make some interesting noises those nights, I must say! Hahahahaha
Tzetzes has some rather...well...interesting takes on myths haha and that was one of those he has written down as some explanation for Achilles being associated with Helen (even mentions Helen as "his wife in a dream") but man talk about some spicy origins of the "Once Upon a Dream" right?! Hahahahahahaha
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Ganymede is trying to kill me, and Achilles is trying to protect me... @katerinaaqu how dead/not dead am I? 😭. I feel like I wouldn't die... but I could be wrong.
Shoutout to Scilla Gabel (born Gianfranca Gabellini) as Helen of Sparta/Troy in the masterpiece of Franco Rossi "L'Odissea" (1968)
Not only she is such a stunningly beautiful woman 😍 but I also loved the way they added Egyptian-inspired makeup to her eyes, almost winking to their years in Egypt and this makeup brings out her amazing eyes 😲 👀 ❤️ ♥️ 💖 (again yes not blonde or other Helen but no one cares! She looks stunning 😍 the face that launched 1000 ships!) I also gotta talk about THIS shot with Telemachus!
I love the way she touches his face 😍 the way she observes him as she perceives his resemblance to his father is stunning! I also love the contrast of their skintones almost winking to the mycenean paintings (she is pale while he has more olive tan) but I also love how he is in the light and she is in the shadow. Somehow speaking on the way she feels guilty at that moment showing her amazing psychological world!
This Helen performance deserves more attention than what she gets! Because yes she doesn't wear her hair blonde or brownish but man those expressive dark eyes and that profile with the small chin! And the artistic choice to give her Egyptian-like eyeliner was so great to show her time in Egypt!
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Ganymede is trying to kill me, and Achilles is trying to protect me... @katerinaaqu how dead/not dead am I? 😭. I feel like I wouldn't die... but I could be wrong.
Ganymede is trying to kill me, and Achilles is trying to protect me... @katerinaaqu how dead/not dead am I? 😭. I feel like I wouldn't die... but I could be wrong.
You have inspired me so much!!!! I genuinely lock tf in and study/research the topic almost every time I see a post of yours (the informational ones of course) thank you so much for sharing your knowledge! I aspire to be on your level one day, as Greece and its history has always been super interesting to me :)
Sincerely, a geek of greek descent who knows nothing about Greece's history or mythology and is trying very hard to learn 😖💔
Awww 🥹🥹🥹🥹 what a thing to see today in the morning after such harsh shifts! 😳 gosh!
Oh trust me you don't dear hahaha I am sure there are many people who can get in a much better level than that! But just your sweet words are so great! 💞😳
I am sincerely honored that you say that! 🙏 of course I and many others will be here for whatever questions might pop up.
let me say, I am a believer in the fact Helen had children with Paris (or Alexander). And I believe it’s what made their love blossom more and why my girl stayed with him.
That being said, I their deaths is what shifted their romance. Her daughter’s death was the breaking point for Helen realizing she had no one else but the prince to love for. The prince who began to remind her less of the father of her now dead babies and more of the man who’s responsible for this war.
I think that’s when she finally came to terms about the consequences of their actions and how love has both blessed and destroyed them.
I am also a firm believer of that too. In fact I had made a post a while back and in it I am a strong believer that Helen was already pregnant with Paris's first child when she left Sparta which could also explain an actual decision for her to leave that also combines the sources of that sort;
💬 22 🔁 3 ❤️ 27 · Just a little something we were discussing with @aaronofithaca05 regarding Helen and Paris business and the way she ran a
A child not only would be a proof of her passion and something that Menelaus definitely WOULDN'T overlook not only it seems almost like a "proof" that gods "blessed their union" when she had only one child with Menelaus for years while in a little while she got a child with Paris (this is something I wanna include to my stories that I plan to write) but also it was something she genuinely loved. Then more children came. Sons no less. That would seem the ultimate "proof"
Paris is also loyal and passionate to her so that assisted her situation and the children became the glue that tied them together for so long plus the comfort of her life which allowed her to at least bear the sorrow and home-sickness among other. But then disaster strikes;
💬 6 🔁 1 ❤️ 6 · Helen before the ruins of her house that killed most of her children! 💔 · In later versions of the Trojan Cycle we learn t
All these beautiful children of hers all these little "blessings" of her life gone in one night under an earthquake no less (divine intervention in her eyes). Sorrow changed her. She channeled her love to her last daughter but now that baby girl reminds her of Sparta. The happy years she lived there, that baby girl she left behind... she changes day by day by her sorrow
Maybe Paris changes too by his own sorrow plus the social pressure that is stronger by the day that Trojans get lost out there. Paris maybe starts getting more anxious too. Maybe more demanding. Slowly and gradually the fatigue gets piled up and explodes more often
Then Paris dies. She mourns for him because that passion was part of her life for years. But I think she also mourns herself. All was for nothing. The man she gave up everything for is dead. She maybe blames him post-mortem maybe she is mourning herself too
Finally the final blow that even her baby daughter dies. She has lost everything. But thank goodness her husband loves her still. He takes her back and she realizes clearer than ever that he was the one for her all along. That he loved her so unconditionally to just take her back after ten years and after all that betrayal and she realized that he was the one she always loved and always would. 💔
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THREE_STOOGES_HERCULES_MC208_1961
Cover photo of Curly Joe DeRita, Samson Burke, Larry Fine and Moe Howard. Interior art by Sparky Moore.
https://flic.kr/p/2rZJXdt
Hello! I apologize if this has been asked before (I tried looking for it in your blog but I couldn’t find it) but what is your opinion of the theory of Penelope’s ‘early recognition’ of Odysseus?
Haha no it was never asked like that again and quite frankly I often answer similar asks from time to time so please do not apologize.
No let's see...I believe that you are mentioning the moments in 19th rhapsody where Penelope speaks with Odysseus-beggar and whether she truly recognized him or not or at least suspect him as to why.
Well it is an intriguing question which I doubt it can ever be fully answered because it depends on the perspective someone has on this moment. It is never fully said so at the text for instance it was never said that Penelope recognized Odysseus as her husband but if I may the whole scene in my opinion is not just some random scene but a whole preparation for the actual official recognition
So here goes a small series of thoughts and forgive me if that gets too long.
And by the way thank you so much because for a long time I wanted to write a mini-analysis about this so this is the perfect opportunity!;
The Odyssey Recognition Ritual
In one way we know that the official recognition indeed happens to the final section of Mnesterophony (The Murder of the Suitors) when the two spouses do present each other to one another and offer the final recognition signs for it. However as it happens the one thing that is common in Homer is foreshadowing. In a way a warm-up if you will that sets the reader or listener on the path of the final climax
I think it is not random that the whole conversation happens between Penelope and Odysseus and I think, in a way we see both trying to recognize each other.
Odysseus is specifically instructed or rather guided by Athena not to reveal himself to anyone just yet. In a way that serves both as a plot device but is also Odysseus trying to lift every doubt in his head for any person in his household (part of it or not)
However, if I may, when he sees Penelope and talks to her he seems to be already throwing crumbs at her. Penelope addresses him with respect as a guest of hers. She then asks him the typical questions of Xenia such as who he is and where he comes from. After Odysseus offers a long introduction praising her he then ends up with this;
τῶ ἐμέ νῦν τά μέν ἄλλα μετάλλα σῷ ἐνί οἴκῳ,
μηδ᾽ ἐμόν ἐξερέεινε γένος καί πατρίδα γαῖαν,
μή μοι μᾶλλον θυμόν ἐνιπλήσῃς ὀδυνάων
μνησαμένῳ· μάλα δ᾽ εἰμί πολύστονος· οὐδέ τί με χρή οἴκῳ ἐν ἀλλοτρίῳ γοόωντά τε μυρόμενόν τε
ἧσθαι, ἐπεί κάκιον πενθήμεναι ἄκριτον αἰεί·
μή τίς μοι δμῳῶν νεμεσήσεται, ἠέ σύ γ᾽ αὐτή,
φῇ δέ δακρυπλώειν βεβαρηότα με φρένας οἴνῳ
However now you can ask me for anything else, you are in your own home after all, but do not ask to hear of my lineage or my homeland so that my mind will not be sunken in all the painful memories, for I am truly a man of much torment and it is not appropriate for me to cry and mourn in someone else's home for it is always bad to wail uncontrollably and I am worried your slaves and you yourself will hate me and say that I am all tearful because my mind is heavy with wine
(Translation by me)
Now why would Odysseus say that? Could it be because he is also concerned that he will not be able to make a believable lie to his wife about his supposed homeland? That he doesn't wish to lie to his wife at all? Or is he possibly hinting the true pain of his heart is exactly that; that he IS in his own home, that all the painful memories are so strong to bring him to the verge of tears EXACTLY because he is a stranger in his own home. Even the fact that he characterizes himself with an epithet "of many torments" (πολύστονος) which is more or less descriptive on how he is being called by others during his stay (unknown to them that he is there with them) because most people regard Odysseus as an unlucky and unhappy man for all that has befallen him during his long stay.
He then seems to take it back by speaking on others and Penelope herself will think he got drunk and so he would be wailing in too much pain because his mind is swayed by the wine. However interestingly he also hints that his emotions would be THAT strong. Who else but someone who has so much more to bear would he be hinting such a thing?
I think in a way Penelope gets it or rather she feels something with that declaration that she gets intrigued. She knows her husband. She knows his deep love for his homeland. The way this "stranger" is speaking is very characteristic of what Odysseus himself might as well have said in a situation like this.
Of course it makes no sense to her just yet as to why would Odysseus even be a beggar in his own home? Why not reveal himself? Above all why would a beggar who was already humiliated enough to beg for scraps of food suddenly be too embarrassed to speak of his past to others so that he will not cry? At best it seems a bit fishy. It might as well intrigue her interest as to why and who that person truly is.
So she decides to engage the conversation. For once she is lonely, she was surrounded by so many people that wish to force her to marry as well as that her life is of course so difficult from her longing for her husband and wondering if he truly lives or if he is dead. She needs to speak to someone for sure so her sorrow makes her start talking
But at the same time when you start talking yourself you wanna make the other party to talk too. So Penelope exposes her own pain and sorrow. She starts saying that her beauty and youth have all vanished because of her years of longing for her husband. She opens up about the trick she did to the suitors to stall them. But one should wonder was it JUST her sorrow speaking up or was she throwing some crumb back too?
Penelope essentially tells to that beggar how her first instinct was to stall the upcoming marriage with one of the suitors; a crazy plan no doubt for a man that was considered dead for most and if one needs to be accurate about it, the marriage itself could be beneficial for the kingdom objectively speaking. Why does Penelope entrust such an important piece of information to the first stranger she saw in a while? Sure she says that after all these years she doesn't see differences between beggars and strangers etc as long as she can get some answers and of course one must never ignore that any person can be eager to talk about their troubles to the first person eager to hear but at the same time though she seems to clearly wink that
"I remained loyal. I remained steadfast. I preferred to risk my integrity in the eyes of all these men rather than take back my promise to my husband!"
Now that is interesting thing to say. She seems to speak with pride within her sorrow about an act that most people at her time would consider crazy or de facto bad idea. Everyone expected her to remarry so why would she be so happy to tell that to that stranger?
So after all this long introduction, the emotional exposure of her inner world; her sadness and fears even the worry that even her son wishes her to remarry at that moment and escape that misery of their home and the doubts once and for all and set the ghosts to rest and after she has given a very long and detailed account of her loyalty to her husband, as if she expected the stranger before her (who as I said seemed suspiciously familiar in the way he speaks) to be lulled by her words she ends up her monolog with this;
ἀλλά καί ὥς μοι εἰπέ τεόν γένος, ὁππόθεν ἐσσί· οὐ γάρ ἀπό δρυός ἐσσι παλαιφάτου οὐδ᾽ ἀπό πέτρης
But even so, tell me what is your bloodline and from which place you come from. No one just pops out of an oak or out of a stone
(Translation by me)
Seems interesting to say the very least how she finishes her monolog after also expressing her sorrow for her son Telemachus or how he is now grown up and he can take over his own house and then she literally goes on with "enough with me. Please share your story"
!!
Like it was a rather smooth and "clumsy" connection at the same time! For she did add that after mentioning stories about one's household and all, requesting someone else to do the same but wow what a random transition isn't it? Unless it is more strategic than it seems and it might as well be. Penelope caught the crumbs Odysseus threw at her and she decided to follow them and see where they lead. So she literally insists! She insists upon this stranger to speak. Like "come on don't be shy. Show me your own papers at hand".
Odysseus catches that because he also responds with a hint of his own. His new addressing to her!
ὦ γύναι αἰδοίη Λαερτιάδεω Ὀδυσῆος
Oh, renounced wife of Odysseus son of Laertes
(Translation by me)
Like...let's consider this for one second shall we? Surely it could be as simple as Odysseus just addressing a woman with the traditional way aka as someone's daughter or someone's wife but ironically at first he addressed her as;
ὦ γύναι
Oh, woman (here also; my lady)
(Translation by me)
Like...before he addressed her simply as woman or lady. NOW he addresses her as "wife of Odysseus". Like...you know? The guy that was supposed to be dead or presumed dead anyways? The guy that no one ever saw for at least one decade ever since the ending of the war?
Odysseus of course could be also faking familiarity aka that through the conversation he supposedly became more intimate with his hostess so now he addresses her more directly than the plain term "my lady" but to do that after everything else?
Doesn't it seem like Odysseus is almost indirectly telling her "I am here now"?!
And also because of Penelope insisting and not letting him go that easily with his denial to speak due to fear for the intense emotions of his memories, he is now forced to cook up another story. He has to make sure that his story is believable and that is what he does. Ironically by keeping throwing crumbs like he did before. He now tells his tale of fall by using different locations and different names but overall using the main skeleton of his own painful journey.
But first and foremost; he says how he took care of Odysseus in Crete, how Odysseus turned from Cape Maleas on his way to Troy. That was literally the cape that Odysseus missed because of the storm and couldn't make the turn for Ithaca and had to go down to the land of Lotus Eaters in north Africa. But it is also the place where Odysseus probably had turned from in the past on his way for Troy just as Odysseus says now. Ironically he also mentions that Odysseus was delayed "in his home" because they waited for 13 days before the winds stopped howling and then he could leave (now interestingly this could hint both to the leaving from Troy but also the delay in places like Aulis, if we assume that Homer was hinting that) either way both of these seem to be used as crumbs of the actual story that Odysseus went through
As expected, Penelope took the bait and threw one of her own. She tries to test if the man is telling the truth or not so she asks him to have some sort of proof especially how Odysseus seems to go on and on with his story that seems elaborate enough so Penelope must make sure that he is telling the truth but also consequently she still needs to know.
So what does Odysseus do? He describes his clothes that she had folded in for him plus his herald, Eurybates!
Honestly that is a big give away and that is not only because of the obvious details that he gives about the outfit even if that was supposed to be 20 years ago but please come to consider this possibility;
Odysseus describes others because seriously who truly is familiar to such extent with their own reflection?
We speak on the bronze age now. The greatest idea people had on mirrors was a polished piece of bronze, water etc. We do not have yet clear mirrors from glass that can give you absolutely detailed image of someone's look. Odysseus deliberately chose to describe another person (someone that seemingly shared several similarities with Odysseus himself) and an outfit. He is not just randomly picking stuff. For once he picks the things he truly has seen with his own two eyes whilst his reflection and detailed appearance would be done as descriptions of what others saw and that would betray him because he would have to parrot other people's words and some might not have been the things Penelope remembered or knew (what other people describe might not be what Penelope herself described when she saw him plus if he parroted Penelope's words she would know he is lying)
On the other hand he doesn't wanna stop his own game of recognition with her so by describing a detailed outfit that Penelope herself had made and folded for him, he is again hinting her that he is there! That he is looking at her right there and then. Without being obvious though. He doesn't wanna betray his secret but at the same time he wants to give hope to Penelope who was crying before. At the same time he is still testing her like she tested him
Because when Penelope asked for proof she wanted to make sure that he wasn't lying that he saw her husband but at the same time if something was nagging inside her about that man, she wanted to make sure and so she set a trap in one way on whether or not he would trip on his words
Odysseus dodged her trap by avoiding describing himself but he described an outfit instead. Giving away both the essence of his identity and verifying his story without telling who he is.
He also wishes to distract Penelope from inquiring further from him in regards to the identity of Odysseus he supposedly met so that he will not have to make up more stuff to keep dodging her questions.
This has a small effect for one can say it distracts Penelope a bit and she is delighted that this man truly saw her husband and forgot that Odysseus dodged the subject by not making a full description of how Odysseus looked like when he supposedly met him. She is delighted but also sad so now Odysseus decides to drop another trap on top of the one she set on him. He more or less knows that she is totally loyal as she says (no rather he is almost 100% sure at that stage) but he wants to be certain of everything and at the same time prepare the ground. If Penelope truly wants him back and she truly was enduring for him all these years then he should do that to confirm.
And so he tells her how he supposedly heard from the land of the Thesprotians that Odysseus is alive. That he lost all his men but that he is coming back to reclaim his house. Now Odysseus enters the realms of truth. That yes he IS alive and yes he DID come to claim his throne but he is not there yet.
In my head the revelation has two possible outcomes; console Penelope if she is true, or cause her panic if she lied. And Penelope responds!
αἲ γάρ τοῦτο, ξεῖνε, ἔπος τετελεσμένον εἴη· τῷ κε τάχα γνοίης φιλότητά τε πολλά τε δῶρα ἐξ ἐμεῦ, ὡς ἄν τίς σε συναντόμενος μακαρίζοι. ἀλλά μοι ὧδ᾽ ἀνά θυμόν ὀΐεται, ὡς ἔσεταί περ· οὔτ᾽ Ὀδυσεύς ἔτι οἶκον ἐλεύσεται, οὔτε σύ πομπῆς τεύξῃ, ἐπεί οὐ τοῖοι σημάντορές εἰσ᾽ ἐνί οἴκῳ οἷος Ὀδυσσεύς ἔσκε μετ᾽ ἀνδράσιν, εἴ ποτ᾽ ἔην γε, ξείνους αἰδοίους ἀποπεμπέμεν ἠδέ δέχεσθαι.
If only, stranger, what you said comes true. If yes, then you would have all my love and you would receive many gifts of such kind that anyone that might encounter you might deem you so lucky. However my heart tells me otherwise; neither will Odysseus return nor will you be sent away properly because in this house there are no longer hosts like Odysseus who knew how to both accept and see guests off as it is appropriate
(Translation by me)
Essentially Penelope does not allow herself to hope. Maybe is also the reason why in the final recognition scene after she falls in the arms of her husband she excuses herself for being so cautious because she has in mind that some deity or other wishes to play with her and deceive her so that she will be unfaithful. She now seems to double-think that even if she did suspect something, it is too good to be true. That all this game of breadcrumbs and constant hints was either in her head because of her expectations or someone wishes to play a nasty game with her.
She doesn't want to dismiss this man she has before her now because one part of hers tells her that she can trust him but the other part of hers seems to be contradicting that especially with all the crumbs that he has sent her or the hints she sent and got answered. So she calls Euryclea to wash his feet
Interesting though isn't it? Why Euryclea? Why not her other maids? Why specifically the arguably only woman that theoretically knows her husband better than what she does because she literally breastfed him as a baby?
Did she expect to extract more answers that maybe only Euryclea would give her? Did she think that bring another person who knew her husband so intimately might as well double-confirm that nagging feeling inside her that there was something familiar with that stranger?
If you think about it that description she gives of Euryclea is not a coincidence in my mind;
ἔστι δέ μοι γρηῢς πυκινὰ φρεσὶ μήδε᾽ ἔχουσα,
ἣ κεῖνον δύστηνον ἐῢ τρέφεν ἠδ᾽ ἀτίταλλε
δεξαμένη χείρεσσ᾽, ὅτε μιν πρῶτον τέκε μήτηρ,
ἥ σε πόδας νίψει, ὀλιγηπελέουσά περ ἔμπης
I have here one old woman who is really smart and wise in council
someone that nursed and raised that poor man
accepting him in her arms right after his mother gave birth to him
this woman will wash your feet, even if she has little strength left
(Translation by me)
Man did Odysseus break a sweat now or what? Hahaha
I am sure he did because even if he did hope that he managed to distract Penelope (and that was a big if already), he knew there was little to no chance he would do that to Euryclea, the woman that was literally his second mother. The motherly instinct was strong with her even if she didn't birth him herself. He knew then that maybe just maybe, Penelope was on his tail or that her intuition was telling her so even if she herself was not totally there yet. I am almost sure that this was a test and both Penelope and Odysseus knew it.
This is further supported by the fact that Penelope once more comments on the way Odysseus/beggar speaks and how knowledgeable or lordly he appears so what does she do? She sends him a woman that raised a lord. What is more she states that Euryclea is old and weak and feeble and yet she sends her anyways! That is not a coincidence. Not to mention the emphasis on how long she knew Odysseus (aka literally his whole life!)
And man he was right to be worried! At first Euryclea seems to think the reason the old her is sent to Odysseus is because the other servants of Penelope are too high and mighty to touch him and that they should be ashamed for it and she sympathizes with him and how he fell from grace and how nobody who honors the gods deserves it and then she drops the bomb! First she says how she is willing to do it for him and she doesn't do it just because Penelope ordered her but then she says what Odysseus feared would happen;
ἀλλ᾽ ἄγε νῦν ξυνίει ἔπος, ὅττι κεν εἴπω· πολλοί δή ξεῖνοι ταλαπείριοι ἐνθάδ᾽ ἵκοντο, ἀλλ᾽ οὔ πώ τινά φημι ἐοικότα ὧδε ἰδέσθαι ὡς σύ δέμας φωνήν τε πόδας τ᾽ Ὀδυσῆϊ ἔοικας.
But listen now to my words, stranger, and what I have to say; many strangers beaten by fate had come to this house but no one ever looked so much like Odysseus in his voice, his form or even his feet like you do!
(Translation by me)
Mind you Euryclea has not yet seen his scar! She barely knelt down before him and she already noticed his body type, his feet shape and heard his voice even if he is transformed! She literally is a mother recognizing her child right there! I know Odysseus must have had a mini-heart attack then because he rushed to cover this by saying;
ὦ γρηῦ, οὕτω φασίν ὅσοι ἴδον ὀφθαλμοῖσιν ἡμέας ἀμφοτέρους, μάλα εἰκέλω ἀλλήλοιϊν ἔμμεναι, ὡς σύ περ αὐτή ἐπιφρονέουσ᾽ ἀγορεύεις.
Old woman, indeed others have said that too that laid eyes upon us that we are indeed very much similar like you have just now confessed yourself
(Translation by me)
Odysseus never before during his fake story with Penelope did he mention that he was "similar to Odysseus" and if I may say it was a rather clumsy cover up compared to the skillful speech he had given to Penelope before. Obviously he had to avoid that excuse because the last thing he wanted was Penelope to focus on him and notice the similarities (we have also to say again that Odysseus hardly could be aware of his looks at that stage. He doesn't know how much Athena changed him and whether he looks similar to his normal self but aged up or not.)
The only thing he can tell is that his scars and general essence of physique are left untouched but indeed he couldn't fully tell how much he changed or not so not only did he want Penelope to notice any similarities that might still be there but also he had no way of knowing that his current appearance bore similarities to his real form so by exposing some wrong piece of information would make his entire story collapse.
And Penelope seemed to suspect or question rather than realizing
But Euryclea now straight out spells it out that he looks similar! She even confirms that to the moment after she touched his scar
ἦ μάλ᾽ Ὀδυσσεύς ἐσσι, φίλον τέκος· οὐδέ σ᾽ ἐγώ γε πρίν ἔγνων, πρίν πάντα ἄνακτ᾽ ἐμόν ἀμφαφάασθαι.
Oh gods, it is you, Odysseus, my beloved child! I knew it was you from the very beginning! Even before I touched my king!
(Translation by me)
Of course that confirmation was not even needed at that stage but it simply spells out how much aware Euryclea was from the very beginning! And Odysseus realized that.
That means that he must cover that up now otherwise he would be betrayed. So he randomly makes that up to cover any sort of questions but as I said seems rather fast or clumsy and rather last minute excuse if you ask me. And maybe Odysseus knew it and that is why he was on guard and reacted fast when Euryclea was ready to yelp he grabbed her and gagged her immediately because he knew that game was over with Euryclea and all he could do was to make sure she wouldn't speak and even had to threaten her for it in his own panic essentially as well as his distrust of everyone at that specific moment.
But that also means that he also dodged a potential "trap" that Penelope sent him because now he made Euryclea realize beyond any doubt that absolutely under no circumstances was she allowed to talk and inform Penelope so in a way he was safe.
The last stage was again that Odysseus tried to once more reassure Penelope by essentially interpreting her dream that Odysseus were to return and that he essentially would clear this place. Penelope also knows she cannot stall so she also drops her final bomb; the impossible challenge that only Odysseus was known to have fulfilled.
Conclusions
Sorry for the very long reply and I hope you are still with me. Now how do I feel about thinking Penelope recognized Odysseus. I don't think she truly truly did but all her braincells could recognize a pattern. It was enough to cause her more than just suspicion but she was not fully sure yet.
Maybe part of her as she said later was thinking it was some god or goddess or something that was playing tricks with her. Or maybe that was her fear that prevented her from completely accepting what her instincts and intuition were telling her was right all along
But I think Odysseus made enough points to make sure that Penelope suspected and Penelope threw enough hints back to de facto confirm that she did suspect at least
So yeah I wouldn't say she fully recognized him because of her overthinking and all but she definitely began suspecting from the very beginning Odysseus began to speak and throwing her hints.
I am very proud of this hehe so I am reblogging it again till it gets seen hehehe ;P Also once again thank you @tismemaia for the chance to answer this!