The main reason pro-gun people and anti-gun people canât talk to each other is that their respective rhetorics are based on two irreconcilable worldviews. The anti-gun people are essentially collectivist; the pro-gun people are essentially individualist.
Lately, for example, Iâve been hearing arguments from the anti-gun people about how âarming teachersâ is a bad idea. The image theyâre evoking with this language is that of a group of teachers lining up to receive their mandatory government-issued firearm for use in defending their classrooms. Most proposals Iâve seen, however, arenât for arming teachers en masse. They are for allowing individual teachers who are already permitted to carry guns to do so on school property. The anti-gun people use collectivist language about âarmingâ a group of people, while the pro-gun people use individualist language about allowing individuals to make a choice about whether to carry a gun.
Similarly, anti-gun people often say things like âMore guns are not the solution.â The image they are evoking is that of a basically homogeneous group of people, some percentage of which are causing problems for the group with their guns. To the collectivist mind, the proposed solutionâincreasing the percentage of gun ownership within the groupâis absurd. But of course arbitrarily increasing the percentage of guns is not a solution anyone is proposing. The solution the pro-gun people are proposing is to remove limitations on the law-abiding members of the group that put them at a disadvantage when dealing with the non-law abiding members.
I often see anti-gun people make statements like âChildren dying isnât worth your right to have an AR-15.â To a collectivist, this statement makes perfect sense: after all, thereâs no doubt that as a group, weâd be better off if there were no AR-15s. To an individualist, though, this statement is at best nonsensical and at worst insulting. To an individualist, the statement translates to âYou personally having an AR-15 increases the chances of children dying.â And it doesnât help when the anti-gun people go the next logical step and call NRA members âmurderersâ for something that none of their individual members have done.
This is also how collectivists are able to justify a ban on guns which would have to enforced by people with guns. To the collectivist, âpoliceâ are a different group than âcivilians,â and itâs assumed that when you are talking about gun regulations, you are talking about regulations for civilians. For individualists, this distinction reeks of hypocrisy, because they see both the police and civilians as individual members of society, to whom the same laws should apply.
The problem of incompatible worldviews is complicated by the fact that in America, overt collectivism is still frowned on to some degree. Americans of all political stripes like to think we are proponents of individual freedom. Many collectivists in the U.S. are so inculcated in individualist language that they donât even know they are collectivists (these are the people who resort to supporting their arguments with vague pronouncements about âthe greater good,â âsocial welfare,â âthe social contract,â etc.) Thus, collectivists tend (intentionally or unintentionally) to cloak their language in individualist rhetoric about ârights.â For example, âDoesnât my child have a right to go to school without being shot?â
The problem with this question is that while itâs ostensibly about individual rights, itâs really a way of surreptitiously shifting the conversation onto collectivist grounds. Itâs a way of saying that my fear (rational or not) outweighs your so-called rights. And once you accept that premise, youâre stuck in the collectivist mindset. Individual rights are now just an obstacle in the way of creating a perfectly just, peaceful society where no one is ever shot (or harmed in any other way, presumably).
Youâve probably figured out by now which of these two camps Iâm in. I donât pretend to be objective, but I have some pretty good reasons for preferring the individualist mindset to the collectivist. For one thing, as Iâve already mentioned, itâs telling that the collectivists have to employ misdirection and rhetoric borrowed from individualism in order to make their point. Most Americans still know on some level that the greatness of our country was its emphasis on individual rights over collective concerns, so the collectivists have to rely on deception to win them over.
Secondly, in my experience individualists have a pretty good understanding of the collectivist worldview. It isnât difficult for most pro-gun people to perform a convincing imitation of the anti-gun argument. Anti-gun people, on the other hand, seem genuinely incapable of understanding pro-gun arguments, and end up arguing against strawmen tainted by their own collectivist ideology. This leads me to believe that collectivism is an intellectual crutch for those who canât make sense of individualism.
But the main problem with collectivism as it relates to gun control and any other problem is that in the end, people *are* individuals. If you break a gun law, you, an individual, go to prison. If a burglar breaks into your house, you, an individual, are victimized. If you shoot a person, you, an individual, are responsible. You can talk about âsocietyâ having a problem with âgun violence,â but in the end what you are talking about is some individuals being hurt by other individuals with guns.
Collectivist language can be useful, but the collectivist worldview is at best an approximation and at worst a crutch for bigots and the intellectually lazy. Laws are applied to individual people, and I believe they should be passed with that in mind. You donât have to believe that, but if you are in favor of gun control, you should at least make an effort to understand why many people do.
Amazingly well-said
Fucking hell, look at this post. This is a damn good post.Â
Always reblog
This doesnât really take into account that many pro-gun advocates misinterpret the goal of gun control advocates. â Letâs take all the guns!â Is what they hear, instead of â reglualte guns the in the way of vehicles. Licensing and restrictions.â This doesnt limit individual freedoms any more than driverâs licenses do.
And as far as the âarming teachersâ argument, it seems like pro-gun camp is supporting vigilantism.
âThis doesnât really take into account that many pro-gun advocates misinterpret the goal of gun control advocates. â Letâs take all the guns!â Is what they hear, instead of â reglualte guns the in the way of vehicles. Licensing and restrictions.â This doesnt limit individual freedoms any more than driverâs licenses do.â
Thereâs that collectivism that OP was talking about. You are ignoring the fact that many gun control advocates have already arrived at the âbanning gunsâ conversation, because everyone will have their own idea about what gun control entails.
âAnd as far as the âarming teachersâ argument, it seems like pro-gun camp is supporting vigilantism.â
Vigilantism? I think you misunderstand what that word means - It refers to people carrying out law enforcement without legal authority, often to avenge a crime. And this is the misunderstanding of the argument that OP also mentioned.
As OP already pointed out, this argument is talking about giving teachers who already have permits to carry guns the option to do so on school grounds legally, as an added layer of security to a school. They would not be out to get anyone, they would simply be prepared if an incident occurred.Â
>This doesnât really take into account that many pro-gun advocates misinterpret the goal of gun control advocates. â Letâs take all the guns!â Is what they hear, instead of â reglualte guns the in the way of vehicles. Licensing and restrictions.â This doesnt limit individual freedoms any more than driverâs licenses do.
And then pro-gun folks ask what regulations and restrictions would prevent X tragedies, specifically, and, strangely enough, the answer always seems to come back to some variant on âban gunsâ. It may be some guns, it may be all guns, they may dress it up fancy, like ârestrict military-grade assault weapon riflesâ, but lift the skirt* and itâs the usual underneath.
Itâs kinda hard to claim the people who are explicitly attacking the publicâs âright to own gunsâ** are not, in fact, attacking the right to own guns.
* The skirt, in this metaphor, belongs to a table.
** And placing it in opposition to âchildrenâs right not to be murderedâ.

















