INTO THE SWAMP

When did you feel like you could sing professionally?

That's a really funny question, because I was watching this Soul Train interview with Stevie Wonder and they asked him 'when did you realize you could sing?' He was like, "I'm still waiting," something like that. And I think watching that, and seeing someone like him say that it kind of made me understand more about my relationship with my voice. I think you know you can sing in tune and in key, but I think you're always waiting for that moment where you're like, okay, like I'm a great singer. Sometimes, being in that moment means that you just get better and better, because you don't think you will complete all the colors in your vocal range. So I guess, in a way, you still work towards it.

You mentioned that you've done a lot of mood boards and I'm guessing some of that goes towards you directing your own videos. What made you want to direct?

For me it was understanding my relationship to a lot of imagery of women that I had taken when I was growing up, realising how much of that was made by men - which is fine, but how much of that was certainly balanced out by women showing themselves as who they are and telling their stories. For me, it was just really important to be able to bring myself as an artist, because your mind is like... There's certain things like you go to the gym for seven weeks because of your music video. Directing myself. I was like 'I can get up as I am right now and I can make a music video and that's fine'. For me, it was kind of understanding myself more and telling my story more and framing myself as a woman. I think all people should be able to do that in some capacity.

Do you see yourself directing a film one day?

I dunno - I think I would make one. I think I'd probably have one thing I'd want to make and that would be it but... I don't know, actually because that's a real... I didn't know if I could communicate throughout like a whole film the way that I can communicate like three minutes by singing. It's one of the things that I want to do, but we'll see.

About communicating something in three minutes: can you tell the story behind making ‘Close To You (Moonlighting)'?

That was really communicating something in three minutes, because I was really... I was furious. I was in a session and I like to do this thing when I keep writing the same way, I just feel like so relaxed - so, the writer I was working with, I just kept saying to play these 1950s chords, just keep changing it every few minutes so that I have to keep adapting to it. And then, he's like playing that - there's a demo version where I'm really badly singing the lyrics as I was writing them. So that was, like, very visceral. I was really furious, and sometimes the song writes itself because it's just kind of like something you have to say. And then I kind of took it away, and I went to build it like a 50s song but bringing in more contemporary elements.

When was the first time you really felt your music was resonating with people?

After a show, this guy came up to me and he was like, 'your set made me want to call up every single girl I ever dated and say sorry'. And I was like, [chuckles] "I hope you do that for real." I think it's easy for people who have been through something I'm singing about and relate to it, but then for someone else to be able to listen to it and see themselves in the other person and be like 'woah!', that's quite special.

As the music resonates with more and more people, have you been able to pinpoint who a regular fan of your music would be?

Someone that really feels. Someone who... [pause, thinks] Someone like me, I think.

You’ve been involved in fashion, with Marques’Almeida using your music for their runway shows. Has your approach to everyday style changed as a result of being so close to the fashion world?

So I wanted to be a stylist before I wanted to be a singer, it's always been really embedded in my life, and all my friends went to Central Saint Martins while I was doing music. So it's kind of something that really has kind of, like, always been there and I've always discovered music and fashion kind of together, but music is just what really moves me. It's just been nice when you can be involved with things that you're really passionate about or be involved in things you are really passionate about. I think as you learn more, and I style a lot of my own stuff as well, so everything I learned from working with other people, I can then apply to myself. Every time you work in a different realm, it just opens your eyes to something else and it's really easy to be, like, 'this is what I do', but working with other  people, it's like 'try that'. It's really nice.

I read that your sibling Dagmar has styled some of your videos. Does your family inspire your style?

Oh my God, in such a big way - even if it's like my sister standing by the door like 'are you sure you don't want to brush your hair' when I was in school. We're really close, me and my siblings are really close, me and my sister are really close, me and my mom are really close. And my mum's German, so even certain braids that I like to play with or different dress shapes that are very specific - corsets that are very specific to the German elements and what I like to wear... And my mum sews a lot, so if there's something I want that doesn't exist, I can sit down with her and make the patterns and stuff. So my family, it's not just in what I wear, it's... so important to me. So they influence every part of my life.

I read that you've stayed in Germany - what's the difference between a summer in a country there and one here in the UK?

So where I'm from in Germany, it's really in the countryside. Most of the summers in my life have been spent in Germany. There's something about wide-open spaces that gives you the chance to play more with who you are. When you're in London, and you grow up there, your friends are like everywhere. So even, if it's like a school holiday summer, I would always be dressed how I usually am in London - then I would go to Germany and I would try out blue mascara or like really dark black eye makeup. Just because there was, like, a lot of freedom there, because it's just like a long time with just you and an open field. And the summers there, I just find really special - I know I'm biased, but there's just more nature there and you can go on endless walks - which you can do in London, but it's nice when it's up a mountain.

What's your ideal summer day like in Peckham?

Actually just sitting in the flat and listening to everyone else's music. Listening to, like, boys playing football and arguing over who did what... when you were still allowed to play ball games downstairs. That to me is Peckham summers, I love them.

Let's say it's really really hot outside. So what's the first thing you want to eat?

In summer, I always just give up on normal food, I just want slushies. Like, all summer: slushies and ice lollies.

What’s your approach to hitting the stage in summer, are you dressing for the heat or to as a performer hitting the stage?

I'm really irresponsible when it comes to dressing weather-appropriate. So probably just whatever makes you feel comfortable, becuase I think you shouldn't really be thinking about your clothes. You should be able to just be, like, can I stand up without falling down? Yes. Can I move my arms if I need to move them? Yes, okay, I can sing now. You just have to be able to do the thing that you do.

What's the best show you've ever done in the summer?

Playing Øyafestivalen in Norway was pretty special. Yeah, that was really special. It was really... it was just a really special day.

When writing, do you ever think to yourself I'm going to make a big summer tune? Would you think that way about songwriting?

I think that, for me, to be able to write I need to not think about where it's going and what it can do after it's been written. With anything like that, I get really blocked up. But I do think - does it feel like the room feels right now? So if I'm writing in summer, when it goes into production is it going to feel like the room that it was written in? I'm thinking about it more in those terms.

What new music have you been listening to lately?

[quietly, to self] That's a really good question. I've been in the studio for ages, so I've just been listening to demos of my songs, but at home I've listened to - If I'm in the middle of writing and like making music, I do just listen to a lot of music that I know that I love because it's almost like taking your mind off what you're trying to create. But I really love Dijon.

And with those demos, can we expect big things from those in the next year or is there anything else that you've got planned for 2020?

Big things with those demos? Yes. Yeah. I'm really excited about where they're going to go. For the meantime, I'm going to be in the studio, but I would love to one day play a show in Brazil because so much of my musical education happened listening to music from Brazil because there's so much there. So it'd be really wonderful to play there as well.

What can't you leave the house without?

Lip balm and a book.

In your area, where you going when it's a sunny day outside?

Downstairs with my dog.

What's your favorite party tune?

'Pour Some Sugar on Me' by Def Leppard. Coyote Ugly I guess, yeah? [laughs]

What's your favorite sweet?

Gummies.

Fave drink mixer?

Slushies. Great drink mixer with tequila.

Favorite movie?

The Marriage of Maria Braun.

What's your favorite place on Earth?

The studio.

And your favorite piece of advice?

How would they describe you?

Annoying. I'm petty, I'm sarcastic, I'm bad at communication, but I'm lovable and generous and funny. I like long walks on the beach. I mean, it's all just like it's all just one big Bumble profile. [laughs] Nah, but I feel like they all secretly love me.

You grew up in Hoxton. What does summer feel like in that part of London to you?

Busy. Chaotic. Familiar. Loud. Fun. There's an energy that comes with the area, that invites people to the area. So it kind of becomes like a hub, like a source of people to come and be themselves or get to the truest version of what they see themselves as... and then complain about it while they're there. That's just like that's just how we do it, we're English fam. We just complain.

Growing up, would you practice being onstage in your bedroom?

Yeah, I mean most of my life, my favourite lyrics are still written in my bedroom. I didn't necessarily ever think I was going to do music, it wasn't necessarily part of the plan. Poetry was just something I used to do as an escape from... everything, from life, from self, from, yeah, from anything. So my first passion and my first love was art, so I painted, drew, illustrated, designed... and I used poetry as a fall back like, Okay, just write what you got to say when you can't communicate. I find you you always have to explain art, people want you to explain art and sometimes it's difficult. So, to put it into words or kind of contextualizing another way was easier for me and then I had an idea for music and the rest is history. We good to go. We lit now.

So what would you consider yourself first and foremost?

I still consider myself an artist, I think the medium changed but the technique, the focus, the idea, the mentality - same thing.

What's the what's the main difference between writing a poem and writing a chorus?

A poem don't have to be catchy. A poem don't have to stay in your mind; the impact of a poem has to, but no particular part or lyric or line has to rhyme or rhythm in a way that sticks to you. Whereas when you're writing music or writing songs, there's a different technique. There's a different charm that comes with that. You can't even let the fact that you're poetical stop you from learning. Connecting loads of words -  yeah, there's a genius to it, but there's also a genius to simplicity.

Some of the best choruses and the best songs were often the most simple, or when you dissect the lyrics or give them meaning, they're the most poetic. So you gotta find a happy medium: whenever I'm writing music and choruses or raps or anything, it's about feeling. I don't feel it, it's off. If I write something and someone recites it back, and something about it feels off, that ain't right. We just fix it.

So what was the moment you definitely knew you wanted to work as a creative?

When I could hustle some money. I used to flip drawings, used to draw stuff for people - they used to pay me in primary school and then I used to flip video work. I filmed for people, wrote video treatments graduate for people. I used to flip -- flip anything, I was good at flipping. I was good at making money, to make some cash. Once I realised I could do it with some art, I was never working a normal job again. Ever. Again. I got fired from every job I ever worked. 

What was the worst job you ever worked?

What was the worst job I ever worked? They was all pretty much based around retail. They was all cool jobs! I just wasn't meant to work and that's fine. You feel that. You just got to figure out you, got to figure out your pace and what works for you. Like there's not one blueprint for everybody in the world and I think I got stuck following the group for a while. And luckily, I think everybody else around me could see it wasn't working for me and I was destined for something else. And that's why I kept getting fired: not because I was late, or because I didn't care enough, or that I couldn't find the stock room, or whatever else they might say. It's because they believed it. [laughs]

What was the first style purchase you remember saving up for?

What'd I buy? Well, some skinny jeans. That was revolutionary for me. I was wearing bootcuts for a long time. [laughs] I remember my first pair of skinny jeans changed my life. Then, trainers, I think I got some like adidas. What else did I like back then? You know what? I wanted to dress like Pharrell, so I bought whatever Pharrell wore or made. So I just saved up for whatever Pharrell made, like BAPE, Ice Cream, Billionaire Boys Club, Human Made, Dirty Ghetto Kids... Loads of them. Even those weird Soulja Boy shoes [laughs] that looked like the Ice Creams! They looked crazy. Yeah, I wanted to dress like Pharrell.

So style and music have always been one and the same for you.

Yeah. Like, when you're a kid, music is a big tool for communication and whoever speaks the loudest to you is going to inspire you the most. I was a kid growing up through like, I guess, trying to find myself and find where I belong. The stuff I saw, the communities and the tribes that I would see exist around certain types of music seemed the most appealing to me. I'm just getting into skate culture, I was really into like that early Neptunes production, and just the idea that style and music could go together. And Pharrell always kind of created a style around the sound, so like there'd be a shift in the music but also a shift in the fashion, they'd go hand-in-hand. You could almost feel the scrambling of everybody trying to catch up or imitate or recreate because it was just so... different and special. I think that effect is what gassed me the most as I want that effect. I'll never imitate anybody's music or anything like that, you can take inspiration, but it's the steps. It's like: what effect did that personality have? If you have the ability to inspire and really kind of create this need for other people to create what's next.

You’ve toured the UK many times, has any parts of the country influenced your style?

I almost bought a kilt in Scotland, but other than that, nah. I stay me. Which is cool. Everybody should be them. When I get there, I'm like you might learn this and I get to learn something. That's cool. I'm happy with learning.

What stopped you from buying the kilt?

It wasn't one in my size.

Fair enough. I read that you were in Accra before jumping into the process of making Cashmere Tears. What style inspiration have you taken from being in Ghana?

I picked up one of the greatest of all time, and her name is Amaarae. She's a young singer-songwriter from Accra and she was the catalyst and glue and the genius that helped make Cashmere Tears that extra bit more cashmere feeling.

Who else are you inspired by in fashion?

Amaarae, she's sick, you gotta see the way she dresses. When I first seen her, she jumped out of a big Jeep with a boxy blazer, she was almost on some Grace Jones type of stuff, but it was wavier because the hair was dyed - all the designer stuff was subtle, it was all accessories and I was like, yeah, cashmere.

Are you a big accessories, big jewelry person?

Yeah. Yeah, I like to say no, but I've got a mouthful of gold and neck full for silver and a wrist with whatever this is. I try not to show it, so I just wear it and keep my mouth closed. I put my chains on and zip my hoodie up. Because it's for me. I like it for me. I like the idea of grafting, sacrificing and when you can, just give yourself something nice. So all the jewelry, when I can, it's subtle [laughs]. When I can!

I read that you were really into Yohji Yamamoto. Can you talk a bit more about that?

Yeah, I mean, I think I think there's there's there's a power in deciding an aesthetic and sticking to it and I think the idea of almost concentrating in black, and seeing how far you can take different shapes and different ideas without stepping outside of an aesthetic... It's still revolutionising, but you're keeping it familiar, which then helps you concentrate your ideas into innovation, rather than trying to trend chase. Because you don't have to care what colors are in season, you have to care about what shapes are going to be most complementary to whatever else is going on out there, because that he's designed a whole wardrobe. That means that you never have to think about it. I feel like fashion should be conscious in the way it's made, in its approach to materials, literally how it is made... But, like, it should be subconscious in the way it's chosen and how it fits into your life, and how you put clothes on and how you approach wearing clothes. You shouldn't have to think about it. Everything should be done for you. That's the perfect consumer relationship, when it's just easy.

What's your favorite thing about working and creating in London?

The people I've managed to meet from here, the creators I've managed to create with here, I've always got to show love to my team:  Kaz, Swindle, Q, Charlie, my sister, managers, like everybody that certainly see my tour manager like everybody else around me my music my band - like everybody that helps me make the stuff is a different part of London. A different viewpoint and different perspective. It all comes together to make the big Megazord. In Power Rangers, you see when it's like they fought the evil ones, pow pow pow, jobs' done. The job is never done. You gotta take that one in. What happens is you don't quit. You assume, grab the mandem, say boom, Megazord time. Everyone gets together. Genius. That's how I ended up with all these amazing projects and great music -  because I am in the Megazord a hundred percent of the time, and I wouldn't have that Megazord without London. Full circle. See how I came back? Mad ting.

What Power Ranger would you be?

I would be the Green Power Ranger because I'm sometimes, I'm here, nah I'm not here, it depends what I'm doing this week... I can't be a Power Ranger all the time, there to save the day all day every day, you know how long this is? Nah, pop up like the Green Ranger, boom. What's that? It's Gucci, I'm wearing Gucci right there. All in front of you. [chuckles]

I saw your set with Swindle at Glastonbury last year and was taken aback by how stylishly you were dressed. What’s your approach to hitting the stage in the summer, are you dressing for the heat or to impress?

It's tough because essentially I used to really really really really dress up. Then I realized how impractical that was for the type of performance I give, so then the basis of a performance outfit was like: an amazing pair of trousers, I start with the trousers every time, cos nine times out of ten I will end the show in probably just my trousers. From there, you can go matching set or you can go some complimentary, so that kind of gives it volume and shape depending on what style of trousers - with skinnier, I might wear something heavy on top, if they're like a flare trouser, I might keep it real simple like a silk shirt on an open up ting.

Boom. Nine times out of ten though, the top's coming off cos we got work to do. So that's when the accessories come into play. The jeew-ells have to be shining. I don't wear my teeth when I'm on stage because I can't rap with these in, but also... The socks got to be fire, because sometimes if it's really crazy, that stage, I might just need to make it home. I mean, I'm kicking the shoes off and we're just going for it. Plus - I don't want to lose my shoes in a mosh pit, so I'd rather just go in there with my socks and have someone pick me up. Crowd surfing's fun.

You’ve hit the festival loop, not only in the UK but in countries across Europe as well. What makes a British summer vibe different to one elsewhere?

It's home! It's familiar, you know where to go. You know where the vibe is, you know how to navigate and I think... Memories are created in the summer, and the more memories you can create, the better. I think naturally as time progresses and generations grow up and there's always like a big vibe, there's always like new memories to make. So I think the summers I remember as a kid are different to the summers I experience now, and the ones that I experience in 10 years will be different to the ones from now. So luckily, If everything goes to plan, I'll be around for many more summertimes and then I'll be able to tell you a real, real answer. Right now, I'm just going through them one by one but I like 'em. Plus: you could go on holiday! If it gets boring, just hop on the plane, land somewhere, two weeks, bit of sun, come back, get more sun.

Tell us the process behind making ‘One Night Only’ with Mahalia, it really blew up.

Yeah, that was a good riddim. We'd done 'Water', which was a great record, my record. I remember I had finished 'Water' and I called Mahalia. First, I like the sound of the song, she's hitting me back straight away like yeah I'm on it. We went to the studio and really hit it off. That's, like, a great friend of mine. I was with her the other day actually, she was picking out jewelery at Cartier. Like, look how far we've come eh? Life's different now. Anyway, boom: back to the song. Swindle made 'Water', Swindle also made 'One Night Only'. So for us, that felt like the Dream Team, so when they had an open verse on that record, first person they called was me. What was crazy about it was that I didn't even intend to, like, be on the record like that. I was just going to help with some writing or whatever, but May puts confidence in me when it comes to my pen, and she teaches me to believe in certain parts of lyrics or ideas that I write down that I'm like hmmm, that won't work for me or that won't sound right. Even when I came in with the [sings] funny duh-duh-duhduh, I was just vibe-writing. I didn't think I was gonna have to sing it, and then, when you see it live, it's a movie. Get them going, eyes closed with the [pretends to hit a high note] It's wavy, trust me. It's a wave! That riddim's fire.

With on stage performances, do you find yourself holding in energy--

No.

So you don't save up energy for the performance, you've got energy all the time?

That's a waste of life if you hold back. Especially when you have the opportunity to go even further. We just got to cut all that out, that whole humble thing. Be humble, have humility, that is a good trait. But, naturally we feel that to appease other people, we have to downplay ourselves. If you're good at something, do good at it and then do great. Do it better than good. Don't ever tell no one, ah I'm not sure, nope. No holding back. If I'm not holding back, you can't hold back. So really, it's just two forces going at it when I'm on stage: it's just two tidal waves crashing. It's just beautiful. It's an explosion of love, it's great, cos no one's holding back. And if you're holding back? To the back, of the bus, go home.

Okay: don't be humble now. Tell us what's coming this year.

Everything, everything you could possibly imagine. And maybe nothing! Sometimes you got to hold back, but in a different way, you gotta make 'em want it, and then: boom! You give them better than great. Last time, I said do good be great. Then you give 'em better than great. So I haven't decided yet. I need to feel it out, I've got so much sitting there. We're bout to do this tour, going off to America, that'll be fun - feel like Eddie Murphy a little bit but it's cool, we'll figure out when we get there. Boom. Come back do a European part, do a UK part, lick off the festivals a little bit or... drop some music, write an album, make a film, design some furniture... I don't know!

Everything. That's the thing. I do whatever I want whenever I want to so I just got to want to do it and everything will be done. In the world, everything. I will change this planet. I promise.

2019 felt like a really big year for you. Was there a point you felt as though, 'wow, this is a real moment'?

[strokes chin] What happened last year? Cashmere Tears came out... Mmmm, so much happened. I forget. Every year rolls into one year, it just feels like it keeps going, and every time you get through that one milestone or one, kind of like, 'Yeah. Okay. That was crazy'. Something else happens the next week that's even crazier. So to process it, I'll almost forget what I did the day before, just so I can process what I'm about to do the next day. My family will have to remind me, like, big yourself up, be proud of yourself, you've come so far, you've done this you've done that. I'll just genuinely forget that - I could do Glastonbury on Tuesday and by Thursday all I care about is getting Prestige in Call of Duty. Like it, depends on what's going on. But I remember when I did KOKO, like a thousand, five hundred people, that felt like the biggest thing that'd ever happened to me. Then the year after that I was headlining the festival with Giles [Peterson] and now, this year I'm about to do Roundhouse and that's double the amount of people of KOKO. After that I got to think about the next big thing. So they all roll into one and I'm just happy I can keep doing it, because like I don't really care how long it takes, as long as I can do it forever.

You feel a bit purposeless when you stop working. That's why I'm like, I wanna just get back on tour, get back out there and start doing shows and not get restless. We stop what we're doing, but then everyone rushes to get to that point with fame, like I want to be the biggest in the world or... Once you're at the top, you can only stay there for so long before you have to come down, that's how gravity works. The higher and faster you get there, the faster you're going to come down! That's science. Gravity, science, it's all right there in the textbooks they teach you in school. You just got to relate it to success and you'll be fine, you'll have all the answers.

Like who's on the up then in terms of gravity that you're checking out?

Everybody that I love and my prayers for them, is that they stay there for as long as possible, because everybody deserves it because everybody works really really hard. Mahalia again, that's a great friend of mine, to see her success is, like, amazing. Even, like, Swindle again, that's my brother - like I remember sitting in the cinema to watch one film and his advert with Apple comes on and it's his music playing, and I'm like yo...! That's big! It's crazy to me, because those are your friends, that's family, you're just excited for them. You just want everybody to win. I don't even know see the top, no one's even near the top, because once you're there, there's only one way down. So we're just still climbing, every day. Climb.

We're going to wrap this up real quick with a quick fire round. Okay, so just clear your mind - get real zen. First thing that comes to mind. What can’t you wait to wear this summer?

Silk.

What's a summer session mean to you?

Vibes. Plenty of vibes.

Who's going to drop the song of the summer?

Me.

What can't you leave the house without?

My wallet. No, I can! I'm lying. I can't leave the house without... my house keys. [chuckles]

In your area, where are you going when it's a sunny day?

Rooftop.

Fave party tune?

'Can't Lose' by Benji Flow.

Favorite sweet?

Werther's Original. I'm an old man.

Fave drink mixer?

Ginger beer. [PAUSE] No! Orange juice.

Favorite movie?

Beasts of the Southern Wild.

What's your favorite place on Earth?

My bedroom.

And your favorite piece of advice?