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See the amount of complaining about the fact they’re giving this to Charity, who’s already had this kind of storyline, versus giving it to someone like Vanessa, makes complete sense within the fandom that constantly complains about how it’s Robert’s turn for a DV/SA storyline 🤦♀️ Yet constantly calls for more “character driven” storylines, like the fact that people like Charity and Aaron and Belle have histories with abuse and control that make them susceptible to these kind of relationships, isn’t about as character driven as you can get.
!!!!! completely.. ig by the fandom who call charity the female robert this isnt surprising, where charity is cast as robert entirely by her blonde bi bitchiness yet robert gets wrongly given a tragic interiority that charity actually Has and has had for 25 years that they just cannot see (mostly bc they just won’t have Watched it, i think most problems can be cured by watching), it perfectly captures how they see man robert vs woman charity.. she doesn’t deserve this plot as much as robert does bc he hasn’t had one before and god she’s always getting them!! yeah maybe theres a reason for that. maybe She has the inner world you give to robert. you call them the same and can’t even give her that... “character driven” to a lot of people also seems to mean. ok so you want rob driven by who he Is as opposed to who anyone else is, not just puppet to someone else’s plot, but, and this has been said a lot, ofc if robert did get his Own plot suddenly everyone would need to drop theirs and their Characters to kneel at his feet. the reason robert hasnt had a rape plot is bc his Character isnt Driven to have one. it’s like people Start from kevbert prison rape assumption, and get mad that robert isnt being driven by the character that that made him, but what about whether the character he was before that would drive him into a prison rape situation?? his insane marriage to kev in its hard-to-make-out power arrangement and robert’s million motivations that all seem to be covering for one another, that was So character driven, entirely. maybe it’s that they want him driven Into something, and they’re ofc just not as interested in charity’s suffering/life/world as his. characters really are mostly i think just dolls to a lot of people, lets put this dress on this one today bc they havent worn it before!!! and in part maybe bc i think thats how a lot of people see soap writing in general, as just an elevated child playing with their dolls, the entertainment coming from what imaginary dinner theyre gonna have and who are they gonna marry This weekend! not denying that putting new dresses on characters isnt fun.. like ofc laurel/ross is compelling me on its surface rn without me having dug into their entire histories to justify my enjoyment but even that will have Depth and reason behind it, sure visuals and daily entertainment are a part of it all but when theyre doing a longer esp more serious plot theyre gonna choose the character they can get the most out of it with, which is hands down charity. robert is not the character to do a prison rape story with, it wouldnt be Good Representation bc i think he’s incapable of that, he’s too weird and evil etc. ig that’s looking at it from a product-driven front though, but really it goes hand in hand with character.. the more the character is naturally driven into a plot the more you’re gonna be able to do with it, with them, you’re not giving it a new dress you’re working with its ew body abandoning this analogy it’s gotten creepy but yeah. oh i wrote too much i’m tired it might be nonsense but no yeah your point exactly. only robert gets to be a Character and not even Of Emmerdale but of their minds.. if robert had his complete driven say he would Not let himself have gotten prison raped. at all. beaten up sure bc he’s annoying and asks for it for a reason but he drove himself into that prison marriage and he liked it <- which ig is another point bc i need another one of those.. charity as woman in emmerdale has her character drive defined by her violations, they made her who she is and it drives her into it again and again. robert was created by jack, he’s driving himself to the flatcap shop. and the part of him that was created by nicola is driving him Out of prison rape bc he’s mr sugden and has repeatedly proven he has the power to do that, to overturn what she did, to never let it happen again. charity has proven she’s stuck as whore forever. it definitely is not in line with her character for her to suddenly escape. i’m gonna stop now bc i’m making less and less sense sorry just. yes.
katie; the hand
Kev & Robert Intimacy Graph
Numerous robron graphs have circulated over the past few months, not to mention the kiss counter wonderfully maintained by @dingleautomotives, that got me curious how the "kevbert intimacy" would look like if it was turned into data.
Without further ado:
Notes :
I counted the kisses that happened on screen, not the ones we know they shared over their married years in prison
I counted their sex life mentioned on screen, not the one they had in prison (and we know it was lively)
I counted the touches that happened on screen, nothing that was off screen (even if one could consider touches were happening, this is about the visible intimacy)
I counted everything that is canon and actually aired, nothing from teasers or cut scenes
Listed above are only episodes they were both in. So Oct 29th is not counted, nor is Sept 30th (though I would wager this one has a love declaration from Robert as he tells Victoria "A man that I spent years of my life with, a man I that I care about, deeply, my husband, he's gonna die soon.").
Why didn't I count their lively sex life in prison or the off screen touches? Because the general audience did not see it and because as much as it is part of their history and informs their on screen story, it isn't a fact that you can get from watching a random scene of theirs. What matters is what was shown. What indicates directly to the viewer what relationship binds them.
Thank you @malivernys for your help!
i forget mack is a character he’s exclusively john’s bunkerthing in my mind i think

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EMMERDALE | 03.06.26
So, what are you doing tonight, then? Plans are falling into place, my friend.
Andy: I'm not trying to skive school, I just feel sick, that's all. Jack: Have you been sick? [Andy nods] Robert: Morning sickness! He's pregnant! Sarah: Yeah alright, Robert. (14th October 1998)
12 year old Robert Jacob Sugden gleefully and proudly inventing the concept of mpreg on an October morning. Happy Pride!
brown paper bag cut for kevbert sex talk
one thing about kevbert that i don't really get is like, the...logistics of uh topping/bottoming in prison. not that i know much about life and/or sex in prison but, it seems...unlikely? or less likely? and if they were having regular anal sex, wouldn't kev know you can penetrate without a functioning dick?
likely, obviously exclusive top kev is a super valid and fun reading, but equally no penetration exclusively intercrural/frottage/mutual masturbation/blow jobs kevbert makes sense too? especially with their i'm not gay/neither am i thing...
but honestly my favourite favourite thing about them having no sex because kev's dick doesn't work is that, regardless of whether kev's an exclusive top or not, the fact that they can't have sex if they can't both get off is just another tick on the column of kevbert being a loving marriage of equals - mutual orgasms or bust baby! no one-sided blow jobs or hand jobs! no one-sided fingering! not in kevbert! (forget that rob is evil and probably would have gone for it if he hadn't had aaron) no taking without giving back! his husband of five years who he loves!!!
why couldn’t paul’s equal rights have gotten him Divorced

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When you had the upbringing I did, you'd have hid this stuff or you got a beating for it.
and ultimately its not just charity as a bisexual woman being sexually assaulted by a lesbian its charity as a lifelong victim of rape, incest, whose formative experiences have driven her to making selfish and destructive choices throughout her entire adult life, who loves her family deeply but not often selflessly, whose attempts to live within the normative bounds of a pastoral village nuclear family with her husband and children are recent after a life of being punished for being unwilling to do so, who made the choice of giving up her body for her granddaughter but not her husband, who made bad choices after being put in an impossible position and is effectively doomed to being punished forever for it, being sexually assaulted by dr. todd who is a well regarded member of society, who uses her position of authority to abuse vulnerable inferiors, whose two onscreen victims so far have been people with a known history of csa/sa. there r a lot of issues i can name w the current sl writing quality and i do get the discomfort w a w/w rship being written as sexually predatory, but its also perfectly in line with how these two characters have been set up and in line with how the show approaches its antagonists - which antagonist hasnt engaged in sexual abuse, when sexual abuse is just an extension of every other form of abuse? i could never complain about it. that being said. charityyyyy 😭😭😭😭.
A new hilarious take I've seen today from a Robcel. I mean yeah there's a lot of talk about the show's supposed homophobic/queerphobic LGBTQ rep but a Robcel somehow managed to include this: that the show kind of makes it seem like Robert is worse than Joe, adding Robert to the list of queer characters who are treated differently from from hetero characters. And insinuating Joe just really wants to be a family man, and having Robert not mention Seb at all. Now it's no longer about the show sidelining Rob and treating him unfairly compared to everyone else in the village but actively discriminating against him because he's bi/queer using Joe as a comparison.
yeahhh they're going on about the show's mistreatment of robert as if it's a homophobia issue. and sure emmerdale's not a bastion of perfect representation, it's not heartstopper. but to call its representation of robert vs joe homophobia is wild, especially if you take off your rob blinkers and look at how they treat all their characters, queer and straight.
same with the charity stuff. @globule made a brilliant post here about what Representation can mean, especially on emmerdale. i'm not gonna rehash their points but i think it's relevant to this discussion as well. the show doesn't treat its queer characters poorly, them getting 'bad' or traumatising sls is more a sign of how much the show loves them imo than anything.
rob not wanting to be a family man, and joe wanting to be one, is not evidence of their hatred of queer men. it's true to rob's character and his current priorities. if he cared too much about seb then i bet they would complain that they're 'feminising' him or forcing him into homonormative family dynamics (though on reflection they would probably uncritically lap it up no matter how little sense it makes for his character). same with rob being widely hated, not only is joe also often persona non grata in the village, a key part of robert's character (esp karlbert and ryanbert) is that he is not well liked, because he's an antagonist who has done things to make people hate him.
whats the dykey version of blowjob brothers. scissor sisters. sees charity and chas walk in well well well if it isnt the scissor sisters. we can workshop this.
maybe it's okay to be made uncomfortable by the tv show. Has anyone considered this

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I've summarized the main objections people have against the Charity SA plot. FWIW, I don't agree with most of these objections. Curious about which one/s you find most ridiculous and which one/s, if any, you agree with: 1. "Bad optics" during Pride month They seem to think it's a bad look to air this during Pride month. Maybe they think Pride month is only about celebrating the positives. 2. Bad LGBTQ representation There’s frustration that the short term queer characters the show brings in all seem to be villainous or unpleasant in some way : John, Kev, Owen (the date Robert went on with last summer who drugged him) and now Todd. 3. No proper w/w romance in ages The show hasn’t had a meaningful w/w romance or relationship in a long time, so for the next major f/f plot to be assault related is apparently lesbophobic. 4. The usual “killing their gays”/underusing queer characters complaint Saying the show kills off queer characters like Suzy and Ethan, while barely using the queer characters it still has, like Matty and Mary. 5. Lack of linear storytelling They are annoyed that the show started with one storyline and then 'twisted' it into something unnecessarily convoluted or something else entirely. What began as a workplace bullying plot has now become a woman on woman assault plot. 6. Throwing too much at Charity Some think Charity is already overloaded with storylines/plots and that this could have been given to Vanessa instead. 7. Charity has already suffered enough Charity has been through enough assaults, abuse and sexual violence during her time on the show so why put her through even more misery, they ask. 8. Robcels and Robroners claiming inconsistency over Kev/Robert Some Robcels are angry because they think Kev’s 'abuse' of Robert was 'played for laughs' while the show is now treating w on w assault seriously. They see that as inconsistent. (to me the only clear instance of Kev's abuse that was shown was his lying about the stabbing and maybe using that to influence Rob's decision to marry him. I don't know if it's abuse or just plain manipulation and deceit) 9. Charity escaping consequences Some are annoyed because they think this plot is being used as a way for Charity to avoid facing the consequences of her lies and deceit over baby Leyla. This seems to come from the same crowd obsessed with every bad deed needing punishment, especially the Robcels who insist Robert is the only character ever held accountable while everyone else gets sympathy or a free pass. 10. Too much doom and gloom They are tired of the constant misery. Apparently they watch soaps to be entertained with lighthearted fun and comedy.
omg anon you beautiful human i am sooo grateful youd write this all out for meee <33 i hate the discourse so i appreciate you doing so much wading through it to be able to summarise it all. i hope you're not too scarred from looking through it omg again thank you for your service ❤️
since youve v kindly and usefully divided the arguments into numbered points ill also go through them one by one !! Yay
1. just soo incredibly silly i dont know what to say. are gay people Not human, should we stop any kind of ‘negative’ programming bc its juneeeee. What. what do celebrating the positives even mean really lol. giving its characters terrible things to face is literally the show's love language and how it operates anyway if they do they love youuu and your character so enjoy !!! happy pride!!
2. Im not saying they used owen that well but omg aside from him these are all arguably complicated, layered, full characters, who were/ are part of the show for a significant amount of time. why should anyone be mad at that. Why does all gay have to be strictly ‘Good’ shouldnt it largely be about them being Human, or them being Here, on the show, if we’re looking at the ‘representation’ argument of things (which i have suchhh mixed feelings on as a concept anyway, its such an oversimplified tool to measure media by)... you can definitely argue for their use of abuse in their stories and characterisation, but why is that bad.. And then what about robert.. mr bisexual abuser of all time lol..does he not count. What about half..no more than, the majority.. Of the male characters that have ever been in this village, now and in the past, short term and long term. all the emmerdale characters in general!! Abuse is a norm, not an exception. the evil gay people are as evil as the evil straight people in this village bc this is how systemic issues and power structures and hierarchies and biases work and play out in communities and in life. in the interpersonal. it's the societal side of the gay, gender and relationship stuff emmerdale is interested in, not really in the identities and base facts of them being Gay. what else is there to the base facts of it apart from having relationships made up of two women or two men. they can and do that easily. it has to be the conflict and bias and specific experiences to the gender the characters are and being gay in a small village and this society that is interesting and creates most story in terms of lgbt specific representation and exploration. that may not seem central to charity/todd but it will be a big part of it bc they're both queer women which is an angle i don't think they've done before (?)
And as said before the way emmerdale works is through creation of conflict and difficulties as Story (which is arguably all story anyway) so acting as if writing a storyline about something Bad happening to someone is a cosignature of said Bad thing is crazy and not great media literacy imo. personally id find it much more insulting if the gay characters were constantly Good and never had to face any conflict, specific or not to the fact they were gay or whatever else... we don't live in a post white supremacy heteronormative misogynistic culture.. so why should the writers pretend we do either?
The only thing i sort of agree with here is that they shouldnt be shorter term temporary characters.. let's get rid of this bad egg theory. this kind of thing ideally should come from inside the village, inside the house, not just be now largely relegated to evil intruders who get ousted after six months or so
3. we do absolutely need more lesbians, of all different kinds and ilks, in all sorts of different stories, always and forever!!! Dykedale always needed. And emmerdale has been terrible at this and is misogynydale for sure (recognising it as such is like.. something very foundational for any analysis to me) ..But this story and dynamic counts as something meaningful, it could be good!!! why write it off bc it’s scary, uncomfortable, why not wait and see what they do. can relationships only be well done if theyre nice and Good for the characters and pleasant to watch…i loved johnron and it was a horror story for aaron and i got sad and scared sometimes with it.. Does that mean it was bad gay man representation? I dont get it. Not to mention the robron of it all lol..
4. i would have to look at the data but i havent got the impression that theyre killing off the gay / queer people. they seem to just be killing or wrting off a lot of characters full stop, bc of budget. to me it seems theres more a problem of killing off and reducing down any of the women’s stories, than all the gays. corriedale was their Big thing this year and it was a gay vs gay fest!!
5. terribleeeeee point to me, maybe the worst. bc oh yeah theres no correlation between bullying and coercion and extortion and threats and power through domination.. And sexual assault. none at alll. stay in your lane emmerdale god stop trying to develop and build rich narratives that make sense!!! seriously tho, this reads to me as a misunderstanding of what rape and sexual violations are
6. crazy that they want to give this to vanessaaaaa. sorry but no. and they could give charity all the storylines in the show and i wouldnt complain. god forbid a female character is put front and centre. she should be in every scene actually
7. i cant emphasise enough how much i hate this one, and it's one of the most common ive seen. im not saying theres never time to raise valid concerns about female characters being made into perverted creators tools for torture porn…but this is just so clearly not that. the people saying this clearly have no idea about how patterns of abuse works as the abused, how chance of re victimisation increases the more you are victimised, about the vulnerability of women and our bodies, and how fragile the autonomy and boundaries of such are in patriarchy. Im sorry it seems over the top to you guys but this does happen, it happens all the time, it’s everywhere, it's constant. this is the world. personally im very grateful for characters like charity. she keeps going she persists ← that's the whole pointttt. and that is very hopeful / positive, not pure misery at all!
8. so stupid lol. there are valid and interesting discussions to be had around kev’s behaviour as abuse (personally i lean more to you anon… and if anything i think rob had more power in the relationship) but i dont get why kev is relevant here.. other than a couple of similarities, that probably the whole village share. bc manipulation one of the show’s bread and butter, everyone’s done it!! just crazy false victimisation if youre seriously saying that women’s abuse is taken more seriously on emmerdale. emmerdale the show of women being victimised and thats just how it is.. since forever!! and ntm they did touch on kev's behaviour seriously anyway. it's just robert wasnt victimised as some wanted him to be and kev was written with more nuance than Villainabuser man. which is a good thing!!
9. Lameeee. as you say it's weird to need every bad deed to be Punished, how carceral minded of you guys lol. and crazy to act as if robert's ever been made to be accountable lmaoooo, he's literally the guy who's got away with everything. this is why any hate he gets will always be deserved, always. also as dear mutual @angstics said.. people probably said this about gordon 'excusing' aaron's behaviour too.. it's the same poor rhetoric. also also it doesn't matter what the show's intentions are!! the text is ours!!! and final also but.. i don't think charity has much to atone for after being treated like a personless baby vessel this whole time by the very people who proclaim to love and protect her after a lifetime of rape and abuse and unwanted pregnancies.. and if you're seriously getting mad at a rape victim getting sympathy for said rape then.. that's strange.
10. soaps can obviously do both and have been since the beginning!! sometimes it's good, sometimes it's great to be made uncomfortable, sometimes it's the whole point. and anyway i feel like they've done a fairly good job recently of balancing the different tones? also i don't think imposing your specific wants on media is a great thing to get into . It'll only make you miserable. it's way more fun to generally accept it for what it is and take what you want from it. or just not watch if it's seriously not working for you / making you nothing but mad. but emmerdale contains multitudes and i love how much it just does whatever and the amount it makes me feel!! it's so fun
I PHYSICALLY SAT UP. WOAHHHHHH. WOAHHHHHHHHHH. This is from returned producer Roper from the official press release on the Todd-Charity story. We’re talking about how the legal terminology for sexual assault is inadequate to human experience?!!!!! EMMERDALE?! Ive been talking about this FOREVER and theyre AWARE? Have I ever said anything bad about this show I dont think so