millie

like...are you seriously telling me that freeing one (1) single enslaved woman that's owned by some random guy would really have affected the entire galaxy and caused widespread unrest or war. It's not like shmi was still owned by gardulla or that she was owned by jabba. Besides, the Jedi could've literally just bought shmi from watto and there would be no need for any problems.

Also...the Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers of the Galaxy. You know what goes against peace in the Galaxy?? Slavery. And it's not like the Jedi have never freed slaves before. One of the things Anakin asks Qui-gon in tpm is if he's there to free the slaves, so the Jedi obviously had a reputation for freeing enslaved people. There's many examples of Jedi freeing slaves in other media including in TCW when they freed the colony of Togruta people from the Zygerrian government, which would've had a much bigger effect than freeing one single woman from a toydarian junk dealer, especially because that took place during an actual war.

like...are you seriously telling me that freeing one (1) single enslaved woman that's owned by some random guy would really have affected the entire galaxy and caused widespread unrest or war. It's not like shmi was still owned by gardulla or that she was owned by jabba. Besides, the Jedi could've literally just bought shmi from watto and there would be no need for any problems.

Also...the Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers of the Galaxy. You know what goes against peace in the Galaxy?? Slavery. And it's not like the Jedi have never freed slaves before. One of the things Anakin asks Qui-gon in tpm is if he's there to free the slaves, so the Jedi obviously had a reputation for freeing enslaved people. There's many examples of Jedi freeing slaves in other media including in TCW when they freed the colony of Togruta people from the Zygerrian government, which would've had a much bigger effect than freeing one single woman from a toydarian junk dealer, especially because that took place during an actual war.

like...are you seriously telling me that freeing one (1) single enslaved woman that's owned by some random guy would really have affected the entire galaxy and caused widespread unrest or war. It's not like shmi was still owned by gardulla or that she was owned by jabba. Besides, the Jedi could've literally just bought shmi from watto and there would be no need for any problems.

Also...the Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers of the Galaxy. You know what goes against peace in the Galaxy?? Slavery. And it's not like the Jedi have never freed slaves before. One of the things Anakin asks Qui-gon in tpm is if he's there to free the slaves, so the Jedi obviously had a reputation for freeing enslaved people. There's many examples of Jedi freeing slaves in other media including in TCW when they freed the colony of Togruta people from the Zygerrian government, which would've had a much bigger effect than freeing one single woman from a toydarian junk dealer, especially because that took place during an actual war.

like...are you seriously telling me that freeing one (1) single enslaved woman that's owned by some random guy would really have affected the entire galaxy and caused widespread unrest or war. It's not like shmi was still owned by gardulla or that she was owned by jabba. Besides, the Jedi could've literally just bought shmi from watto and there would be no need for any problems.

Also...the Jedi are supposed to be peacekeepers of the Galaxy. You know what goes against peace in the Galaxy?? Slavery. And it's not like the Jedi have never freed slaves before. One of the things Anakin asks Qui-gon in tpm is if he's there to free the slaves, so the Jedi obviously had a reputation for freeing enslaved people. There's many examples of Jedi freeing slaves in other media including in TCW when they freed the colony of Togruta people from the Zygerrian government, which would've had a much bigger effect than freeing one single woman from a toydarian junk dealer, especially because that took place during an actual war.

'the jedi order and anakin clashed' yes

'the jedi order couldn't help it uwu it wasn't their fault their rigid teaching methods were so incompatible with such a difficult child' uh, fuck that ableist ass argument actually (and also anakin was not a difficult child... we see in TPM and AOTC how desperately he strives for the jedi's approval and follows their rules even when they cause him suffering... but sure he was regularly getting into fistfights with the other padawans, SURE)

why is it ableist? an institution refusing to make accomodations for a vulnerable child in its care deeply parallels real world educational instutitions failing to accomodate disabled children... which is the argument people are using to defend the jedi order failing to accomodate anakin's needs and trauma (having psychological support/not have his mother in slavery/have a compliment once in a while)... YikesTM is what I'll say

Hi Anon

"Obi Wan kenobi has annoying fans that glaze him up at Anakin's expense with double standars, that's a truth"

Agreed, my problem isn´t the fans themselves but when the creators do this they truly bring some complications. I am sorry but an Obi-Wan that was a slave, even for a few days, is an Obi-Wan who would have been way more empathetic to child Anakin in TPM, if just for their shared experiences and he definitely would have not left Shmi in slavery while keeping her Son away from her.

Obi-Wan is a Coruscant raised Jedi who believed the best path for Anakin was to leave all his "attachments" behind (mother, friends, Padme) to truly become to chosen one and bring balance to the force so his training for Anakin was developed around this idea, to write him otherwise breaks movie canon.

This is also my problem with Obi-Wan´s TV series that also break OT canon, it didn´t made sense for Vader to let go of Obi-Wan when he had him captured( it´s obvious the reason was the plot) and it didn´t made any sense for Obi-Wan to be able to kill Vader and stop himself from doing so, because then Obi-Wan desperate need to train Luke in the OT doesn´t make sense and it´s unnecesary, it doens´t make sense he went as far as lying to Luke about his own father so he would unknowingly kill him, which is something horrible that I don´t think Obi-Wan took lightly, I believe it was pretty hard for him to do so. If Obi-Wan could personally kill Vader, he would have done it for the good of the galaxy and spare Luke and Leia from having to do it.

The reason why Yoda and Obi-Wan were in hiding in the OT was precisely because they could not kill Vader and the Emperor, that´s why they need Luke and Leia, Vader and the Emperor knew Obi-Wan and Yoda were stil alive but they didn´t seek them out because they didnt´care about them as long as they didn´t get in their way while ruling the galaxy, that´s why Vader isn´t surpised to see Obi-Wan alive in ANH and why he told him he should not have come back because then Vader is obligued to kill Obi-Wan.

So yes, Obi-Wan fans can get annoying but creators can be a lot worse because they write or make material that literally breaks canon which is why a lot of fans got dissapointed with SW as it wasn´t a coherent story anymore, This has been happening since the ST, it could have been a lot better if they only respected canon.

But,,and I don't wnat to come off as one of those fans, I feel like some people,(not talking about you nor naming anyone) who actually see the flawed man he is,tend to ovecorrect a bit.

From my experience, it´s more that fans want to talk about Obi-Wan in a nuanced way and they can´t because his strongest fans perceive that as an attack of the character instead of seeking to give him his nuance back and so both sides can take to extremes their interpretation of Obi-Wan even when it wasn´t their original intention.

I personally like Obi-Wan quite a lot but it doesn´t seem that way because most of the time I have to talk in Anakin´s defense to give him a little bit of his nuance back, but I like Obi-Wan as we see him in the OT and PT, not the fanon version some fans prefer because they love Ewan Mcgregor and can´t imagine him being less than perfect.

I love Obi-Wan´s sense of humor even if he is a bit of a jerk to Anakin, Qui-Gon, Satine and bassically all his loved ones, including enemies, like Maul, he is sassy, that´s a part of him, he is loving even if he would be damned before he openly says it instead of using sarcasm as a shield, he is extremely loyal, well intentioned, pragmatic, knows how to move fast in a bad situation, loves the Jedi Order as his family with all his heart and also loves the Skywalker family.

That said, I don´t believe he loves Anakin or even Luke more than being a Jedi as some of his biggest fans affirm, most of his motivation in both trilogies and TCW, which are the works approved by Lucas so I tend to treat them as more canon than other material, ObiWan´s priority has always been the Jedi Order, even the reason why he decided to stay on Tatooine to watch over Luke was for the Jedi Order, not for Anakin and Padme, even if he most probably had many feelings for them too.

For Obi-Wan watching over Luke and train him was a mission he had to acomplish to save the galaxy, defeat the sith and bring back balance to the force, that´s why he choose to lie to Luke about his father real fate in order to convince Luke to defeat and kill Vader and the Emperor. He could not allow himself to be more emotionally compromised with Luke or even Anakin´s memory, because that would have stood in the way of his mission for the Order even if there were only Yoda and him around left.

like him like being a manipulative jerk

That said, I don´t believe Obi-Wan is a natural manipulative jerk, he is more like, if the mission needs it I will be the biggest manipulative jerk you have ever seen otherwise I will just annoy you with my ssassines but you will still love me anyway. That´s another big part of Obi-Wan, he can be ruthless when he needs to be, that´s why we are shown in ANH how easily he cuts off the arms of criminals who were menacing Luke, that´s Obi-Wan using his protective steak to acomplish the mission, it´s a part of him but that doesn´t mean he is always like that or that he lies and manipulates because he wants to or enjoys it, he does it when he has convinced himself he needs to for the greater good.

all what he is and many feel like he is unsympathetic who didn't deserve a happy ending as a force ghost. How much do you think those reactions are warranted?

I have not seen fans believing Obi-Wan deserved to not have a happy ending tbh, tumblr is very big so I could be mistaken but in general I believe most fans would have prefered for Obi-Wan to grow old with the Jedi Order and for Palpatine to have failed to take over the galaxy, that´s pretty much general perception from the comments I have seen.

I also wish Obi-Wan would have had a happy ending living with the Jedi and spending time visiting Anakin´s family just as mush as I wish Anakin would have raised his twins with Padmé on Naboo and get back to his original wish to free all the slaves in the galaxy. I see this as an alternative ending that could have happened, they were close to having it and the tragedy is that it didn´t become a reality but that´s also what makes the pathos in star wars so strong and such a significative story for many fans.

He trained Luke to face Vader while deliberately withholding the fact that Vader was his father. He framed Vader as a separate monster who had “betrayed and murdered” Anakin Skywalker, and when Luke finally confronted him with the truth and said he could not kill his own father, Obi-Wan’s answer was basically: then the Emperor has already won.

That was not an accident. That was the point.

Even Yoda, when Luke confronts him, does not say, “You never needed to know.” He says Luke was not ready for the burden. Which means they both understood exactly what they had hidden from him, and why.

And then we have the prequels.

On Mustafar, Obi-Wan did not just “walk away.” He cut off Anakin’s legs and his remaining organic arm, watched him catch fire, listened to him scream, and then left him there to burn alive.

In the very famous Revenge of the Sith novelization, Obi-Wan thinks it would be merciful to end Anakin’s pain.

But he was not feeling merciful.

So he turned his back.

You can argue he could not bring himself to kill Anakin. You can argue he was emotionally destroyed. You can argue he rationalized it through the Jedi code because Anakin was unarmed.

All of that can be true.

But the ending is still what it is: He left someone to burn to death. The same boy he had raised since he was nine.

Obi-Wan is compelling because his morality is broken in deeply human ways. He is compassionate, loyal, self-sacrificing, traumatized, loving — and also capable of cruelty, rationalization, manipulation and terrible decisions while still believing he is doing what must be done. His dichotomy is the point.

And that is why I hate the “Saint Kenobi did nothing wrong” version of him. It makes him boring, and honestly, it breaks the coherence of the story.

And one of the reasons I especially hate the whole “Obi-Wan suffered more than Anakin and never turned to the dark side” argument is because it is a horrifying comparison.

Anakin was groomed by Palpatine since he was nine years old. And that grooming was enabled by serious institutional failure, because somehow a grown politician in his fifties was allowed private access to a vulnerable former slave child.

Anakin was born enslaved. Then he was separated from his mother and his fear, his anger, his passion, his attachment to his mother — everything that made him human and traumatized — became a problem to be corrected, and worse, seen as a danger. As if a child in that situation should not feel fear, when fear was very natural emotion considering what happend and where he was.

Then his mother died in his arms. And then, barely an adult, he was thrown into a galactic war and expected to lead as a general.

Obi-Wan was twenty-five when he met Anakin. He lost his master, whom he loved. Later, he lost Satine, whom he also loved. His life was not easy. I am not pretending it was.

But to say he lost more than Anakin, or that he lived under the same circumstances and simply "choose better", is a terrible lie this fandom has repeated for a very, very long time.

After Anakin’s fall, you can say Obi-Wan lost more in one specific sense: he survived the genocide of his people. He lived with the ruins. Everyone he knew, cared with, his culture. Was gone.

While Anakin lost himself. He was groomed, broken, mutilated, burned, enslaved again under Sidious, and trapped for over twenty years inside a machine that kept him alive in constant pain.

And second: Obi-Wan may not have fallen to the dark side, but that did not stop him from making extremely questionable decisions.

He left Anakin to burn alive, he tried to make Luke commit patricide, then justified the lie afterward with the infamous “from a certain point of view.”

Falling to the dark side corrupts someone almost entirely. But not falling does not automatically make someone virtuous.

The Council says that they cannot see Anakin’s future. I think that’s because Anakin’s future hasn’t been decided yet. His future will be shaped by the choices that others make. One day Anakin will be an adult who decides to fall to the Dark Side. Anakin does have agency but his direction is influenced by those around him. Right now he’s not an adult. He’s nine and the adults around him are making decisions that will affect his life.

Yes the council cannot say with certainty that Anakin is the chosen one, but they do suspect he could be. And even if they don’t, there is evidence that Anakin was created by the Force itself. For a bunch of people who yammer on about listening to the Force, absolutely none of them do in this scenario. Like the Force could have easily created a kid within Republic space. One that the Jedi would definitely be able to detect and get at a young age and raise with all their rules and regulations. But the Force did NOT DO THAT! No the Force is like here is my son, the one that I intentionally had born in the Outer Rim where you do not go, and where he was so far away that none of you detected him. Also I only led a Jedi there once the boy was old enough to form attachments. A boy who hasn’t become an emotional constipated person. Who feels fear but stands before you with his head held high. Who is feeling emotions but doing the scary thing anyway and not just pretending he feels nothing at all. Maybe you should all look at this kid and wonder what lesson I’m trying to impart here?

And instead of realizing that the Force is literally presenting them with the exact type of child the Force wants, what does the council do? They themselves become afraid and cling even tighter to their ways. They outright reject the notion of a kid with those qualities.

The Force is trying to show the Jedi what balance can look like. That balance is achievable. Anakin at nine is terrified but fearless. He is kind and loving and strong. Despite his fear and his attachment to his mother, Anakin does leave her. He goes to a new world and joins the Jedi and he doesn’t go back for her until he literally can’t ignore the Force anymore. For someone that people claim has unhealthy attachment, Anakin did exactly what was expected of him. Of course he missed her but he let her go to focus on building his life.

Anakin is the most Force sensitive because he was not just born with Force abilities but because he is born OF the Force itself. And what is the Force? It’s a connection between all living beings. So naturally someone with that much connection to the Force is going to want to CONNECT WITH OTHER LIVING BEINGS! Only to end up in a place that says that feeling those connections is bad.

I’m on my first watch of the Clone Wars but it’s very obvious how different Anakin is from the other Masters. We see the difference in Ashoka too because she’s learning from Anakin.

In the episode where Anakin is injured, the other Masters is basically telling Ashoka to start letting Anakin go now. That in order to save everyone, Ashoka needs to focus on those that still have a chance. So just leave Anakin here and focus on getting help for those who can actually use it. Which yes, you can’t jeopardize everyone’s safety for one person who is dying. But also Anakin isn’t dead! The Master is basically like we should resign ourselves to Anakin dying and get help for the living. But the two goals were not mutually exclusive?! Instead of framing it to Ashoka as if you want a chance of helping Anakin, we need to work together to get help for both ourselves AND him. Leaving Anakin to get help was actually the only way to help Anakin. The decision for Ashoka to go was the right choice. The motivation the Master presented was very callous and uncaring. She was so detached that she didn’t actually care if Anakin lived or died. I mean hey if he happens to live that’s nice but helping him certainly wasn’t even on her list of goals.

There’s a lack of balance in that Master’s approach. She is so detached that she doesn’t care about individuals anymore. Only the grand plan of the mission. Balance isn’t becoming cold and unfeeling. It’s not like whelp he’s probably gonna die so we should stop caring. It’s trying to save all individuals while there’s still hope, and only accepting and moving on AFTER they’re dead. The balance is caring even if there’s nothing you can do and letting go after.

When Barriss and Ashoka were buried under the rubble of the droid factory, Anakin refused to give up. Luminaris was like it’s the will of the Force. Barriss was also resigned to her fate. She had taken the lessons of her master and knew that Luminaris wasn’t coming. Both of them were passive to what is happening. It’s like they decided that they had no control over what happens next and should just accept the inevitable. But Ashoka knew from experience that Anakin wouldn’t just sit around and start mourning her until he actually knew she was dead. Ashoka fought because that’s what Anakin taught her to do. Luminaris told Anakin that she hadn’t given up. But like, girl, you literally sat down in the dirt ready to start preparing yourself to mourn Barriss. That’s pretty much the definition of giving up. I guess by not give up she means she’s going to sit there passively and if it’s the will of the Force, somehow Barriss will survive or suddenly have the rubble shift?

Again lack of balance. Barriss and Luminaris are completely passive to the will of the Force. But the Force may connect people but it doesn’t dictate every individual action. You can’t be like I’ll sit here and let the Force do all the work. You have to have the drive to do it yourself. Anakin and Ashoka had the drive to actually save themselves. Ashoka and Barris survived the explosion. Luminaris even stated that she felt their lifeforces. The Force did its part by making sure they survived, now you have to kick in and actually get them out.

These scenarios show that the Masters have become passive and uncaring for individual lives. They have swung too far away from emotions that they themselves have become unbalance. Anakin has the passion and the drive to save the lives of those around him.

It's why a single Sith is able to keep the visions of the entire council clouded for so many years. Palpatine is able to do this because he is actively working to obscure the Force. While there are 10,000 Jedi, they are passive and wait for the Force to choose whether or not to show them anything.

With the Blue Shadow Virus, Anakin is dedicated to saving all lives. Obi-Wan is like, you have to be prepared to sacrifice a few lives to save more. And Obi-Wan isn't wrong. But it doesn't mean Anakin shouldn't try to save everyone either. Ankain pushes himself harder than anyone else, because he wants to save everyone. It's not always possible, but at least he knows that he tried. How is he supposed to live with himself if he just lays down and allows things to happen? Not trying is what happened with his mom, and the lack of doing anything is what haunts him about her death.

When people talk about Shmi's death, the focus is always on how Anakin used the Dark Side to kill the Tuskens. Which, yes, but the thing is, that Shmi's death was actually about how there wasn't any balance. Anakin was having nightmares for a month. He kept asking Obi-Wan about them. And what was Anakin told? To let it go. To not think about his attachments. This is too far in the wrong direction. Everyone knows that dreams can be prophetic. I get the impression that Anakin hasn't consistently had dreams about his mom until recently. I think until that point, Anakin had learned to let his mom go. But once again, because the focus was so heavy on 'don't be attached' that no one looked any further while the Force was sending messages blaring that an innocent woman was being tortured and that something should be done about that! Anakin was pressured into not going to Tatoonie to check for himself and his mom died. Then he swung to opposite direction and was filled with hate and rage. And while yes, a lot of that hate and rage was at the Tuskens, I mean they did hold an innocent woman hostage and literally torture her for a month straight. But I'm sure a lot of his hate and rage was also for himself. Because he had the ability to do something and he didn't. If Anakin had come as soon as he was able and had fought with everything he had, and the outcome had been inevitable despite his actions, he probably could have lived with himself much easier. But in the end, it's obvious that if Anakin had come when he first started having the dreams, he could have saved her since she lasted this long. If the Jedi code had allowed for Anakin to worry and check on someone he cared about when he was having these dreams, a woman would have lived and Anakin would have been balanced in his actions.

I see Anakin as naturally being the most balanced in the Force. By that I mean, that he does what is necessary to save innocents.

When Poggle is captured and the Jedi need to get information to save innocent lives that are being mind controlled by those worms, Anakin does what needs to be done. The Jedi would allow themselves to take the moral high ground and let everyone on the ship die, just to say that they didn't let their emotions rule them. Anakin went in and scared the ever living daylights out of Poggle. But also, Poggle is not some innocent person. He is very gleefully watching the Jedi's fear and knows full well that everyone infected by the worms is being tortured and he's loving in it. There reaches a point where some people are so violent, that violence is the only language they speak. It's very obvious that Anakin used the Dark Side. But he wasn't consumed by it. Anakin used his emotions just enough to get the information he needed. It didn't look like Anakin was enjoying himself, just getting a job done. And once Anakin got what he needed, he stopped. In that moment, Anakin was balanced enough to tap into the Dark Side and be motivated by emotion, while also being able to pull himself back out to do the right thing and save everyone.

When Padme is working with Clovis, Anakin is worked up. Yes, he orders Padme to not go, but he knows he can't control her and is just trying to convince her to stay in the absolute worst way possible. Although most of Anakin's issues with Padme doing this mission stem from the fact that she is an untrained civilian who is being used as a spy and only a small part is because it's with a boyfriend that he had no idea about. And yes, Anakin is jealous. But when Anakin walks in on Padme and Clovis with their arms wrapped around each other, what does Anakin do? He lets it go and walks away. He takes the disk and makes the choice to trust Padme to not let things get too far. He puts the mission above his emotional attachment. Almost like he has the ability to not be unhealthily attached and do what needs to be done. He gives the disk to Artoo and tells him to leave and make sure the mission is a success. He's completed what he has to on the mission, now he can focus on the other half which is checking that Padme is okay. Anakin found balance on that mission between making sure they got what they needed and not abandoning Padme.

Starting with the things the film is proving us at this point are:

Qui-Gon seems to be a wise but non conformist Jedi master who has an old Padawan, Obi-Wan, who is about twenty five years old. He finds in a fuck lawless planet the possible chosen one, the Jesus of the space, mind you, who is a kind small kid of nine years old but he is a slave with a bomb in his tiny body ready to explode whenever his master wants. He was able to free this child but not his mom and she gives him her baby boy hoping for a better future and the promise of a jedi training. ( I will not deep dive the moral implication of this for the Jedi order or Anakin).

But surprise of surprise an ancient enemy,who nobody saw for the last century at least, a mysterious Sith just try to attack them and Qui-Gon manages to escape with everybody safe. He arrive to Jedi temple to give his mission's report and Anakin is tested but because he is not a younger child and he is afraid about his mom, the first person who cares for Anakin's safety and well beening, who still a slave with the same bomb and few security net in a fuck up planet. And remember also that it seems the first time Anakin is on another planet with now no certainly about his future. He has no documents, no money or people to go to ( yes, he has Padme but for what he knows she is a handmaid who he could not be sure that they would meet again). This child has also no means to turn back to his old home and it is a chance he returns a slave if not be killed; not to count of cursr of the new Sith lord who just knows at least about this kid's existence, so there is a big danger on the horizon if he took him.

Qui-Gon, who appears to be a reasonable adult and the one who has decided to bring Ani along, in a tentative way to help Anakin and reassure the concil propose himself as a master. I interpreted this as a way to say "He is not a problem, you had not to worry because I will take care of him".

Obi-Wan is obviously hurt and I don't blame him because at the moment he feels rejected but he is also a well established member of the Jedi order, he is mature enough to take his trials to become a knight and he is safe, nothing and I repeat nothing would change his confortable condition. It isn't like Qui-Gon is abandoning him, they could still talks and meet if Obi-Wan needed that. So between the two : an adult who has a stable condition and a kid with a foggy, to say the least, future. Anyone with a bit of heart and head would try to secure the kid.

This rant started ro form while I read some fanfic ( no hate to you guys, I love your works so keep going) witch enfants how Qui-Gon was unfair to Obi-Wan but the movie didn't support it because also Obi-Wan renforces this propose saying that is ready. I think he realizes quickly the situation ( yes I'm aware about the scene when he described Anakin as a danger but that is when the concil as had already pronounced and didn't want to change their ideas; so now it is useless go against it and make no sense for Obi-Wan).

anakin is a little boy, but in his life he has already faced slavery, abuse of various kinds, violent deaths of other slaves through explosion, severe pod accidents, and so on

it was meaningless twat