Fuzao interview project

Round #05

Roef Gerbang  : RG

Guido Bisagni : 108

Their conversation will be presented in ways like chat record of social network

RG: Hi! Mr.Guido.My name is Cheung. I’m Meiko’s friend, so nice to meet you! Meiko said we could can make this conversation together,  so where can we start? oh, by the way, I’m a skateboarder as well!

108: Hey Cheung! How are you? Nice to meet you! I was a skateboarder! now I have 42 years old, I still have my skateboards, but it's better if I walk or I use bike :)

If you want we can start with something about skateboarding and art/stuff related to it! Like when and why you started to skate or something like that! I'm always super interested about it

RG: Yes,Mr Guido！let‘s start talk to Sk8，good choice！By the way, I’will be 39 years old till June this year！So in fact I‘m not young neither！But I still skate 2 or 3times per week，sometime 4. So I think Sk8 is good for healthy, keep ur legs strong…I mean it can also keep you feel young，I feel like I’m sort of old monster try to grab the youth power in my hand！and that's why I keep skating.. I told Meiko：“thank you for introducing a Sk8 homie in Italy！I started to go skateboarding since 2016，at that time I worked as a illustrator in Ad company，one day a project which needed to look for some reference about surf，I thought surfing is cool，but I’m not living by the sea，then I noticed skateboard…I was just wanna a board that can cursing around，but when I step on it，I addicted into it，riding stuff can‘t satisfied me anymore，then Ollie，bs/fs 180，shuvit……and my Sk8 journey turn on?How about yours？

108：(Hey, sorry yesterday I uploaded too many stories and message section went out of control)

Heheh, nice to hear that I'm not "so old" so! Anyway, the past year I met two times my old friends, we went to visit a very nice place just out from our city called Skatefarm, it's like a DIY skatepak made by great skaters. Anyway, I'm not able to skate on a skatepark and I age made me very scared about it. I was a skater mainly in the 90's and we had just the street. I started to skate around 1990 with a plastic toy skatebord of my sister than I met new people. Some of them are still some of my best friends, It was not just about learning tricks, it was a weird way of life, I spent every day of my life on a supermarket parking for many years! Crazy, after the boom in the 80's during the early 90's skateboards became very underground and crazy, we dressed xxxl all the times and we were real misfits. For sure skateboard was one of the most important thing in my life, it changed everything.We were all coming from a low/mid class and it gave us the possibility to came out from our small city situation, through it I discovered all that kind of music I still like, graffiti, art, I became a vegetarian because I red a interview with Ed Templeton when I was 17 and still I'm, so for sure, skateboarding is part of me.

Old photo from 108, the parking of supermarket, with his skate crew in 1992 in his spot in the city of Alessandria, Italy.

Old photo from 108, the parking of supermarket, with his skate crew in 1993 in his spot in the city of Alessandria, Italy.

This photo is me in 1993 ? - So, I'm curious: for me skateboard was very important to know art and new kinds of culture: punk, graffiti, and than arts, video making and stuff! You came to skateboard through illustration is that right? It was a different process, let me know about that!

RG: Oh my god... ...the 90's ! The golden and glory 90's ! Mr Guido you’re the true legend ! Meiko told me before that you have been skated for very lonnnng time ! And so do you ! I really wish you can go skateboarding again in future even if only on flat ground ! I really admire that you can have awesome relationships with your guys in 90's ! Nowadays skaters in china , especially the Z generation don't connect with each other oftenly. Most of the time kids just put on ear phone and skate on their own . I do have a little friends who can skate together sometimes , but most of the time , I skate alone . But that's ok , I just yearn for the 90's and 90's people , that's all look at your photos seems like you can do flip trick... ... I still learning , to land my first Kickflip is so damn difficult..

“See Saw” illustration by Roef Gerbang

Yeah, but actually I came to Sk8 through my last job , since then on I do put lots of illustration into it . And it is also my goal in future... I still need to make more skateboard art that can allow me to cooperate with skateboarding brands . 

I also want to make skateboarding film , this art form can also let me use my art to do something with it , I’m working my first skateboarding film in process , it’s cost me nearly 2 years...

“Traffic Jam” illustration by Roef Gerbang

“Chazslater” illustration by Roef Gerbang

“Sad skater” illustration by Roef Gerbang

“Cicollins no comply party” illustration by Roef Gerbang

“Catch” illustration by Roef Gerbang

“Lawson 2：00 am” illustration by Roef Gerbang

Hope my film can come out this year . last year I was planed it when I finish the film maybe take it to some skateboarding film festival but cause of coronavirus spreading to all over the world , now I don't know whether there's any skateboarding film festival will open this year?

I’m confusing now that should I save the film to next year when the world become normally and take it to festival ? or I just put it on internet this year...damn, so hard to decide!

Roef Gerbang’s first skateboard

Doodle on first board…

Roef Gerbang’s first shoes for skate

This is when Cheung studied ollie，it torture a long time, and now still torturing he, so sometime he call himself ‘  “Ollie Patient”

And this is now，Cheung can only do some spin trick and basic rail/box trick

I make comic , cartoon and figural art a lot...sometimes I make animation as well, I think i don't have a abstract thinking brain，lol?

"Three Posture People" Acrylic, Wall Post 2019

I can only feel what I see and transfer them into my art style...I found sometimes when I feel extremely tired while I still working in front of computer...my eyes already closed at that time…but my mouse still working on photoshop...and I will suddenly wake up and saw a abstract image…

“Bear man” series product  by Roef Gerbang

I 'm very curious about your art , when you working on them what are you thinking?

And what lead you through all that pictures till finished ? Instinct ? or the result of practice yourself so many years?I really like this your work (the photo below) because they are looks like butterflies, very beautiful…but the rest of them are too abstract to me? I can only figure out they‘re shapes with texture…but still look fun and mystery！

KU2 large pattern, by 108

I like this one… the patten line into a rule looks so coool！If it can be designed for shirts or trousers must be nice！Looks very high-class!

108: Wow, you are very good to skate! I'm not able to do anything anymore! hahaha, After 10 minutes my back is broken! I was able to do some filp tricks 20 years ago, I started during the "flat" times, so we were making a trick very low. The biggest problem is that in 97 I broke my wrist, and I went to the hospital after 3 months, hahah so, it's still broken. Sometimes it cause a lot of problems I can't do some kind of sports, I need the stick when I paint huge walls. I'm very very scared about it, if I fall on it I have to stop to work for months and I can't work. Anyway, I'm thinking about buying some bigger and softer wheels to ride a bit sometimes, we'll see! Here we are all inside home too.

CORPOPARASSOTA Photography series by 108

Maurilio Arcivescovo by 108, 2012

About your questions 

1) I 'm very curious about your art , when you working on them what are you thinking about ?

It's not easy to reply: I think about too many things, the core of my research is the form. I like forms, everywhere, in nature, old primitive art, design, everywhere. I love textures, colors, but mainly it's about forms and lines. there two parts: irrational/irrational, planned, random, geometrical/organic... I try to find a balance or a total contrast on the two parts.

Large wall painted by 108 in Brescia, Italy, 2019

The work of 108 at Bunker, Turin, Italy, 2013

The work of 108 at Barcelona, Spain, 2014

The work of 108 at Brooklyn area, New York, America

2) And what lead you through all that pictures till finished ? Instinct ? or the result of practice yourself so many years ?

Some works, usually canvases are made with a first sketch, than I start to work and I change it, I don't like to plan, process is important as the final product. Other works, for example the black and white lines/patterns on paper or sometimes on walls, are more like a meditation. I decide some rules and than I follow those rules, trying not to think about anything, just focus on the process. I got a lot of inspiration from eastern art and philosophy, both aesthetically and conceptually. In fact I really like the connection between west and east, not just in art.

The work of 108 at Saint Petersburg, Russia, 2017

The wall of 108 with nuns at Buenos Aires, Argentine.

Every year I buy the annual subscription for the museums in my region, I go maybe 7-8 times in a year to see the Eastern art museum in Torino (MAO) I'm crazy for it, there is a big Chinese section, I need to search pics and I'll show you some my favorite objects!

Some of 108 favorite art works at the art museum in Turin (MAO)

So, skateboard is something that came from US basically, now it's a global thing, but for me too it was something exotic. What inspire you, I mean do you find inspiration inside Chinese culture too? how do you mix the two things?

RG: Sorry, Mr Guido！Reply lately…I was thinking about how to answer your question better…

Oh my god, not realize that you have been injured so badly..:(

My wrist and ankle have problems too，and I also don‘t jump stairs for years…flat ground and stage are better for me, hahaha....

For the question: to find inspiration inside Chinese culture too？

Yes, of course I am. I do inspired by Chinese culture , especially from traditional Chinese painting...the ancients they had have rich technique of expression : the line can be separated into many forms, such as dry , wet , heavy , light and so on and colors as well , for example , if you wanna painting a pine tree ,before you painting the pine needle you should paint a color first , then before the color dry , you draw line on that color can make the two parts mixed well..

“The leader“ illustration by Roef Gerbang

I also learn how to compose and leave “white space”？or should I say“blank space”（don‘t know the description right or wrong，but in Chinese called“留白”）from Chinese traditional painting，and really help me a lot, I pay more attention on form too，learn lots of things from not only Chinese traditional painting but old asian art.

I study how to control the line‘s rhythm, draw a line when going fast or slow down；how to make your art looks more interesting, more art sense will always be the lessons.

“Crow perched on willow tree in spring” , by Zhu Da (八大山人), Qing Dynasty

This work from famous painter of Ming Dynasty named：Zhu Da, aka. 八大山人(Ba Da Shan Ren）You can find that he got very special style to paint birds and another animals，and his art is too much different from other ancient Chinese artists

Look at these three unique tigers

“Bee and tiger” painted by Hua Yan（1682-1756）

“Bee and tiger” this image is the detail of the painting, usually people can‘t see that bee，actually it’s on the right corner when you see the whole picture, and the tiger is not aggressive as usual, scared, the ears also fell down，bend the tail, afraid of bee‘s sting...

Old Korean painting，unknown artist

Painted by Yanagisawa Kien (柳泽建) Japanese painter, Edo period, 18 century

I found these art works they always pursue some kinds of weird feel，not only copy the truth but more expressive force.

"After Party" acrylic, abandoned old skateboard, 2019

And this is also my goal, like I say more expression, more art scene. You noticed irrational, random, plan…I’m agree with you, I also like the process more than result, painting is more like adventure, like fishing, I like the view on the road more than arrival, enjoy more the fish bite the bait than cook them.

Comic Exhibition, painting by Roef Gerbang, Hamburg, Germany 2018

"Stranger" watercolor on paper, by Roef Gerbang, 2014 

Yanshu book 48-hour comic production project, “Deja Vu” 2015

"Some like it blue" Hong Kong 62 Independent Cartoonists Group Exhibition 2016

I like simple technique to describe a thing，but interesting，that‘s what I learn from the ancient artists，oh，nearly forgot，many outsider art teach me a lot as well

So let me ask one last question for you Mr Guido：how do you think about storytelling and abstract art relationship？Do you think is there any possibility to make storyline into abstract art？

"Bs tailslide ignition" , acrylic on paper, 2017

So glad to talking with you, I‘m really enjoy the sk8 and art topic！Hope we can meet each other after coronavirus！maybe in future I‘m looking forward to that day，wish you keep pushing and have a long artistic life，Ciao！

The "Puzzle" short story is included in the "GAME" comic compilation, published by Wild Things Press

108：Ciao Cheung! ￰ Thanks a lot for it, Chao is fine to me!!! And sorry for my late reply too!

I can say ni hao, it sounds not so different, but I'm not able to write it in chinese :(

Thanks a lot for your reply, for the artists and for the pics those tigers looks so "modern"! I'm very familiar with japanese art and culture, here, expecially my generation, we grew up with japanese cartoons on tv, manga, than music and stuff... I know that large part of japanese culture has roots in chinese culture, like zen buddhism or calligraphy, but for years it was very hard to be in contact with it., so I'm always trying to find out more about it and to understand it.

So..about your question: "Let me ask one last question for you Mr Guido：how do you think about storytelling and abstract art relationship？Do you think is there any possibility to make storyline into abstract art?"

First of all, I need to explain that I don't like labels. I mean, of course I use the word "abstract" to explain quickly what I usually do, but labels describes borders. I think in 2020 we have the possibility to explore many kinds of visual arts, many different medias... so yes, I think it's possible to tell stories with "abstract art".

"Sogno Lucido" by 108, 2019

"The key" by 108, 2019

"Blue" by 108

"the entrance of the dream" by 108

"La Casa Park" by 108, 2019

Tele exhibition in New York, La Casa Park.art, 2019

The work of 108 in the Milan Triennale 2008, Italy

Ceramic installation by 108

Figurations, clay, by 108

Complete figurations,  by 108

Installation Museum of the incomprehensible Antonio Colombo 2019 Milan, Italy

I mean usually yes, my work is visually abstract but I love to put a lot of things in what I do. First of all I think that all my pieces are connected and there a lot of things inside them. Cinema (or video) is a very complete for of art: you have the image, a story, the sound... with pictures you have to put everything on a single image.

Trollhattan Sweden 2016

Saeio catanzaro, by 108

Solo exhibition of 108 in Lyon, France, 2020

Archaeological Museum books above, book made by 108, Palermo, Italy, 2019

But there is more: I work also with sounds for example and sometimes I made some videos, but what fascinates me the most about any kind of art, is when it gives you a lot (ideas, feelings) but it don't gives you everything. I need some un explained parts, some shadows where I can enter and I start to imagine and to build my own world. What I like about some "not figurative" art is this kind of mystery inside it. But it can be also a movie or a photo or a landscape or anything else! I hope you understand what I mean.

"24 Tapes" series, made of 108

Exr in Seoul, wall painted by 108, 2016

So, do you think is this enough? I'll search for some pictures to add to the text! 谢谢 Mr.Cheung! It was a real pleasure to talk with you! I hope, if the virus will let us travel again, to visit China in the next years finally and of course if you are around northern Italy I will be happy to meet you! Let’s keep in touch on Instagram!

Painting on Etna Vulcano, 108

RG: Mr Guido. Those characters you showed me that from MAO are the Tomb Beast…？？In Chinese called“镇墓兽”. They‘re the guardians of tomb. In Chinese culture，people think that when people died（their soul）go to the other side of the world，there’re countless ghosts，evil spirits will harm the soul. So the guardians (have human’s face，beast‘s body) they can protect the soul stay away from the demon, and keep them safety.

108: Yes exactly! There are many of them! Amazing, they looks so modern and I like so much these kind of stories.

RG: Mr Guido, I think about our last talk “labels describes borders” couple of days ago…and it make me sense，like，portrait painting，still-life painting with very realistic technique will boring for me, it’s lack of imagination, but in the other way, if the portrait, landscape painting with simple and refining technique can make me watch for a long time. it‘s super cool tho..

So in fact I’m the guy just like you who searching for the shadows as well..:)

108: I understand very well! I love portraits, landscapes and still lifes too. But I enjoy when you can find something interesting on the way they are made. I like eastern art and modern art because usually feelings are more important than hyper realistic technique.

RG: Yes, painting should involve not only technology but also emotion.

______________________________________________________________

108 (1978, Alessandria, Italy) he lives and works between Alessandria and Milan. Among the major exponents of post-graffiti in Italy, he began his artistic research with an approach to traditional graffiti. At the end of the nineties, after moving to Milan in 1997 and graduating in industrial design from the Politecnico Milan, his stylistic figure evolved formally and conceptually, so much so that he became one of the first artists to use numbers and not letters to sign his own. works. 

His abstract forms and mysterious figures begin to appear in the abandoned spaces of the streets of Milan, Berlin, London, New York and Paris. Not limiting his production, in addition to Muralism he also ventures with sculptures, sounds, paintings and installations in dozens of personal and collective exhibitions. Among the main ones are participation in 2007 at the Venice Biennale with the Walls Inside project.

Roerf Gerbang a native of Chengdu, China, now lives and works in Shanghai and he is currently UID SH Senior Illustrator. 

A person who is a neighbor to art and skateboarding, usually like play skateboarding and painting, he love good stories, good weather, good coffee, and good wine.

______________________________________________________________

Contact:

108:

http://www.108nero.com/

Instagram:

Round #04

Petra Rocca: PR

Alice Daneluzzo: AD

Petra ask questions, and Alice answer

PR: So, I wrote down some questions, I wanted to give a direction to this interview but maybe, under these circumstances, I prefer to ask you about yourself. I am not able to program anything right now, and you?

AD: No, I can’t plan too, but I feel in a position of fragility, in which having a general idea of a hypothetical tomorrow could help me. For now I'm not looking for it spasmodically. I believe that at some point it will become compelling. I know, I know, doing things out of need rarely brings positive surprises.

PR: We are not the kind of people too productive, right? but how do you consider your artistic production?

AD: I guess you are not only referring to be productive in this quarantine period... we assume that I do not consider my production as artwork, but as a videomaker I also consider what do I do to live as a constant research for something that is not immediately visible. So, whatever I do is part of my artistic research and my artistic research is not necessarily production, it involves a lot of time and often does not lead anywhere. sometimes there is a urge to communicate something and it starts a series of dynamics more or less easy to manage, which push us to go deeper and try to encapsulate the meaning of what I discovered out of a readable form.

Basically, the artistic urgency is the need to understand, for me. Sometimes studying is not enough to understand, you have to do something. Once, in an interview on commission, one person said a beautiful thing: “going to the bottom of things and looking at the particular means studying, discovering means applying those things to a more general sense instead” So, while you are researching in detail by studying, you’re setting to the universal by exploring. Opinions and points of view of someone else in my work are fundamental, of course. I am a “voyeur" (laughs) I observe, rework, till I stick deep in the gaze of those in front of me, I do not give particular value to me reprocessing things. Sometimes, however, being able to explain things to myself, means saying them out loud.

PR: So communication is important to you. I can presume that communication is as important as the relationship with other people in your work. How do you fit into the community, for example in the Teste Toste project how did you interact with people how would you do it?

TT_headlines, 2015

AD: Teste Toste is just a good example of explaining things out loud, you can do it alone against a wall or you can do it with a person who contradicts you and generates growth. It was a cycle of informal meetings in which people, artists, thinkers, activists were confronted on complex and transversal themes. It aimed to be an opportunity for exchange and meeting, which we are not always given, to be able to practice serenely some confrontation in a horizontal dialogue, without teachings or hierarchies. It was a space born from a profound urgency of relationship and exchange, but not of formalization.

One of the favorite concept that I encountered in TT and is present in my work is the idea of “keeping space”, making room for certain experiences, feelings or perspectives that want to be recognized and affirmed, that otherwise could be put aside or whisper and slip aside and get lost. I always liked to observe and listen to how these experiences grew together with mine and not thanks to mine.

Wall of femme, TESTE TOSTE background portraits, 2016

TT is a project that I would like to redo, which however had a contingency of time and space, probably now there is still a need to be together, to exchange ideas and exchange opinions. Perhaps above all to be together, of opinions and verbal exchanges now, in quarantine, there are too many, we still have to explain a lot of things!

L.SCARMONCIN,  TESTE TOSTE  project, vol. 1.1, BUGIARDINO DI ANARCHIA RELAZIONALE

C.SFREGOLA, TESTE TOSTE project, vol. 1.2, JIM MORRISON ERA UNA SGUALDRINA

Exchange is always fundamental for me, I would never want to create an unique communication channel. Even with Melmaridè, which is a documentary film, therefore it lives its own life, for me the exchange with the public after the screening, their stories, their impressions is very important.

Even being part of TOMBOYS DON’T CRY, the parties, the clubbing, the experience as a DJ, the Tatiana Cuoco workshop, they are all opportunities to generate meeting, exchange, new ideas, new perspectives.

Tatiana Cuoco Workshop | A collective experience of AI-assisted conversation, hosted by TOMBOYS DON’T CRY , 2020

For me, spoken language and thought language are very important, so I would never stop chasing them.

The thing that would interest me now is to produce more. Learning while doing.

Tatiana Cuoco Workshop | A collective experience of AI-assisted conversation, hosted by TOMBOYS DON’T CRY , 2020

PR: TOMBOYS DON’T CRY is the collective we are both part of, what do you feel you take from this and what do you leave behind?

AD: With the TOMBOYS DON’T CRY collective, I share and support most of the ideals, points of view, aspirations and expectations. Within it I learned and learn new and vital methods. I take a new way of approaching fundamental issues for me. Dafne (Boggeri) has always been a very important human and artistic reference for me. In Milan it was definitely my first afflatus.

TOMBOYS DON’T CRY, 2018/2019

“The suburban girls are the future” by TOMBOYS DON’T CRY 

PR: How do you exist in the city where you live, how has it changed you and how have you changed it?

AD: I have a strange relationship with Milan, because it was part of my past and it was very different when I left her, at the end of the 90s, and when she returned to my present 10 years ago, I also was very different. Now Milan represents the place where my emotional network is rooted, it is a great source of stimuli for my career and training critical antagonistic spirit above all, because I do not accept a lot of aspects and I oppose to a lot of issue of this city and that definetly teaches me to reaffirm what is important for me every day.

You can really arguing with this city. If I wanted to say that Milan returned me something, I could say that it gave me back the critical spirit and self-indulgence, because Milan is not indulgent at all with people and here you have to learn how to be so for yourself.

Petra and dusk, 2019

In general, if I changed something, trying it, I didn’t notice it. No, I haven’t changed anything. Maybe I would say that Milan hasn’t changed me but it wouldn’t be true. Change-Me l’anus.

(laugh)

PR: Do you think about tomorrow?

AD: Yes, at least … I think about tomorrow at least a dozen times a day. But now that I smoke fewer cigarettes I think of tomorrow, you can say... 5 times a day. Whenever I smoke a cigarette I think of tomorrow.

PR: I close with a Survival question. You have to leave everything and go away, you can choose an object, a means or a destination. What do you choose and how do you feel?

AD: I will bring spare panties and a toothbrush, it has already happened to me and they are the only things you really miss when you’re out and about in the future.

The feeling I could summarize it in one sentence: “Oh no, not again!”

(Laughs)

The gaze, out of focus, 2020

PR: In reality it was not my last question, do you feel you are surviving, today with what we are experiencing? What is your position compared to the time we are living in?

AD: So, for me what we are experiencing is an alternative. It is not a surviving or not surviving, we all try to survive always, everyone does what they can.

I am living it as another way of living the days, so .. I don’t know.

New tools are formed, priorities are re-evaluated, but also no... I don’t know. What I know is that there are waves of different sensations and approaches even during the same days so it is very difficult to give an univocal reading of the situation of how it feels. Maybe we’ll talk about in front of a beer after 10 years, if we’ll be there. A lot of very clever things will come out, hindsighted evaluations.

It was always just an illusion to be able to build something, as it is an illusion now that it said it's only a phase. If growing means losing the veil of illusions, we are all growing. If one wants to tell stories to explain reality, they can continue to do it even now. If someone is a voyeur like me, probably they will continue to look at things. In short, we remain in observation of ourselves, of others, of the world.

Collaboration: Giuliana Racco, The Limbo Party, 2020

Collaboration: Giuliana Racco, Matteo Guidi, Leish'la, 2016

PR: It makes me smile the fact that you only think of looking, but when you talk, you always have a fairly coincident point of what happens to you, a rather clear thought, when we talk about your position you express it in a very real way. You insist that you are only an observer but I think to have a very active and present information assimilation metabolism, I don’t know if you do not perceive it in such a definitive way but it seems to me that you do.

AD: My point of view is obviously interesting and I like to share it, in the sense that I like it even when it is contested because it widens, so… I simply prefer to watch, to look at what is there rather than explain or tell or invent worlds, for this I consider myself more a voyeur. But I am very aware that telling what it seen is absolutely giving one’s point of view. This is the responsibility of the gaze, for me. On the other hand, I love collaborating on projects of artist friends. I like being part of the creative process and adding my gaze and my knowledge. I love collaboration as dialogue. I am also a hoard of methods.

Videoclip, Go Dugong, Ghetto Mala, 2016

PR: But you not only have an idea, you can express a clear representation of how you live your reality. For example, when you made Melmaridé, what was for you to communicate your vision in a language as a documentary film?

AD: First of all, for me working is a group experience, it is not to be done alone. But there is a really important and fundamental solitary part in which you leave the known path and question yourself, the following step is fundamental in the practice, I think for almost every artist, and that is consist to build a will from a doubt. Find the resources to complete the project.

E.Bozzarelli, A. Daneluzzo, Melmaridè, documentary, 2018

With Melmaridè it was made possible because of an incredible team partnership with Elisa (Bozzarelli). It was a project that could have jumped a thousand times, like a thousand other projects, during its 3 years of realization, but there was the determination by both of us to consider the message we were working as fundamental, it was so important that it wasn’t got lost.

But it was a very personal job on so many different layers, so in its realization there were moments of great difficulty for both of us, for me it was when the topics I was working on the films were really at odds with my life, it was almost an inner battle between morals and ethics.

At that moment it was really a problem to realize that the feminism I supported, defended, for which I got angry and on which I reasoned during the shooting, then it was not applied at all in my daily life, and that was a very strong and very significant moment that has marked me deeply and that I hope will happen often with my works, to be projected out of the comfort zone, to get undressed, for using technical terms. Whoever is behind the camera and tells a story must get undressed, all those who tell stories can use their own narrations as they want, even to hide behind them (the stories), exposing yourself and your point of view is still an act of sincerity, but if you reveal something deeply related to yourself, then the work of you acquires a particular force, and you can recognize it very well.

E.Bozzarelli&A. Daneluzzo, Melmaridè, documentary, 2018

_______________________________________________________________________

_______________________________________________________________________

Alice ask questions, and Petra answer

PR: About that, speaking for myself I believe that my works are always driven by a personal influence, there is always something about me that I reveal both when I write and when I propose visual works, but this does not lead me to deal with what I do necessarily, in fact it alienates me even more from what I am writing, from what I am doing at that moment, from what I am communicating, as if giving a part of me to others set me automatically to distance myself.

QUELLO CHE RESTA DI ME, still from video

AD: It’s kind of an objectification process, isn’t it? Once you said it, you got rid of it, a bit therapeutic. What do you tell in your lyrics? Do you consider yourself a storyteller?

PR: I don’t think I can tell anything, they are not tales, there is no narration in what I write, I don’t know, maybe I can tell sensations, maybe I can tell moments, then in some parts of them, someone can also perceive some kind of time and space and can imagine to go through some parts of texts. I have no narrative intentions but otherwise we often seek narration while reading and maybe it's not my role to give this type of definition to my text.

NON MI BAGNO, Blade Bunner, SPRINT, 2019

AD: Who are your works aimed at?

PR: Maybe to myself, even if they are always dedications to someone else or something else.

TOMBOY LOST, still from video

TOMBOY LOST, video installation by Petra at N.0 Exhibition in Fuzao studio, 2018

It is important to bring out things, sometimes they take forms that also help me to change my mind, to take a different position. I become a reader, a user of my own works. Let’s say that my works often arise from a need without strings, and these new rules are formed around the work itself, sometimes during its development, sometimes after its finalization.

SAME SAME BUT DIFFERENT, exhibition in Studio Court, Petra + m, 2017

AD: What is your essential kit to be able to work and what do you need ideally, anything from a space to a tool?

PR: I often work with what I have around and I build my needs also according to my possibilities, when I don’t do it, I often found myself in trouble (laughs) but I think a smartphone can be enough, I can write and make notes on visual things as photos or videos, my first artworks start from this device.

I also need connections, I have worked a lot with videos found on the net and therefore a real connection, but also human connection, because as much as I struggle to communicate with others, I always need the exchange with people, even if it is not really a direct exchange, I mean, I often do not talk about my work, my intentions, but I absorb from the conversation with others or between them, everything that can help me and that I always find within my works, so... I don’t think I can isolate myself working as I’m working now, at least.

BOXEUR, still from video

AD: Are you a very disciplined and rigorous person even as your job?

PR: No, I don’t consider my work so disciplined, it escapes me like a wild animal instead and I feel very severe with this behavior, maybe too much. I experience my work as that part of me which escapes from rigor and this helps me to have a more clear vision of my mind and usually also refilled with contrasts.

 Leave my tear to drop in to the meadow, still from video

https://soundcloud.com/erica-zhang/bdcvoce-c04-online-audio-convertercom

leave my tear to drop in to the meadow, only audio

AD: Do you consider yourself a person and an artist who works on the margins, in the fringes of the community where you also lives geographically, or do you consider yourself as central, essential, fundamental?

PR: No, of course not even essential. I struggle to consider something essential, I always try to never need anything. Specifically bout art, centrality makes me a little uncomfortable. I believe that the city in which I live plays brutally with the issue but I cannot delineate the boundary that separates which is my problem from the one of the context.

Watch me do me, still from video

AD: What is a project that you would like to carry out in the future, even just as an idea, is something taking shape?

PR:  I have some works in mind, one had to stop because of the quarantine, others will remain in my head waiting for the right moment and some will be forget. It’s always like that, it’s a struggle for survival (laughs)

AD: What is the right moment?

PR: When there is the possibility of seeing it completed. Certainly the quarantine, for some reasons, had demolished many possibilities, appointments, certainties. I’m trying to put some of my works into a zine and within it I can leave them to be in the public’s hands, which I’ve never done before.

UNTITLED, still from video

AD: Your works have always been linked to an occasion such as in the case of performances or videos, which are by their nature immaterial, visible only on certain occasions. What importance does the public have in your work, what importance does it have in its fruition?

PR: Yes, in the past I did some works as performances, which interact with the public and it was important for me on a physical level because as the body is often the protagonist of my works, in that specific moments the body of the user became the means by which that protagonist fully developed and it was very important to me at the time. Now I am thinking in making this fanzine that is putting me quietly in crisis, or rather we can say in plain discussion... there is a lot of meat on the fire (laughs). I have never been able to put my works online and now I am taking up a whole series of things that I have kept only for me, for let them go, it's not easy to find the right way to communicate them.

TOMBOYS DON’T CRY collective

AD: What is it that you like to make public instead, what is easy for you?

PR: Almost nothing is easy for me, however... Certainly since I am part of the TOMBOYS DON’T CRY collective too, the musical aspect, public aspect and also the collective part, because we are still 5 people who relate to each other, taught me a lot and it gave a lot back to me, it led me towards a sharing approach that I missed. Through the parties we organize I learn another way to communicate, giving a message that is personal but also collective.

I don’t consider music as an artwork, also because i’m still not a producer, I consider it an excuse for building and sharing a common imaginary. Years ago I approached TOMBOYS DON’T CRY parties, just because there, I could experiencing that feeling about not needing to explain that everything was allowed.

It is like building a small parallel reality for a few hours, hoping that the sensation that is experienced within it expands and extends into everyday life.

For example, in this moment of imprisonment I am still fighting with myself about the importance of being with others without being physically present, in a virtual representation of something that I want to give or want to be, even if I am always fascinated by new ways to adapt to new imageries, at the moment I’m just looking.

TOMBOYS DON’T CRY collective

TOMBOYS DON’T CRY | CRUISING UTOPIA | Pride After Party | 2019

AD: On one hand you don’t want to show your work on the internet, for you it is a very private, very serious thing and on the other you use your image on social media as if it were not you. For a person who works on the body and with herself it’s like a very clear division between the image of the body and the search for the meaning of the body in one’s work. What do you think, is it a dichotomy more linked to the generation and use of the self-image for you, or is it part of a personal research too?

PR: No, I never thought about it, (laughs) it seems like a nice thought to explore, I hadn’t done it yet, at least not explicitly. So, in reality I don’t think that social media are really a way of venting for me, in the sense that I’m not so present as user, I use them of course, but I wonder a lot about my public image and obviously I think there is some sort of generational reasoning on the use of social media and the use of technologies for which I do not feel like the spokesperson, however, I am certainly influenced by it. I find that Social Networks make self representation easier than others’ gaze. As much as I can think of it, when I publish something on social media, it results just an image easy to abandon. For everything related to my work, instead, which obviously has a different shape, I find it very difficult to abandon it, to feed it to others. I’m aware of using my image as a bait on social media, like “there is something I’m not saying, let’s play” and I don’t know if it’s the medium that taught me or if I use it in this way, maybe both, but it amuses me thinking to know other's secrets just because I know their fictions.

AD: Do you prefer to work alone or work with someone?

PR: I always start from something that I don’t know if I can call it a reflection, something that after becomes a reflection but it starts from an outlet; I usually take out the phone and write, ok?! I always start from an intuition or a personal need.

“but then it will be true that we are united?” “it is not for these objects to respond”

Petra + m

However, as I said before, I found myself to be better able to stratify my work with other people, on one side there is the collective TOMBOYS DON’T CRY, on the other side there is m, who is an artist with whom I have collaborated and whom I respect and who always helps me a lot, I think we help each other. By working with her as a couple I can better discover myself within her eyes and through her work which is ours, I don’t know how to say it. So in collaborating with others I also find an ignition to act, I am much more destructive alone about my thoughts. Obviously it can’t be done with everyone, but I felt growing a lot in sharing, even if my work always starts from a personal and private analysis.

LADDER, performance, at N.0 Exhibition in Fuzao studio,  by Petra+m 2018

AD: Come on! answer the survival question! 

PR: I think I would choose a backpack, a backpack with what I need inside, important things, such as a smartphone. However, it is a very difficult question, perhaps for this reason that in the best evacuation instructions they always suggest not to bring anything with them, so as not to have to choose.

_____________________________________________________________________

Alice Daneluzzo

Lives and works in Milan, she is a videomaker by training and transfeminist by adoption, deals with video narration, especially documentary, but extends her research to many other languages and narrative forms. She collaborates with international artists and is part of the queer collective TOMBOYS DON'T CRY.

Petra Rocca 

Was born on 9th of November, she graduated in Visual Arts at the Brera Fine Arts Academy in Milan, Italy.

In her research, she explores proximity and relationship, within constant cross-references to the body, which is not always present.

Using video, text, audio e performance experimentation, she is interested in the complexity of intimacy and its consequences.

Round #03

Erzhuo：EZ

Ti Re Zhong ：TRZ

Erzhuo ask questions, and Ti Re Zhong answer

EZ: It is exactly one year since I first saw the clay ear decoration you made, because this is a nickname that I have been called since primary school. Every time I see your IG update, I feel like I (?) in cue. . Originally is a small, then into a large wing, and jump on the screen, my ears want to hear your ear story.

TRZ: Hahaha, I call you again and again. In fact, the first ear story came from a small story in the picture book four stories.

"Became ears" 

Here is an ear that lives in a shellIt said, 

"speak to everything by day and come back here at night to become your own ears."

You see the moon has become an ear

The ears go from lying in the shell to the wings on the back, which is like a process of enlarging and shrinking oneself.

"Became ears" series by Ti re zhong

EZ: Ears ask: why ears?

TRZ: I think ears are very fragile, sensitive and soft. In the story, I use "ears" as a metaphor for myself. The ears are full of secrets about breathing, growth, and love, like whirlpools that go round and round and then sink. Put one ear to the other during the night and listen: “ sasasa... he start to telling a story.”

“Ear’s wings” by Tirezhong

“Ear moon” by Tirezhong

EZ: Were your first art works three-dimensional or planar?

TRZ: Most of them are flat, and usually at the beginning of a story I might make them have text, and then a picture. Or just have a picture. When I get used to doing something one way it lasts a long, long time, like my breakfast with the same ingredients and the same way for months without getting sick. I don't know if that's good. But now I will consciously think about how to present when I leave the plane. Also try to cook your usual ingredients in a different way.

"Making Love" series, by Tirezhong

“A broken ear” by Tirezhong

“Ear butterfly”by Tirezhong

"The spread of fire"

“Unknown name fire”

EZ: We gave each other old toys before, I'm really happy that you like the old toys I gave you! I've never seen any of the rabbits you received. When did you become interested in old things? Does your clay work have anything to do with the cute toy you bought?

TRZ: I remember when I was a child, I would not play with toys, it seems that after going to Japan, see there are all kinds of small toys is simply too cute, yes! Yeah, that's when I started noticing that I was interested in toys with emotional expressions. My clay works also have expressions, but most of them are sad and cry like me, hahaha.

"Clay" Series by Tirezhong

EZ: When I was in Beijing last year, I was honored to see the comics you created after your graduation. The slow-paced narration is very nostalgic, sentimental and gentle, which arouses my sense of nostalgia and reminds me of my childhood. I'm not good at telling stories, so I was curious why I chose comic books as the narrative.

TRZ: The picture book story is about my understanding of death. It is made up of eight short stories. They represent the journey of life and death by way of dialogue and travel notes. Each image of the story has a connection, starting with the earth and going back to the earth as a symbol of the cycle of life. So every picture is continuous, because life and death is a long journey.

University Graduation work, comic strip book by Tirezhong

EZ: Your paintings are so tender and lovely! (again, I was attracted to traits I didn't have.) Talking to you before feels like you're avoiding the hurt of some negative emotions and choosing to see the cute side of things. Do you have trouble creating? And if so, what?

TRZ: I think most of my works are full of sad emotions. For a long time, I don't like to accept my negative emotions, which is just like partial eclipse. However, my body will become unhealthy after a long time. Later let oneself get used to slowly a mouthful of eat it. In fact, it is easy for me to encounter difficulties hahaha, I will stop first, maybe not continue for the next few days, or to do another work, but in my mind will continue to work it, the rest is waiting for them to knock on your door.

Some Zine made by Tirezhong

EZ: You took me to appreciate the Sichuan flavor of the dirty words, enriched my words to express emotions, here to offer sincere thanks! Your personality jumps back and forth between the angel and the devil, the devil of the angels and the angel of the devil. How do you incorporate this quality into your work?

Hahaha you are an walking Xinhua dictionary, I dare not offend the angel! I think it's because of my character, I can't hide my secret, so it is naturally exposed in my works.

“Ears” by Tirezhong

“Cochlea” by Tirezhong

EZ: I heard that you had the good fortune to meet a good teacher at your university. Do you miss the time you spent as a student and a friend, creating works of art? Now do you want to go back to school and study again?

TRZ: Really, I was really really lucky! She taught me how to tell a story and how to express my emotions. I also want to stand on the balcony of the dormitory with my friends and admire the green hillside. I don't think "further study" is the right word for me. I am still eager to learn, but now I want to learn and experience life in my own surroundings and activities.

“Park” photo by Tirezhong

EZ: As the brain only has the ability to cope with a single core processor vegetable chicken newbie want to know: how do you allocate your work and art creative time?

TRZ: Now I'm unemployed again, and in my old job I really just took time out of my work to make art. Sometimes I feel that I need to separate myself. When I am working, my head is still relatively free to think about some works. The rest of my work is to squeeze time from work.

Photos by Tirezhong

EZ: It's a digression：do you deliberately separate your private life from your public life?

TRZ: My public life is actually quite few, I almost live in their own private life, I feel no need to deliberately, they can be separated naturally..

___________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________

Ti Re Zhong ask questions, and Erzhuo answer

TRZ: Was there anything that changed your understanding of death during the months of being trapped in Wuhan by a novel coronavirus outbreak?

EZ: Really rarely talked about this topic, maybe because at the beginning of the epidemic? The air was suddenly heavy and hard to save. Must say that the words is "Those who come are fickle, those who die are helpless."

All of a sudden, I’m using these rhetorical words, feel a little uncomfortable, but I can't find a better word to say. I have neither experienced death also don't know understand death. The only feeling during the Covid-19 epidemic is to cherish life? Life is borrowed and must be given back when it is due.. I want to experience more of what I've never done before my physical and mental capacity declines permanently，want to experience more of both physical satisfaction and self-actualization (what a greedy adult :P). Then give it back (life) when you've used up.

“Before the outbreak of the coronavirus, this cat often visited my balcony to see me”, picture by Erzhuo

TRZ: During the Covid outbreak, you were not allowed to go out. Did you often look out of the window at home? Did you see anything or anyone that impressed you?

EZ: In my memory, I often looked out of the window of my apartment during the early period of Wuhan's city closure. Unfortunately, I was not used to it at the beginning, and it was not until half a month later that I finally opened my mind. This is a desensitization process in essence, because my apartment is just down the road, I would look out the window every day and see the supermarket replenishment across the street, they get their stock three times a day. 

Occasionally I was restlessness and anxiety when the supermarket delivery truck arrives an hour or two late.

Because go out NG, the biggest goal of life - - pick up garbage natural NG (NG means blooper, is a short clip from a film or video production, usually a deleted scene.) I'm not sure I'd pick up some lethal virus and come home and... At that time, I could only watch the staff in the opposite supermarket coming out to throw garbage. They are usually packed in cardboard boxes and vegetables. Once they threw out and sold leftover, not fresh vegetables, and two yellowed broccoli dropped miserably out of the trash can and rolled out onto the road, the urban wild animals are all walking sideways on the road, the days of quarantine are so long that even the dog forgets the car and should to get out of the road.

That scene was so sad, so love tenderly, it hit me right in the heart, like a mother's love flood + my addiction be poked in. Really like to be discarded rotten things, my heaven is like that.

“Broccoli discarded by supermarket staff” photo by Erzhou

In fact, in the end I always stayed close to the computer screen window. Like an old internet diver, the traces left by netizens who have desperately squandered their vitality have always made me remember deeply.

TRZ: It feels like you're really good at playing with yourself. After spending a lot of time with yourself, do you sometimes feel like leaving or doing something that doesn't really matter to you?

EZ: I love to play with myself should be the constellation theory of the pot, I do not back.

Plus,, when I'm alone, I sometimes laugh like an intermittent maniac. I'm scared. What about you? In Hangzhou, which is a more peaceful place than Beijing, Shanghai and Guangzhou, I have been spoiled by myself and become a social misery, well.. like leave a message or profess privately to someone I like him.. Usually, the percentage of time I have fun with myself is very high. the appearance is rigid, my inside like mild on the outside but wild on the inside (it's me), the treatment alone actually quite contradictory. I never wanted to leave my private time, but I would also like more communication.

Erzhuo accidentally collected a cheap ring when looking for work material

Parts of our ring kingdom project

Once I have chosen to do something, can I not be considered irrelevant to me? (If I am forced to do it, maybe it 's better to get out of me.) I will do it if I have a connection with this thing that we can not easily disconnect. The thing I've always done is to finding myself, and I'm very proud for this, during the epidemic, I did something that had nothing to do with art (like starting to look together CP with my half brothers).

Also, for example, when I wrote something, I find that my level of Chinese language was terrible, and then I started reading some books that helped me to extend my personality; or I was drawing something I like, it turns out that the structure is also very important, not the corruption of the academic formula in the taste of rot. It is therefore I think it is necessary to disable my autism mode from time to time.

Now let's go back to the discussion: recently, I always thought this phrase "people have always been alone, but in the depth of solitude and are closely connected", and I was unable to detach from this mode ... and therefore, I think I could still have fun with myself for my life remains.

TRZ: When I saw your works for the first time, it seems to me that they were a bit aggressive. The things that made me feel aggressive, were they produced in a state from you wanted to protect yourself?

EZ: Yes ah. (Stand hand) My heart occasionally longs for the bold character of the Zuan people (The Zuan people refer to a group of people in the "League of Legends" game. They speak very rudely and also have a bad temper. When they opened their mouths, they can immediately annoy other players, and this kind of people are "zuan people").

It was a long time until now that I finally found out, maybe my memory is too good in certain things, it's never enough to keep away from some past things. from my childhood people has always been laughed at me in an enigmatic way, they said my mood was always at the height of adolescence (laughs). Also quite good.

Some people know the world from the front, and others from the back. I belong the second. Recently, I have found this to be very common. Who are not strong in self-protection are actually a bit problematic, and the forced transformation of Buddhist-style people is also a compromise for life, the people and some things around you will benefit from a weak point in a not-positive way to stimulate you and instinctively make you generate passive protection mechanisms. Probably in this context, I was discussing with myself how to balance those correct and absurd errors, and how do I, if in the situation when you don't realize, don't become an obscure, cheap and harmful accomplice. Now I still very care these arguments, I feel that these things can confuse me all my life. I know, those works that make aggressive sense were ideas basically secreted antibodies? even they don't have the theme, it has to do with the things I said before, but the inner emotions are still evident.

The Erzhuo work series "Valentine's Day" exhibited in prsntsnt 

TRZ: When you finish working an opera and look at it after a while, do you try something special? Do you want to delete and edit again?

EZ: I usually feel embarrassed and ashamed when I look at works from the past, No matter how often I looked at the contents of my work (very personal) or a very intimate work, I still remember the causes and consequences that happened at that moment, It's like it was yesterday, so I often sighed: the childish confusion that I brought from my mother's womb is really the same, and it hasn't even changed a bit. It's unbelievable, If the motivation for creating a work of art is enough simple, so cancellation and modification will never turn to me.

Untitled, partial by Erzhuo

Even when you talk about having self-confidence is important? Many concepts in my current age group have not been fully rooted, only with intuition, can you feel that some intangible things in life and works are gradually forming by intuition and the ability to give intangible and tangible skills gradually increases with knowledge.When everything is unfinished, it is impossible to say old and particularly powerful words in this context. (For example, it's not bad to say something rebellious and flamboyant during adolescence.)

Mein Fruhlingbrise du, Du mein Sommerregen by Erzhuo

TRZ: Do you have any habits when creating? Usually, how do you construct your work?

EZ: The word "construction" I remember academic education in the school. Before I graduated, I returned my theoretical and practical knowledge, and my utilitarian and reputable hearts I closed them all in the drawers of my old class.

The process of forming the work is so abstract ... in the end it always became just a meeting of sharing personal experiences (laughs). The motivation is to regularly download my personal emotions through the exit from my work of art? I always felt that the inspiration and the corresponding expressions were born: when I walked, I imagined, and instead when I had free time, and I rehearse.

Erzhuo's habit of creation.

Then I became very fast and my energy concentrated on the aesthetics that interest me, and the related contexts, and rain and dew do not exist. if there were no technical problems I worked not too slow, because the inspiration disappears if I don't finish it quickly, and it is very difficult to sort the semi-finished waste extracted from the soul.

Siick series by Erzhuo

TRZ: Will you repeatedly question yourself during the artistic creation process? How would you relieve anxiety?

EZ:  Absolutely, I chose to use (artistic) creation to find myself again, because compared to other ways, by creating art I can get the maximum fun, the damage is getting lost and collapsing easily. Being human is unexpectedly complex: I have always tried to discover myself with simple methods, but it has never been realized.

How to relieve anxiety

To relieve anxiety, of course, I need to be ingested nicotine (imitation is prohibited), although it is just an easy-to-use social label and intractable habits. you also need to break away from social networks every now and then.

TRZ: Online solution: you have done several part-time jobs, what are your job requests? Because I think you can change your different state very well, so I envy you.

EZ: The current job application is money (hands on the waist). When I read, novel vision of my favorite animation there is a phrase "Work, is nothing more than entertainment to maintain mental health (in the rough sense)", I burst into tears, shit, it seemed like myself.

? ? ? to tell you the truth, I can't change my state very well. I guess you never saw when I got lost like a stray dog. I feel guilty if I let my bad secondhand emotions infect others.

Chat history by Erzhuo

TRZ: I want to know, in your opinion, what is the most difficult point to get along with people?

EZ: The proportion of private and public life. And excessive communication out of control.

Now my attitude towards friendship is basically in a state where I would rather put my relationship with my friends on hold for a long time rather than start casually state.

"You come to me through all good things" by Erzhuo

TRZ: If you can become anything, what do you want to become and why?

EZ: The four-legged monitor in my CP room. Because they deserve and must be happy.

Flashlight received by Erzhuo in Guangzhou Garden District

______________________________________________________________

ERZHUO

Now lives in Hangzhou.

Usually like to pick up garbage and watch birds.

Create with visual media such as garbage and materials discarded by others, and explore the contradictory relationship between the virtual world and the physical body of real life. Indulge in making life bodies with silver metal texture. Recently focused on personal projects-ring plan.

Ti Re Zhong

Currently lives and works in Shanghai. 

Love listening to stories, telling stories and drawing stories. Each time you create art, it is like organizing your memories in a not-so-large room, and then describing them in different ways. Finally, hide in the quilt and tell yourself the story, and then tell you.

______________________________________________________________

Contact:

Round #02

Lorenzo and Guilherme have never met before, but they know each other on the internet, they usually like to chat together on Instagram.

This time, at Fuzao's invitation, they chose some fragments of their chats during this period, selected and modified these memories and showed some of their art works.

Guilherme Figueiredo：GF

Lorenzo Bellini ：LB

GF  16:31

What about you, are you ok? It’s a really freaky climate covered with disaster

LB  16:32

I'm happy to know that you are good..   also for me the indoor situation is ok we are good here in Milan, we had 36 days of quarantine I can't imagine how the situation will be after everything is over

GF 16:36

Yeah every sector/infra-structure will be fragmented But I guess the instinct will always be to   REbuild and REdo the same.   Idk if it will work I’ve been doing a little paper tower I stack one paper each day

LB  16:40

send me a pic of the progress I wanna see how it’s grown

GF  16:42

(VIDEO - 3D paper tower)

LB  16:43

I started to write a diary of these day (it’s less original)  but I felt like writing   so everyone has their methods of counting the quarantine days

Citybash series, By Lorenzo Bellini

GF 16:47

I’ll start a poll on Instagram and ask about it! See what people say! what do you think?

LB  16:49

Interesting for sure because you can discover strange things about people

PDMC series by Guilherme Figueiredo

LB 16:44  

I would like to see your spot like your desk or another place

GF 16:46 

I didn’t have a desk in my room. I used to work on an atelier, so this is kind of the only way I have

(VIDEO - 3D Guilherme Desk)

LB 16:47

woww!! very cool my spot is pretty dark.

(VIDEO - 3D Lorenzo Desk)

GF 16:31  

Fungal Fantasy, wow it’s actually a great name

LB 16:31  

it’s a fantasy about fungus (mushroom)

Trashdraw series by Lorenzo Bellini

GF 16:32  

Well yeah. Might as well be an rpg with a Covid like virus spreading through the world

Ooohhh yeah we can 3D render some of your sculptures. They would be such good apocalyptic type of characters

LB 16:35  

it would be a pleasure!

Lorenzo's work table at his studio in Milan

and the hype for animal Crossing? what do you think? For many people that game is the real escape from quarantine. hahaha when you learn how to code let’s make it! Fungal Fantasy 

 Container drawing by Guilherme Figueiredo

GF 16:36

Animal crossing. My god yeah it makes total sense. I wish I had it. I think the hype makes sense. You can go outside in the game and it’s beautiful the outside inside of the game, have you seen it?

LB 16:38  

Yes I saw some random images but I never tried it.. but I really liked your analysis “the outside inside of the game”. Many people that I know that play, have met each other or made a party inside the game.

GF 16:49  

Yeah we are all in the same state obviously Ooh show me some figurines!

LB 16:50  

my collection.. okay it’s a little one

(VIDEO - 3D Lorenzo Diorama)

I had a particular interest for modalism and small objects or scaling object 

GF 16:54  

Yeah I noticed on your work 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊

Burn by Lorenzo Bellini

LB 22:59

Also I'm really in love with this sculpture of yours.

Half-Life’s Gordon in the flesh by Guilherme Figueiredo

GF  23:00

Ah I felt the same about you and your work. There’s magnetism I agree Yeah ! It’s from an installation I did last year Thank you!! It was a lot of fun that piece. I love when my work makes me laugh in a way

LB  23:06 why is it funny?

The dolls made by Lorenzo

GF  23:07

It was mainly the movement of the roombas There was two characters and they would go against each other And its “unfinished” state makes me giggle I guess

by Guilherme Figueiredo 

LB  22:43

so what you think about our discussion are you satisfied?

we had much more than 10 sentences

you prefer to make another session more specific for the project?

I like this one because it’s very natural.

Dollwood by Lorenzo Bellini

“Arqueologia Virtual” series by Guilherme Figueiredo

GF  22:48

[Shhh] well yeah I’m satisfied but how would we go about it? Yeah I liked it too But how can we curate this? Maybe we can edit and chop it up a bit? Hmm...Or select a fragment maybe..

But honestly I kind of forgot about the project midways haha..

LB  22:51

hahaha me too...but this was my expectation. Have a free conversation with someone that I didn't know. but I felt some common thing with you that inspired me confidence okay I wrote to the curator

______________________________________________________________________

Guilherme Figueiredo

Lives and works in Lisbon

Finishing a masters in Visual Arts in Caldas da Rainha. Works on concepts of game and gaming and how the structures and layers of play in the world work in contrast with the seriousness of some scientific and pragmatic knowledge of the world’s history (speed on the archaeological process, evolution of the species, gambling and luck, computer programming, etc).

Lorenzo Bellini

Lives and works in Milan.

Sculpture and assembly are the practices he prefers, the method with which he works within these two practices is inspired by the stratification and concretion of the material. What feeds his work and his research is the exchange between producer and consumer.

Contact:

Strongman ask questions, and Xiao longhua answer

SM: Strongman

Longhua: Xiaolonghua

Sm: Before and after the new year of 2020, in addition to moving to a new apartment and staying at home, doing the qurantine for the COVID-19 epidemic, have you created the new works? In 2020 do you have plans to create new fun exhibitions and new editorial projects?

Longhua: Well, The biggest creation this year should be the renovation of my apartment. The new publication project is the "great migration" catalog, and at the moment, with the designer Bai Kui, we are preparing the design plan for the catalog.

In addition to this, following the latest conceptual book "The blind man who touches the elephant" of 2019, we are also working on a new book "Kuafu chased the sun".

Conceptual book "The blind man who touches the elephant"

During the Covid-19 epidemic, I also participated in the creation of the Yanshu book project "Never Ending".

The “Great migration” series installation

Sm: You graduated from the Oil Painting Department, you said you don’t wanted anymore to paint in oil and the human body after graduation. Can you talk about the advantages and disadvantages of university education in China and why are you so opposed to these test-based education methods?

Longhua: I speak “me”personally, I don't like the outdated educational method and the occlusive atmosphere of the Chinese Academy of Fine Arts, I believe that anyone who has studied art in China has the same experience. After seven years of so-called disciplinary training, when I arrived at university, I thought about the previous model of utilitarian education, which was training on "technology", but education on "aesthetics" was far from sufficient.

The painting by Xiaolonghua 

With the opening of the market and the opening of my point of view, this educational method became even more obsolete, therefore, after three years of study on oil painting, I have a profound prejudice against this method. I could not be creative freely in class and I had to conform to the "classic" unified format, the same as everyone else.

Sm: You have collected countless large monsters and small monsters(Sm means toy monster). I remember that you are always demanding about certain shapes and have formed your own unique toy aesthetic. How does the training and collection of these toys influence your art creation?

Longhua: The main range of my monster collection are monsters in special films shot by Japanese production companies such as Toho, Daiei, Shochiku and Maruya. With the deepening of the collection, in addition to the Western Harryhausen series, most of the monsters in my collection date back to the years 1954-1971.

The shapes of the monsters at that time were very special: people wore disguises to perform on the stage which purposely imitated the real environment, and the films shot when the technology was not particularly developed had a "defective" aesthetic.

Toy collections of Xiao longhua

I think that, due to the limitations of some technologies, they are more stimulating made in this way for human imagination.

In terms of style, I very much agree with Tōru Narita's three monster design principles: monsters are not demons. I don't make monsters that have so many hands, so many legs and so many heads! I don't only enlarge animals! I don't make monsters that destroy the body and disgust people!

Toy collections of Xiaolonghua

In my way of creating sculptures and paintings, I also pursue this type of modeling full of sincerity, strong vitality and imagination.

SM: You told me that you never paint erotic works. I have always been curious about why you always reject this theme?

Xiaolonghua: I haven't specifically refused, but I'm not good at drawing them. There are hardly any female figures in my creations.

Sm: In general, what is your creative process? What details strike you to make a work and series of works?

Longhua: After years of artistic creation, I gradually formed a set of my creative methods.

1.Collecting materials I usually went to different markets every week, in the antiques market, the grocery market and the home appliances market, and occasionally I went to some demolition sites, where everyone collects creative materials and I find inspiration, except for the materials that can i buy. Furthermore, physical participation, interaction with the outside world and the rich market environment have an impact on my artistic creation. While walking on weekdays, I also paid attention to the ground or what people left on the road.

2.As the material accumulates, I like to dialogue with it and let the objects acquire a strong personality and create new relationships through me which I do as a bridge. Slowly the works "Assorted", "Great Migration" and others have formed. I will spend a lot of time in the studio studying and manipulating these objects, leaving some relatively satisfactory combinations.

The “Assorted” series installation

3.When I am relaxed, I draw some sketches, but in the process of combining materials, several times, I do not completely follow the sketches, I assemble them according to the intuition of that moment. At this point, I try again and again. Each part of the child represents a portion of the whole, which is why it can bring me a lot of satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment.

Sm: It has always seemed to me that you are the type of person who organizes life well also with regard to artistic work, in a very orderly way, so that most of your works do not have many references to the chaos that I see outside . Why do you divide these two things so clearly?

Longhua: The area I live in is one of the most vibrant areas in Shanghai. In fact, in this type of scene, it is inevitable to deal with various people, on which I place my daily gaze.

Xiao longhua’s studio in Shanghai, China

The types of movies and TV series that I love to watch also represent people's daily lives. But when I create, I have to transform this everyday life to make it separate from reality. Only under the constant heating of the flames of life and reality, for example, can the hot air balloon of artistic creation "float".

SM: I wondered if you had ever encountered any difficulties or frustrations when creating art. In this case, can you give an example?

Longhua: The artistic creation process for me is just a search for yourself. You are very frustrated when you discover that your artistic creation is limited and not completely and perfectly connected with yourself. I often encounter many obstacles when I explore outside my habitat, but these parts must be slowly digested by me and will not be visible to everyone.

SM: After your 35 years, you have a sense of having wasted or lost something? Have the various expectations of your youth changed along with changes in life?

Xiaolonghua: When I played basketball, of course, I felt a decline in fitness and that occasionally made me very depressed. Compared to the impulses of being young where you run on the street, I am now pursuing a path along a slow stream, leaving me more time to think and absorb, with the ambition to become more and more precise.

SM: Haha, you have a bottle of "thousand year old water" at your house, every time I go to paint you always tell me that you haven't changed it for many years. Do you think you still keep it now that you've just moved?

Xiaolonghua: "the thousand-year-old water" can reduce color saturation very well, I could use it to draw the color shade I like. But recently I haven't used acrylic anymore, so "the thousand year old water" is dry as a "millefeuille".

SM: I remember one year ago you still refused to enter the world of the Internet, you used your super old phone as a communication tool. Now it seems that you too are trapped in the quagmire of smartphones, always "like" in the posts of friends on social networks. What impact does the Internet have on artistic creation? Will you accept live broadcasts or other interactive online ways to promote and create works?

Xiaolonghua: After my wife once had a headache, and I was unable to use the app to call a taxi, I decided to buy an IPHONE. So.., as you said, I was also trapped in the quagmire of smartphones and in the world of the Internet, and I can't extricate myself. This type of transformation is as exciting as a downhill rollercoaster.

The positive effect of the Internet on artistic creation is that you can communicate more with the outside world and also receive many inspirations. The negative effect is that when you pick up the phone, unconsciously, you switch back and forth between various social networks, and the duality of my work between outdoor space and study is somewhat modified: I am only around virtually. I have not yet found a solution to this lack of concreteness. The two do not equal. Regarding live broadcasts or other interactive online ways to promote and create works, dieri who are willing to try it, provided there is a suitable platform and interesting planning.

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Xiao longhua ask questions, and Strongman answer

Longhua: You have always been very diligent since you were a student and have always maintained your vitality and continue to create works. During this process, have you ever felt that you were unable to move forward? How do you keep your creative desire fresh?

SM: It never seemed to me that I can't stand to support anymore, I do it mainly (sm intends to draw) to make me feel happy and satisfied. At this point, I can ignore everything, without being afraid of winning or losing, and make sure that the starting and ending points are always happy. That's all.

Self-portrait, created in Sm college period

The best way to maintain freshness and creative desire is not to take creation seriously, but to play, not be too utilitarian and satisfy, just like eating, simply eating what you want today, not taking care of others what they prefer.

Langweixian, created in 2013

Spokesman, created in 2012

Over, created in 2012

Grand plans, created in 2017

Longhua: I remember that a few years later you graduated, you said that you realized that your works of art in China could not be accepted by the public. So, you had gone to Americana to face a new adventure. What are your biggest changes in recent years? What are the differences between the American living environment and the ideal environment you imagine? Which are compatible?

SM: Those years when I lived in the United States I really experienced a lot of interesting things, at that time the world of the Internet was not "flat" as it is today, and there were not so many platforms. I have seen a variety of art museums in the United States and have traveled half America with my bicycle for more than 2 months, I left San Francisco and went to New York.

On the one hand, I had a profound vision of artistic diversity, which is well beyond the sum of the books and years of visual experience that I had accumulated in school, even a little difficult to digest, on the other hand, even my mentality has become much calmer than before, that is, become more indifferent and I don't give a shit if my job will be liked by everyone.

Bus passenger series, painted in San Francisco, USA

I thought art was a "weapon" mentality, after spending a few years in the United States, art became "clothes" for me, and I only needed it. Initially thinking that there was no longer a censorship system when I went to America, I can finally criticize the social system liberally.  But I found that there are many artists in America have the same style as me. Without restrictions, suddenly i lost the motivation to create such works, after seeing many street art and naive style exhibitions, my life in America made me miss my life in China, my old environment and my home , I discovered that I would like to trace my roots back.

 San Francisco’s landscapes, sketch work

My friends and schoolmates they has became illustrators and artists in the "international popular style", but instead I hope to pursue a more primitive form of autoart.

It would be especially natural for me to form this state. There could be two reasons: one is that I am a primitive creature. The second is that I think it is particularly stupid to paint in that "international popular style", and of course I have to keep my distance from them. Life in America was truly free and the professionalism of the teachers is generally better than that of China. I predicted it, but I discovered that I am not really a person who cannot learn through professional "education".

Songhe Figure, created in San Francisco

Lobster Train, created in San Francisco

Going to university in America is just like going to high school. You cannot arrive late for the lesson (credits will be deducted). And so I had resumed my old business, I always used a thousand excuses for not going to class and not doing homework. I always went out of town and hid in the mountains and drew landscapes, or went to the body drawing workshop to draw.

Body sketching series, created in San Francisco

Longhua: You like Bruticus（Bruticus is a character who was the first combinator created by the mad scientist Shockwave in the anime Transformers series) in the Chinese civilian toy collection industry, what do you think is the real charm of the collection for you? What do you think the value of toys is? Can you choose three or five of your favorite toy collections and tell the story how they were found?

SM: Hahahhah ... what a Bruticus !! in fact, I had never seriously thought about the charm of toy collections. I'm just buying them from all over the world. In fact, if you think about it, this feeling is like the same mentality when you were a kid at the school entrance, you bought toys at a small dirty shop, felt the fun of the toy that you can buy with your money and you lacked super cool toys they are in the shop window that you can't buy with your money, so far I have not yet bought very expensive toys for my childhood complaints. The value of toys is to have fun, I enjoy playing with them, that ten millionths of a second of satisfaction of putting them on the locker in my house.

“Wild taste is hard to find” collection series

The collection processes of my many collections are particularly interesting. These memories make me think that toy sellers always said "meeting fate". This pair of small ornaments was collected in different places and in different areas about three years apart, it is absurd that they can be compatible and can only be described as "meeting fate".

 "Meeting fate" series

2. The reason why my collection is particularly different from other collectors is that my "system" I see objects everywhere, in Chinese it is said I come from the sky and to the sea, whether they are toys or instruments, with their aesthetics and their natural shapes, then I put them together, I often don't give a nothing about their material, shapes or their ages. I only care if they have something in common. Based on this, I can complete the "system" and my feeling.

 "Small Decoration" Series

3. There are some toys that I bought at random: when I bought them, I thought I can save them and give them life. For example, this "duck leg" ukulele I bought in the old flea market, at 10 yuan, The neck and head are particularly similar to a duck paw, so I have restored and repainted it, and now I can even play it sometimes.

  "Duck Leg" Ukulele

"Collection" Series

 My room, when i was in American 

Longhua: If you play music, what kind of band do you want to build?

Sm:I would like to build a band that can incite the atmosphere of the whole live house, but the music should be super strange but very beautiful, like Misfits and The cramps, I can't completely free my hormones by painting, so every time I have to let off steam on the stage. I also like Togawa Jun and Rammstein a lot, I used to sing sad songs to cry a bit :p .

Screenshot of the video I made for the band

The posters series I did for the band

Of course, I thought I was starting a band, it's just that the music is too direct to express my feelings. Especially when you play live, I'm a little shy and I'm afraid to express feelings directly between people and the public.

Longhua: Your paintings are full of porn and violence and extreme expressions of social chaos. What is the origin of this repressive outbreak? Have you had a real experience in your life?

SM: I don't admit that my paintings are full of porn and violence ... I had seriously thought about this problem. These themes can represent only 30% to 40% of the content of my work. The main reason could be that porn and violence are too impressive to people, so some foreseen perspectives think my works are only these themes, if you look better at all my works, I had also painted countless landscapes and figures, these themes are much greater of those of the sensitive theme, There are also some cute animals and comics, which are not so extreme, of course, "social chaos" was born in fact randomly, it is only a branch of my artistic creation and I gave this series a name called "evil society".

 “Evil society" series

From the beginning the first works seem to have a sense of depression and full of anger: later it was more a mapping, a mapping of absurd reality and a mockery of male creatures. I believe i’m passed the punk state in adolescence, now I am using a playful way to feel the daily life.

What is the reason for this repression? Maybe read Freud you will understand better. It is really difficult to answer, I have had various experiences in my life, I remember that before going to study abroad, I was the type of person who could not sleep at night because before had read some stupid news, and I often quarreled with others people on the internet. After returning to China for a few years, my emotions seem to have changed, they are much quieter than before, but of course I was always angry, only that, only used this negative energy in my works, not in response to my physiology.

 “Cute animals” series

Longhua: I remember from many years ago you always convinced me to go out more to sketching, can you talk to us about why sketch is essential for you?

SM: Sketch is a very mental exercise, which mainly emphasizes a sort of non-reproducible "presence". 

 “Self portrait” sketch series

If you don't paint well, you will feel the frustration you don't usually create. As if you could go back to a starting point and review your work again, the randomness and unfinished sense of drawing are also fascinating. In short, there will be many unexpected accidents that belong to you. It belongs to the moment of "relief" in creation. Our annual sketch party is a particularly good entertainment event.

“Little black bear”

 "My classmates" sketch series

 "Mother of the Galaxy" Sketch Series

 “Stupid Martin”

 "Landscape" Sketch Series

Longhua: Tell us about some unforgettable alcoholic evenings.

SM：There are too many unforgettable alcoholic evenings ... (laughs) Once I was with you and uncle Zhang Fei (friend of Xiaolonghua). After finishing attending the "Yueshi" art event in Hangzhou, after having dinner and drinking a lot of alcohol, we went back to the hotels all drunk .. You dropped your uncle in bed and then you put the skateboard on your back and you were climbed onto his back to play human surf (see photo) .. then you started making a sound in the mouth like the tsunami .. and then you dragged me to the hotel corridor to continue fighting! It was the most exaggerated moment in which I saw you drinking, while we were fighting, you were only talking Shanghainese swearing! And the other time it was in the winter, I was drinking with a big guy who comes from Shandong (a province in the north of China) after drinking half a kilo of Chinese liqueur, we both felt a bit stunned, I indicated the persimmons that I just bought in I study and I said to him: "do you have the courage to eat it ?!" because we both knew that if eating them together the alcohol and persimmon can be fatal, afterwards, however, the two of us have swallowed a persimmon each without hesitation! At the time, I really thought I could die wisely, but the next day, besides being a little stunned, we were both alive and healthy.

  "Human Body Surfing" scene

Then a more recent and fun evening was at the Singularity Art Festival in Guangzhou. I had been drinking all day and intermittently, then dinner comes with all the participants and we started a fighting game with the wheel. Subsequently, ET ordered some McDonalds the night to fill the stomach, I was too drunk .. the next day I woke up and found McDonald's chicken wings in my pants pocket? !

Longhua: What is the most joyful and frustrating thing in recent years?

Sm: It seems that there is nothing that makes me feel particularly happy, and it is not too frustrating to be depressed. I like to wrap myself up. Hahaha, I hope it can be done not to be happy but not sad ~

"Mermaid" Comic Series

                                  "Xiaoluohao" Comic Series

"Shoot star" comic series

"Rain" Comic Series

"。。。。。。" Comic Series

Longhua: Your artistic creation, the toy collection, the daily dress, the lifestyle, etc..they are a system created over many years. This system is somehow closely related to the time and space in which it is now located, but it is misaligned and distant. If you could arbitrarily choose to position yourself in any space-time coordinate, how would you choose?

SM: Yes, I think that you too, like any artist, you guys have own aesthetic creation system, which is consciously built during your artistic development. I also wonder why I tend to be so different from the environment in which I find myself, because in truth it is not so. I am willing to move the coordinates of my work back and forth. 

New series

This type of collocation has its own value that cannot be copied: when I was a child, I desperately wanted to touch comics, toys, films (animations), games and fresh rock music. I always have a sense of thirst that is unsatisfactory. These interests are also caused by the culture and history of that special period. Today, children certainly do not absorb novelties in a nonconformist way as we did. Our era has lost its taste for niche things. It no longer reflects what you want, everything is already ready and you frantically swallow it. By dint of "ruminating" we have lost the desire to taste. Who knows in the future which monsters will be regurgitated by this indigestible and continuous way of binging.

New series

Longhua: Everyone will have a special year in 2020. How did you spend the time when the new coronavirus was raging? What are your plans after this?

SM:I can’t play basketball because of the epidemic. I closed myself at home and painted every day, when I was tired of painting, playing the flute or doing sports. After that, I will produce some paper books or zines. I will make some other toys this year. An animated film of over 4 minutes, I hope to do a fun show (I have to wait as the epidemic evolves),  outside of painting I'm too lazy to do everything, I'm passive, so please, give me a kick in the ass.

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Xiao Longhua Born in 1982 in Shanghai, and now working and living in Shanghai. Works refer to paintings, devices, comics and sculptures. Xiao Longhua's works focus on exploring the interactions and possibilities of new creations between materials based on their raw shapes, textures, colors and natures, and seizing the impromptu relations.

Strongman 

Currently lives and works in Beijing.

He likes to draw pictures and collect all kinds of toys.

His creative methods are mainly painting and sketching. The prototypes of his sketching and painting are basically friends and family around him, as well as people on the street and various landscapes. His creative inspiration comes from his hobbies and his daily life.

Contact:

“As the name suggests, it connects different types of things and objects continuously and can extend like a long dragon without limits.

It is like an infinite game, each participant is the protagonist. There are many types of Jiē lóng, idioms, texts, stories, causalities, as long as they can connect the upper and lower planes, they can be called Jiē lóng. "

Due to the COVID-19 impact in recent months, we are experiencing an unprecedented historical moment. So far everyone has been forced to quarantine themselves at home. Social and economic activities have been forced to stop, including cultural and artistic projects. In light of the restrictions on physical exhibitions worldwide this year, FUZAO has decided to issue a public invitation to independent artists and to propose launching a special online exhibition to support independent artists / groups / curators.

The game "Jiē lóng", will be a continuous link between the two artists and the audience that observes them, to create a sort of loop in constant evolution. In Chinese, the game is called continuous dragon, precisely because of this repetition of the internal process of the game, which however leads to an aligned series of cards.