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too much direct sunlight has weathered the cover of my copy of the edda and made odin more bisexual

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tumblr tells me this account turned 2 years old. i don't post here very often, because i don't get to work on this project as much as i would like, but today inspiration struck and i hit 10.000 words on the script (which is more of a discussion with myself at this point but things sure are taking Shape)
Gods of Death
Hel and Odin
It has been a while since I have posted something, but I have been doing a lot of reading and thinking, particularly about death. In this blog I want to look at Hel and Odin, who share some traits as gods who collect the dead, but who seem to be working in opposition to each other. Hel is an outsider just like her parent Loki. She is a jötunn (âgiant, glutton, overeaterâ) born in Jotunheim, and a force of chaos and destruction, as opposed to the Aesir/Vanir, who mainly seem to be forces of creation and order. Odin, as god of war, however, does not shy away from causing a little chaos and destruction, but then, Odin is also of jötunn parentage.
Hel is described by Snorri as being half a corpse, monstrous like her siblings Fenrir, the giant wolf, and Jormungand, the giant serpent, but unlike them she takes a human form. The gods receive a prophecy (Prose Edda, Gylfaginning) concerning Lokiâs monstrous offspring, and Odin has them brought from Jotunheim to Asgard. Jormungand is thrown into the sea, Hel is made ruler of the underworld, but Fenrir is fostered in Asgard. Why does Fenrir get this treatment? Perhaps simply because Odin likes wolves (he already has two pet wolves, Geri and Freki), or perhaps because he thinks the wolf will be an asset to him, as his dead warriors in Valhalla are. Hel is not given a place at Asgard, and she seems to be as much a prisoner of the underworld as she is its ruler, which to me suggests that the other gods see Hel as a danger to them. I think Hel embodies death or death of the gods. She is a harbinger of doom, and omen of Ragnarök. She is the daughter of Loki, after all, and Angrboda (âharm-bidderâ, âbringer-of-sorrowâ). What with Hel being half a corpse, she is a visible reminder of that which we will all one day become. The Norse gods are not immortal, and I think especially Odin is afraid of death and/or losing his mind, which would mean losing all the knowledge and experience he has gained (in Gylfaginning he says he is afraid of Huginn and Muninn not returning to him). On his wanderings, Odin queries spirits and jötunns about the afterlife and his own and his sonâs demise. Is Odin trying to cheat death or to put it off as long as possible? He lets people who have died live on in his hall. These people make up his army that he will use to fight against the forces of death/chaos at Ragnarök. Hel could be a personification of death coming to stop Odin before he discovers the secret to not dying.
Before they are brought to Asgard, Hel and her brothers never harmed the gods, so by taking them from their home and banishing and chaining them, do they not have a hand in fulfilling the prophecy? If Hel is death, she cannot be killed, only temporarily ignored or warded off. Is this why the best thing Odin can do is to make her ruler of the underworld? She does not die and disappear there, but it seems she cannot leave either. She can still influence the other realms, though her influence only extends to taking in the shades of those who have died of old age and sickness.
What is this place Hel is made ruler of? The sources contradict each other. According to some, it is located under Niflheim (âPlace of Mistsâ). In Baldurâs Dreams in the Poetic Edda, Hel is described as being located in Niflhel. In another tale it is said to be located under one of the roots of Yggdrasil, the world tree. In any case, Hel in Old Norse means âhiddenâ, so Helheim = Hidden Place. It seems fitting that there is no conclusive answer as to where it is, because it is not for us living people to know.
Niflheim is said to have existed before anything else did. It is a cold, dark and misty place, but it is not a void, it has material, it has rivers. The water running out of Niflheim turns to ice and fills up the Void (water = a source of life). It makes sense to me, therefore, that this is the sort of primordial place where people return to after they die to become material once again. When we think of someone dying, we picture them going somewhere else, but if, like me, you do not believe in any sort of afterlife, they are in fact not going anywhere. Still, they are no longer Here with us, we canât see them or talk to them, and since Nowhere At All is kind of hard to imagine, we assume they must be Somewhere Else.
It seems to me that Folkvang, Freyjaâs meadow where she receives half of those who have died in battle, and Valhalla are just temporary stops on the way to Somewhere Else (a.k.a. Hel, the Hidden Place). Valhalla in particular sounds like some terrible limbo, a Groundhog Day/Russian Doll kind of time loop, where the fallen warriors eat, drink, fight, die and rise again the next day to repeat the same process, until the inevitable end, Ragnarök, comes. Odin keeps his guests in a state of intoxicated forgetfulness.
Like Odin, Hel has an army of dead people, but unlike him she does not seem to have amassed it on purpose. She lends the dead people to her parent Loki, who captains this army at Ragnarök. Perhaps she wasnât too happy about the fact that she and her brothers were kidnapped and then banished/locked up. Additionally, I think her function is to end everything so the cycle can begin again. Odin and the others need to make way for the next generation of gods.
If gods die, then, do they also go to Niflheim/Niflhel/Hel? It does appear to be the case. A feast is prepared in Hel for Baldur, and he goes there after he is killed by the mistletoe dart. He does not die in battle, but his death is an accident. Niflheim/Niflhel/Hel seems to be a place where ordinary people go, and where there is calm and rest. Snorri calls the being Hel cold, and uncaring about the fate of humankind, but that is just what a mortal person would say about death, isnât it? Yes, death sometimes may seem cruel and unjust, but I suppose there is equality in death, and as Neil Gaiman wrote, we all get what everybody gets: a lifetime. Hel treats everybody the same, regardless of the life they have lived. They do not have to die honourably or prove themselves in battle to be granted entry to her realm. She also ends the suffering of those who are old and sick. As distressing as it may be to us, life cannot exist without death. There are different motives that can be attributed to Odin and his thirst for knowledge. It could be a fear of death, wanting to stop the prophecies about Ragnarök becoming true, or a desire to make the most of his time in the face of his inevitable demise, or a bit of both. A relatable guy. I want to end this blog with a quote from Sayings of the High One: âCheerful and merry every man should be, until he comes to death."
Some really, really interesting points. Thank you for sharing!
Interesting points?
This whole post is one giant red flag. Iâve met non-Lokilovers who have said they consider anti-Loki sentiment a red flag forâŠ..Ya know, not good stuff.
Just a little disclaimer for people who are confused about the aim of this blog: I am not a pagan, or a heathen, I don't believe in any gods, this is not a "UPG". I am reading and interpreting the myths for my own personal entertainment, and because I want to base a story on them eventually. I have a uni degree in Old English but am not trying to write academic essays either. I do consider myself a lover of Loki, however.
Gods of Death
Hel and Odin
It has been a while since I have posted something, but I have been doing a lot of reading and thinking, particularly about death. In this blog I want to look at Hel and Odin, who share some traits as gods who collect the dead, but who seem to be working in opposition to each other. Hel is an outsider just like her parent Loki. She is a jötunn (âgiant, glutton, overeaterâ) born in Jotunheim, and a force of chaos and destruction, as opposed to the Aesir/Vanir, who mainly seem to be forces of creation and order. Odin, as god of war, however, does not shy away from causing a little chaos and destruction, but then, Odin is also of jötunn parentage.
Hel is described by Snorri as being half a corpse, monstrous like her siblings Fenrir, the giant wolf, and Jormungand, the giant serpent, but unlike them she takes a human form. The gods receive a prophecy (Prose Edda, Gylfaginning) concerning Lokiâs monstrous offspring, and Odin has them brought from Jotunheim to Asgard. Jormungand is thrown into the sea, Hel is made ruler of the underworld, but Fenrir is fostered in Asgard. Why does Fenrir get this treatment? Perhaps simply because Odin likes wolves (he already has two pet wolves, Geri and Freki), or perhaps because he thinks the wolf will be an asset to him, as his dead warriors in Valhalla are. Hel is not given a place at Asgard, and she seems to be as much a prisoner of the underworld as she is its ruler, which to me suggests that the other gods see Hel as a danger to them. I think Hel embodies death or death of the gods. She is a harbinger of doom, and omen of Ragnarök. She is the daughter of Loki, after all, and Angrboda (âharm-bidderâ, âbringer-of-sorrowâ). What with Hel being half a corpse, she is a visible reminder of that which we will all one day become. The Norse gods are not immortal, and I think especially Odin is afraid of death and/or losing his mind, which would mean losing all the knowledge and experience he has gained (in Gylfaginning he says he is afraid of Huginn and Muninn not returning to him). On his wanderings, Odin queries spirits and jötunns about the afterlife and his own and his sonâs demise. Is Odin trying to cheat death or to put it off as long as possible? He lets people who have died live on in his hall. These people make up his army that he will use to fight against the forces of death/chaos at Ragnarök. Hel could be a personification of death coming to stop Odin before he discovers the secret to not dying.
Before they are brought to Asgard, Hel and her brothers never harmed the gods, so by taking them from their home and banishing and chaining them, do they not have a hand in fulfilling the prophecy? If Hel is death, she cannot be killed, only temporarily ignored or warded off. Is this why the best thing Odin can do is to make her ruler of the underworld? She does not die and disappear there, but it seems she cannot leave either. She can still influence the other realms, though her influence only extends to taking in the shades of those who have died of old age and sickness.
What is this place Hel is made ruler of? The sources contradict each other. According to some, it is located under Niflheim (âPlace of Mistsâ). In Baldurâs Dreams in the Poetic Edda, Hel is described as being located in Niflhel. In another tale it is said to be located under one of the roots of Yggdrasil, the world tree. In any case, Hel in Old Norse means âhiddenâ, so Helheim = Hidden Place. It seems fitting that there is no conclusive answer as to where it is, because it is not for us living people to know.
Niflheim is said to have existed before anything else did. It is a cold, dark and misty place, but it is not a void, it has material, it has rivers. The water running out of Niflheim turns to ice and fills up the Void (water = a source of life). It makes sense to me, therefore, that this is the sort of primordial place where people return to after they die to become material once again. When we think of someone dying, we picture them going somewhere else, but if, like me, you do not believe in any sort of afterlife, they are in fact not going anywhere. Still, they are no longer Here with us, we canât see them or talk to them, and since Nowhere At All is kind of hard to imagine, we assume they must be Somewhere Else.
It seems to me that Folkvang, Freyjaâs meadow where she receives half of those who have died in battle, and Valhalla are just temporary stops on the way to Somewhere Else (a.k.a. Hel, the Hidden Place). Valhalla in particular sounds like some terrible limbo, a Groundhog Day/Russian Doll kind of time loop, where the fallen warriors eat, drink, fight, die and rise again the next day to repeat the same process, until the inevitable end, Ragnarök, comes. Odin keeps his guests in a state of intoxicated forgetfulness.
Like Odin, Hel has an army of dead people, but unlike him she does not seem to have amassed it on purpose. She lends the dead people to her parent Loki, who captains this army at Ragnarök. Perhaps she wasnât too happy about the fact that she and her brothers were kidnapped and then banished/locked up. Additionally, I think her function is to end everything so the cycle can begin again. Odin and the others need to make way for the next generation of gods.
If gods die, then, do they also go to Niflheim/Niflhel/Hel? It does appear to be the case. A feast is prepared in Hel for Baldur, and he goes there after he is killed by the mistletoe dart. He does not die in battle, but his death is an accident. Niflheim/Niflhel/Hel seems to be a place where ordinary people go, and where there is calm and rest. Snorri calls the being Hel cold, and uncaring about the fate of humankind, but that is just what a mortal person would say about death, isnât it? Yes, death sometimes may seem cruel and unjust, but I suppose there is equality in death, and as Neil Gaiman wrote, we all get what everybody gets: a lifetime. Hel treats everybody the same, regardless of the life they have lived. They do not have to die honourably or prove themselves in battle to be granted entry to her realm. She also ends the suffering of those who are old and sick. As distressing as it may be to us, life cannot exist without death.
There are different motives that can be attributed to Odin and his thirst for knowledge. It could be a fear of death, wanting to stop the prophecies about Ragnarök becoming true, or a desire to make the most of his time in the face of his inevitable demise, or a bit of both. A relatable guy. I want to end this blog with a quote from Sayings of the High One: âCheerful and merry every man should be, until he comes to death."
someone i know did a panel webshow about the sagas that had a good introductory episode about this, i believe they have bibliographies in their descriptions: https://youtu.be/QhZZ7dowCq8 -m
THANK YOU :)

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i studied old norse literature in university and a concept that i think you may find interesting is that the norse had what is called a unipolar gender system. this means, rather than having two ideals, a masculine and a feminine, like most of medieval europe, norse gender had one pole and that was the feuding, warlike, honorable masculine ideal. this in and of itself isnât necessarily that interesting on its own but what it means is not only that through circumstance and deeds women could âbecome menâ but it also meant that children, unwarlike women, unwarlike men, and all old people (especially old men) all had functionally the same gender. in this way, odinâs witchcraft makes sense bc although he is largely aligned with the masculine ideal, as a god he is permitted mythic trespasses and he is able to be both old and capable and so both a man and a not-a-man (and therefore capable of not-a-man -coded magic). this concept is also alive in loki, who throughout the sagas is permitted mythic trespasses but also serves as a not-a-man, non-feuding masculine, magical figure. in a real way, lokiâs gender is âinstigatorâ and i think this makes your use of she/her for loki incredibly fun and interesting, and encourage you to also think of odin as a bigender character! -m
thank you so much for this message, this is super super interesting and i will definitely be looking into this further!! if you know of any good articles/books on this topic (and if you feel like revealing your identity ;D) i would be really grateful if you could share them! i was definitely already thinking of Odin as fluid in that regard :))))
Thoughts on Odin and the âuglyâ bits in the myths
Before I really started diving into the lore, I suppose my idea of Odin was very much coloured by Tolkienâs Gandalf and my notion of the Christian patriarch. A wise old man, understanding of everyone, and without judgement. Morally flawless. This is what I felt a god should be. The archetype of the just and noble king who always does what is right for his subjects and is never corrupted by his wealth and power is one that appealed to me when I was young, but as I grew older, I came to think this is a character that is actually awfully dull. I want to see characters struggle with life. I want to see them make mistakes and do bad things. I want to learn something from their struggle. I was intrigued to discover, then, that Odin is a much less noble, much darker figure than I had imagined him to be. When I read the myths, he often comes across as greedy and petty. He is very proud and demanding of respect, and eager to prove and show off his knowledge. There are parallels between Christ on the cross and Odinâs hanging, but I think the most telling difference between them is that Odinâs sacrifice (of himself to himself!) is purely selfish.
So, it seems, then, that Odin is a god to be feared and appeased, a terrible and chaotic force of nature, but one that could prove a powerful ally (like all forces of nature tamed to be used by humankind). If you manage to gain his favour, that is, because his love is not unconditional. He needs to get something out of it. More people to add to his army. More knowledge. More power. A fuck :)
Recently I read a very enlightening post on the âfandomificationâ of mythology on Tumblr by classicslebianopinions that I misunderstood at first. I assumed the OP was talking about adaptation. I sat down to read their reply to the question why fandomification was a bad thing, and I realized I have been approaching the Norse myths from a similar angle. When I look at all the art I have made of the Allfather, and especially of his relationship with Loki, I can see I have been trying to âfixâ them. I have made them so loving and tender :â) I guess it speaks for me that I want everyone to have a wholesome relationship (or maybe all it says is that I am a massive sap :P), but I have made them better people than they actually are. I do not like the fact that they call each other perverts for not sticking to the ideals of manhood in Lokasenna. I do not like that Odinâs sense of his own masculinity is apparently so fragile he starts spouting misogynist shit after being accused by Loki of dressing like a woman. I do not like the fact that Odin taunts and disrespects his own son Thor in HĂĄrbarðsljóð. But, Saskia, you walnut, you just said it yourself, a story about some super woke people never doing anything wrong and just having a lovely old time is going to be so incredibly dull! I must not erase parts of their personality that do not appeal to me. This is what will make them interesting and these are tools I can use to tell my story, especially since I want queerness to be a big part of it. There is shame in there, and toxic masculinity, and self-loathing. I realized I have been worrying too much about making Odin likable (i.e. morally pure! I fell into the trap!) and about redeeming him. But redemption is not mine to give anyway; that is up to the audience. It is... interesting that I apparently have this need to make my own characters Good People (perhaps because part of me thinks my art must reflect Me?), since I really enjoy rat bastards in fiction created by others. When I think about characters that have really stuck with me, there are a lot of them with really despicable traits :) but I am still able to empathise with them and love them as characters. I must trust that Odinâs humanity will be evident. I suppose one of the reasons why I have fallen in love with the supreme witch boy is the precise fact that he is such an amoral asshole, and that he is complex and contradictory and human.
Introduction
Before I start posting to this blog, I thought I would write a little introduction about myself and the Norse myths project I am working on. The final stage of âProject Odinâ (as I called the folder that contains my art and thoughts) that I am hoping to reach at some point in my life is publishing my own retelling of the Norse myths, probably in the form of a graphic novel. I am currently in the process of trying to turn this collection of separate and often contradictory tales into a logical and cohesive narrative, and fleshing out the characters, which is where this blog comes in.
Before I start, I want to point out that I am not actively practicing paganism and do not consider myself a pagan. I am approaching these stories and characters from a theoretical/philosophical/narrative point of view. I think of myself as a spiritual person, though. The pagan ways of practising religion and living do speak to me because of the strong focus on nature and living in the now. I donât know about you, but as a human living in our modern day and age, I often feel there is Something missing. I am not entirely sure it is due to living in our modern day and age, or if it is a universal feeling that has been felt by all people across all ages, but for me it is like a disconnection of sorts. I feel modern life keeps placing us outside of nature, while we are inextricably linked to it. So much focus is placed on attaining â wealth, status, fame â and perpetual growth (HI ODIN IS THAT YOU BABE??), and I feel so alienated by it. I want to try and spend more time just being and moving along with the natural cycle of things.
I was raised by atheist parents, but Christian religion still influenced my thinking and my understanding of religion. Christianity promises a better life after this life if you have been good, a release from this earth, but I donât know that I believe in an afterlife. If there is such a thing as Paradise, I believe we are in it. The earth is our garden, and I think we are meant to take in its splendour while we can, while we are here. The point Iâm trying to make is: I will try my very best to be respectful of peopleâs beliefs on this blog, and practicing pagans are definitely welcome to join in on the discussions if they want, but know that I am not one myself :)
So why Norse Mythology?
A long time ago (perhaps 10 years) I created a folder on my PC titled âProject Lokiâ. I had just seen a few Marvel films and I was intrigued by the character of Loki (okay, and in love with Tom Hiddleston). The Norse myths were not unfamiliar to me, because I studied Old English at uni, and there is a fair amount of Germanic myth in Old English literature. I went to study English Language, and Old English in particular, in part because of my love of Tolkienâs work, and I was interested in learning more about the stories that he drew on, and these strange old tales intrigued me instantly.
Something I have always enjoyed is connecting to others through the sharing and retelling of stories. I was making a lot of fanart at the time, and I wanted to draw inspiration from something that wasnât copyrighted material. I created a set of characters loosely based on figures from Norse mythology that I could use in drawing exercises to make those exercises more entertaining for myself. I would draw Loki, and sometimes Thor, each winter (there is something about this gloomy time of year that makes it easier for me to connect to these stories) and compare the drawings to that of the previous year to see how much I improved. Over the years, this project kept on evolving and expanding, and here we are.
I have a question I need to talk about! It's silly but also in all honesty... So male warriors went to Valhalla, and I recently heard that perhaps there was a similar place for female warriors, possibly Freya's Solvang. So men in one place and women in another, enjoying all the pleasures of life. Surely this must include...? Like they cannot possibly all have been bros and gal pals over there? What I'm saying is, isn't this whole setup incredibly gay?? It must've been a dream! And I'm so confused that this is never talked about. Someone wrote that the valkyries "offered sexual services", but really?? Or was that just some historians fantasy? Most of the time it's not mentioned at all. I know what I think at least :')
HELLO and thank you so much for your ask! I did some research to find out whether the dead are sent to a specific location in the afterlife based on their gender, and as far as I know, this is not the case (but correct me if I'm wrong because I have not looked at all texts!)
In VafĂŸrĂșðnismĂĄl, Odin and the jötunn VafĂŸrĂșðnir are playing a game of wits and are talking about the people who go to Valhalla.
Stanza 40 is translated by Henry Adams Bellows as "Eleventh answer me well, | [if thou knowest all] [The fate that is fixed for the gods:] What men [are they] | in [Othin's] home Each day to fight go forth?", but then I found another version that reads: "Eleventh answer me well, who issue forth from the stronghold to hack each other every day? Slaughter they choose | and ride to war sit the glorious ones in reconciliation together." Whenever a translation of the myths mention "men" in this way, I take that to mean "people" :>
Example from the same translation by Bellows: Othin spake: [44] "Much have I fared, | much have I found, Much have I got of the gods: What shall live of mankind | when at last there comes The mighty winter to men?"
Vafthruthnir spake: [45] "In Hoddmimir's wood | shall hide themselves Lif and Lifthrasir then; The morning dews | for meat shall they have, Such food shall men then find." (source)
I think anyone would agree "men" here is just an old-fashioned and gendered way to refer to humans. I am unable to read Old Norse, so I cannot say anything about the original texts, though.
BUT! If you're right, and we're gonna have to work with a division of the slain based on gender, then, yeah, my queer ass is absolutely going to refuse to believe these heroes did not fuck each other after a long day of fighting :'>