What are your thoughts on CMRI?
CMRI stands for the Congregation of Mary Immaculate Queen. They have a center near Spokane, Washington, and do outreach and ministry to Catholics who desire the Traditional Latin Mass.
For Holy Orders, they rely on bishops ordained from Archbishop Thuc, an elderly Vietnamese archbishop who ordained various bishops at one time or other. There is a reasonable doubt as to whether Thuc was in the proper state of mental health to be able to ordain.
The reason they sought out Thuc was because their first bishop was ordained by an Old Catholic of the Utrecht rite, who likely had valid orders but was not a Roman Catholic. At least with Thuc, they knew he was Catholic, even though an elderly man, who did not mind ordaining bishops who rejected Vatican II.
Not only did the CMRI bishops reject Vatican II, they believed that the popes who were responsible for Vatican II were heretics, which made them invalid and disqualified to be real popes. Therefore, from Pope John XXIII onward, they regard the Chair of Peter as vacant (âsede vacanteâ) since all these popes have taught from Vatican II.
It is known that as Thuc got older, he began to have dementia and acted out in ways that would have been completely foreign to him when he was a younger bishop. Itâs possible for a bishop to change in matters of theology, but for Thuc to reject Vatican II and begin ordaining schismatic bishops was a radical departure from his earlier years, when he was fiercely loyal to the Pope.
This is why some, even very traditional Catholics, do not accept the Thuc bishops as valid bishops, or at least question the validity of their Holy Orders.Â
On the other side of the spectrum, there are some who only accept the Thuc bishops and reject all other Bishops, even SSPX, because their bishops participated in Vatican II (like Archbishop Lefebvre) or went along with it by accepted the Vatican II popes.
My position is that I respect the CMRI Catholics as sincere people who believe they are saving the Catholic Faith in a time of 99% apostasy throughout the world, while they wait for a real pope to return to the Chair of Peter.
But in spite of respecting their faith and sincerity, I cannot in conscience agree with them or accept that they are exercising a legitimate ministry within the Catholic Church.
In the first place, they were founded as a âreactionâ movement. The holy movements in the Church which God has blessed were founded in a state of peace and tranquility, by their Founders, who wished to make a positive contribution to building up the Catholic Church.
CMRI, on the other hand, was founded by men who preached first, what was wrong with the Church and why they believed that the entire Church was in apostasy. Thatâs another way of saying that they were âpissed offâ and disgusted with how things were after Vatican II.
My question is, âHow can it be possibly that you are in a state of anger and disgust with the Church, and at the same time be in a state of peace and tranquility in your soul?â And if someone has lost the inner peace of their soul, how can they truly receive a message from the Holy Spirit which is valid, holy, and in line with the Church?
Scripturally speaking, and logically speaking, I cannot reconcile these two stances:Â
1) for someone to say the entire Church has gone over a cliff, with everyone falling away from Faith, from the Pope all the way down and yet 2) God has given us a calling from within the Church to exercise a new ministry in the Catholic Church, which supposedly doesnât hardly exist because everyone has apostated.
The claim of CMRI is to have received a calling from Jesus and Mary, from within the Church, so that they can preserve the Church--even though technically it is a Church that no longer exists.
Because if even though the Pope and bishops are in apostasy, who gives the blessing to this new spiritual movement--the CMRI? And how can the Founders of this movement be in spiritual peace?
I mean, letâs be honest. Claiming that the entire Church has apostated is like the aftermath of a nuclear war that wipes away all the leadership. And yet your movement, the CMRI, is now going to rebuild the Church from ground zero? Jesus and Mary wants you to âstart over?â
The whole concept of âstarting overâ is not Catholic--at all. It completely contradicts the Biblical promises of Jesus, to be with His Church all days, and to send the Holy Spirit to confirm the Church always in the truth (John 16:13).
At least Martin Luther and the Protestant heretics were honest enough to say that they were no longer Catholic, because the Catholic Church is apostate. They didnât pretend to say that their breakaway movement was the same thing as Catholicism. Rather, the heretics taught that there was a âspiritual Churchâ out there that was Bible believing and had always existed.
Also, the premise that the Pope can be judged as a heretic simply does not accord with Catholic teaching on the Papal Primacy. If Catholics believe the Pope is the SUPREME visible head of the Church, who can ever occupy the judgeâs seat, in order to indict him, judge him, and convict him of heresy?
There was no mechanism that Jesus left behind for this to be done. Anyone in the Church can be deposed by declarations of the Supreme Authority, except for the Supreme Authority himself. Even if we think the Pope is a heretic, and we can quote documents to allegedly prove this, no one can publicly declare him removed.
What CMRI members have told me is that they have not declared the Vatican II popes to be removed, or deposed. They tell me that by embracing heresy, these popes have âself removedâ or âself deposedâ themselves.Â
They are out of office, and invalid, and even though they have been told this, they refuse to pack up and leave the Vatican. Sorry. That is not how it works in Catholic theology. The Pope cannot automatically invalidate himself.Â
Canonically speaking, any authority figure in the Catholic Church has to be declared invalid by an outside authority. That person has a right, legally and morally, to due process of Church law. They have a right to be given a warning. They have a right to appeal that warning.
They have a right to present evidence in their defense, and be informed of the specific accusations against them. There has to be a fair amount of time between accusation, and the time that the appointed judge passes final sentence of removal from office.Â
But thereâs a catch--this process can be applied to any person in the Catholic Church, except the Pope. There is no one who can sit in the judgment seat, and remove him from office.
There is no provision, and there has never been any provision, for some Catholics living in Idaho or Washington state, to inform the pope that they have put him on trial for heresy and have sentenced that he has now âself removedâ himself from office.Â
This is what CMRI has done, and it is a non-canonical, non-Scriptural, and non-Catholic way of processing anger towards the Pope. It is not even Christian behavior, because Jesus said when we are offended by an adversary, we must go and speak to them in person (Matthew 18:15).
For these and other reason, I regard CMRI as operating in the state of schism and propagating teachings and attitudes about the popes which have no claim to validity in Catholic Faith, nor as a valid movement founded by God.
God bless and take care, Fr. Angel