Queer fans can be rather possessive about queer celebs I have seen. I kinda get why they would, but still..

I recall being in a YouTube fandom once. Two YouTubers were speculated to be dating.

I was happy indeed when both of em came out, but once they did, most of the fandom became overwhelmingly queer and non queer fans were eventually pushed out or made to feel unwelcome.

Queer ARMY already say BTS just for girls, gays and theys and they are mostly joking. But if Jikook or any BTS member for that matter were to come out officially, these wont be jokes.

BTS, especially the members who come out wont be considered as those with universal appeal, but be promoted, touted as queer icons instead.

Straight fans who now participate as ARMY equally with non het fans, would now become "guests in a queer space/fandom)".

Our opinion on their style, music choice, career trajectory would be shut down as #hetopinionnotvalid.

Straight BTS fans would then be likened to straight women who go to gay clubs, as interlopers who are encroaching something that doesnt belong to them.

Okay listen. I can sort of understand where you are coming from about being worried about not having a place in the fandom anymore, sort of, but that's just not going to happen with BTS as a whole regardless of if any of them comes out at any point. And as for in jikooker spaces, well not all of jkkr spaces, but most straight fans are ALREADY a guest in queer spaces for these blogs. Nothing is confirmed, sure, but if a blog is run by a queer person, making posts about queer content, it's a queer space first and foremost then. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Dear God, I hope none of yall think I'm straight and that this isn't predominantly a queer space. It's a safe space for everyone always, and yes. A queer space. It's mine. Therefore you, as a straight army, are a quest in a queer space here. Welcome 💜. My posts/content are for the gays first though always. Sorry.

You know what.... okay, I'll bite

this is A LONG POST, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE BENEFICIAL FOR STRAIGHT PEOPLE TO READ IT.

I'm going to merge this ask with an ask a friend sent me a few months ago, during pride month specifically, after my Hate Crimes against Queer more specifically, and while I wanted to respond to it then, it wouldn't have felt right. Albeit, I wasn’t surprised by people’s selfishness and inability to see past themselves and what the message was about. Which is/was/has been about protecting queer people - a conversation that was important to have because it was, as I mentioned, pride month. 

But I have also learned a valuable lesson that I foresee many adopting and applying in the future, (because, as we all know, sheep can't think for themselves) as well, and it's that people can't remove themselves from the conversation and their anger until days/weeks/months later. There is research that shows us the activated parts in our brain that is focused on being on flight or fight mode, more when opposing views come into play. So me sharing this post back then, would have been futile.

Because all it really would have done is caused more anger, when that wasn't the purpose of having these discussions. Once the drama and performative anger tends to die down people are more inclined to listen, and learn because all of those emotions are no longer present.

but I feel like this ask and the ask anon sent to storm, kind of make sense so I decided to merge. Hear me out, I promise it'll make sense

so with that in consideration, let's approach this with an open mind!. Let’s get into it!.

thanks @krawiec95chaosu for sending the ask back in July & I'm sorry I'm just answering it now. 😭

So, first let's start with the anon.

"As a straight ARMY if Jikook (hypothetically) would ever admit they are, or were a thing, I would at once be happy for them, but at the same time get a bit jealous, coz then queer ARMY would try to gate keep them like anything."

I think what bothered me about this part is the fact that anon didn't mention what they would do if it turns out that Jikook aren't a thing. This is a topic my friends and I heavily discuss with each other, and for me honestly, I probably wouldn't be devastated, I've got no skin in this game, and what I mean by that is, I've aways said that this is an individually form of speculation. I form my own opinions about things because not only do somethings make sense when it comes to my queer journey, but I also practice critical thinking. And it's because of these opinions I have personally formed, that I would only blame myself if they weren't together, and I've made peace with that. Because they've never outwardly said "HEY, WE'RE DATING", and I've never seen them even form some sort of sentence that specifically highlights those words, which points to the fact that this is all allegedly, speculative, possibility.

And it's one of the reason I don't really like jikookers especially if they're not queer, because they take the words of others who equally aren't queer, and base it as confirmation. When..... that's not necessarily how it work, and I think its important that straight people ask themselves that question......

what would you do if they aren't queer?

much pondering that anon to do has.

"Straight fans who now participate as ARMY equally with non het fans, would now become "guests in a queer space/fandom)". Our opinion on their style, music choice, career trajectory would be shut down as #hetopinionnotvalid."

I think this is a very important thing to discuss because I just want to point out something that I noticed A LOT when I first joined Tumblr in 2019 and then again in 2021.........

jkkr spaces were predominantly led by straight people.....

for so long straight people have made opinions on jikook and queer topics without ever really having experienced it themselves. They tokenize their family, their friends, someone they might have met, just so they can kind of validate jikook's queer relationship. I've seen straight people say "I showed my queer friend this video and they confirmed that yes, it's gay".... but they don't even realize how weird that or most importantly how that might make their queer friend uncomfortable.

I mean imagine if I was watching passer by's and I asked my straight friend... look at how they're walking so close to each other, do you think those 2 people are straight? can you confirm what I'm seeing

its weird y'all.

But back to the jkkr run spaces.

I can count on my hand how many people on here, who ran their blogs, were actually outwardly queer, and talking about queer topics, and they were kind of treated as small accounts. They would get some sort of validation from their thoughts and experiences ONLY WHEN straight people reblogged it and said "I agree". And I've always wondered why queer people need to seek the validation of hets in order for people to IDK, understand what queer relationships are like.

And these spaces are still run by het people, even today I can count with 1 hand the queer people here, who openly talk about queer topics, topics that don't always have to relate to Jungkook and Jimin.

And because there's so many straight people who lead jikook blogs, I don't know why people don't just fucking stick to those accounts. Why come to queer spaces to complain about it? You're still a larger demographic than us, and I wonder why they still seek our spaces if they don't like the way we speak, the way we discuss topics, or even the way we relay our queer journeys. You think I go to straight spaces and tell them to stop being straight or to not talk about their straight life?. No, lmfaoo wtf, I'm on my blog talking about the things I see, and experience, and for some reason people think that me being openly queer is somehow an insult to straight people.

It's the diet queer I keep telling people about.

The only reason straight people are getting mad nowadays is not because they care about queer people, they're only mad because ACTUAL QUEER PEOPLE, are no longer appeasing to you. You dislike the truths we put out about our experiences, and because of your ego, and lack of removing yourself from the conversation, you instead get offended, and think it's a direct slight to you.... when often times it's not. Y'all can live in a fantasy, just let me know thats what you want, just so that I don't take y'all seriously, only to then ask me why I'm not helping YOU keep YOUR fantasy up.

"Queer fans can be rather possessive about queer celebs I have seen. I kinda get why they would, but still..I was happy indeed when both of em came out, but once they did, most of the fandom became overwhelmingly queer and non queer fans were eventually pushed out or made to feel unwelcome."

Yeah, and we always will be. I watched that Larry analysis video to really fucking understand the mindset of fetishization that straights impose on queer people, and let me tell you, The way I process information, it's really fucking efficient. 10min into that video I had already 30 different perspectives solidified, and that vid was like 2hs long. I keep telling people, while y'all are out there playing Jenga, I'm playing chess, and yet people still think it's easy to manipulate me, and I do find that funny, because as soon as someone starts talking to me, I know 1. their intentions 2. their motives 3. their agenda and 4. the way their mind works, and as soon as I mark you as my enemy and I have my attention on you, you'll soon find yourself regretting that. I'm not a good person to fuck with.

Jungkook is like that too, and yet people still underestimate him and think he's stupid, when if you pay attention to him, you'll see exactly Jungkook for who he is. And even if you lack the depth of comprehending what I mean, just listen to his words instead "I treat those who love very good, and the others who don't I don't care for them". It's ok, Jungkook they hate and underestimate us because we're funny, smart, successful and fucking hot.

BUT BACK TO THE LARRY AT HAND. They were 2 people who came out and said "WE ARE NOT DATING" and yet there's still people out there who continue to say they're "Real", I mean don't we make fun of tkkrs for that shit?. That's the whole antithesis of tkkrs lol.

And it is because of the way straight people see us, and their involvement into the lives of potentially queer people they don't know, that it does make us protective.

Imagine the shit show of Jikook ever coming out, I mean people already sexualize them, they talk about Jungkook when he was a minor in the most disgusting ways, and openly talk about their sexual life, all the while people leading these convos are straight.... how does that not make people feel grossed out - that you're talking about people from a spectator point of view. That you're disrespecting their sexuality just because you want likes and followers. Even now it makes me physically ill. When I had throw up emoji's it's because thats how some conversations that straight people lead about jikook make me feel.

One could say that it's the same way men talk about women, when they sexualize them and talk about them as objects rather than people, like that makes y'all feel grossed out... right?.

And if we deepen it, imagine if queer people talked about straight people fucking, and overtly sexualizing them, and yet feeling nothing towards them. That's like me talking about how much I love and "respect" Eva M and Ryan G and in the same breath I'm online talking about how good they must fvck, and going in depth about that..... like if that's your jam that's great, no kink shaming, but one must understand how fucking umcomfortable it is for queer people to see straight people talking about tops, bottoms, mascs, etc.

Like y'all don't realize how problematic it is to see the way straight people laugh and giggle at parts of our identity. And then y'all get mad when queer people talk about that and think it's hypocrisy, when it isn't, and think we're gatekeeping you.

So yeah, I'm not surprised that queer people feel some type of way and basically made y'all feel unwelcome. because that's literally how we feel in these spaces, when straight people come to us to complain about how we're silencing their voices, all the while they're trying to silence queer voices by doing that, without knowing how that is a form of microaagression against queer people. And I can tell you one opinion of silencing is more polarizing than the other, being in queer spaces and silencing queer people because you don't like that they're upset that y'all fetishize us is fucked up if you ask me.

Queer ARMY already say BTS just for girls, gays and theys and they are mostly joking. But if Jikook or any BTS member for that matter were to come out officially, these wont be jokes.

now I know this person is lying, because what?. I mean yeah I say BTS is for the gays, and I'm not joking, and you know why?

BECAUSE BTS IS FOR EVERYBODY.

and I specifically, because I can't speak for anyone else, I SAY bts are for the gays because these spaces and twt and other platforms are predominantly led by STRAIGHT HOMOPHOBIC people.

And guess fucking what..... I'M GAY, so yes, BTS is for ME.

are you fucking stupid?.

I want to so badly troll this anon, but I am trying to restrain myself from being a full fledged asshole, because how many times do we need to have this conversation, how many more times to straight people have to come out and say "woe is straight". Like you're really not the minority you think you are.

"Straight fans who now participate as ARMY equally with non het fans, would now become "guests in a queer space/fandom)".

And I said I was trying so hard not to troll, but I can't help it, this is my 1 pass in this post.

This is the stupidest thing I have ever fucking read in my life, and trust me I've read a lot of stupid shit in these spaces, but this one takes the fucking cake.

If this is the person who speaks for straight people, I recommend you get another speaker of the straights, because this anon is making y'all look stupid af. and I know this anon doesn't have the fucking balls to come to me to talk about this, and that's why they go to other bloggers, and send their minions, because I recently made this post and I know this anon skimmed it because they sound fucking stupid. straights do y'all read of just skim through?... lol

"Straight BTS fans would then be likened to straight women who go to gay clubs, as interlopers who are encroaching something that doesnt belong to them."

because people can lie and say no, we're not upset, but I've been the only person who has been saying that shit about straight people at clubs for a while now.

And I know who the fuck this anon is without anyone having to tell me who they are, simply because of a history and pattern of behavior that they've consistently displayed, a pattern they're not even aware of. But I can tell you that much, this gives off someone who hates queer people, but pretend to love Jikook in order to get followers.

& I keep telling y'all I set traps for specific people, and it always makes me laugh when they fall right into it.

The thing is people really really want to put out this narrative that queer people dislike straight people, because they're trying to regain control in these spaces, but the thing is, and as I said I can only speak for myself, I jokingly but seriously respond by saying

"I don't hate straight people, I have a lot of friends who are het", because people LOVE to tokenize their queer relationships to prove that they're not homophobic, that they're allies, that they care.

But they mainly want to try and get control because they know for a fact that these "straight plights" are not even serious when it comes to real world matters. It's a privileged mentality that people who have been given everything their whole life, are mad and upset when they're told to respect boundaries, especially towards people who do experience violence because of their identity.

It's reversed racism, and that shit a'int real. ask me why, and I'll tell you.

But I want to share something that a friend and I were discussing a while back, and they said something that perfectly wrapped up what the problem is.

“I don't think straight people realize how unwelcoming queer spaces are for them. For sure we will make fun of them, call out their bs, and discuss their homophobia. They are used to being main characters they don't realize they are straight up side characters and vilians in our stories And they over estimate the rate at which we encounter homophobia in these streets”

and I want to add to that because, it's not about me gatekeeping, I've said time and time again that this space is for myself and myself only, I openly talk about queer topics NOT to alienate straight people, but because I only want to provide a queer perspective, and to maybe give insight into topics they might not be aware of. I'm not welcoming of everyone because I think it's a privilege, I'm welcoming of everyone because that's just who I am, I'm friendly, but I do have boundaries. and if people are mad about those boundaries, then I think it's important for them to ask themselves why they're mad about that, what makes you feel like I shouldn't have a way of protecting myself. But also, this mentality that queer people are gatekeeping is just an ounce, a mini taste of what we experience everywhere else In the world. You're mad some of us aren't happy with the way we're viewed and thus it makes us not as welcoming..... well welcome to our entire life.

You're only experiencing a margin of that and y'all can't handle it?. But queer people are supposed to be submitted to that x1000 and we're supposed to abdicate to you?.

People should be lucky that queer people aren't fucking hateful like the way straight people are towards us. Do y'all think that it was someone who was queer that outed me?. No, it was a group of straight people, and y'all think some of us shouldn't have animosity?. I know of love and acceptance because both my parents - straight people - raised me with the mentality that NOT every single person is an enemy, or hateful, or evil. I know of love because I was brought up in a household that reminded me I was worthy of love, and you all genuinely think that all queer people have the same experience?. Not everyone is as accepting, and hate crimes towards queer people ARE all led by straight people, or people who have internalized homophobia, BECAUSE SOCIETY CATERS TOWARDS STRAIGHT PEOPLE, MEANWHILE THEY TELL US THAT THE'RES SOMETHING WRONG WITH US, AND THUS WE HATE THE PARTS OF OURSELF THAT OTHERS CAN'T ACCEPT.

now for the ask my friend sent

The conversation above is pretty explanatory.

"As a straight ARMY if Jikook (hypothetically) would ever admit they are, or were a thing"

that specific part, because anon is too self-absorbed to see how that sounds and what that implies, and it really does tell you everything.

People don't care about about Jungkook and Jimin on a personal level, they don't practice critical thinking into what would happen if they ever announced they were never together. They automatically think of "coming out" as a happy thing, when sometimes thats not necessarily the way the rest of the world would reply.

They see life through rose colored Jikook glasses and hope that they do come out just so that they can use their bond as a weapon, as an "AHA" an "I told you so" to fight with other shippers. It would never be about 2 queer people being out, for them it would be about being right.

I've talked about how traumatic it can be if you're ever outsed, I've talked about the difficult experiences that come with being queer, the d3aths, the hate, the violence and the bigotry, and yet, anon still lives in a world where they see Jungkook and Jimin's bond through a straight persons perspective.

And people get mad when actual queer people, burst the bubble and tell them that that's not how it is for us.

And all of these discussions of "I hope they come out" predominantly come from straight people, because they can't even for a second comprehend what that entails. And that's the privilege I'm talking about, you have the option to date the opposite gender and society would accept that, even if there's a level of prejudice involved, but queer people sometimes that don't have that option.

When you bring up Celebrities who are potentially queer, who live in a homophobic country, and those two celebrities aren't out, and they have the entire world watching them under a microscope.... do you really not feel any empathy and worry for them?. Does their safety and wellbeing even cross your mind?. Or do you have some internalized homophobia that you need to work out, that makes you not care about them as people, but only care about them as people you covet.

People should be able to come out when they want to, AND if they want to, and the way people have conversations about one's personal choice, makes me believe that they've never seen or known someone who doesn't feel safe to come out.

So what does “Coming Out” mean?. Webster Dictionary states that, it’s a verb and it contains the following synonyms: came out; come out; coming out; comes out .

Intransitive Verb

1. To come into public view: make a public appearance  - --- b. To become evident 2. To declare oneself especially in public utterance  3. To Turn out in an outcome: end up  4. To make a debut  5. To openly declare ONE’S sexual orientation or gender identiy  --- a. Come out as bisexual  --- b. Decided to come out to “her/their/his” family 

BUT I do find the topic of 'coming out' interesting to me especially as it’s widely known for queer people, is #5. & I'm not offended by it, I actually laughed when I read it, for it supports the obsession people have about queer lives, but also in terms of educational significance, it’s not the first thing one would associate with coming out. And yes the terms are similar such as; coming out into public view, to declare oneself, to end up, or to debut, all can be applicable to coming out as queer dependent on how we see it. 

And so having that in mind first and foremost, it actually made me see things in a different perspective, and one of things that continuously made me go “huh”.

Because it poses the question of why do I or fellow queer people have to; need to come out if straight people don’t have to?. 

And it further emphasizes the way straight people interact with us, and mainly it's by tokenizing us whenever they need queer validity, but still lacking the depth of what being queer for us might mean. And sometimes it's not even the lack of depth, sometimes it's intentional, that they don't really care about our experiences, our stories, and our concerns, because if they did, they'd dig a little deeper and have more in their vocabulary than "I support queer people". Because that seems like an empty statement considering they never actually talk to queer people about what their support means or looks like.

If they do or don't come out, is not a matter to me, all I hope for is that they're happy and healthy AND SAFE.

one's queer journey is for themselves and theirs only, and it is weird to me that some people think they have some claim or right to demand that they come out simply because they've spent years supporting them. ESPECIALLY when Jungkook and Jimin have never verbally said "we're queer support us".

It's that covet and ownership I keep talking about, people think they have some sort of say or like they're owed something from them because they "support their bond". Because what would happen if they ever denied that they're not together.

I know a lot of queer people who have said to me that they'd be ok with that, that they would accept it, and move on with their life, yeah we'd be a little sad because of OUR OWN PERSONAL PERCEPTIONS, but I would never blame someone for the way I viewed them.

But it is interesting to me that straight people, and antis, are more often the ones to say they'd be angry, and call them queer baiters, when..... it's kind of your fault for not seeing them as people and instead seeing them more as stories in your life that give you purpose.

you know how I said that now that Jikook were going to be heading out, and that these spaces wouldn't have anything to do because of the lack of content and that I predicted what would happen.

I really hoped I wouldn't be right. But here it is.

Victimizing your straight identity to push our queer voices, or have people start to dislike them was the first step. I don't think people realize how much hate we experience by straight people in our lives. If you think that we're being harsh or mean, trust me when I say that we're wearing kid gloves, because the thing is the straight homophobic people that I've encountered HERE and irl are wiling to go so slow, to hell, to be fucking cruel and degrading towards us, but the moment we start being protective of our spaces, and start setting boundaries, there's this performative outrage from the very same people who are actually hateful.

I think y'all should think about that before coming to queer spaces to complain about your plight. because if you're loud about the hate you as a straight person is "feeling", then why are you not loud when you see queer people being attacked by the very same same people who claim to be allies, and jikook queer supporters.

idk sounds like you've got some food for thought.

all I know is y'all not about to villainize queer people especially when you have a jikook avi, and you're a "jikooker blog".

Capisce?