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Might be strange, but if Cordelia and Aemond were to have child - we all know he'd be big girl dad, but do you think if they have a son he'd feel jealous? I can't imagine him with the girls being that, but with a son I could imagine him feeling that longing for a maternal hand
Don’t worry, it’s not a strange question at all! I actually have so many thoughts about Aemond's relationship to parenthood, so this unfortunately turned out to be another really long post... sorry about that!
I've generally come to dislike how the show writes Aemond’s mummy issues. I don't think they were set up well enough in season one to justify how central they became in later seasons. He still has a complicated relationship with Alicent in my fic, but because Green Tides is a bit of a Frankenstein of book and show canon, it isn't the same as in seasons two and three. I think to answer your question, I need to explain how those two differ, and why I've written their relationship this way.
Aemond and Alicent's dynamic in GT is a a bit of a mix between book and show canon, based mostly on what we were given in Fire & Blood and season one. My impression from the first season was that, while Alicent was an emotionally distant mother at times, she also trusted and respected Aemond. She scolded him when he acted out of line, but she still trusted him enough to send him with Criston to find Aegon, for example.
In GT, Aemond and Alicent fight every now and then, and their relationship deteriorates a bit after Storm's End. Since she's described as going pale and crying out, "Mother have mercy on us all" upon learning he killed Lucerys in the book, I thought it'd make sense for their relationship to worsen after that. Still, in my story, Alicent doesn't oppose Aemond's regency, and she doesn't push herself forward as a candidate like she does in the show. She affords him a level of trust that her show version denies him — and I believe book Alicent trusted him quite a bit, considering her famous line:
"The city is yours, princess, but you will not hold it long. The rats play when the cat is gone, but my son Aemond will return with fire and blood."
The way I thought their relationship would develop after season one was that Alicent would initially be distraught by what Aemond did to Luke, but would ultimately support his regency and use him against Rhaenyra and Daemon. Well, I started planning Green Tides months after season two aired, so I knew that wasn't the case, but I stuck with my original idea anyway.
So, does Aemond have a complicated relationship with Alicent in GT? Yes, but it stems more from the following things: first, the fact that Alicent was an emotionally distant mother. Second, because the Targaryen/Hightower family dynamics are kind of problematic by default (high expectations, culture of incest, Black-Green division). Third, because they don't always see eye to eye on political matters.
But that's pretty much it, and there are no sexual elements (at least I don't think I've written any).
The fourth, and I'd say most major, issue between them (which Aemond himself likely sees as somewhat normal) is that Alicent uses him as a tool for war, such as when she asks him to kill Daemon. Granted, Aemond would have hunted Daemon down anyway, but asking your son to kill his uncle is still pretty messed up when you think about it objectively lol. So, I would say that their relationship is problematic and often very icy, but it's never "loveless" like it's made out to be in the show.
In fact, I'd argue Aemond suffers from far deeper daddy issues. Viserys was an absent, negligent father who constantly disrespected Alicent and their children. Viserys handled the Driftmark situation awfully, whereas Alicent defended Aemond.
So, now I can finally answer your question: no, I don't think Aemond would be jealous of his son's relationship with Cordelia.
Instead, he'd probably have complicated views about his ability to be a good father, because his own father was so terrible. That said, perhaps there would be moments when he would feel some type of longing when he'd see Cordelia being warm with their son, because he rarely received that from Alicent.
But yeah, considering what was revealed in chapter 41, I think it's safe to say that Lia is the one with the worse mummy issues... 😭
I have to disagree with your with your criticism about HOTD's Oedipal Complex with Aemond. As much as it's disgusting it also makes absolute sense. Even in the book, the fact that Aemond grown closes to a woman that looks to be his mother's age and the similarity between the names Alys/Alicent is certainly not a coincidence. The plot itself might be a little convoluted but sometimes art it's meant to unnerve us. Accusing Ryan Condal of having a mommy fetish is also quite disgusting. What does that make of GRRM? He wrote pretty disturbing scenes in his books. What does tha make of you? You're literally writing incest fanfics. I don't think it reflects on the person you are.
Respectfully, because I love your work.
I think you're misunderstanding the criticism.
First, let's address the book stuff.
Alys Rivers was at least forty years of age during the Dance of the Dragons, that much is known; Mushroom makes her even older. All agree that she looked younger than her years, but whether this was simple happenstance, or achieved through her practice of the dark arts, men continue to dispute.
GRRM, F&B
In the books, Alys was said to look younger than she actually was. We get tacit hints that she's probably a witch, and that she may have been using glamours to conceal her age, and possibly work the men around her.
Whatever her powers, it would seem Daemon Targaryen was immune to them.
GRRM, F&B
So again, potential hint that she tried her game on Daemon, failed, and then moved on to a younger, more vulnerable target which she could more easily control. Which opens up the possibility that Aemond didn't go for her purely cause she was an older 'milf', but because she was directly playing him. and using her magic to reinforce her control. (You can make parallels to Melisandre/Stannis)
Like this guy became utterly obsessed with her, to the point where he refused to leave Harrenhal when Criston suggested it, and potentially even married her, despite her bastard status and despite him already being betrothed.
Now, that's not to say he was the innocent victim in this. Book Aemond is a vile, misogynistic ego maniac who exterminated her family, and took her as a prize of war (read: sex slave) likely because he wanted to sexually humiliate a bastard of a house he despised. Its just that she might have potentially turned the tables on him, and made the best of her situation to secure power for herself.
Did she play on his mommy issues? Possibly, we don't know. All we have to substantiate the mommy angle is her being a wet nurse, and an older woman (who looked younger than her age). We don't get any information about Aemond's character in relation to women (beyond him choosing the prettiest of Lord Borros' daughters), or his relationship with Alicent, or his previous sexual partners to know for sure that he actually preferred older women because he was Oedipal toward his mother.
And precisely because of this ambiguity, because of this plethora of interpretations, I actually don't mind the mommy issues they gave him on the show (fml, if you've read Daughters of the dragon, you know he has major mommy issues there as well). The issue is their handling which is to say, they were reduced to cheap, sexually titillating shock value rather than a meaningful facet of his character that serves to further develop him and advance the plot.
First, they weren't set up properly. S1 was rushed as all hell, meaning we never got to properly develop any of the kids and their relationships with their family, and how that shaped them into adulthood.
S1 Aemond's personality was bullied kid who felt inferior cause he didn't have a dragon, got a dragon and turned himself into a badass edgelord fueled by resentment. The framing tells us this insecurity stems from his second son syndrome and the trauma his brother and nephews put him through (chiefly Luke slashing his eye), not Alicent's parenting specifically (like it so clearly is w Aegon, who is routinely belittled, verbally, emotionally and physically abused on screen. Which in turn, manifests in his alcoholism, and promiscuity, a desperate need for love and approval; one of the most common ways mommy issues show up in adults)
The fandom often views him as a parentified child, but this is an extrapolation gotten from one scene; Aemond comforting Alicent at Driftmark, and managing her feelings, rather than her doing it to him.
That's it. We don't get to explore their dynamic as a family unit (Alicent and all her children) as well as their individual bonds with each other, and with her. We don't get to see the the impact being parentified has on him, Alicent's inconsistent, or even authoritarian care, the blurring of familial boundaries.
Instead, they barely interact and the season kinda sorta sets up the potential for Helaena/Aemond, with both he actors and some of the directors playing into this (possibly tying Aemond's desire for his sister to his jealousy of his older brother and his status)
Fast forward to s2, and now you have him lying naked in the fetal position in the arms of a much older prostitute; the same prostitute who mind you, was paid to SA him at 13. S1 established he hadn't seen her in a while, and was uncomfortable around her, only for his s2 to jump into a full blown mom-baby cosplay with the show implies has been going on for a while. Why? Why did he seek her out? What is the purpose of him going to seek comfort from a woman who was essentially paid to assault him?
We don't know. Because Ryan never showed the start of this relationship. Now as an observant fan, you can infer that this happened cause he and Alicent had a fight over Luke, and he basically lost her as a support system, which in turn prompted him to seek out an older woman substitute. But that's just it; this is an inference. A headcannon Ryan never properly established on screen. We not only never got to see the fight post Luke's death, we also never got to see the depth of Aemond and Alicent's bond to understand why her spurning him would send him to spiral so badly he would seek comfort from someone who abused him. (You can read about why this is an issue here and here)
Aemond spends the first half of s2 as a random NPC who doesn't interact with his family, has no reaction to the death of his nephew (who mind you, was killed in retaliation for his murder), before rapidly transforming into his book self within the span of a single episode; a cartoonish, ego maniacal edgelord whose personality is 'I got a big dragon' (s2ep6 self is the closest he ever got to Book Aemond).
He dismisses Alicent from the council because she's his 'kryptonite' who would cloud his judgement; except this is a BTS comment from Ewan Mitchell, not something we see on screen. On screen, it just looks like he's dismissing her cause she's an idiot who keeps advocating for peace and dickriding their enemy in the middle of a war. (And cause he's angry with her cause she blames him for starting the war)
Which brings me to s3 (finally). Again, what is the point of Alicent and Aemond's kiss, and the sex scene? Genuinely? To show he's fucked up and has mommy issues? Yeah, makes sense, that scene of him lying fetal in s2 wasn't enough, we really needed to have him outright fuck his mom for people to get it.
To show how incest is bad and how it leads to the breakdown of familial relationships? Okay, gotta wonder why Ryan didn't meaningfully set this up, showed how the blurring of boundaries gradually led Aemond to think this is completely fine. And I can hear you saying "Oh, ofc he'd think it's natural, the Targs practice incest!". They practice lateral incest; between siblings, cousins, aunts, uncles etc, for the specific purpose of maintaining their dragon blood.
Parent/child incest has always been a taboo, even among them, so there's no excuse that Aemond just naturally assumed this would be okay; especially because his Mother is a Hightower, not a Targaryen, raised religious, and very anti incest (she only married Aegon to Helaena cause of politics).
(A good fanfic that tackled this issue in a far better way was the now deleted Family Tree. It unabashedly showed the impact incest has on a child, how it shapes their view of relationships, both familial and romantic. Not to mention that it skillfully showed how abuse and neglect intersect with the incest, even in cases where said incest was supposedly 'consensual'. And it was set up from the very first line, and consistently developed across multiple chapters)
For more info about why the mommy issues angle doesnt work, please see these posts here and here.
No, these scenes are here for the same reason we saw Daemon eat out Alyssa last season: shock value. That's it. Neither of these scenes tell us anything meaningful about these characters beyond Aemond is fucked up and has mommy issues and Daemon is fucked up and wants approval; as if we didn't spend seasons getting slapped over the head with this very information.
And thats why I take issue with it. Granted, I did take it too far by calling it a mommy fetish fanfic, and I take responsibility for it. Regardless, it doesn't alter the fact that the show has been portraying abuse and SA in horrible ways that do absolutely nothing for the plot. ASOIAF has incest and gratuitous violence as well, and while I have my fair share of gripes w how George handled these topics in many respects, I understand why they were included in certain contexts. (To avoid repeating myself, I'll just drop this answer where I go into detail about the narrative purpose of incest in ASOIAF)
This isn't it. It serves no meaningful purpose other than shock value in an empty, inconsistent story that's simultaneously dragging and speed running toward a predetermined conclusion.
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There's always one writer I see you talking to in the comments of your posts and they always make me giggle
I think this is well-intended but I’m not sure (sorry, I’m bad with tone sometimes), but I’m going to believe it is in any case! Yes, my moots are all funny, smart, and lovely! <33
The last time the Manderlys visited Winterfell, Cregan and Cordelia spent some time together in preparation for their wedding (which never took place). Cordelia found her then-betrothed's courting cold and spiritless, and realised very early on that his heart wasn't in it. She never said anything to her family, however, fearing the truth would upset them.
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Hey just wanted to give you a shoutout and thank you for writing a better Alicent than the mockery of her character the show has done to her
Oh thank you so much, that's so kind! :") I don't know if I've done a better job overall, but I've tried my hardest to keep her season one characterisation, so I'm glad if it feels like that has worked. 🩵
I wonder what that Baratheon girl show Aemond is betrothed to would think about all of this 😭 she’s legitimately been bound to one of the most troubled men in the Seven Kingdoms
My thoughts on House of the Dragon season 3 episode 7
Another interesting episode this week... Spoilers below!
Aemond killing that poor knight in front of his mother? Aemond, you were raised better than that! (you weren't)
Whoever’s cooking the meals for Ormund needs to stop and change professions.
Also, Ormund being interesting in a vegetarian diet… he really is dark woke isn't he.
That dinner scene with Aemond, Alicent and Alys was surprisingly funny… it gave me major Maegor Targaryen vibes, with Alys obviously being Tyanna of the Tower (witch wife), and Alicent being both Ceryse Hightower and Visenya Targaryen (wife & mother).
Rhaenyra cheating on her bum husband with Mysaria, yay!!
Jeyne Arryn is still slaying in the Eyrie.
This line from Aemond: ”A new line is coming. A new line of unsullied kings" I found a bit strange. Since Aemond is referring to a line that he and Alys would start, I don't understand why he would use a term like "unsullied." After all, their children would most likely be bastards, or at least the mother is a bastard — and we all know what Aemond thinks about bastards. On the other hand, a lot of bigoted men are hypocrites, so I get it.
Aemond seems to be, understandably, pretty lost in the fantasy world Alys has created for the two of them. Him desiring to raise a legacy of his own feels like an extremely naive desire, considering that even though Rhaenyra's reign is unstable, she is still very much the queen, resides in the capital, and has several dragons against Aemond's one, who isn't even at Harrenhal with him — yet, at least. I would like to think that the Aemond the show established in the first season would have more foresight than that. But perhaps he is slowly morphing into the more irrational, book version of himself.
I wonder where Larys will go now that he's abandoned Aegon... will be very interesting to see how his arc develops.
I also hope Alicent and Aegon somehow run into each other on the road, because I really don't want to see more scenes of her locked up in the Red Keep.
Ormund turning Ulf to his side is a very smart move!
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