d.f.

This interview was conducted via e-mail for a feature I was putting together for the release of 2013′s Armed Courage, intended to be published on Tiny Mix Tapes. About half of the (unpublished) questions were left for Michael Morley, who I never heard back from, so I never ended up submitting or publishing the thing. In light of the Dead C’s upcoming album Trouble, as well as Bruce Russell’s new LP on Feeding Tube Howling and Instability at High Volume Settings, and not forgetting Morley’s fantastic Moonrise and Saturday Night Fever releases, I figured I’d at least publish this bit with Russell, who should require no introduction.  --D.F.

You’ve referred to Secret Earth as a sort of return to making “songs,” a way of returning to the idea of convention while also “exploding that kind of thing”—how would you refer to the side-long pieces of Armed Courage? There’s a bit of everything in there, and if we’re looking at it along markers of time, track durations are longer than those on Patience.

Personally I’d call these ‘pieces’; as in ‘two side long pieces’. We improvise and sometimes Michael overdubs a ‘song’ on top, or more properly ‘sings along’ – as we all do with recorded music from time to time. I sing to country music in my car with great gusto. Mind you, I don’t record it! I wasn’t sure why Michael felt the sides had to be so long (they are very long), until I heard the mixed versions, and I think in terms of ‘ebb and flow’ they make a lot of sense as they are, and I wouldn’t like them to be cut shorter, it would upset their balance. We do the work: then we listen to the work. The work speaks its own weird language, because no one planned it, it just happened. That’s the big difference between what we do and groups who ‘write songs’ or even ‘write pieces’ (without singing) – we don’t write them, they quite literally ‘just happen’. They are quite independent of us, in a strange way. It’s easy for an audience to mistakenly focus on their own experience of the work, on simply receiving it. From the standpoint of reception, our work is just like Franz Ferdinand or The National or Richard Hawley, only we ‘go on longer’ and ‘aren’t very good’. To understand our work, audiences have to be prepared to try a little harder (to participate a little in the work), and start understanding it from the standpoint of production. Then you can dimly see how it’s actually a whole different game.

Did you record much for Armed Courage?

My recollection is we did a couple of hours of material over 1 or 2 days. It was pretty clear what bits were really kicking. We know when we’re ‘on’ and when we’re not, at least in terms of playback (rather than in the heat of the moment). When we go back over stuff we seldom disagree over what’s good and what’s not. I should add the proviso that we record almost everything we do, and if we did a live gig in the time we were considering this record, which was so great we had to include it, we would have. So I guess you could throw in another 2-3 hours of stuff we recorded, but didn’t use. There’s some stuff from our French tour online which is cool. The excerpt on Vimeo from the end of our Marseille show is pretty nice.

Reading through the Wire’s most recent story on The Dead C, I was quite struck by the, I suppose not common knowledge, but I can certainly believe you when you say things like nobody would come out to shows, or that promoters were dicks when Sonic Youth wanted you on tour with them. Has this ever changed? Is New Zealand any different to you now then say, ten or fifteen years ago?

Oh yes, things changed here eventually, around about 2003 it was obvious that we would eventually get respect among the underground, by virtue of our international reputation. The industry still ignores us here. If you check out the website of the New Zealand Music Commission (the government body charged with promoting NZ popular music), they have a database of artists http://nzmusic.org.nz/artists/ - we do not appear. No mention. Nada. Never happened. It’s fucking hilarious. But we do get recognition from those we might respect ourselves. But the chances are if you asked even musicians from NZ, unless they are of a certain age, or from far underground, they will not know who we are. I occasionally lecture on NZ music in a degree course at the polytechnic where I teach, and the students usually ask me at some point ‘were you in a band?’ I say: ‘Yes, I am in a band, but not one you’ve heard of’. I often describe the Dead C as ‘an American band, but from here’, meaning, our career has really happened abroad even while we lived in NZ. It keeps me honest.

How about the music world in general--do you ever think about how you've got this unique status of being respected and influential (at least in the right circles) despite being so geographically isolated? I mean, you've been at this long enough that when a new album comes out, there really isn't anyone else to compare it to, except for perhaps bands that you've influenced.  

Yes, I’ll be honest. I do think about this. It certainly is weird and I’m not totally sure I understand it. We were lucky that when we got going we were noticed because we were from New Zealand, and at that time people were paying attention for the first time to music from here. Secondly, we got going in the second wave, after the profile of this country was already established by the Clean, the Gordons, Tall Dwarfs, whoever… so we were able to get away with doing stuff that was pretty out there. For whatever reason, at that time we were doing the right thing (however you describe it) out to the weird side of Sonic Youth, where noise, rock, improv and industrial all kind of ran out of steam together, leaving us charging ahead towards the edge of the fucking universe. And we established a reputation for that in the early 90s, on Siltbreeze, which has kept us moving forward since. I think we have now earned the epithet ‘sui generis’ – no one has invented a template to fit us yet, so they ain’t gonna do it now.

I think it’s interesting, with the way a lot of music from New Zealand was made available at peoples’ fingertips with mp3 blogs and whatnot a handful of years ago, and how there have been an increasing number of reissues—Captured Tracks taking over a set of Flying Nun reissues in North America, or how Mie Music has reissued LPs from Gate and Alastair Galbraith, and then the Time to Go compilation, the Erewhon Calling book—you’ve known much of this music for a long time, and now decades afterwards there’s this historical/cultural outside interest, as well as the resources to make these albums and essays more available. Have you been happy to have a voice in this? Is there anything you’d like to see better represented that perhaps hasn’t had the chance yet?

Speaking for myself, when I started X/way, I was already doing ‘archival’ stuff, the Victor Dimisich Band and Scorched Earth Policy, for instance, both of which ironically are going to get another trot round the track on Siltbreeze now. In those days I was working as an archivist, thought I’m not doing that professionally any more, so I guess I had an interest in preserving aspects of the historical record that I felt might otherwise be lost. I’ve also been pro-active with Flying Nun’s back catalogue also, since it got going again - and I’m currently organizing a re-issue for the most called-for of the lot, the Stones. All their actual releases from the day (ten measly tracks) and some choice live cuts. Those who were really ‘on the money’ in 1982-83 rated them the best of all the post-Clean Dunedin bands, but because they broke up almost immediately, they’ve been the least well served by the historical record. This will give you the chance to see the error of your ways!

Would you ever consider making Corpus Hermeticum or Xpressway titles available again, in some form or another? I know that Peter Jefferies’ Last Great Challenge in a Dull World was reissued quite recently.

‘Last Great Challenge’ has been reissued before, on Ajax. I listened to it recently, still a great record, probably better now, for the inclusion of the ‘Catapult’ single tracks, actually. Lots of X/way stuff is getting re-issued, on Siltbreeze and elsewhere. I think Peter Gutteridge is getting another go-round. Not necessarily in exactly the same form, but who cares? There’s some talk of reissuing H/corp stuff. VHF are doing the Flying Saucer Attack thing. Some of the Handful of Dust stuff is coming back (No Fun did a double CD in 2008). Other stuff may surface, but to be honest, it’s not a high priority for me (unless its my own music!). And it is hard to get people to do new projects, compared to re-issues, which limits my enthusiasm for old shit. I want to keep moving forward, I’m not done yet!

Beyond day jobs, what else have you guys been busy with?

"I would say I'm the only jagbag in the band, because I can sometimes--every once a month, I can be sort of withering and say provocative, passive-aggressive shit. But I don't remember anyone in the band being jagbags. Mike the keyboardist, he can turn into Mean Mike, but ...