•rate the finale one star on imdb•

man, anon.... there’s just so much.

here are a few write-up posts with links after 4x13 happened: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6

#1 grossness forever and ever: sending hale appleman out to do press for a queer ship and getting his hopes up, all the while knowing that they’re never going to go through with it.

the way syfy deleted that 4x13 critical article... and two years later, the writer talks about what happened: 1, 2, 3, 4

SJH thought they were going to get praise for 4x13 so they planned to do a post-episode discussion on twitter, but the fans were so enraged/triggered that they went radio silent for a week instead

in an interview released after 4x06 (x), sera talked about S4 exploring the cyclical nature of quentin’s depression... meanwhile, in the physical kids podcast for 4x11 henry alonso meyers said that quentin wasn’t especially depressed in S4.

about a week (i think?) before 4x13, sera gave props to the fandom for our ability look out for each other’s mental health.

the cast was only told about jason’s departure two days before 4x13 aired. jason confirmed this in his exit interview (published, i think, right as the episode aired). in the 4x13 podcast olivia is crying because she just found out jason’s leaving, but at SDCC 2019 she said it was really sad shooting the bonfire because they were saying goodbye to jason as well as quentin. i don’t think she was lying on the podcast; she seemed so genuinely upset. i think by SDCC SJH were forcing a narrative.

arjun was comforting people on twitter after 4x12 and telling them it wasn’t the end of the road for queliot; the monday before 4x13 aired, he tweeted that he just found out they went all GOT and filmed a fake ending.

the fact that they filmed a fake-out?? so it looked like quentin was coming back?? what the fuck. that is money down the drain; money this show did not have. their excuse was that they filmed it to throw the rest of the cast and the crew (and anyone sniffing around for spoilers) offtrack wrt the fact that jason wasn’t coming back.

john said quentin and eliot didn’t have any kind of reunion or resolution in 4x13 because that would’ve been “artificial”... but the episode went out of its way to give every other ship a moment or several.

wrt 4x13 john said that because quentin has less fear of death and that makes him heroic. (x)

john’s whole thing about how the “subconscious mind gets what it wants”...

the whole thing with lev? i think he talked to some people/tried to be there for people? in a facebook group? someone remind me.

david “never heard of a bonfire as a suicide fantasy” reed.

jason said his NDA was fucked up.

the SDCC 2019 panel. batshit insane. the moderated begged the audience to not be weird about quentin’s death (i think this was after the audience booed when 4x13 was mentioned?), played a clip from S5 that compared everyone who was hurt by quentin’s death to a misogynistic pigman, and the audience was then told, by john (and sera?) that they were all going to die; that everyone in that room was be one hour closer to death. then went on to say that they killed quentin to explore grief because their dads died when they were in their 20s. (which of course is the same as a 26-year-old committing suicide! not to mention the fact that they didn’t do a storyline about this when quentin’s dad died... or alice’s... or kady’s mom...) (hilarious that they went with this excuse here but wrapped up the grief storyline after 5x03.)

at, i think, the dragon con in 2019, olivia made a nice comment about jason (about what a great scene partner he is, i think) and hale (and the audience) clapped and all of a sudden all of their Q&As were canceled.

in december 2019, they cut a trailer of S4 to make it look like quentin wasn’t even in the season.

by 5x02 they had lost 40% of their audience.

in one of the PKW episodes, one of the writers said that “julia couldn’t have made friends with eliot and margo if quentin had lived.”

sera stringing fans along on twitter while season 5 was airing! refusing to say whether quentin would be back! “watch and find out”!!!!!

lol right before 5x13 people were asking about the candy witch from 2x01 and if she was going to come to anything for this final episode, and sera LIED and said yes (x, x, x) instead of, i guess, admitting they forgot about her. people were wondering about/critiquing that after 5x13 aired, and john was super disdainful about it. like “how dare people expect payoff, what losers” it was so weird. (he deleted that tweet lol. hopefully someone has a screenshot!)

said that they basically fired jason because quentin didn’t have any story left (then gave his book plots to various characters in S5...) and it would be a subversive move to do to the main character (people were going to write ARTICLES about their very brave, totally new twist!!!), and said that they told him at the end of season 3. after 5x13, their tune changed: jason wanted to leave, this happened at the end of season 4, and so they had to write him out. but john very much wants us to know that he didn’t plan to bring quentin back anyway (“i may have felt the strongest about this” okay john) (x) because it would ruin the message (two parapgrahs later: we wanted to bring the beast back from the dead because wouldn’t that be fun? give the actor a chance to have one last hurrah”). this is also the interview in which they kiiind of change their tune; quentin now “represents the lgbt community” and was in love with eliot, but, uh, it’s actually subversive to kill queer characters because “no one is a protected class when it comes to dying”....... and then he starts talking about covid-19..... the nerve!!!!

after 5x13 (end of april, possibly?) the showrunners were on the physical kids podcast, and john admitted to writing S5 out of spite because of the way the fans reacted to 4x13.

after 5x13 chris fisher said he drew inspiration on how to film quentin’s death scene from.... another example of a BYG scene (person of interest). while in the same breath denying it was BYG. (this was after john’s whole ‘no one is a protected class when it comes to death’ thing iirc.)

sean macquire said (on one of the PKW podcasts) that BYG isn’t an issue anymore because writer’s rooms are so diverse... and then a little while after sera (?) was like “the writer’s room is full of people who look and sound and act like your classic fairy tale hero dude”???

in, i think, late spring of 2020 the show’s clothes and props were being auctioned off. the official TM twitter account made a video to advertise the new trolls movie.... but said nothing of this. lev had to tell everyone about it.

he deleted this tweet but i knowwww someone has a screenshot of this. in july 2020, david reed tweeted: i had no idea how to write fen at first so i panicked and made her thirsty for eliot’s big d. (he was the one who, after 4x05, tweeted that teddy’s last name was coldwater-waugh. knowing what 4x13 was bringing!!!)

this remains ever true:

they did a lot of promotion after 4x05, but the article that sticks with me is this one (x)... “We frankly think it’s dumb to only give real story weight to stuff that basically looks like an old-fashioned heteronormative wedding cake topper.” i just can’t.

“Well, then. I will say what I wish my father had said to me. I’m so happy you’re dating a bear.”