I think the way the fandom talks about Satine and greater Mandalorian culture sometimes feels disingenuous.
Warning: This is long but it's comprehensive
I mean, to contextualise it, before (and after) the Prequels came out there had been years of Legends building up Mandalorian culture from the basis of Boba Fett alone. Even after meeting Jango Fett, another Faildolorian, the Mandalorians remained mysterious.
According to fans, they were a warrior-culture, based in honour. They operated in clan structures. They had their own code of ethics that went beyond the law. The most important thing to them was family.
And then we meet Satine Kryze, the current leader of the Mandalorians, and she's... a pacifist????
Satine doesn't fight, she doesn't wear armour, she booted all concepts of the Legends *Mandalorian culture* to a nearby moon. And, she commits the womanly cardinal sin -- arguing with a popular male character!!!
And then, the canon look into a more traditional Mandalorian faction comes from the Death Watch, pre-established in early 2000s Legends as the worst that Mandalorian society has to offer -- a race of warriors, yes, but without an honour code
In this frustration, it seems large sections of the Star Wars fandom rejected canon Satine and turned her into a Republic-loving, hypocritical violence-escaping, culture-colonising bitch.
A perfect antagonist for your fic about ickle baby Obi-Wan Kenobi.
Or a political radical on the level of Death Watch, with the True Mandalorians as the perfect middle ground.
Or just the local woman "getting in the way" of your mlm ship.
Initial Fandom Misconceptions - "Satine loves the Republic!" / "Satine is a pacifist and this is a bad thing!"
It shouldn't need to be said that Satine does not, in fact, love the Republic and refused to join them in TCW (2x14), instead creating a coalition of pacifists who did not take a side in the Clone Wars (2x13) -- a war that both sides are wrong in, I will remind you, and she is thus one of the only characters in TCW who isn't being manipulated by Palpatine in some way
It shouldn't need to be said that Satine does not, in fact, avoid violence entirely. She has a gun, guys. In fact, she says proudly in TCW, "Just because I'm a pacifist doesn't mean I won't defend myself" (2x13). The usual argument against her pacifism is that it makes Satine incapable of defending herself as seen in the takeover but, I shouldn't have to remind you, the entire takeover is manufactured. The Death Watch make a deal with Maul and his crime syndicates for them to pretend to takeover Mandalore, have Death Watch "defeat" them, and have the people put Death Watch in power (more on this later)
Satine does not like killing and... I'm surprised that's a hot take???? I don't know when every Star Wars fan suddenly became pro-war but I don't like it. Especially when Palpatine's whole plot was to get the Republic and the Separatists to destroy each other in war and then take over from the ashes. Satine is essentially one of the only thorns in his side that does not comply with this plan. If Death Watch was in charge, they would have already joined the Separatists and gotten Mandalore destroyed (they work with the Separatists already in TCW - 2x14)
You can argue it's unrealistic and I'll understand where you are coming from. But idealism isn't a bad thing, guys.
It's like saying - "well, you came on the internet and you aren't conventionally attractive, so you should expect to receive death threats!" No. You should not expect anything like that at all. You should demand more of the human beings around you. If you lack idealism, nothing is ever going to change.
Society should be way more idealistic in my opinion. How is Satine ever going to end war and conflict across the galaxy without protesting against it? What do you expect her to do?
You can agree more with Obi-Wan's philosophy - fight a war to end a war - and I can understand that, but you can put yourself in Satine's shoes and understand where she is coming from too, right? Because, ultimately, if you protest against a war but then enter it yourself, you're a hypocrite. Obi-Wan is a hypocrite. Canon information BTW.
Also Satine's pacifism is grounded in Mandalore specifically, no other planet. It is Mandalore that has been destroyed by years of war. Her main idea is that they should stop the years of war. Her politics are a response to the state of her planet, which was bordering on collapse, not the galaxy as a whole.
"Satine colonised the Mandalorian culture"
On culture... this one becomes more complicated. Mostly because it's a delicate subject I want to phrase right.
The way I see it, the fanon image of Satine ruining, rejecting, and colonising Mandalorian society seems to be based in the idea that Mandalorian culture is something its not.
The best way I can phrase it is to use real-world examples:
Fanon tends to think of Mandalorian society as akin to the destruction of the millions of Native American in various communities undergoing the process of ethnic cleansing and being extracted from the land that is their birthright by an oppressive invader White government.
Canon tends to think of Mandalorian society as akin more to the countries of Scandinavia, changing from years of pillaging and violence across Europe as the expansionist warrior-race the Vikings to Woke Leftist Socialist nation that it has chosen to become in the 21st Century.
(Sidebar - obviously neither of these are perfect comparisons. The evolution of Scandinavia and the destruction of the Native Americans were a lot more gradual than the change from war-based Mandalore to peace-based Mandalore. Alternatively, we get no indication of any ethnic cleansing on the scale that the United States government commits at all. Also Mandalore is a lot more fragmented - not on the level of the different Native American communities, but also not as conjoined as countries like Norway, for example. Native Americans have more active insurgents that comparisons can be drawn to in TCW canon, but Viking culture seem to be more in line with the dark history of expansionist Mandalore. No comparison is going to be 1-to-1 but I hope you can see the same links I do)
This is where it gets tricky.
If you view Mandalorian society suffering the same fate as the communities of Native Americans, justifying Satine makes you an absolutely awful person. How can you justify genocide? What is wrong with you?
If you view Mandalorian society as transforming from an abusive warrior race to a society of modern lefties, you applaud the change. How could you not? This new society is more fair and less mean, the people are happier, say yay to woke.
Then the morality politics come into it.
I bet at least one person who read this (if anyone got this far đđ) thought "how can you defend the genocidal regime of the New Mandalorians and the oppressive dictatorship of Satine Kryze, operating on the same level as the British Empire to the natives?! You're a horrible person and therefore don't deserve an opinion!" Once this point is passed, it is difficult to have a constructive conversation about Mandalorian culture.
A lot of people on the Internet see: Satine=bad person -> OP=defending Satine -> OP=bad person. Commence death threats.
Of course, I don't think Satine's government is perfect. I often don't like the way Filoni wrote it. I mean, you can't just boot all the terrorists on your planet onto a nearby moon, American prison industrial complex who? But I'm realistic and I know it is a kids show. If you take what Filoni does say, with all the binary black-and-white thinking, Satine comes out a good person and leader, based on good Scandinavian leaders not oppressive American presidents.
Ultimately, we have to ask- was it a genocide? More on that at 6.
"Satine is racist - look at all the white people around her!"
Now there are the racial politics.
The epitome of Legends Mandalorians is Jango Fett: a brown man played by an Aboriginal actor.
The pinnacle of Satine's New Mandalorian society is naturally Satine: a White Woman.
And (from the clips we get of Sundari) she seems to be surrounded by people who look the exact same as her (fair hair and skin), like that one guy who died in her arms (2x12) and those kids from the Korkie episode (3x06), with a lack of alien races
But then we remember that, well, most of the members of Death Watch that we see also seem to be White and Human (4x14), including the Ultimate Death Watch guy, Pre Vizsla. And then we remember that a whole lot of characters in TCW TV Show seem to be White and Human...
Look, Legends gave us a more diverse picture of Mandalore, yes. Canon is not legends.
The racial issues in Mandalore don't necessarily need to be taken up with Satine but maybe instead with Dave Filoni. We all know how badly the Clones were whitewashed, so this criticism of Mandalorian society feels disingenuous to me. Non-white characters (that were established in TCW) include: Saw Gerrera, Saw Gerrera's sister... and I guess Hondo has an accent?
(Later exceptions to this would be the Wren Family from Rebels, Latino Pedro Pascal's Din Djarin, Koska Reeves is played by a Latina actress, etc, and these characters are all DW-related.
But none of these characters were established in TCW when they were less concerned about diversity.
And, like, we don't get any further information on the New Mandalorians after Satine's death. Her philosophies could be upheld by Twi'leks and Rodians for all we know. You can't genuinely claim that the New Mandalorians are less diverse than Death Watch based off canon information.)
(Also, sidebar, but Mandalorian society being White, Blond, and Blue-Eyed makes a whole lot of sense for character design when you take in the fact that they were based on Scandinavian countries)
(Sidebar to the sidebar, but the Mandalorians all looking the same makes a lot of sense for character design when you take in the fact that this was easier for the animators to animate. Especially when its background characters who don't have lines. Especially when its shitty Season 2 TCW animation. Especially when this is a show for kids who need visual cues that these people all come from the same place, easiest done by making them all look the same)
If you take the decisions the writers and animators made and what was typical of them based off the greater show, it isn't surprising that Mandalore is full of white people. But that doesn't mean it isn't still a visual cue. Legends Mandalorians seem to be very diverse, as does society post-Satine, so (while it pains me to say) this assumption is understandable. But this is an assumption based in a headcanon with very little canon basis.
Is it a genocide? Authorities remain unsure. Like, go for your life on this one, because there's ultimately nothing I can do to disprove it, but know there is very little canon founding for this.
Mandalorian Culture - Genocide, Yay or Nay?
The amount of fics I've seen which glaze the years of Mandalorian warrior-culture are insane. I've read fics where the author swears up and down that any planet the Mandalorian Empire invaded actually wanted to join and willingly allowed them to take over. I've read fics where characters get forcibly converted into the Mandalorian culture in literal ethnic cleansing and the author promises that, actually, it's alright, because Mandalorian expansionist culture is just that superior. Crazy takes.
Mandalore's planet surface has been obliterated by years of war and conquest. The ecosystem is destroyed. Literally, destroyed. Satine's entire philosophy is that further fighting is not productive or sustainable. She's trying to save the Mandalorian people, guys.
And to pretend that changing from the dark Mandalorian past was all Satine's idea is insane! To lurch into Legends: it was obvious change was needed to many Mandalorians, like Jaster Mereel, who is also a reformist. Some Mandalorians are more conservative, sure, but any idiot can see that warrior-based Mandalorian culture is not sustainable. Not for the planet, or the people.
Moreover, if Satine is such an annoyingly 'weak and defenceless pacifist', then how can she also be a brutal and oppressive dictator, leading a government that forces peace on her citizens (you know, the warrior race)? It seems entirely contradictory.
Beskar is expensive. War is a rich man's hobby. Average Mandalorians have families they need to provide for. Most ordinary people don't have the time or liberty to debate politics, culture and heritage, and philosophy. Especially in a galaxy which is at war on the scale of WW2, leading to a very shaky economy. Is it truly that crazy to think that maybe some people decided to hang up their armour? As it says on Wookiepedia, in relation to how the Mandalorian population reacted to the New Mandalorians, "Because a majority of Mandalorians saw no lasting benefit to mercenary expertise in warfare, much of the civilian population of Mandalore harbored sympathies for the New Mandalorians and supported the faction". Before coming into power, there were multiple factions and the New Mandalorians were popular. End of story.
The New Mandalorian movement also does not entirely reject Mandalorian culture. As it says on Wookiepedia, "The New Mandalorian faction sought to reform Mandalorian society along peaceful lines by channeling their culture's best aspects away from self-destructive warring". To view Mandalorian culture simply as war, guns, pow pow, armour, war, is a gross oversimplification of what we are offered in the greater Star Wars universe. Armour is cool character design but culture is so much more than how you look. Din Djarin didn't stop being Mandalorian because he chose not to kill a Jedi. Kal Skirata didn't stop being Mandalorian despite training Republic troops. Satine Kryze didn't stop being Mandalorian despite being a pacifist.
Satine is not betraying Mandalorian principles by being dishonourable (because she isn't), or joining the Republic (because she doesn't), or even to allow herself happiness in loving a Jedi (because she refuses) and, despite all her politics, she takes corruption head on when she sees it (3x05). This is all done for her people. She also takes care of the family she has left in her nephew. What can be more Mandalorian than that?
Yes, she doesn't want more war, armour, or weaponry. Yes, Satine is authoritarian and I also feel weird about the exile to Concordia. Yes, cultural suppression is still harmful.
But where is the line between suppression and reform? If the decision made to change the culture was done by the majority within the culture, can we really say that this culture change was genocidal? I just don't think its enough to qualify.
Also genocide is such an emotionally charged word with a lot of history and it feels disrespectful to apply it to this animated Star Wars show for kids. Not saying you can't or dismissing any genuine arguments but, guys, let's be careful
"Satine became the Duchess only through Republic Intervention"
Then there is the argument of Satine being helped by the Jedi when the planet was at civil war (when she fell in love with Obi-Wan Kenobi). So let's discuss what actually happened to put Satine on the throne.
Again, to refer to Wookiepedia here, it is notable that at this time, Satine's father (Adonai Kryze) was the Duke of Kalevala. According to his page, "During the wars, Kryze emerged as a warlord of House Kryze and gained respect from his enemies, including Death Watch." He was not a New Mandalorian supporter for a really long time, so stop writing him like that.
Furthermore, before Civil War broke out, the New Mandalorians were the most popular faction.
According to Wookiepedia, Satine was currently the leader of the faction, and the New Mandalorians were "enjoying support from their people and seeing the power held by the ruling warriors slipping, the New Mandalorians began cultivating their strength to challenge the minority of martial traditionalists, who had resorted to violence to maintain control" - this is referring to factions like Death Watch who are currently in the minority. The New Mandalorians, and subsequently Satine Kryze, were the most popular political faction. They did not force anybody into following them.
It is 42 BBY when Civil War officially breaks out
(Notably, in Legends, this could have been about the same time as the Battle of Galidraan - most sources cite the battle as happening in 44 BBY. This means there is possibly an intersection before the battle where both True and New Mandalorian factions exist and the New Mandalorians might have even been more popular in this time period than the True Mandalorians... suck it Jango)
(Also, if Satine and Obi-Wan are the same age, she is 15 when war officially breaks out and she has been the de facto leader of the New Mandalorians before this - Obi-Wan was born in 57 BBY)
After war does break out, Adonai Kryze realises that further fighting will not help the situation. According to his page, "Kryze realized through the long course of the war that constant fighting would not bring prosperity for Mandalore, and thus he sent his daughter, Satine Kryze to Galactic Republic capital of Coruscant to study diplomacy". Finally, he saw the "merit of the peace movement" of the New Mandalorians and viewed this faction as the way forward. Satine received education in diplomacy to encourage peace over war in her political career.
When Satine was away, Adonai was killed - apparently "protecting Mandalore" according to Bo-Katan. Satine returned to Mandalore afterwards and, as her father's eldest child, inherited all his titles and became the Duchess of Kalevala.
This is the important bit so let's read Wookiepedia:
"Satine became the technical leader of the Mandalorian people by assuming her father's titles".
It is through no oppression of her own, nor intervening on behalf of the Republic, or even conquest, that Satine is made leader of the Mandalorians. She inherited the title from her dead dad.
This does not mean she didn't earn it though. Before the war, she was already the leader of the New Mandalorians (at around age 15 and below). During the war, "Kryze continued to work hard with the New Mandalorians on their home front" and they were strengthened through her leadership.
But, being a known pacifist, her rise to power was very controversial. She was attacked by Death Watch forces who sent Bounty Hunters after her.
It is only here that the Republic intervenes.
And all they do is protect Satine, taking her off-planet to do so and, therefore, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan don't intervene further in the fighting.
Yes, it is for Republic interests that Satine is made the leader -- she is young (and female đ misogyny exists in Star Wars too) so likely easier to manipulate, she isn't as violent or volatile as Pre Vizsla so she's a safer neighbour. They don't realise the trouble she eventually will be during the Clone Wars...
But, regardless of Republic interference, it was Satine's rightful position through inheritance. Beyond that, she earned her place as the rightful leader of her faction. Moreover, she was the popular choice with the people. To pretend that she was only made leader of Mandalore because of the Republic is just plain wrong!
Also you can't pretend she didn't earn her position. Not only was she leader prior to the war and partly during it but, when the New Mandalorians won, she was expected to be the leader on her return to the planet by her party and her people. She sacrificed her happiness with Obi-Wan for her duties to her people. She focused on rebuilding the planet and the government after so many years of war and such a high death toll.
And she did it successfully so that, in about 20 years, Mandalore is a seriously powerful planet that is a real threat to both the Republic and the Separatists, despite refusing to fight in their war
Also also to get mad at her for working with the Republic as "part of her politics" when she's-
1. Young
2. Mourning her father
3. Facing death head on
4. Is shown to reject working with the Republic later in life very explicitly - she goes on the run from them when they try to kill her, for God's sake (2x14)
To claim she's a sympathiser because of this feels so disingenuous. She clearly doesn't believe want to work with them anymore and did so out of necessity when she was young. People change and grow up. It's been 20 years.
And after the war ends, Satine exiles the people warring against her. And, as I said earlier, I don't love this decision, but I can see where Satine (and her writer Mr Filoni) were coming from. The people she exiles, they aren't just people who disagree with her, or even simply political opponents: They were trying to kill her. What was she supposed to do? And I will reiterate, these warring traditionalist are a vast minority. Also the death toll from the war is extremely high so a lot of them were probably dead as they lost the war. Yeah, she put people committing war crimes in jail.
While saying that, it is authoritarian. Yes, this is Death Watch. Yes, it's practical, but it still isn't ethical. She is suppressing dissenters. Like, blah blah blah, the line between freedom fighters and terrorists is non-existent, blah blah blah. On the other hand, this is a kids' show. Filoni did not debate the ethics of imprisoning terrorists in his writers room.
Overall, yes, a legitimate criticism of Satine is the imprisonment of Death Watch terrorists. But like, if that's the line of disliking a Star Wars character, I have bad news for fans of any another character in the entire universe. There are compilations of war crimes that our protagonists commit on Youtube right now.
I've touched on it but we have to go into it. I will reiterate, Satine was not a perfect leader and her government was fragile. There are episodes discussing the corruption inside her political system. The galaxy is at war. And Satine is very quickly deposed...
As I discussed earlier, Vizsla hires Maul (and the crime syndicates Maul gathers) to pretend to takeover Mandalore. Then, once Satine's police can't hold them off, Death Watch swoop in and save the day. They win the war in the eyes of the people and so they have their support to take charge.
On the surface, this seems to be a very clear comparison. Satine's police fail to hold off the crime families while Death Watch defeat them. Obviously, the entire event was staged, but that hasn't stopped fans from claiming that this is the true issue of Satine's government - it is unprotected.
But like, IDK if we remember, but we know what happened after Death Watch took the throne, right? Maul won against Vizsla in combat and all the Mandalorians that were loyal to him were defeated by Maul and his men and forced to run (including Bo-Katan). Like, the same thing happened to them. Satine's policemen had no chance against Maul's men as Death Watch (the epitome of the traditional Mandalorian warrior-race faction) also failed. Satine's defeat does not reflect the problems in her pacifist policies if the anti-pacifist also doesn't win the fight.
Again, definitely issues in Satine's government. Corruption is rife. The system is fragile. But you can't blame that on her pacifism, it doesn't hold up.
Just want to re-cap some common fanon claims because I feel like they lurch into misogynny
Woman is naĂŻve and doesn't understand how war works (despite having fought in a war)
Woman challenges Local Man so she is annoying
Woman had some help in getting into power so she is illegitimate and didn't earn her place
Woman had some help in getting into power but she isn't always the most grateful and sweet person so she is rude and annoying
Woman loses battle and therefore none of the battles she has won matter, none of the circumstances around the loss matter, and she is stupid
Woman is Woman and overtly hating women is bad - but she is also a White Woman and it's fine to hate women if you put white in front of it
Woman is Woman - why put Woman in charge when you have Man who is clearly just such a better leader than Woman, despite being Jango Fett.
Woman is leader who makes mistakes. Woman is bad leader, regardless of any of the correct things she also does.
Woman is leader who does do bad things. Woman is bad leader, regardless of any of the good things she does.
Woman is Woman and acts so very womanly. Fandom wants Man who is Male with a Male warrior-culture, not like weak and peaceful Woman
These claims, while some are accurate, are disproportionately geared towards hating Satine for the crime of being a Woman. Male characters get away with so much more and have their competency doubted much less.
Satine, as far as canon is concerned, is a Mandalorian.
She is not an interloper nor a coloniser; she is not Republic-loving and refused to take part in their war (2x14) and she chose to serve her people over loving a (Republic-based) Jedi (2x13); whenever issues arise in Mandalore's government, she faces the problems head on and gets her hands dirty (3x05).
As far as canon is concerned, Satine is not a perfect leader, but she endeavours to be so, consistently putting her people first.
There is understandable anger at Satine Kryze the Fictional Character for being the representation of missed opportunities. Filoni had the chance to put a more Legends-based Mandalorian society into TCW and he decided not to. Star Wars fans get mad at anything that breathes so it isn't surprising this got so many people riled up. And the later love for 'The Mandalorian' TV Show demonstrates how popular traditionalist Mandalorians really are with fans.
I'm trying not to glaze, I really am. Satine isn't a perfect leader and there is a lot of corruption in her government (literally, there's an episode of TCW called 'Corruption' just talking about it - 3x05). She loses against the Death Watch plot (5x15). Maybe you hate what she is in Legends. Maybe you find her annoying, or preachy, or boring, that's not my business.
But to get angry at her, and get other people angry at her, for symbolising something she does not symbolise? To be angry for politics that I'm scared you don't agree with? To get mad at her for not wanting to put her people through fighting in a war? To blatantly lie about her politics? To blatantly lie about how she got her position of power?
And to claim that none of it is grounded in misogyny is laughable.
