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One.

After that she's right there with Will. She goes with him Everywhere.

It's as if she, after her talk with Will, switched from "I need to keep Will safe so I will take and keep him with me and stay at places that are far away from the danger" to "I need to keep Will safe so I will follow him everywhere and always be right there at his side, holding his hands so that I can make sure he's safe even when he's surrounded by danger". Which is not "trusting your child and letting them do their thing while you're working on not being so overprotective". Like not at all.

When they rescued the kids from the macz she stays behind waiting for Will and Mike with the last few kids while she lets Lucas, a 16 year old boy btw, walk back alone while he also has to protect and guide scared young children, who don't know what's going on and are in real danger of being abducted. She Lets Him Do That even though one adult with one group of kids and three teenagers with one group of kids would be much more reasonable and safe. But she doesn't do that. Instead she stays with Will instead, not Right at his side, but she waits for him to make sure he's okay.

When Will passes out during the battle, Joyce is the one carrying him even though Mike, who is taller and likely better on his feet, would be the more reasonable option when it comes to who carries Will in a high stress situation like that. But instead she Again lets a teenager guide children though an active battlefield just so she can hold Will and keep him as close and safe as possible.

When they all come up with the plan to connect Will to the hive mind through the demogorgon, it seems like she's trusting him more, but does she really? Sure, in that moment she allows him to possibly mind fight Vecna... but when he gets reconnected to the hivemeind, who is there standing right behind him? Mike and Joyce!! She is the first person to lean over him when he looses consciousness, she stays right next to him when he's passed out, sitting close to the couch and then with him on the bed, she doesn't even go outside with Mike when El and the others arrive back at the wsqk building!!! And I get it, her son is literally passed out, probably stuck in Vecna's evil memorys and it makes sense she would want to be by his side until he wakes up, but... come on that is not a mother overcoming her overprotective trust issues.

And even after Will wakes up she's still with him like, all the time. The others go to pick up/get out Max, Lucas, Robin and Vickie from the hospital and Joyce stays behind with Will. She sits right next to him when he comes out, she stands next to him at the top of the tower in the upside down, she stays with him in the Abyss when Will starts having his Vecna mind connection again, they arrive together inside the dead Mindflayer so that she gets to kill Vecna, on the ride back she holds Will's arm and they lean on each other.

On the surface it's all cute and sweet and makes sense because Will is in so much danger all the time, but it's not healthy. And it certainly isn't the arc of a mother overcoming her fears of loosing her child by working through her overprotectiveness.

I mean shit, even Hopper let El go into the Abyss by herself because he knew she needed to do that even though it wasn't safe and could possibly kill her without him being able to save or protect her in any way. Hopper Did kind over work through is overproteciveness in s5. In the end he trusted El to be strong and win against Vecna and she Did Win!!! Why were Joyce and Will not allowed to have that same arc??

It's pissing me off because Joyce is such a valuable character. She is so cool, she can do so much!!! Last season she Flew To Russia to go and save Hopper because there was a slight chance he was still alive. And she fucking did save him. She fought and won so many battles and she's so smart and notices a lot of things other people don't. They didn't do Anything with her this season. Her best moments this season were her scaring a demogorgon where it's later revealed that that wasn't actually her and instead Will; and chopping Vecna's head off even though he was already basically dead and defeated and it was really only added in for the emotional effect so they could have a flashback. Like. Joyce's biggest character moments didn't even Need her. She had no plot relevance!!! Instead they actually kind of made her a bit of a hindrance for the plot advancing...

Like, all they did with her this season was make her Will's protector which lbr should have been MIKE'S ROLE INSTEAD!! Though Will also just shouldn't always Need a protector... But if there was the want for a person who was putting a lot of focus on staying with and protecting Will, while also having that dynamic be balanced and not overbearing, then somebody like Mike, who has always been Will's protector, would fit that role much better than his mom. It's not balanced. Joyce's way of protecting Will is too much Because she is his mom. If there is somebody who protects Will it needs to be a person who is on the same level as Will. LIKE MIKE!!!!

So yeah idk this has been bugging me the whole time. Joyce was reduced to 'scared overprotective mom' and they even Adressed It In The Show and then. Didn't change it. Why??

Ngl it also kind of lessens the awesomeness of a lot of Will's scenes for me. Will wants to do so much and he has so much strength and power and Joyce is pulling him down. He needs to become his own person, he needs to be responsible for himself, he needs to be able to be in danger and get out of it without his mother standing right next to him all the time. It also reduces Will's character a little. It's as if Will can only fight Vecna in his mind if Joyce is next to him. It makes it seem like he couldn't do it on his own...

Will's coolest scenes and his biggest moments of character devellopment happened when Joyce wasn't immediately there for him. The field scene with Mike, all of his talks with Robin and seeing Robin and Vickie kiss in the hospital. The sorcerer scene!! Even him trapped in his own memory with Vecna looking through his mind was character devellopment because it lead to Will coming out. Hell, even his talk with Mike on the radio tower. And it's just all these In Between Moments that happen Right when Joyce isn't there to hold Will's hand for it.

Both Will and Joyce are incredible characters with so much strength and power and they can do So Much. But if you keep them stuck together like glue for the whole damn season, then they're not actually getting anywhere. Because they will instead just stop the other from reaching their full potential.

And also lastly I am making this a bit about byler because I feel like Joyce always being there with Will was a big reason for why him and Mike didn't have many moments alone together. And They Show Mike wanting to be with Will, stay at his side, hold him, care for him, talk to him so much!! But he can't do any of that because Joyce is always there too!!! And I'm not saying it's Joyce's fault that byler didn't happen, but it does feel a little off that all the potential byler scenes (Mike holding Will's hand when he passes out in shock jock, him briefly carrying Will during the macz battle, Mike possibly staying with Will in the abyss) all get blocked because Joyce is there instead, doing all the things for Will that Mike wanted to do for him too. And again all the byler moments we get happen in between scenes, right when Joyce isn't looking for a second or is in reach but still far enough away that they can have a moment to speak alone.

It's truely so frustrating cause I noticed recently how few moments Will and Mike have that are truely just the two of them. That are true vulnerable moments of them talking and being open and getting closer, without the possibility of somebody else always barging in at any minute. The only scene I can think of is the radio tower scene. Every Other Scene there are always other characters present in it too. Like even when they can't hear them speak, they are still there and so the moment can never feel truely intimate and special. And there was so much Potential for them to have scenes like that but they never actually happened because Joyce Was There too...

Mike seems uncharacteristically self-conscious around Joyce, deferring to her to the point of submission when it comes to Will.

Unless I'm forgetting, he didn't have shit to say to Joyce about being too overprotective of Will or having crappy plans. It's like he's unable or unwilling to say anything against her.

Even after the "whiz away" scene in The Crawl, some people might have been mildly embarrassed or laughed it off. But Mike says "Shit...." like he fucked something up.

And one scene that stands out to me is when Will gets KO'd in Shock Jock. Mike comes running to Will's side and gets there first. He's about to put his hand on Will but stops himself so Joyce can do it, deferring to her to be Will's protector.

This is completely out of line with everything we've ever seen from Mike being absolutely deranged (/aff) when it comes to Will.

S2 made it very clear that HE wants to be Will's comforter and protector, and will literally snap at any Party member who tries to take that role away from him. Back then he was respectful to Joyce, but wasn't above doing whatever it took to see Will when he was in trouble.

Even as recently as The Crawl, Mike seemed to want to have the monopoly on touching Will. Lucas reaches out to comfort Will after one of his episodes, and Mike gives him a Look and Lucas removes his hand, letting Mike take over. Even when Lucas and Dustin are trying to comfort Will, Mike can be seen basically stepping over and around them to fight for access to Will.

?????

(full credit Threat Level Mom-Night on tiktok - please watch her mike wheeler series if you haven't already it's insanely good)

All of us remember how THIS both metaphorically and literally queer, vampire Mike sent Will to the city of Vallaki as his 'happily ever after.'

To Vallaki, where Will can forget about Hawkins, forget about Mike, and finally find love in someone else.

Guess who else is sent to Vallaki in Curse of Strahd? Ireena Kolyana— the reincarnation of Strahd’s deep, doomed love. The woman he pursued. She was sent to Vallaki to be safe from Strahd's gaze.

Which is why it bothers me so much that people will dismiss it without considering. I want to think it’s not real, but absolutely nobody is providing substantial proof to argue against it—it all just boils down to condescension, calling the duffers stupid and theorists over thinkers.

So, I want everyone calling conformitygate theorists stupid, or delusional, or crazy, or psychotic, or every other weirdly nasty name people have come up with to actually properly refute conformitygate evidence for me:

People say the time spent filming, overall screentime, and budgeting ultimately doesn’t add up for the content we received. When compared to season 4, we have 6mo of filming vs 1yr. 13hrs total screentime vs 10hrs. 270mil vs 400-480 (round it to 440 to play it safe, each ep costed 50-60mil). Explain why it does add up.

They claimed to have studied bad and good endings immensely to understand what is often received well and what isn’t and avoid what isn’t. They even put emphasis on game of thrones specifically. They destiel’d mileven, GoT’d killing the mindflayer, GoT’d the documentary, and lord knows what else (my tv media consumption consists almost exclusively of bobs burgers, Rick and Morty, and niche queer shows that get cancelled before they get to have bad finales, so I can’t point out any parallels that haven’t been pointed out by others, and I’m probably not online enough to see everything). Explain how they studied bad finales specifically to avoid it, only to do what they did—especially GoT, right down to the documentary.

El’s entire storyline in season 5 contradicts her previous 4 season arc of self-discovery. She became a weapon and a monster. She snapped a persons neck without hesitation or reaction, she looked a man dead in the eye while forcing him to kill himself without missing a beat. That’s not a subtle change or accidental minor mischaracterisation, that’s a complete contradiction of the goal their character has worked towards for the past 4 seasons. Explain why her story this season contradicts her previous arcs so heavily.

The duffers are being accused of AI usage during scriptwriting, and using Ross’s ex-wife to give the show the quality it had (ignoring how offensive that is to the female writers on the show, one of whom was the writer of the play everyone adores), and yet they are doing very little to dispute these rumours. The interviews they did after Vol3 immediately turned them into laughingstocks, PR found dead in a ditch apparently. Explain why they’ve done almost nothing the shield themselves from the hellfire raining down upon them (that’s not an intentional pun).

The writing of stranger things has had its flaws here and there, like most shows or books do, but it’s always stuck to its core values (love defeats fear, protect outcasts/freaks). Explain why it did a complete 180 in season 5.

The lights are still flashing when el and Nancy arrive, and hol can still be heard screaming once they’re inside, so the time between the attack and el and Nancy getting inside will have been 45 seconds at most (being generous). In Hollys memory, Karen is lying on to floor, eyes open, chest not moving (they even accentuate this by panning down to her for a few seconds). Yet in E2, she’d managed to drag herself over to the counter and stand up and grab the phone. Explain why they made the choice to show that the demo was still in the house at the point that they showed up, and to show Karen unmoving in Hollys memory.

People claim the WYR question “be stuck in the upside down with your best friend, or live in paradise shackled to your worst nightmare” is far too reminiscent of what conformitygate is to be a random question. Explain why it is random.

The documentary has at least one undoubtedly scripted scene, another that’s been heavily speculated to be scripted. It managed to point out just about every flaw with the finale, focused heavily on the duffers essentially just being incompetent and everyone around them judging them (if it’s not real then this is actually just really funny honestly, totally lost respect from all their employees), and evidently showed us a previous draft that gave us a far better storyline. Explain why, despite the at least 1 scripted scene and the duffers being made to look like complete buffoons to the point where the GA was fired up over it, the documentary is still sincere (using the term loosely because we do already know at least part of it isn’t).

Will and mike have multiple wardrobe designs that parallel lovers whose memories of the other are taken:

Explain why it’s not intentional, or what the parallel is about if not that.

The images of the clown cake and circus tent show us that birthdaygate was (more than likely) real. Under the assumption people will argue the storyline was simply cut (I’ve seen different arguments as to why), explain why they would allow for bts to be posted that proves a well-known theory they are aware of was cut.

Barbs body was brought up prior to the release, saying it would be in S5. The actor was at the premiere. BTS images show her body in at least two locations: the church and the pool. Explain why they would talk about it, and allow for bts to be posted if it was cut.

People have pointed out that the leaks of the ending were suspicious. There were multiple high quality shots of Mike and hopper talking together, showing enough of the set to give a timeframe, immediately leading to the theory that el would die or fake her death. This was the biggest twist (twist being used loosely) of the series, and it was leaked with no attempt to quell it (as far as I’m aware, please correct me if they did try to snuff it out). Explain why it was so easy to leak the biggest twist of the series and why they didn’t try to keep it quiet.

Dnd games foreshadowing events in the show, yet vecna having a fakeout death (and noteably coming back missing an arm, cough cough) was never realised. Explain why that game wasn’t foreshadowing, despite the previously established rule.

Following up, the foreshadowing of the season 3 game in which Mike injured his arm and sacrificed himself—we see the beginning of the foreshadowing coming into the show when he hurt his arm in E4, only for the rest never to be carried out and his arm miraculously being okay afterward. Explain why the foreshadowing was suddenly abandoned, and why they put focus on mikes arm only for it to be okay.

The wsqk episodes evidently sync to the actual episodes, with multiple audio cues that heavily point toward the sync being intentional. Parts of the episodes are completely recontenxtualised by the music choices. Explain why it isn’t intentional, or why it doesn’t play into conformitygate.

The season has multiple parallels to the Truman show, some noteable ones being the lightbulb drawing framed over Truman vs the wormhole/upside down drawing framed over will, the eagle on the wsqk van vs the eagle on the boat Truman used to escape, wills epilogue outfit being reminiscent of Truman’s love interest (as referenced above), & more. Explain why these parallels are not intentional, or how they’re relevant in the show, just not to conformitygate.

Digdug foreshadowed the tunnels in season 2, the video game Derek plays has a false ending before you get to the real final boss. Explain what the game foreshadows if not a false ending, or why it doesn’t foreshadow anything.

They have multiple abandoned/incomplete (some foreshadowed) storylines or arcs, such as romantic development between Mike and Will, Wills forgotten birthday and his birthday being the same as Henry, the continued love overcomes fear arc that plays a part in each finale, patty newby, Henry’s trauma, mikes hero arc (and foreshadowed battle with Will, which leads me to believe should conformitygate be real, he’ll be the final boss), the time travel references and the UD being stuck on the day Will was taken, Will being revealed as vecnas builder, Wills connection to the hivemind. Some were introduced this season, which means forgetting due to time is not a valid argument. Explain why we have all these meticulously (byler, birthdaygate, time travel, patty/henrys trauma, love overcoming fear specifically are the ones I’m referring to as meticulous) set up arcs left suddenly abandoned.

Joyce puts on a play within a play, the fake “Oklahoma” play before the real play, saying that it’s a risk, but it’ll be worth it if they can pull it off. So the writers clearly are aware of fake-outs. Explain why Joyce’s play doesn’t work in favour of conformitygate.

We also have the “sad ending vs gay ending” script from Joyce’s play, with bylers colours, and the song not finishing in the credits (“you never know the ending until it’s sung all the way through”, credits finish on “we can be heroes”, right before the next lyric “we’re nothing, and nothing will help us”). Explain why they gave us a sad ending, don’t plan to give us a gay one, and why the song doesn’t finish on the credits.

Millie called season 5 “meta”, when we have not yet seen any meta content. Explain why she would call it meta.

Episodes 2-8 are yet to be copyrighted, episode 1 was registered after 5 days. Explain why they haven’t copyrighted them yet.

People have noted these potential “hints/clues” the ending:

- no watches show the time (I’ve gone through scenes frame by frame, it’s not a matter of bad lighting or quality)

- Jon’s camera does not show the date

- whatzit game in basement and cabin (killer is not dead trope)

- robin saying, “I am almost too superstitious to say this […] but I think the Hawkins curse has finally lifted”.

- Mike and Nancy being copies of their parents, when that is each their biggest fears

- gowns being orange, despite the fact that orange was closely associated with prisoners in the 80’s (and still is), and the gowns were green in Nancys book, but they were orange when Henry went there.

- Robin hoping she would double her audience by the end of the year (only if will can out-sorcerer the sorcerer and they don’t all die), and promising to take Vickie to enzos (if they make it out alive), neither evidently happen in the epilogue.

- Will being erased from the scene where his birthday was forgotten, and the small town boy album shapes in the background.

- the ticking leading into the epilogue (which immediately opens with another brick in the wall)

- wills imagined epilogue boyfriend wearing a similar jacket to mike and the same hair (the actor does not have this hairstyle, so it was changed to look like that)

- the engagement ring jopper used being the jancy ring

- el in a wig being the clip they used right after she said “the real me”, and her entire speech being directly contradicted by the arcs for their relationship in the previous 2 seasons

- Mike not saying I love you, nor initiating the kiss

- the “m” on mikes dnd book holding the same shape as the cave/spyglass

Explain why all of these are coincidences/how they work in the show in a way that doesn’t feed into conformitygate.

Im not saying conformitygate is 100% real, i don’t want to believe in it (not saying I don’t want it to be real, just don’t want to believe in it), but I am yet to see any compelling arguments against conformitygate. So I am genuinely inviting people to please refute these (without being condescending). I’m fully aware there’s a ton more, but I’m so tired and my neck hurts, and I’m yet to organise the evidence I’ve seen in a fashion that makes it easy to navigate.

Me: hi, can I have the filet mignon please

Waiter: (brings out a stinking, day-old herring)

Me: uh hey, this isn't what I came here for. may I please have what I ordered

The Official Story Behind the Legendary Series is set to be released June 30th. If there is more content coming, I'm sure they'd want to talk about it in this book.

Setting up an ARG of this scale is basically unheard of, would have taken a huge amount of planning and secrecy, and there's no way it would be left out of a book about the show. In fact, I'm willing to bet it's what the book is mainly about.

We've had similar books before, like Worlds Turned Upside Down, the official behind the scenes companion:

That's already pretty comprehensive, right? So why do they even need to create this new book?

Well, someone apparently thought they did. Here is the description:

Okay....

Well, a lot of that sounds like what we've already seen, right?

But if they've been planning a Choose Your Own Adventure for years, possibly even since S2, there actually would be a lot more to discuss!

Now, worst-case scenario, the finale we saw was actually meant to be taken at face value and this book is just another soulless cash grab with nothing new to offer save some pics of Eddie's costume variants.

Second worst-case scenario, CG is real but it's going to be released even later than this book, and the secret bonus website is yet another puzzle to unlock and tease about it. I don't think this is very likely, but who knows!

My ideal scenario, they release something very soon, maybe at the Superbowl, and then maybe release the finished season/additional movies for Valentine's Day, or at the very latest Will's birthday.

The ONLY thing that's making me wonder about option 2 is the fact that we have some merchandise mentioning summer. The Bradley's Big Buy merch says something about a summer deal, or the sale expires August 5th:

That's a pretty random choice.

But I still don't think it would make sense to publish this official book without the remainder of the show!

Anyway, I hope you have a cool weekend!