Different anon, but I think Mina actually has more in common with Prince Naveen than Jasmine or Aladdin as well. They’re both pretty self-absorbed, entitled, spoiled, and emotionally immature.
When Jamil worries about getting in trouble for not addressing him as a prince, Mina brushes it off and keeps pushing until Jamil gives in. The whole scene feels like someone in power cornering an employee into doing something they’re not comfortable with. Even if the risk was low, it’s still not okay.
Mina comes from a very privileged place. Jamil even points out how much more freedom he has compared to him and Kalim. Mina’s never had to deal with assassination attempts, family plotting against him, or having his whole family forced to serve a family of asshole till they all drop dead. Yet he still treats his struggles like they’re on the same level.
What stands out most is how he frames everything. He only talks about how the system affects him, not anyone else. And he’s saying this to someone who’s literally bound to servitude for life. Mina’s super smart, so he has to know there are tons of people in worse positions. His situation is restrictive, sure, but it’s not the worst case. His actions could easily get someone else in trouble, and he doesn’t seem to think about that at all. He’s also a prince, so he could try to change things, but instead he just wants to run from responsibility.
That’s where the comparison to Jasmine falls apart. In Aladdin, Jasmine starts off wanting to escape, but she grows into someone who wants to fix the system and think beyond herself after seeing what life is like for the common folk. Mina never really makes that shift. He understands the system and even points out its flaws, but he still just wants out and leaves everyone else to deal with the aftermath.
That difference matters. Jasmine moves from escape to responsibility. Mina stays focused on himself, which makes him come across as self-absorbed, inconsiderate, and avoidant, especially toward people with less privilege.
Granted, I think a lot of this is because Mina isn't allowed to give him that character development to pull his head out of his own ass like what happened with Jasmine. But as is, he reminds me of someone like Naveen, who is a prince, but is unwilling to get off his ass and do something to make his or other lives better.
Honestly, if the game leaned into it, I could see him being like Naveen in another way too. Flirty, bouncing between situationships, and using that rebellious streak to push back against his parents.
To be fair though, he is clever, in the same way Aladdin and Jasmine are.
Let me start by saying thing much. I'm not out to act mean, nor rude, nor any of the above. I enjoy discussions and debates over characters, but, and I say this strongly, as someone who writes her own original stories, and a degree in Fiction writing (Yes, that is my BA that I got in college as part of the English Department at my University), and, for a long while, I studied Animation (art and understanding sprites) hoping to become one, along with teaching about Video Game design as my daytime job. All of this to say I do have my own biases and am very particular when it comes to Critical thinking, Media literacy and the viewing of games that use 2-D sprites, with a focus on visual novels, and their expressions. So before I continued I wanted to give a heads up about where my thought process is coming from, because I'm seeing a lot of players (and not just with Twisted Wonderland) not looking at this game (or other RPGs) as visual novels, which in most cases they are.
With that in mind, on with the discussion. (By the way all translations are screen shot from Valkrii so I'm using her translation for this until the Official one comes out.)
Why Hello there! waves Welcome to the discussion…
See, I'm not seeing this at all. There is a HUGE gulf in personality between Naveen and Minajael, and part of the issue is that people are just getting this off of just, what, a few minutes at most with the character. Bear in mind a portion of that is spent with Azul and Rielle, so Jamil and Mina only have, what would be about maybe 7 pages at most, by my best educated guess, of a manga if we view it as such.
How is Mina self-absorbed? I went back to where he was talking with Jamil and at no point does he come off as self-absorbed. Rather his lines imply he's not only talking about himself but also, subtly, hinting about others as well.
"Haah sigh…I'm thoroughly sick of that country's ridiculously outdated laws." "This is the Land of Dawning. And right now, you and I are just students. Right?"
Keep in mind Jamil's look when he first starts to talk to Mina. It's the same sneaky, sly, "I'm basically mocking you" look that is used to imply he's being sly and "full of it", and masking his real feelings towards the prince.
In these two lines Mina is establishing two things:
That he doesn't believe in traditions and rules, and more importantly…
He sees Jamil here as an equal and trying to get Jamil to also see him as such. Not to defer to him, not to bow or treat him as a prince. He's implying that Jamil doesn't have to act like he would back home.
This is very different here from Naveen who seems okay with the idea of tradition, or at least in that it fits his lifestyle which is basically being lazy and not one to want to work at all due to his upbringing. That is not what is shown with Mina in his conversation.
Mina bein entitled? Not sure on this one, as entitled is defined as "having a right to certain benefits or privileges". In his conversation with Jamil he seems to be rejecting this idea. He points out to Jamil that back home he has people constantly telling him what to do, how to do it, etc. indicating that he's not getting any freedom to do as he pleases, and, much like Leona and Malleus, he's being constantly watched. Actually it sounds more like he's got less freedom than the other two Princes we know because Leona (as the Spare and second Heir) could have more freedom to choose what he wants to do with his life (much like Our Ciel in Yana's own work could have chosen to become a toy shop owner/toy maker due to the fact that he wasn't the future Earl, that was his brother Real Ciel), and Malleus, seems to be able to freely go visit Lilia with no one with him to watch him prior to him going to Night Raven. Hell he gets lost on the grounds. So I'm curious, where is this entitlement that Mina is supposed to have? As watching the section with him never show's him bragging about anything that he's done, rather it's Jamil who brings any of that history up.
Naveen on the other hand, brags, a lot, early on in the movie. He outright says his goal is to find a wealthy woman to marry so he doesn't have to work and will get money so he can continue living his life as he sees fit, leisurely, and also being a bit of a playboy.
I'd like to know where the spoiled aspect comes in, because, again, at no point does he imply any of the things that he's known for in his conversation with Jamil. Rather, when Jamil keeps pushing him, using fake humility, Mina reminds him not to call him a prince, and that he wants to be unbound by the rules. Sounds familiar doesn't it, like a certain Vice Housewarden in a way. He also mentions about Kalim's Grandmother and that he sees her as courageous for going against the tradition and marrying into the Al Asim family, something that is against the rules and laws. Jamil then, to himself, comments on Mina's past, namely the sneaking out and getting into the media over that.
That moment is a call back to what Jasmine does. Her line to Aladdin is that she feels "Trapped" and Mina indicates this too in his conversation with Jamil, though in less of a direct way.
Mina wants to be free to decide his own fate, much like Jamil does.
The two have similar mindsets, even if Jamil doesn't clearly see it as Mina throws points to him about how, like Jamil, the rules that he has to go by are causing him similar issues in that, unlike Leona or Malleus, at home he can't break them, but here, in the Land of Dawning, he can actually be himself. His comment about how RSA has rules but still it's not stifling him, unlike back home.
Naveen on the other hand, is spoiled. Like Kalim he can't cook, or clean, it's right in his own Wiki article.
"Naveen is quite the freeloader and has spent all his life being waited on, never learning to do a thing for himself, including activities as basic as simple cooking. King and Queen of Maldonia finally had enough of the prince's lazy antics and excessive partying, and disinherited him from the royal family. Naveen now had to find some way to become self-sufficient in order to survive."
Where does the idea of lacking Emotional maturity come from? During his first intro he basically assesses Rielle's antics early on, noting that the younger Prince isn't staying still. If he was emotionally immature, he would have let Jamil get to him with all the "needling" he was doing in their conversation. Calling him Prince, even though he would know, as Kalim's Companion, that Mina doesn't want to be called a Prince. Bringing up the fact of the laws of the Scalding Sands, even though Mina is correct, they are in the Land of Dawning and Students meant to be equals since Jamil doesn't directly server Mina at all. Then acting coy and deliberately acting like Mina's giving him orders.
Mina just has a rather unhappy, or unpleasant expression on his face; the look reminds me very much of someone who is catching a person playing the humble type, and knowing that it's all just a mask hiding a judgey personality, which is EXACTLY what Jamil is doing. He's judging Mina based on certain facts he knows about the guy, something Leona called him out for in Book 6. Mina even notes this to himself, saying that Jamil is thinking he's spoiled and all that. Mina also seems to have clocked Jamil's mask, and denotes it to himself, and it sounds like, as with Leona, has heard the comments before regarding him being "Spoiled" and such. But unlike Leona, Mina seems to be using that to fuel his own determination to follow in his grandmother's footsteps.
Additionally, he also corral's Rielle, and stays on point regarding planning in order to win the game. He also tries to redirect the conversation with Jamil, hoping to make it more friendly and casual, and Jamil just keeps acting like Jafar, trying to be all "Yes your highness" in his answers. Yes he mentions wanting to be free to choose his own path, but isn't that also what several of the NRC boys mention too?! That they want to be unbound and to live life as they see fit for themselves. Something that Kalim has yet to even indicate, and something that Leona and Malleus are being allowed to do as they are not the heirs. Hell I would say Kalim is more a Naveen in certain ways than Mina is.
It feels like Yana is setting up a mirror reflection between Mina and Jamil in regard to their wants and goals. While not the same exact things, both want:
Freedom from their traditional roles.
The ability to not have to follow rules that they feel are unfair and unjust.
Be away from others who seem to have goals in mind of causing them to feel controlled and trapped in a cycle.
(This is partly why I tend to think Jamil has a bit of Genie in him over Jafar because Jafar never felt "Trapped" in his role he just wanted more power.)
Naveen IS emotionally immature. His wiki state's:
"Naveen was extremely spoiled, lazy, and vain at the start of the film, as a result of his privileged upbringing. Naveen's only concern was "living life to the fullest" by partying as much as possible—preferably with pleasurable company, as vocalized during "When We're Human". He had a strong disgust towards work or labor and hotly refused to ever engage in such activities, making attempts to avoid doing so at all costs."
This doesn't sound like Mina at all. Mina's concerns, based on the short time we have him seem to be:
Breaking of Traditions to ensure a happier life allowing him, and others, the chance to choose who they want to be with, who they want to connect with, and what sort of life they want to lead without having others dictate who they can be.
We know via Jamil and also it's mentioned about him, that he's someone who isn't afraid of work and doing things himself given he's part of the RSA Spelldrive team, and also based on Jamil's comment about his past in school.
So I'm not sure where all these ideas of Mina being Naveen are coming from, when it's clear based on his own animation that Mina is very much someone who does not enjoy being a prince. Doesn't like traditions and wants them to change, and seems to view actions of rebellion as courageous. That is the opposite of who Prince Naveen is all the way.
This wasn't Mina brushing it off. This was Mina trying to treat Jamil as an equal, and get him to treat him as one as well. It's Jamil who is choosing to act, and forgive me for using this term, snotty towards Mina. Mina even tries to switch out the conversation and make it more casual, focusing on Kalim's Grandmother and instead Jamil chooses to keep playing up a "humble" servant role over being himself and just talking to the guy, which is all Mina wants. Basically he wants Jamil to treat him and talk to him the same way Azul is casually talking to Rielle, and instead Jamil is acting the part of a "Noble" before a "Prince". (If he did that before Leona, who implied he doesn't like that sort of behavior, he'd probably be clocked by him -since we see that no one calls or treats Leona as a prince in his dorm.)
Nope. Jamil is the one making Mina feel uncomfortable. He's purposefully playing up the whole "Humble Servant" thing in order to get under Mina's skin because he still likes to judge people (as does Jafar). So if anyone is cornering someone, it's Jamil doing that to Mina. All Mina did was try to say hello and start up a conversation as two students would. See how the guys in Savanaclaw treat Leona, that's what Mina is just looking for with Jamil, just being a peer.
They are on neutral ground. Again if this was as big of a deal regarding how Royals are treated, then most of Night Raven should be bowing and acting with humility and using different language around Leona and Malleus. But you don't see others behaving in such a way around either of them. Nor does Azul behave that way with Rielle. He doesn't even call him "Your Highness". Azul, at least, is showing Respect and Peerage Equality to Rielle, something Jamil can't seem to do for Mina because he's…who knows: Jealous, doesn't like him, feels insecure or something about Mina being better than him, etc. Point being Jamil is being the one to set up the uncomfortableness of this situation from the get go.
As do a lot of NRC students. It's mentioned that both schools are considered Elite schools, and that they are probably based on Eton and several other British exclusive schools for the wealthy.
Nope. He says Mina has a right to choose, but Mina already says outright that he doesn't. People are constantly choosing for him. That's his point. Jamil is letting his biases blind him to what Mina was telling him. That he's not free to do a damn thing, even choose who to marry. Everyone meddles in his life. That's why he sneaks out. Mina can't just walk into the Market BECAUSE he is the Prince. Kalim and Jamil can just go there no problem. Mina had to sneak out and apparently got caught causing a stir in the media over it. Why, because, as with Jasmine, he's not allowed out of the fancy cage he's probably locked in. Both Kalim and Jamil can make their own friends. Reading anything about the history of how Royals live, their rules and what they are governed by based on what is and isn't allowed gives a very different POV on what Mina is talking about.
I'll give you a direct example. Queen Victoria, when she was stuck in the Kensington System (as set up by John Conroy her mother's secretary), could not walk up the stairs herself without someone constantly holding her hand, even if she wanted to walk up with holding the railing. She was told who to be friends with, where to go, who to talk to and how to live until she was 18 years old. Couldn't even visit her Uncle whom she was the Heir to. Not to mention Conroy tried to get her while she was with a crazy fever to sign a contract making it so that he would get to look over everything she did for the rest of her life when she was only 12, and she had to reject it multiple times until a doctor forced him out of her sick room. The Heir to a country is always on display like a bird in a cage, that's the whole point of Jasmine setting the birds free in the garden.
We don't know any of that yet. We've only had a few minutes of time with him, and the implications are pretty shitty on there own. He's watched like a hawk it seems, and people are deciding on his life and what he gets to do. For all we know the boy has to deal with a lot of crap that Jamil and Kalim don't. Look at Malles and Leona to get a glimpse of what I mean by.
He indicated and hinted more than is direct about things. Again, we've only had a few minutes with him. It took us several years to get to the point where we are with Leona and Malleus in regard to their full on goals for their own people and that was only with the Hometown event with Leona, we don't know what Malleus wants to do for the Fae exactly. Mina has only been introduced. If they had him spout all these goals, then it would be an info dump and people would HATE it, because that right there is terrible and lazy writing. You have to slowly, and carefully, over time, grow a character. Every character in Twist at the start of their introduction framed their desires as things they wanted then it branched out over the course of their story. Mina is just following a pattern here. (See Arial, or Aladdin, or even Moana, each one starts out wanting something for themselves and eventually we get to future desires on the Human Hierarchy Chart.)
Except that technically Jamil isn't bound for life. Once Kalim takes over, he can easily just say that Jamil is free to go as he pleases. Again, Kalim and Jamil's situation very much resembles Aladdin's and Genie's, where Aladdin can free Genie with the third wish. Same goes for Kalim, he can do this once he's in control.
I'm sure he does that's why he probably is also against the laws and traditions. He doesn't want Jamil to treat him like a prince, or have to follow unjust laws, he wants him to be able to have a perfectly civil conversation.
Having everyone choose what to do, who to marry even. Kalim nor Jamil has this problem. It's probably more restrictive than either of theirs in the long run.
He's a teenager. Of course he's not totally thinking about how his actions are going to effect everyone around him. But then again, has any teenage character thought about how people can get in trouble. Closest thing I can think of is Prince Soma, but even then Mina is far more mature than Prince Soma. Also see Malleus and Leona, but we give them passes all the time for their stupid actions. Leona pretty much caused a damn stamped, Malleus is always wandering off. That's not to mention how rejecting parts, like Vil does, can cause issues for movie studios who might be banking on him being in a show. Jasmine didn't think about her actions either, nor did a lot of the younger princesses, sans for like Snow or Cinderella, and Aladdin was nearly killed because of them since he was arrested for being with her.
He's a prince, he needs to be a sultan to do any changes. We don't know if it's his dad or his Grandpa who is in charge. Malleus can't change things until his Grandmother steps down. Leona would have to go through Falena to change things. How is leaving the palace to see what's going on outside of the walls and rebelling against the system running away from responsibility? I think being outside of the palace allowed him to see what's happening and that's why he wants to break from traditions on top of feeling trapped and isolated. There is a huge difference in him sneaking out and him just running away because he doesn't want to work, because it's implied very clearly that he's not against rules if their fair.
Uh…in the live action movie. Sure. In the animated movie, not as much. If we go with the series there's growth there. We only have a few minutes of Mina, not enough to judge if the comparison falls apart as all we get is the conversation with Jamil and Rielle. He does want to break the system though and rebel against it, as he wants to be like his Grand Aunt who rebelled against being a princess.
Because we barely have gotten to know him. It's his intro, not his whole life story. We've had him and Rielle officially for like, what, a month or so? Compare that to over 6 years of content from several NRC characters, and not to mention years of original, and alternative takes on Jasmine, it's not fair to say this at all. It's like saying that the lead of a book needs to make a shift in the first chapter of the book, or the first episode of a TV series when you're trying to just introduce them.
We don't know that. Again, we only know a very small bit about him at this moment. Kalim and Mina have to fill in the blanks themselves over the next several years, since it's likely that Twist will be continuing and they probably will be using RSA more frequently now that they're being introduced. If he's pointing out the flaws he's thinking about what to do, but like Leona and Malleus, he's got no power till he's on that throne. So saying this doesn't make any senses at this point in time regarding story telling. Until Queen Victoria's Uncle died, she couldn't change a damn thing, same goes for Mina. He can point it all out, but unless his father or Grandfather does something to change it, he's only got the actions he can take on his own, and that means focusing on himself. Same goes for Malleus too. Hell, he can't even get Lilia to be allowed back into the Castle town yet.
After two animated movies, a whole series, several books, and a live action movie, sure. That's over years, and again, we've only seen a few minutes of Mina, no more no less. We don't know the full extent of his thoughts on certain matters. Again, it took till Leona's Hometown event to fully grasp his thoughts on what he wants to do for his people. Most of his story has been about himself, same with Malleus. I really can't think of one teen character, maybe Moana and Raya, who start out with the whole being responsible, and even then Moana leaves partly for her own desires. The whole rule of Howard Ashman's "I want" songs.
How? No please. Tell me How he is acting any different than any of the NRC boys who do the same thing. He's not being rude to Jamil, he's trying to get him to talk as Equals like Rielle and Azul were. He's pushing for equality between them, and Jamil is rejecting that left and right because of his own views and, let's fact it, selfish and being a person who tends to be full of judging others as we've seen time and again with his character, which is just like Jafar. Mina is not being inconsiderate of Jamil at all. He's showing him respect. He could easily have ignored him, and acted vastly different towards him, but instead he tries to place them both on the same page as students and not as "Noble" and "Servant". He's not being self absorbed, nor is he acting avoidant towards Jamil in anyway.
Here again is the issue. We've only had him for ten, not even, minutes in game. We haven't learned enough about him to even say he gets to have character development when the character barely has had time to be introduced and only has had contact with the character that we know is supposed to be opposite and rival to him. We don't have development because we haven't seen him before now. The only thing we ever got was Kalim mentioning him, once. He's not even on Jamil's register since he didn't even mention him before at any time. Not even for the Hometown event. Given time, and most likely another season worth of content, (which I feel will come after book 8), we'll probably have more about him. There's going to be a deeper story here and we're probably going to be given more story and development about him in the future.
But Mina is nothing like Naveen. Not at all. He's shown in just the small amount of time to reject tradition, is rebellious, a hard worker and clearly studious, wants to change things, and finds his grandmother who rejects the idea of traditions and was willing to marry below her status (an act, mind that could be seen as an act of betrayal depending on the laws and rules) an act of courage based on her being a Tomboy and other factors. He pegs Jamil as wearing a mask of humility, something Leona does as well, showing he has a maturity to him that Kalim and others don't, and based on what Jamil said he's got a Lot going for him both in education and, because Leona requested Ruggie in the Ruin game, we know he's gotta be good at Spelldrive as he was part of last years game. He also skipped grades at age 14, along with the fact that he wants to determine his own fate rather than have others decide on it.
Naveen on the other hand is listed in his own profile to be spoiled, can't cook, is lazy, would rather marry wealthy than get a job to keep up a lavish lifestyle that he seems to believe he is owed, etc. He's a philanderer as per his own song. Mina indicates, like Jasmine, he wants to marry for love, and not be someone trophy nor just date whom ever is thrown at him. While it's not bluntly stated, it's based on her lines from the movie. They are vastly different characters. It's clear he came to RSA to escape, just like Leona did, and Jamil, just to get away from the BS that seems to be happening for him.
No. You don't want that. Mina is clearly the Jasmine here to Jamil's Jafar/Genie. He's meant to show that Jamil's judgmental nature, something that Leona points out in Book 6, is something that is actively in the wrong here. Normally Jamil pegs people like Azul, but in this case, he's making assumptions about Mina that, based on Mina's own words, and if you know the character he's based on, are wrong. He's blinded by his own biases, and this, given he's not the only one with them, is the most likely reason that NRC keeps losing to RSA. The students only see the RSA students a certain way, rather than actually getting to know them, and taking the time to get to understand and communicate with one another. RSA on the other hand, while wanting to win, certainly seems more willing to be civil with NRC.
I feel like we're going to see him and Rielle probably work really well with co-operation, and Azul and Jamil trying to one up one another to prove their better than their counter parts, and it's going to be Lilia and Ruggie who come in with the clutch because Mina and Rielle don't know much about Lilia or Ruggie, who both are good at co-operation given their own history. Yes, I agree he's shown to be clever.
By the way you have now given me at least 4 additional ideas for posts to write about:
1. How certain characters from Twisted Wonderland seem to Mirror Kuroshitsuji characters.
2. Unreliable narrators
3. Jamil and Kalim's relationship having a vibe like Aladdin and the Genie (especially the one from a Twisted Tale built around Jasmine and Jafar removing Magic)
4. Mina and Jamil reminding me a bit of Aladdin and Mozenrath from the Aladdin Series.
so thank you for that. ^_^
This has been an interesting discussion. I hope we can continue it in some way.
(Sadly I can only use 30 images...so I can't show more here for examples)
