+ CRYPTIC SALUTATIONS +

Cryptic Salutations: What is the story of Saturnalia’s beginnings?

Simon Edwards: The roots of Saturnalia came from four school friends jamming together in bedrooms and garages, learning to play our instruments, and figuring out how to play together. I played bass guitar, occasional double bass, and did backing vocals, Dave Woodcock played keyboards, Jonathan Kirk was on drums, and Steve 'Spacebat' Masters was on main vocals, guitar and sax.

In the last six months or so of the band's existence, we added a second guitarist, Martin Hedley.

CS: What first got you into music? Who were your inspirations?

Simon: Punk and new wave gave us the impetus to do something, without having to be virtuosos. A couple of the guys had also been into Pink Floyd previously, and later we were all quite open to all kinds of influences. Dave Woodcock and I got quite into jazz theory and tribal sounds. I'd say that some of the band's main contemporary influences were Ultravox (pre-Midge Ure), Psychedelic Furs, Japan, Joy Division, The Stranglers, Talking Heads and Chrome.

New photos courtesy of Simon CS: What was the band’s creative process like?

Simon: Ordinarily, someone would bring a chord sequence or a riff along to a rehearsal, and we'd jam around it, but on occasion Dave W or Spacebat would bring an almost complete idea. The lyrics were written by me or Spacebat, about half-and-half.

CS: Were there ever any live shows, if so, does footage exist, and did you enjoy playing live?

Simon: We played about fifteen or twenty live shows, mostly in our local area, in community halls, pubs, nightclubs, the local university student bar, but we also got to play one gig in London, at the iconic Marquee Club on Wardour Street. I don't believe any live footage exists, but I'd love to be proved wrong!

CS: Where has life taken you since the end of Saturnalia?

Simon: About a year after Saturnalia split up, I moved to London with Martin Hedley and my then girlfriend, and formed a band called Ask Virginia, which lasted a few years, played a few gigs and recorded loads of demos. I then joined Martin's resurrected band, Bible For Dogs, which was a frantic punk-jazz experience. I currently curate and present a specialist music show called Loose Canon, which is broadcast in the UK, Hong Kong and Bulgaria. I'm also a music promoter in my local area, specialising in alternative/indie/post-punk/punk.

Spacebat and Kirk now live about an hour from me, and we still get together now and again for a few drinks and a jam session. Dave Woodcock lives in Canada, but we see each other every couple of years. Martin Hedley lives on the south coast, and is in a horror swamp blues band called The Wattingers.

CS: In your own opinion, what do you think of the music industry then and now?

Simon: In the seventies and eighties, it was so much easier to get people to come out to gigs, at least in a small town, as there was so little else to do. Selling vinyl was so much easier, too – local bands like us would print a thousand or two thousand 7” singles, and easily sell most of them through local record shops.

CS: Of Saturnalia’s four tracks, did you have one that stood out to you as ‘the best?’

Simon: Of the four tracks on the Saturnalia singles, my favourite was 'Girl On The 8th Floor' - I think we'd all found our own musical voices by that point. All four of the original members had a creative hand in putting the song together, and I wrote the lyrics. I feel that the track still holds up well, is very evocative, yet still obviously of its time.

Lyrics from 'Girl On The 8th Floor / The Cold Night Air' 7" single CS: If you could give your past self any advice, what would it be?

Simon: I'd tell my younger self to stick to his guns, not compromise musically, and generally be a bit more pushy.

CS: How was the name ‘Saturnalia’ chosen?

Simon: I really can't remember how the name came about, to be honest, but a three out of four of us voted for it.

CS: Are there any unique stories behind the lyrics? ‘Inside the Devils Circle’ has a particularly interesting narrative.

Simon: 'Devils Circle' was one of Spacebat's lyrics – I seem to think that he got the idea from a film, but I don't remember which one. Most of my own lyrics were written using a variation on Bowie's cut-up technique.

Lyrics from 'Inside the Devil's Circle' 7" single CS: Anything else you’d like to share or promote?

Simon: I'm sending you rehearsal room demos of three more Saturnalia tracks (CS Note: Find the track 'Oh Tara' below!!), which I hope you'll enjoy – feel free to play any of them to your listeners, if you'd like to. I'll also include a studio demo from another band I mentioned, Ask Virginia, from around 1986. Anyone who's interested in current alternative/indie/post-punk etc might like to listen to my radio show, Loose Canon – here's a link to my Soundcloud account, where there are a large number of archive shows: Link

Cryptic Salutations: What are your thoughts on the music industry today?

Jonathan Lemon: It’s fantastic that it’s so much cheaper and easier to record high quality music these days. And also that you can distribute it without having a record deal. Sites like Bandcamp are amazing ways to discover new music. And you can basically find every song or record that’s ever been recorded with a few clicks.  I can’t speak for the monetization of music because I’ve never made any, but I suspect the days of making a living through music are harder because people can get everything for free and the idea of “making it” with a corporate record contract is pretty much gone. But interesting experimental projects can thrive. I don’t know how much cream rises to the top in the online world but it worries me that the game is now all about self-promotion and business acumen. Also, with the availability of electronic options, sometimes it’s *too* easy to make music, so you hear a lot of the same types of things, which I think is why a lot of people are turning towards analog again.  When you had a synthesizer that only made 8 noises, you rammed it through every combination of effects to try and find something new, and really stretched everything to the limit. There’s probably an app now that can create a custom dance track with three clicks and a slider. I do enjoy falling down the rabbit holes of new music. There are some really talented people out there doing wonderful things.

CS: If your younger self had to recommend one quintessential album that inspired you, what would it be? And then, your current self?

JL: The Some Bizzare compilation album was a pretty definitive influence.  It has the early very rough Soft Cell and Depeche Mode, and Blancmange. The Blah Blah Blah track was fascinating. In my dreams, we could have been on that record.  Pengwyn was heavily into The Monochrome Set and after JCD he ended up with a lot of their members in his Cat & Mouse Band. Lester Square had even played on a few JCD tracks. My current self would send back in time Charles Mingus “Ah um” which as everyone knows, is the greatest album ever made.  Ask me again tomorrow and it would be something different. Probably a Chilean rap band.

CS: Sort of a similar question. Is there any advice you wish you could go back in time and tell yourself in regards to making music/entering the arts? 

Cryptic Salutations: I’ve done a bit of research and have seen your illustrations and cartoons. Very unique! Was there a turning point where you made a transition toward more comic-oriented art, or have you ever combined your cartoons with music?

Jonathan Lemon: I’ve always been obsessed with comics and cartoons, although not the superhero kind.  And in art college I did an undergrad degree where you had to pick a performing art to go with your visual stuff, so I obviously did music and ended up with a lot of video stuff and animation. And now it’s my job to draw cartoons every day.  Apart from the brutal deadlines it’s pretty fun..

CS: Do you find that you work best in solitary environments, or when you have other minds convening to bounce ideas around with?

JL: If you can find the right person, it definitely helps to have a sounding board, but since I mostly hate most everyone (including myself) I am usually quite happy on my own. I don’t know if that’s typical for most people. With Pengwyn, we would work independently and then share what we’d done and make suggestions. I like to be able to make mistakes in private first. It’s an interesting experiment to share your idea with a group and see what happens but you have to allow for a certain amount of “letting go”. I think that’s what’s good about drawing a comic strip.  You can control an entire world on your own and since I subscribe to the notion that we live in a chaotic, random, cruel universe, it’s my way of staying sane.

CS: At the time of the earliest Jesus Couldn’t Drum recordings, what or who were your greatest inspirations? Musicians? Movies? Even just your everyday environments?

JL: Remember that 1981 was long before you had wide access to free media.  What we did was a sort of backlash to the big outpouring of slick branded “commercial” New Wave pop that was coming out like A-ha and Heaven 17, etc.  …. synthesizer bands in expensive suits. Guitar-based “rock” had mostly taken a back seat for a while. So we were always on the lookout for anything weird and experimental that we found on the racks of the Record & Tape Exchange in Camden where we’d go every Sunday.  Definitely The Residents because they had those great covers and the music was so deconstructed from what music should be and they had that essential vein of humor to show they weren’t taking themselves too seriously, and they branded themselves as such a brilliant anti-commercial concept. We had our minds blown when Pengwyn discovered “The Fish Needs a Bike” single by Blurt.  That would still be one of my Desert Island Discs. The early Fad Gadget stuff (which was apparently recorded in a wardrobe) was refreshing, anything on Cherry Red (especially the Pillows and Prayers album), 4AD, Mute, The The, The “A Factory Quartet” album, etc. Psychic TV, Foetus, Cabaret Voltaire, Renaldo and the Loaf, and The Deep Freeze Mice (who I later joined with when they became The Chrysanthemums).  I remember Pengwyn liked Julian Cope, Orange Juice, The Rutles, The Higsons, and the Monochrome Set and he was a lot more open minded than me and got to listen to more stuff since he worked in the music store. The Bonzo Dog Band was a huge eye-opener. Both Pengwyn and I had a mutual love of comedy albums such as Monty Python, Spike Milligan, The Young Ones, and older stuff like Spike Jones. We both hated U2 though and all those moody bands that sounded like Joy Division. I secretly liked them but I hated that everyone else liked them. We both listened to the John Peel radio show with tape recorders at the ready. The first time we saw the “Fish Heads” video by Barnes and Barnes was an incredible awakening. Oddly enough we got contacted by some guy in the US who was raving about us and we had no idea who he was but it was Dr Demento! There was a lot of older stuff too that is almost too embarrassing to mention like the first Pink Floyd album, and Syd Barrett, Faust, early Kraftwerk maybe. As far as movies… well this was long before you could just stream any movies you wanted, so just interesting stuff we caught on TV.  Lots of old Cary Grant movies, all those cool sixties spy movies, and French New Wave (mostly for the nudity). 

CS: Correct me if I’m wrong, but it looks like none of the tracks have been touched since the 2001 ‘Best of Jesus Couldn’t Drum’ compilation. Have you ever thought about remastering and rereleasing any of them, perhaps on vinyl for collectors?

Cryptic Salutations: How many of the singles were originally pressed?

Jonathan Lemon: I believe the minimum amount was 1000 in those days. They would have pressed less if it was possible! They were distributed by The Cartel which was a co-operative group that included some of the most notable labels of the 1980s UK post-punk and indie scene such as Backs, Rough Trade, Red Rhino and Nine Mile. Apparently, they could sell anything.  When we did the free flexidisc for the first album, they made 50k in many different colors and gave them away with ZigZag magazine which went out of business the next issue which was disappointing because famous rock journalist William Shaw had done a long in-depth interview with us which has now been lost to time.  The first album was 3k if I remember correctly.

CS: Do you recall what your equipment set up was? What make of synths, guitars, pedals, etc?  

JL: A Fostex X-15 multitrack tape player, a Roland SH101, a very primitive echo chamber, a couple of used Boss effects pedals, a Gibson copy guitar, a melodica, a Shure SM58 microphone, a Black Box fuzz module, a Sound Master Memory Rhythm SR-88 and a small box filled with various percussion instruments and fluty pipes.  Later we had a Roland TR 808 and a Boss Dr Rhythm DR55 and very importantly an EM-U Emulator 1 sampling keyboard that used to belong to Tears For Fears. It had “TFF” stenciled onto the flight case.  It currently belongs to Fat Boy Slim.

CS: Do you consider your time in Jesus Couldn’t Drum as an exploration of your artistic limits, or was it simply a fun hobby shared between friends?

JL: I think we both couldn’t quite believe the speed of what was happening and consequently we just rolled with it rather than had any expectations or strategy.  Maybe it was pretty small beans to most people but it felt quite life changing to us, and we were suddenly serious young people in important trousers, and people were sniffing around us hoping we’d be the next big thing. There was definite conflict between the band and the label over musical direction.  The label kept telling us to get a big hit before doing more “challenging” stuff. We were more interested in doing something different. “Different” to use just meant not being like any of the other bands we were aware of at the time which was a pretty small pool admittedly. The second JCD album was very self-indulgent but in a way I think it’s also the only one I can really stand to listen to anymore. 

CS: Did you take the single and subsequent EP’s and albums on tour? If so, to where, and what kind of criticisms were you met with? And what compliments?

Cryptic Salutations: At what age did you first feel compelled toward the arts? Did you know from the get-go that you would make music or did you dabble in other mediums before that?

Jonathan Lemon: Good question. And thank you for letting me indulge myself in my favorite subject! “Compelled” is a great word, because I think a true artist will create, no matter what obstacles are pushed into their path, like a day job, family responsibilities…. sleep! That’s why most artists are flat broke I guess. In my case (and let’s not kid ourselves, I’m no “true artist”), I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t drawing or fiddling around with stuff to see how I could break it and then fix it again.  After my parents died, I found a box in the attic that contained all my drawings and comics that my mom had stashed away proving that even at a few months old I was able to achieve the unimpressive task of scribbling with a pencil. The music came once I discovered reel-to-reel tape recorders and the old, discarded gramophone player my dad liberated from somewhere, along with his collection of 78s. We would spend hours recording things and cutting them up, playing things backwards and at the wrong speeds. I was always surrounded by vinyl and a tiny tinny transistor radio which I would fall asleep listening to. I also endured free classical piano lessons at the state school I attended which I detested for the most part. The teacher was a wildly eccentric and entertaining Canadian man. When I told him I was quitting lessons because I was the proud new owner of a monophonic synthesizer he said, “it’s about time’!  Peter Pengwyn, my partner in crime here, had a similar experience with a clarinet. I think there’s an important distinction between art and technique.  For long periods of my life, I have lacked technique. For example, I’ve never really considered myself a musician.  But I used sound in an artistic way to express something primal. You can have technique without art. You see a lot of it on social media…. People who can make incredibly photorealistic images, but there’s no personality or statement. It’s undeniably impressive but there’s no application of artistic integrity. It’s the struggle to create art that makes it good. I guess that’s a way of saying I am a tad pretentious, and probably why I exclusively listen to Chilean hip hop these days.

CS: Through what circumstances was the ‘Even Roses Have Thorns / Everyday Occurrences’ single recorded? Was the group picked up by a record label through show promotion? You mentioned the song title mix up, we would love the full story behind this.

JL: Back in 1981 we were both 18, and I was a brand new art student who thought he was gonna be the next Bruce McLean, and Pengwyn was working in a record store which was probably the coolest job in Watford where we lived. We had cobbled together a basic home studio from working a slew of uncomfortable and degrading jobs. I think the whole spirit of the project was one of bohemian expression, rather than any attempt at fame and fortune. We just wanted to avoid being the least interesting people at parties.  There was a widely accepted post-punk ethos of DIY experimentation at the time where the social rage of the late seventies in Britain had subsided and curiosity at the possibilities of low-cost music production were emerging. But the Thatcher/Reagan years weren’t much better.  People will tell you how great it was to have all that money flying around from selling off public assets but believe me, most people saw none of that. And remember, this was a time before people really used computers, and digital recording was a decade away and MIDI was the latest thing. Anyway, we used that primitive setup to record a few songs which we would then put on demo tapes and send them to record labels.  WE probably spent more time on the covers and arguing about what the songs should be called. We hadn’t really performed live at all since we were really shy little boys and very self-conscious, and we didn’t have a manager or anyone telling us what to do. One day a customer walked into Our Price Records where Pengwyn was working, and mentioned he was starting up a record label. That person turned out to be Steve Carter from Lost Moment. Pengwyn gave him his demo tape, and the next thing we know, he’s booked us into a recording studio in Luton, which was a mixed bag because being a lifelong fan of Watford Football Club it would mean going into enemy territory.

That first single was recorded in one long day at Pyramid Studios, run by the late Mick Ilka. I don’t recall how we got there (neither of us had a car) nor if it was a weekend or why we weren’t at school/work.  But I do vividly remember being led into a brick building on (appropriately) Cheapside Street, behind the Arndale Shopping Center. It was an extraordinary maze of corridors and stairs that lead up and then down into a soundproof room where we were confronted by a red antique mixing desk that was pretty antiquated, even for the eighties.  It used to belong to Jimmy Page who’d had it custom made, and it was unusually curved in a “C” shape so you could spin around on a chair and access all the panels without standing up. There was also a chunky 8 track machine that used 2” tape. We had absolutely no idea what we were doing but we immediately took a liking to the engineer, Brian Pugsley, who became a lifelong friend. He was extremely patient with us and made the whole record sound much better than it could have been.  He’d worked recently with The Sugarcubes in Iceland and some of the other bands on the incredibly hip and happening One Little Indian label, and he struck us as probably the most interesting and kindest person we’d ever met. I think we started off by programming the studio’s LM-2 LinnDrum which took us way past lunchtime since we’d never seen one before.  Then we slowly added the overdubs, one at a time. The synthesizer wasn’t able to save preset sounds so we had written notes on where to adjust all the knobs to, and the sequencer was very binary and you had to program the music in with just two buttons. Almost certainly vegetarian pizza arrived at some point because we were (and still are averse to eating dead animals). Around 10pm, we eventually had something resembling a song and poor Brian was getting ready to leave when we informed him that we needed a B-side.  That’s why the second track sounds so basic…. just a drum machine, guitar and vocals. Probably no more than two takes.  It was really rushed. But ironically it was that song that Mick Ilka noticed and liked enough to offer us a publishing deal and got us asked back to record an album. And if I recall correctly, that was the song that was supposed to be the A side.

The label mix up isn’t a very interesting story.  I suppose it just wasn’t obvious which title goes with which song since neither title is in the lyrics, so someone (wrongly) assumed that the well-produced track was the A side.  

Cryptic Salutations: This wasn't even in my question list but our previous topic brings me to the subject; have you ever messed around with any modular synthesizer setups?

John Steinhardt: No, I haven't yet. I'm always short on money. 

CS: Yeah, they're super pricey, but from what I've heard even the most skeptical musicians end up addicted to the vast amount of choice you're given with such setups. 

JS: I'm not close minded to any of that stuff. I think it's just great. The more the better. But y'know, here's a story for you though: I went on a tour down in Texas this last year and the first show I did was at a country bar, and I decided to do at least 50% of the night covers, and 50% of the night original. And I tailored the originals so that it was to what kind of music they liked. And in Texas basically, it's more old rock n roll and more country, and then there's Texas country which is a little bit different. So I tailored it to them and I got criticized because I used the voice enhancer and they said "What the hell're you doin'! You sound like you're in studio! You ain't in no studio here, turn that off!" And then they didn't like the effects on the guitar! Y'know, it had to be just simple! And of course, I don't give a shit. It's what I do. If they don't like it, well, go home. 

CS: Wow. I bet if you were a local they wouldn't have treated you that way. I've noticed that... Unless you're part of the clique, you're subject to extreme criticism. 

JS: Exactly.  

CS: How did you go about entering the music business? Did your folks encourage you? Was it something you knew was in you from a young age? 

JS: I definitely knew it was in me from a young age, there's no doubt about that. At about age 11, I already knew I wanted to be a musician. Of course I was in grade school band and music choruses and schools, and then by the time I was, oh gosh, 12 or 13, I was already in my first rock band, practicing and rehearsing. We were performing out at youth centers and, of course, in those days, you could play bars in Wisconsin where I grew up. They didn't mind. We don't care if you're 14 or 15 years old, come in and play! There weren't any laws against it. Like right now, there's too many laws about everything, y'know what I mean! They'd say yeah, come on, you can stay, but you're not drinking. Don't even ask for one. If we see you drinking, yeah, you're off stage, but okay fine! But now we've got this law and that law... Yeah. Back then, business was different. It was open to artistic ideas and for creatives. There also just wasn't that many of us, and the technology was new! Even Joey Welz, he said "You know, you should have been here in the 50s! We'd record a song, put it on a 45, the next day we'd take it to the DJ personally, and he'd play it!" I'd go "What!" And he said "Yeah!" And I thought "Man, that's amazing. That would be great." Course you can't do that now, it's gone. 

CS: Yep, you'd get thrown out by security if you even tried to approach the DJ! 

JS: Oh, well they threw me out of Capitol Records down in Los Angeles once. You know, that big beautiful building down there. Yeah, I tried to get in and get 'em my stuff and they threw me out, the security guy. 

CS: Too busy recording Top 40 material I guess. 

JS: [laughs] Right!

CS: This one is kind of a two parter. If your younger self had to recommend one quintessential, life changing album, what would it be? And also, your current self? 

JS: Hmm. If I remember back, there were a couple. When I was in school and I was starting bands, I had a friend, a girl who used to ride the bus with me. And she would bring me a different album every week. And what really changed me, I think, was The Allman Brothers Live at Fillmore East and also Santana's Abraxas. Now, Santana's Abraxas was really inspirational because of what he did with that band, made of different races, bringing their different sounds from different music genres into rock n roll. And then, The Allman Brothers, using traditional blues, bloomed into a presentable rock-blues flavor. And then, there was another one. Another person. When I was on stage, someone just came in and handed it to me. Chuck Berry's Chess Recordings. Chess Records. And when you listen to his entire work on 2 LP's, you sit back and you're just flabbergasted, like how could this guy have done this? It created rock n roll! That was then. Now, as I think, if I could say something now, I'd go even further back, right to Robert Johnson and the 29 recordings that he made. It says it all, about what a solo artist, a singer songwriter should be. There was only 29 songs recorded, he plays it all on one guitar, and it's amazing. How did he do it? How did he play it? I mean, he created his own style, he learned to play all by himself, and that's exactly what it should be. And there is nothing there, nothing in those works, that says "Buy this! Buy this! Buy me! Like me!" No, I'm doing it because this is who I am. And that's what an artist should be. This is who I am, this is what I am, kiss my ass! Nothing less. So yes, now I look back to Robert Johnson, and the birth of rock n roll. That's where it started, in its purest form. Another inspiration as I look back is another band out of Canada, who somehow, somehow became popular. I don't know how they did it, but Rush. Being the musicians that they are, the song writing skills and lyrics of Neil Peart, the drumming... As a musician you sit back and go, "Wow, this is to be admired!" And that's what I see. The difference between then and now. 

CS: Any closing thoughts? 

JS: I'd like to thank you for your support, for hearing my message. It only takes one or two here and there to keep an artist going, and it's pretty hard at times, so I appreciate this, and thank you! 

Cryptic Salutations: Did you play shows to promote the album? Were you performing just the songs or was it always interspersed with the cover songs? 

John Steinhardt: No. What I tried to do, especially in San Francisco, was play a lot of original shows. One of the places I always played was Bouncers Bar, and that's defunct now. It's torn down. They brought in an apartment complex in that area. That was very close to the Bay Bridge, when you come across into San Francisco it was down to the right, probably about eight blocks. I played there, oh my God, a lot of times. There were other clubs I played around California too. And of course I didn't make very much money doing it, so it had to be on an open time when I could schedule it. I had to take time out to do so, but in the 90's I played a lot of those places and slept in the back of a van and washed up in public bathrooms in San Francisco, just so I could play there that weekend. And that was during the time of The Promised Land, and the album that followed it which was The Dream May Be Dead and Gone, which actually appeared on The Promised Land. Those were about the same time period.

CS: That's such dedication, super inspiring. Could you imagine doing that now, with the price of gas and living? 

JS: Ugh! Ughh! I'm wondering how I'm even going to afford the fees to accomodate what I'm looking at now with the remaster. With the price we're charging, it could be bad. 

CS: Just everything in the name of art, right?

JS: Well, yeah, but when you get on stage, the satisfaction of going into a crowd... Even if it was small... Here's another one, Last Day Saloon in San Francisco. I'd have college kids that knew me. I'd get up on stage, it's just 20 people, but they know your music and they buy your cassette at that time... It's enough to say "Oh, okay, I'll keep writing." 

CS: I noticed that there isn't any vocal enhancers listed in the equipment list for The Promised Land. There's a lot of very dynamic voice changes going on throughout the entirety of the record though. Were these voices part of your range or do I just not know the extent of what all this equipment can do? 

JS: Oh, no. That was my range then. I don't have that range anymore. My voice is much lower now. Because I sang rock n roll for so many years, I developed cysts in the back of my throat, which caused me to lose almost five notes. I do use a voice enhancer on stage and in albums now, but back then, no. My voice was higher, still a high baritone, and all the screaming you hear is real notes, real falsetto, but that screaming is why the voice went out. It just couldn't take it. I went to a clinic in Denver three times and found out exactly what it was, took pictures. I took, actually, voice lessons in college for my degree in music and the singing of rock and pop is just totally different than what singing should be. The air should flow across the vocal chords so they vibrate very little, and then the air going across the vocal chords produces the sound and the tamber through your nasal cavity and throat. So the problem was, when we sing rock n roll we're actually using the throat to vibrate the vocal chords, and when they vibrate, you wear them out like rubber bands. After a while, they won't stretch anymore. That's what happened to me. So now I sing down low and use a voice enhancer to create the octave above on the songs that I would have to sing higher on. I'm wondering if David Lee Roth can still even sing those high notes, I kind of doubt it. 

CS: I'm so glad for these technological advancements, this way you don't have to abandon these old songs or render them unplayable. So awesome. 

Cryptic Salutations: At the time of The Promised Land's release, did you get a lot of criticism? Positive or negative? From friends, family, critics, audiences, etc.?

John Steinhardt: Most people didn't understand it. I took the album down to Austin, Texas for SXSW, and I was in a room where you could pick out one song from your album and they'd put it in the stereo and there'd be 3 guys there that were so called 'authorities,' right? And they would give their opinion. And we're all the song writers. So you throw your cassette up there, they pick one up, it goes in, they pick up the next one and it goes in, they say this and that... So, they picked it up and the song was There's No Ozone. It's cranking. Bam, bam bam! And you know the song, it's talking about the ozone going. It's going now, we don't have it! Big holes in there! But I'm talking about this, and it's probably 1995. It got to where the singing starts, then the chorus, and they take it out and say "Well, the intro is too long and it's too boring and no one wants to hear anything about the world dying" or something like that! Then, another time, I took it to a place and they put on my song Deep Within and it just talks about how God is within each of us, no matter what you do. Whatever religion you are, it's god itself. And he listened to it, got to the end of the song and said... "Deep within? Deep within what? What are you talking about?" And I'm going "There you go, you don't get it!" So... there's just been a lot of people who don't get the music.

CS: At the time of the album's conception, did you have any main inspirations? Music, movies, or even just your own environment? 

JS: Well, I think I wrote most of that album in California. I was born in Lahoya, and I finally came back to California - I can't remember what year - and toured up and down, and I stayed a lot on the ocean, Pelican Bay... And I played a lot of clubs here and there. And I just remember that it was an inspiring place for me. And of course California has always been a place of new ideas, controversy, and dissent. Almost to the point that now it’s gone too far! But anyways, y'know I'd hear about those things and I'd do research. Like the ozone. Or I would research... What's wrong with crime in America? How come we're not addressing all this stuff in the promised land?! What's this all about, y'know? And after the research I'm like, "Oh my god, I mean... It looks like a plot!" This is part of the American capitalist agenda! We always have to have a lower class so that we always have crime, and we 'try' to fight it back, and that's apparently the way it's always going to be. So... the inspiration just came from... probably just being younger and listening to other people... And meanwhile I'm playing cover music to make a living. There was always an outlet for things I was thinking, and I would sneak these songs in, interspersed with the cover songs, and then people would come up going "What are you playin' that for? What's that about? Okay, go back and play The Beach Boys."

CS: God forbid they have to think, right! 

JS: And that's part of the problem! People don't want to think. They just want to sit back and hope everything is great. 

CS: They want the easiest, most digestible answer at all times. 

JS: Exactly, exactly. 

CS: Have you thought about re-releasing The Promised Land on vinyl? I think collectors would really enjoy that! 

JS: I have. The company I distribute through, Disc Makers in New Jersey, I called them and asked how much it would be to put on vinyl and how many copies I could actually make at a reasonable price. They do have all the record machines back out of storage and they are putting things on vinyl again. If you know, vinyl is growing by leaps and bounds right now. 

CS: Yeah! I'm a collector myself and the wait time for indie releases is just astronomical right now. All the pressing plants seem to be making way for the Top 40 artists whilst the rest just have to patiently wait their turn, whether that's 3 months or an entire year! 

JS: Wow! I didn't know that! Well, around the time when Bruce Springstein put out his live album, which was one of the greatest selling albums of all time, it was in the papers that every album made was cassette going to digital CD. And every album no matter what the artist, had 15,000 pressed. No matter what. 

Cryptic Salutations: Through what process was The Promised Land recorded? How many cassettes were originally released?

John Steinhardt: The Promised Land was originally recorded in, I do believe, winter of '89-'90, and the basic tracks were laid on a 2-track machine while I performed in Ketchikan, Alaska. And then I came back to, at that time, Carson City Nevada, where I laid down all the tracks using an 8-track sequencer, to a 4-track Cascam cassette. That was the same machine, the Teac Tascam 144, that was used by Bruce Springstein on his Nebraska album. The same type. People that know about recording have always been amazed at that machine and, of course, Bruce Springstein's album because he was able to take that across the United States and record with it. It's probably one of his best. I used that machine also, for that reason. I then mixed it on that using an 8-track sequencer, then using the 4-track, and then mixing it to, at that time, 2-track analog. Some of the recordings were later changed and recorded on 8-track reel to reel at a studio in Grass Valley, California. For instance, The Promised Land, I've Got No Control, and There's No Ozone. Bennett Street Studios. That was 8 track. I made 1,000 cassettes at the time.

CS: What was Joey Welz' involvement? We spoke with him on the phone, and he unfortunately doesn't remember much! 

JS: Well, Joey is suffering from brain cancer at present time, so some of his memories are kind of damaged, but he... He was the piano player at the end of Bill Haley & His Comets, and he knows rock n roll going all the way back to the beginnings. And I've always been attracted to early rock n roll. I mean, after jump blues - y'know, it went from big band to jump blues - and then it came into what I really love, and actually what I taught in school, which was that the cool thing about rock n roll is the tolerance between races. You have every race represented within rock n roll. So many different sounds and different artists. That's the cool thing. And he goes back, and he knew all those people. He met them all. That was the thing we had in common. And then when he heard the music, we started working together, promoting. At the time, I got some play in Germany. That was basically because they saw the name, and I have a German name, Steinhardt. So they picked it up right away and started playing it. I played for Midem down in Austin, Texas because that was European. Europeans seem to like my music better than the American DJ's... Don't know why... Don't know why. 

CS: Do you think your career has been centered on exploring genres or have you found a spot where you're more comfortable? 

JS: Well first of all, I don't set out to do anything. Jackson Pollock was quoted as saying "I don't deny the accident, there is no accident." It is what it is. Whatever flows out of creativity is the way it should be, therefore if you're going to be putting things into a square box and expecting things to happen, they aren't. Then you're going to start creating commerciality and conformity and I never wanted that. I want something that really stands out and is different, and one of the ways I did it was by making sure that I heard everything that I could. And I mean every genre of music, every type, that way when I did create something I'd be sure that it was different, that it stood apart. There were things that made it in, what I call 'earhooks,' that people could relate to, yet I still wanted it to stand apart. So did I attempt any one genre at the time? No. That's probably why in commercial business I failed, because I couldn't sell it. They couldn't relate to it as 'one thing.'

CS: I noticed the quote that you put in The Promised Land cassette liner: "If your work of art is good, if it is true, it will find its echo and make its place - in six months, in six years, or after you are gone. What is the difference?" from Gustave Flaubert. That is very relevant to this situation! I wanted to know if you had the foresight at the time that 30 years in the future, the album truly would leave such an impression, or if you were just doing what felt right at the time.