“AND I WANT TO BE THE BEST.”

Like what was the point if everything was going to be solved in one episode.

And even worse Link has the personality of a cardboard box.

Every single one of Phoebe's love interests were about as exciting as watching paint dry.

I saw someone say that Link went between being obsessed with Phoebe and being totally indifferent to her. AND THEY WERE RIGHT

And I know they could do it better because even if I'm not the biggest Mallison fan AT LEAST ALLISON HAD A PERSONALITY

Yes her personality was very centered in being an ambientalist BUT STILL A PERSONALITY NON THE LEAST

There's a lot of thing in the show that I understand I truly do, but I don't like it, I don't. Some of them even make me dislike the characters. They are erraising traids of some of them or trying to rewrite them. Like Max and Phoebe's relationship was one of the only one things that had actually development in the OG series and they completely ignore that in the summer episodes. There's no fucking way Max is a "instinctive" guy that's freaking mischaracterization. I hate that Phoebe is an art teacher, she has more potencial and we can't see that because of a "joke" (that is not even funny in my opinion). The villain of the week dynamic feels like a wanna be Henry Danger and over all it's like... there's something missing, like something is wrong.

I will always stand that Undercover was very rush and feels very careless. The movie had already some problematic conceps but the spin off just double down it. And I also have the feeling that this new movie will continue this path. I really wish that they had waited more to realise the spin off as far as I'm aware Undercover filming time was quite short and according to my best friend who know a bit about filming stuff there was no way to have a decent thing in that time.

They overdid the nostalgia feeding, and transformed it into a: "Let's force these people, who are probably in a 18-25 age range right now, to watch a show for little kids".

This new show feels more like a bad meme, than a real series: yeah, Phoebe was bad at art, yeah: good old times! But you can't literally build an entire series on a quote from your original show! Seriously: so, that's the joke? Seeing Phoebe as an art teacher for the rest of these twenty six episodes?

I am not saying they cannot have Phoebe working as an art teacher, but at least they should have provided some character development for her! I don't know: help her learn the craft! Make her discover some kind of inner artistic talent: art can also be about mathematical proportion and just straight up logic, which Phoebe has on abundance!

Or let Max help her, and give the both of them some character development!

And speaking of which: hadn't we overcome that "mischievous, annoying teen boy" characterization for Max? How is it that after an entire season of redemption, he is acting like a little selfish manchild, giving himself and Phoebe roles which are unfit for both of them!

And let's not forget the fact that this choice can't be considered as an in-character behavior for Max, even in the original show! And you know why? Because Max is literally afraid of doing what Phoebe does: he is scared of competing against her! This is the point of his entire character!

When he became school president, it was out of accident and not because of a planned action: he just went on and spoke his mind, and the students claimed him!

Why would Max willingly expose himself to comparison to his twin sister? They really messed up Max on so many levels in this series.

I feel like the people working on this show, kind of undervalued the actual maturity of their own product: but you know what? Despite its many mistakes (which, overall, were intrinsic to it being a sitcom and a Nickelodeon show) the original Thundermans was a good series! With character development, realistic and heartwarming dynamics, and tons of good conflict! It was a family show, not a kids show!

And, also, the kids, the children used to GET that complexity! They were smart enough to understand the characters' motives and relationships.

That's what I think is missing: good conflict!

Conflict that is created because of actual character differences, because of real fears and complexes: in the original show, Max was an insecure kid who hid behind the 'wannabe villain' facade in order to avoid comparison with his golden child sister, and Phoebe was a great superhero in the making, and a straight A student, who had to balance both of these identities with her desire of living a normal teenage life.

In the original show, when Max and Phoebe clashed it was because both of them had a profound love for each other, but were also inhibited by the roles that were attached to them by their family!

Phoebe wanted to have fun, but she was the "good girl", so she relied on Max's defiance, which was more accepted because he was painted as 'the family's disappointment': this is literally Season 2 in its entirety: for example, in 'Change of Art', Phoebe pays Billy to get her some art manufacture, so Billy brings her a piece robbed from a museum, Phoebe then must rely on Max's "heist expertise" to break in that same museum and replace the vase. Result? Phoebe learns to be more relaxed and defy the rules in order to fix a problem.

Max wanted to be seen as valuable, so he relied on rebellion and crime, but then soon regretted his action and went on to solve the problem that he himself had caused: every episode of Season 3, ever. Also, the literal pilot!

Phoebe was considered as a responsible and trustworthy angel kid, but she was also severely ambitious and conceited, and the show actually highlighted that duality and corrected it on a lot of occasion: Cheer and Present Danger, Change of Art, Come what Mayhem, Thunder Paradise [...]

In the new show? Max and Phoebe fight because Max is an annoying, egotistical little boy while Phoebe... reads book? That's it.

We know that The Thunderman family has a long line of superheroes. Hank and Barb are one of the greatest supers in their time. Super famous and popular, they even have direct comunication with the superpresident. We can only imagine what they've done to deserve it.

Also Barb's family is so interesting to me. We know almost nothing about them, but what we know it's very intriguing. Barb was raised in a farm but at the same time it's mention that her family has money, but our main family seems to not see a penny of that money. We can deduce that she it's not close to them at all, not only because she and Mandy didn't talk for god knows how many years. But also her uncle didn't give her anything (let's be real the collection thing sounds more like something some people do in orden that their family members cannot fight the will by claiming they were forgotten). And about that it's infer that Barb was his only living biological family, but what about Mandy? (Yes this is because the writters haven't think about her at the time, but inside the show there's no reason). Then we have the whole reason why she and Mandy stopped talking. Yes we got a "reason" in the episode and I know it's meant to be stupid, but still there's obviously more of it.

Now, my idea is:

in this universe, 15 years has passed from the events of The Thunder Games episode, Max and Phoebe are adult people with a career and they are well-known in the superheroes community: Phoebe is a very respected superhero, and the youngest super president in the Hero League’s entire history, Max had previously worked as a hero with Phoebe, but then decided to dedicate himself to inventing, and is now the equivalent on an irl aerodynamic engineer (There are ideological and psychological reasons behind Max’s decision).

What the Hero League and the entire community of superheroes has noticed is: more and more kids from heroic families are manifesting a will to become supervillains; they start by isolating themselves from their peers and their families, committing crimes and alienating themselves from school activities.

Psychiatrists, psychologists and educators have found some patterns:

- They are almost all males;

- Their age range is 14-20;

- They are usually kids from wealthy families;

- During their lives, they usually experienced bullying, isolation, and social ostracism;

- They usually have an IQ categorisable as higher than the average;

- They register higher levels of anxiety and depression than the average, and usually, they have low self-esteem and a manipulated self-image.

Most of these kids won’t become actual supervillains, and it’s extremely rare for them to commit violent crimes (They usually focus on cybercrimes, robberies, vandalism, and they often manifest bad behaviours in school [They sabotage buildings, interrupt the class or skip them]), but they are extremely dangerous for themselves: these kids are extremely vulnerable to suicide, depressive disorders, OCD and girls and young women who live this condition often manifest disordered eating behaviours or actual EDs.

Because they spent crucial, formative years of their lives isolating themselves from the World, their emotional development starts freezing in the age in which they started developing this condition: a 20 years old young adult who developed this condition at 14, is still, socially and emotionally, a 14-years-old teenager; most of these kids never had strong friendship, they often struggle with connecting with their peers, usually preferring relationship with adults, in this way they are more vulnerable to grooming and exploitation; they don’t know how to behave when they are exposed to sex and romance.

But why?

It’s 2033: food, houses and transports have never been so expensive, the unemployment rate is extremely high, and these problems are combined with the increase of the demands that the society, in which our characters live, requires: you have to be the most qualified, the most productive, you have to be The Best, “Mosts have been left out, why would you be the special one?”. These economical difficulties have escalated in higher crimes rates, meaning that superheroes now have to deal with both supervillains and regular criminals, at a lower pay.

These kids live these pressure in families that are considered literal humanity’s saviours, they are superheroes, they are in museums and there are statues that portrait them!

School in the Hero League is highly competitive, kids are divided in courses based on grades: there are classes for “stupid kids”, classes for “average kids”, and classes for “the smart kids”! Heroes are trained to think about the action, not the meaning of it, not the goal: you have to save that victim, because saving is important, not necessarily the victim. You are a hero because you saved three hundreds people from a villain’s attack, but no one cares about the three hundred people.

Because of these reasons, kids develop this mentality of: “The greatness of the gesture is important, not the positive outcomes of it”, leading them to think that it’s more important to do the “Biggest thing” than the “Fairest thing”.

They seem very elegant and professional, as well!

(What I think is Max’s wardrobe seem very formal as well, because I believe that the black thing behind the T-shirt could be a jacket.)

“Forgettable” (Daydream XI), is literally the Max Thunderman’s anthem, in my opinion! Both the lyrics and the genre fit him really well!

Thank you! =)

I checked out the song and I have to admit it's really not my kind of genre, but I do see how the lyrics can relate to some of Max's internal struggles!

Here's how I would interpret it (maybe your interpretation is very different):

Max is indeed a superhero. And not only because of his powers or his parents or anything like that. That's important, but the main point is that there is a part of his personality that leans towards certain aspects of heroism (actually that would be quiet interesting to discuss - aspects of heroism as presented in the Thundermans...). Simultaneously he despises the idea of being a superhero within the norms dictated by the superhero council (of course the competition with Phoebe "to be the best" superhero is also part of the problem, but its root lies deeper than that). As Max doesn't see a way (he eventually starts to see one in season 4) to still be a superhero outside of these norms, he tries to convince himself, that the whole hero thing is not meant for him and turns to what he sees as the given "polar opposite", being a super villain, even if it is against his own nature. Interestingly enough, Max has exactly the same problems (constraints of freedom (obeying Dark Mayhem), acting against his own better knowledge, faking parts of his personality etc.) he had to face in the hero community. In the end he neither wants to be a classical superhero, nor a classical super villain, but also not a classical teenager (he still wants to use all his abilities and skills for something that makes sense in his mind). He knows exactly what he doesn't want - but not what he truly wants.

I think that this song really explains how Max feels towards the phase!

“Sing, for that is all that you can be/ Sing, for that is how they can believe/ Sing, for that is how you chase your dreams”: I interpret that “Sing” with “Try to show them what you are capable of”, his actual abilities and his good side, I really think that Max kinda tried to be seen as talented, as good, especially in the first season

(“For that is all that you can be” [“If you are not a flawless, glorious hero, you are not worthy of love”], “for that is how they can believe” (They can believe that he is valuable!), “for that is how you chase your dreams” [dreams = recognition, attention]),

but when he starts to feel like his attempts aren’t enough (“And scream, I am not a song”: “I’m not a flawless, glorious hero” [the song]),

we have a transition from “Sing” (express your qualities) to “Scream” (“Do your worst, tell them that you are a villain, that’s the only way, they aren’t going to see you if you don’t scream that you are here!”: “Scream, for it's the only way they hear”),

“Scream, to overcome all of your fears” (fears = being the second best, not being loved and appreciated);

“It scares me to know I might be a simply product of my own convincing lies”:

it’s pretty straightforward, the villain phase!

“Forcing, forging, faking”: the “careless guy” mask;

“Afraid to keep on searching for a chance in vain” (his continuous failures with Dark Mayhem);

“To keep relying on something that might even not be a part of you”: Max isn’t a villain, it isn’t a part of him, and he knows, especially in Season 3, that it isn’t a safe role anymore;

he tries to externalise this truth, but he doesn’t know how to break free from this role, now if he isn’t “The guy who wants to be a supervillain”, he is nothing [“To be able to externalize and change the paradigms”]).

Max doesn’t want to be “The Second Best”, he doesn’t want to be “Forgotten”, that’s one of the reasons behind the phase (“I am trying desperately not to be forgettable” and “I am trying desperately not to be what I’m denying”); he isn’t seen by the other people, especially his family, his struggles aren’t noticed (“What I am hiding under the stars”: the “confident bad boy” facade.)

“Afraid, of being forgotten,

thrown away;

afraid, of being gone without a trace”:

(“And what are my choices, uh!? Be the Second Best at being good? Or be The Best at being bad? And I want to be The Best.”: this is pure fear of being forgotten, being “forgettable”; Max grew up in a society in which he saw statues, movies, shows about his own parents! If you aren’t “unforgettable”, then you are nothing.)

“Betrayed”

(“In case my family turns against me…” [Orginal Prankster])

“Afraid not to be more than just a name” (“I want to stand out!” [“Phoebe vs Max”]; Max wants to be more than a “Thunderman”, he wants to add his value to the World and create something significant!)