sebastianshawβ:
sebastianshawβ:
Um, ok, while going through the interview with Claremont about Shaw (whom he created), I found some quotes about him with regards to both Prof X and Magneto, and I thought I should relay them to you guys, @prfxxor @magnetic-regent-magneto @wyslyyzr @tatterdema1ion just in case it was of interest to you, being your muses and all. On Charles: βShaw and Professor X (Charles Xavier) met long before the latter assembled the original team of X-Men. Claremont considers the differences between them to be far more deep rooted than those between the leader of the X-Men and the villain usually considered to be his arch-rival.Β βTo me the conflict between Shaw and Xavier was much more primal and much more fundamental than Xavier and Magneto.β I um Ok I understand the idea that Shaw and Xavierβs ideals are more at odds than Xavier and Magnetoβs but I am confused/concerned by the use of the word primal Also, moving on, his quote on Magneto and Shaw: βXavier and Magneto were always best buds, Magneto was just going the wrong way. Shaw and Magnetoβif Iβd got my wish and Charlie hadnβt checked outβwould have been a knock-down, drag-out fight and the beauty of it is that, Magneto, for all his power as master of magnetism, for all his charisma, for all his passion, is so out of his league against Shaw, and he doesnβt know it. Charlie at least has a clue; Magneto, heβs not used to fighting Tony Stark [Iron Manβs billionaire alter ego] and this is a guy thatβs even scarier in his own way than Tony Stark.β So, Iβm not sure I agree that Shaw is out of Magnetoβs league. At all. And I mean, the way it ended up going, Magneto pwned him. Which was awesome. But given the way that Claremont phrases this, I think maybe theΒ βknock-down, drag-out fightβ that he means, would not be physical and would instead utilize Shawβs financial resources against Magneto in ways that his mutant power canβt combat. Which would be really cool, because thatβs Shawβs real superpower, and also I love in general when superheroes are placed in situations they canβt just force their way out of with their powers. On the other hand, I just really love the fight that actually did happen and how we got images like THIS and THIS out of it. Like come on thatβs fucking hilarious.Β ALSO The title of the paragraph where Claremont talks about this? βA TRIUMVIRATE OF POWERβ THANKS, MAGAZINE, FOR VALIDATING ALL SHAWβS EGOSTICAL DELUSIONS ABOUT THE MAGNETO/CHARLES DICHOTOMY BEING A TRICHOTOMY THAT INCLUDES HIM THANKS A L O T
@prfxxor -Β β i think by βout of his leagueβ he means that magneto is really not good at playing the political or psychological game, whereas that IS shawβs game. erik can make up for his political clumsiness when his opponents are several notches below him in terms of raw power (like most human powers that be), but shaw is not that far off from him as a one man army. so the ability to play the long and big game really makes a difference- β YEAH i think so too. Like all love to Mags but he really is NOT (and in fairness, doesnβt usually have to be) It does make me wish that story had happened, since long political games are what Shaw is best at, but is NOT what a lot of X-Men writers want to do. Itβs certainly fun to see him being a bruiser, but itβs more satisfying and true to his character to watch him manipulate things.Β Which, bringing it back to my favorite dead horse (SORRY) is yet another disappointment of Dugganβs Marauders. Because unlike Magneto, Emma is BRILLIANT at psychological and political games, and while I donβt think Shaw can beat her in the end, I think it would have been an AMAZING political thriller style series to watch them try to one-up/outdo/sabotage the other, while also having to make sure their endeavors donβt fail since technically theyβre working together and have a job to perform. And superpowers (theirs, anyway) would barely be involved against each other, since unlike in the 80s, theyβre immune to each otherβs abilities nowβShaw to her telepathy, and her diamond form able to resist physical damage from him. Like, this could have been really great but then Duggan would have to let Shaw have a single consistent braincell and for Emma to actually ever struggleβ
I also just want to add that I think the characterization of who is whoβs archenemy has more to do with the moral/social structure of the charactersβ roles in mutantdom than their feelings toward each other or their raw power.
Shaw symbolizes two moral dangers-- one that Professor X faces and one that Magneto faces while they conduct their politics of resistance.
For Professor X, Shaw threatens the legitimacy of his early project to create peace between humans and mutants while maintaining mutantsβ independence. Shaw exemplifies why it is so dangerous to cooperate with humans/the establishment, and he likewise exemplifies the arrogance of thinking that if youβre part of the humansβ political project/βan inside mutantβ youβll be exempted from the fallout when they launch the next war on mutantkind (see the sentinel project). At least a few of Shawβs mutant allies are self-hating wealthy people, also. Shaw thus has the selfish motives that Magneto and his followers attribute to the X-men. He wants the establishment/status quo to continue because he likes the wealth and power it gives him the opportunity to manipulate. He makes the X-men look much worse just by existing, even as he sows enough doubt in the mutant community to help them be divided.
For Magneto, I think itβs more personal. (Later I think Apocalypse serves more of the role Shaw would have for Magneto-- if only because the way Shaw does it is more subtle and a greater condemnation of White oppressed group membersβ conduct in the U.S. and the writers of X-men arenβt exactly famed for subtlety.) The Hellfire club (Shaw style) is the perfect symbol of the ways that oppressed White/White passing groups with more resources than other oppressed groups band together to "self-strengthenβ and lobby for their own benefit while actively betraying and discriminating against those who donβt have their advantages. Shawβs whole motto of pulling himself up by his bootstraps isnβt just a capitalist thing to me, it is such a knock against the politically toxic and unhelpful attitude the lower-class White culture I come from has (which is why I like his characterβs addition to the X-men story). If there is one huge existential danger that confronts Magneto when he forms a mutant political group and nation, it is that Magnetoβs credo (mutants can be better than humans) will change from rhetoric designed to combat a society that thinks mutants are inferior into a supremacist slogan Magneto will use to oppress others, especially other mutants. The fact that Shaw seduces Magneto into this obviously bigoted Hellfire club is, in retrospect to Magneto, this humiliating realization about how easily he can be seduced into the very attitudes and politics he hates in humans. Ultimately if Shaw is less of a rival to Magneto than Xavier itβs because:
1) Magneto finds it easier to avoid Shawβs kind of supremacy than Apocalypseβs so Apocalypse and his followers (who keep infiltrating Magnetoβs team and his mind) is more of a threat
2) Shaw tends to recruit mutant allies with more resources and affluence so heβs competing for a pool of people Professor X is more likely to recruit than Magneto. (Iβm not counting that brief moment when Magneto colluded with the Hellfire Club members Shaw left behind when he got kicked out for a while). Most of Magnetoβs followers would be rejected by the Hellfire Club if they even tried to apply because theyβre rejects.
Itβs because Magneto finds the Hellfire Club to be less of an existential threat that he later is willing to use the Hellfire Club/play them to realize his own goals. I think Uncanny X-men (2016) is the time period Iβm thinking of.
In conclusion, I donβt think X-menβs writers are brave enough to write the political dimensions of Shaw that make him such a threat. And if I characterized the mutant world, Iβd make the power dynamic a rhombus, with Shaw and Apocalypse as two extreme poles and Professor X and Magneto pulling their own corners more toward the middle.
















