I guess this blog is mostly about the Todoroki family and the LOV, though you might also find posts about BNHA in general General stuff
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The Todoroki Family: Questions and Answers
Observations, speculations and assorted info
Keeping up with the Todorokis (manga version)
Keeping up with the Todorokis (anime version)
Fanfics
Keeping the fire burningā¦ aka updates on the writing status of my fic āLove is a fireā Other people's stuff
Interesting Meta
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Hopefully helpful guide to potentially useful posts
Usually, for navigational purposes, I content myself with just tagging the posts in an organized way and placing a link on the sidebar but, specifically for this blog, I thought a pinned post might be more useful to track some of them so here they are.
BNHA Observations, speculations and assorted info - Places
BNHA Observations, speculations and assorted info - How they're called
How the Todorokis call each other (Part 1)
How the Todorokis call each other (Part 2)
How the Todorokis call each other (Part 3)
How the Todorokis call each other (Part 4)
How would you say āThe Todoroki familyā in Japanese?
The Todorokis, how they are called and how they call others - Part 1 (Chap. 1-21 & Ep. 1-13)
BNHA Observations, speculations and assorted info - Scenes and character histories
Dabiās way to fight in the manga from the start to chap 363
My two cents about Episode 146 (with spoilers about scenes which will appear in future episodes)
The Todoroki Family: Questions and Anwers
Quirk counseling: canon, the cultural references and what we can guess from this all
āRemedial courseā arc Vs Urarakaās quirk counseling program in chap 431
Chap 431 and Touyaās panel
The justice system in BNHA - part 1 (canon terminology, real life japanese institutions, chap 1 to 97)
The justice system in BNHA - part 2 (chap. 98 to 193)
General Meta
Ramblings about the Shimura family
Ramblings about the Takami family
Ramblings about the Himura family
Ramblings about the Shigaraki family
Ramblings about the Todoroki family - Part 1: Todoroki Enjiās origin and teenager years
Ramblings about the Todoroki family - Part 2: The back thatās too big, the mountain that canāt be climbed
Ramblings about the Todoroki family - Part 3: The girl whoās like ice, Himura Rei and how she became Todoroki Rei
Touya and Shoutoās fight or why assuming the other is you and baring fangs wasnāt meant to work
Todoroki Enjiās fatherās death and why he feels heās not a superhuman
My two cents about chap 426
Changing society in BNHA
Did Enji atone to Touya (and his family) and stepped up on his role as a father?
Was Rei a bad mother or not?
BNHA and Japanese law, aka why Enji and Hawks can't go to jail
BNHA ENDING or how a good plan might become something not so good when written down
When Heroes need protecting who will be there to protect them?
āCode redā order in Aldera middle school aka teachers supporing bullying in BNHA
Were really Tenkoās choices not his own?
Was the savior trio really a savior trio?
Whoās to blame when the stakes are missing?
Missed promises
Heroes and human rights
Why Rei called ShÅto the family Hero?
Why the Sekoto Peak fire shouldnāt have happened or, how it should have happened DIFFERENTLY from what we were told
Technological progress in BNHA
My Hero Academia Ultra Archive (May 2, 2016)
Prototypes for Todoroki ShÅto and Todoroki Enji
Main events of the 1st semester
Timelines
The facts taking place during the year that ends with Rei's hospitalization and TÅya's assumed death
The facts taking place during BNHA first year
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: April
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: May & June
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: July
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: August
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: September
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: October & November
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: December
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: January, February & March
The facts taking place during BNHA second year: April & May
Full āBoku No Hero Academiaā Timeline (Last update: 2024-09-28)
Settei
Todoroki family related settei for season 3
Todoroki family related settei for season 5
Todoroki family related settei for season 6
BNHA Observation
Chap 1 [Ep 1-2]
Chap 2-4 [Ep 3-4]
Keeping up with the Todorokis or, just me observing the Todorokis in the various volumes
Volume 1
Volume 2
Volume 3
Volume 4
Keeping up with the Todorokis or, just me observing the Todorokis (Anime version)
Love is a fire Chapter 1: Promises
Love is a fire Chapter 2: Effort
Love is a fire Chapter 3: Chances
Love is a fire Chapter 4: Smile
Love is a fire Chapter 5: Burn
Love is a fire Chapter 6: Warmth
Love is a fire Chapter 7: ā¦
Love is a fire Extra: Charactersā ages
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haihai, is there anything on the shie hassaikai in the ultra age book?
You see...
there is basically nothing about the Shie Hassaikai. Overhaul gets two pages, but I think this is solely because he showed up again with Lady Nagant (in fact she is just after him) and because Tomura's Quirk was a copy of overhaul stripped of the part in which it could rebuild things, so basically Overhaul's Quirk is more complete than the one Tomura has.
The rest of the Hassaikai is in a box in Overhaul's page.
I can't see new info, which is a consistent problem in all the fanbook in which they didn't care to fill the parts that were defined unknown in the previous fanbooks even though the series has ended and new info wouldn't hurt the plot.
I mean which harm could come from revealing which was Chisaki's bloodtype instead than listing it as unknown?
Personally I find this fanbook the less satisfying of the whole set.
Did the league know Touya was being actively suicidal? I doubt they did. What do you think they would do if they found out?
We have no canon info on this regard, however...
if I were to make a guess I would say before Dabi's dance the League had not the slightest idea of what was going on in Touya's mind.
He didn't reveal anything about himself and keep on his own so it would have been difficult for them to guess.
In theory they might have figured out post Dabi's dance but post Dabi's dance:
AFO likely figured but doesn't give a damn. As long as it doesn't hinders his plans Touya can rost himself all he wants and the same goes for Skeptic who also might have figured but he so not care he might not have done it. For him the League are pawns, as long as Touya's useful with his life or with his death that's all he cares about... also Garaki knows but he doesn't care and he is jailed... but I don't think you wanted to know about those three so let's dig into those who were the League core members.
Tomura was possessed so there's nothing he could do.
Atsuhiro was arrested so there's nothing he could do.
Jin was dead so there's nothing he could do.
Shuuichi seems to have missed the memo, I think he sees Touya so strong, someone who is the opposite of him, someone who has everything both in terms of Quirk and in terms of character that he failed to see the big hole inside Touya's heart.
Himiko might have figured out.
Now, assuming she did we do not know if she talked about it with Touya (it's possible she didn't dare to because she hoped she was wrong) because you see, the League has a BIG, VERY IMPORTANT, rule, they all can do what they want and they do not get in the way of each other but respect each other's will.
So even if Himiko had spoken with Touya... I think she would have still respected his will, even if his will pained her. I think she would let him know that his death would pain her, so that he would know that there is someone who believes his life matter, while at the same time letting him free to do as he prefer, so that Touya would also know there is someone in the world who would support him in pursuing whateer goal he wanted to pursue (opposed to his family who never supported him).
I said the others are basically cut from the discussion due to them being dead, captive, possessed, in denial but, even if they weren't I think they too would act this way. Let Touya know they care but that they would respect his choice. Maybe the one who'll have more troubles accepting it is Shuuichi, more because since he seems to believe Touya has everything he would probably find hard to accept Touya doesn't feel the same, but this wouldn't change the endgame. Ultimately they all would make clear they don't want Touya to die but would respect his will.
And yes, this means they'll let Touya die and this is sad and terrible but the problem with the league is also they are too damaged to give each other a healing support. All they can do is accept each other, which is more than the world was willing to do, but they do not know how to heal each other.
I don't think they believe they can heal... maybe at this point they don't even think they should do it.
Well, those are my feelings on how the League would react.
I know there are tons of people who think differently and I don't own the truth so I might be wrong. In the end, since there is not a canon answer, it is up to each reader to decide what they would do.
Thank you for your ask and sorry if my answer is sad and might not be what you wanted to hear.
I totally agree that the league would just let him do that, even though his choice will pain them. But letting him do that, reacting to it just after hearing or realizing touya's issue are different no? Cause I personally blv as u mentioned shuichi would have hard time accepting. And Twice would react pretty negatively imo and wont be outright be accepting, Compress too but he would be more accepting than Twice imo. I might be wrong, but the only one I think would fully accept it and even support it is Tomura. Hell he might even understand Dabi the most, if Dabi ever opened up to the league, the parallels these two have is insane.
Oh, undoubtedly the reactions would be different if the League had had the chance to react to it.
The problem comes mostly by how the majority of them were denied such chance.
In a parallel world where after Dabi's dance take place all the league is still alive, unpossessed and regroup in a safe area we could have the chance to see themdiscuss and react to the whole thing.
If you ask me...
I think Jin would cry, ask if there is something he can do to make things better and cry some more when he is told no. He'll try be supportive because Jin always try to be supportive but it'll be hard for him. He'll be very mad with Touya's family. If someone were to tell him there is a chance to make things right without Touya dying he would probably jump on it.
Shuuichi would probably get angry because he would need time to understand. Even when he'll understand he would probably not like it. He'll accept it but he'll still be angry and won't like it.
Himiko will try to accept, which mean she won't cry in front of Touya but privately, maybe with Jin. She'll make sure he knows she loves him though.
Atsuhiro will talk with him, listen to him, also try to tell him he cares, make sure Touya is sure that is what he really want, make sure Touya believes truly that there is no other option.
Tomura will probably be the fastest to understand and accept. They'll kind of have that sort of moment like 'I understand you and you understand me and our situation sucks but at least we're together in this and not alone'.
In the end the League will be there for him, still accepting and supporting him even through something that pains them.
But Horikoshi conveniently didn't have anyone discuss Touya's situation. Basically not even the Todorokis get to talk about how Touya is suicidal, even though Shouto and Enji should have realized it during the first war... but it kind of goes forgotten somehow.
Did the league know Touya was being actively suicidal? I doubt they did. What do you think they would do if they found out?
We have no canon info on this regard, however...
if I were to make a guess I would say before Dabi's dance the League had not the slightest idea of what was going on in Touya's mind.
He didn't reveal anything about himself and keep on his own so it would have been difficult for them to guess.
In theory they might have figured out post Dabi's dance but post Dabi's dance:
AFO likely figured but doesn't give a damn. As long as it doesn't hinders his plans Touya can rost himself all he wants and the same goes for Skeptic who also might have figured but he so not care he might not have done it. For him the League are pawns, as long as Touya's useful with his life or with his death that's all he cares about... also Garaki knows but he doesn't care and he is jailed... but I don't think you wanted to know about those three so let's dig into those who were the League core members.
Tomura was possessed so there's nothing he could do.
Atsuhiro was arrested so there's nothing he could do.
Jin was dead so there's nothing he could do.
Shuuichi seems to have missed the memo, I think he sees Touya so strong, someone who is the opposite of him, someone who has everything both in terms of Quirk and in terms of character that he failed to see the big hole inside Touya's heart.
Himiko might have figured out.
Now, assuming she did we do not know if she talked about it with Touya (it's possible she didn't dare to because she hoped she was wrong) because you see, the League has a BIG, VERY IMPORTANT, rule, they all can do what they want and they do not get in the way of each other but respect each other's will.
So even if Himiko had spoken with Touya... I think she would have still respected his will, even if his will pained her. I think she would let him know that his death would pain her, so that he would know that there is someone who believes his life matter, while at the same time letting him free to do as he prefer, so that Touya would also know there is someone in the world who would support him in pursuing whateer goal he wanted to pursue (opposed to his family who never supported him).
I said the others are basically cut from the discussion due to them being dead, captive, possessed, in denial but, even if they weren't I think they too would act this way. Let Touya know they care but that they would respect his choice. Maybe the one who'll have more troubles accepting it is Shuuichi, more because since he seems to believe Touya has everything he would probably find hard to accept Touya doesn't feel the same, but this wouldn't change the endgame. Ultimately they all would make clear they don't want Touya to die but would respect his will.
And yes, this means they'll let Touya die and this is sad and terrible but the problem with the league is also they are too damaged to give each other a healing support. All they can do is accept each other, which is more than the world was willing to do, but they do not know how to heal each other.
I don't think they believe they can heal... maybe at this point they don't even think they should do it.
Well, those are my feelings on how the League would react.
I know there are tons of people who think differently and I don't own the truth so I might be wrong. In the end, since there is not a canon answer, it is up to each reader to decide what they would do.
Thank you for your ask and sorry if my answer is sad and might not be what you wanted to hear.
Is martial rape a crime in japan? Did Horikoshi put it in his manga, why was thjs never mentioned agajn?
In Japan it's a crime only by July 13, 2023.
Chap 301, which hints at how Rei didn't agree with the idea of having more babies after Fuyumi's birth was printed on February 15th, 2021, in short two years before the whole thing was criminalized.
For a bit of backstory here, historically, it was deeply embedded in Japanese social conventions that marriage implied permanent sexual consent.
In the 2000s though Japanese courts issued rulings on a case-by-case basis that rejected a perpetrator's absolute immunity simply because they were married as long as the method used to require sexual intercourses exceeded the limits of what is socially acceptable. Yes, the phrasing is vague because it was left up to the court's decision but basically, if Enji had assaulted a kicking and screaming Rei and she could prove it, there were chances he would be judged guilty.
By the way, this was true for every sexual intercourse, even the ones in which you weren't married, the victim had to strongly oppose to the sex for court to accept she might not have been consenting.
In 2017 there is an improvement as amendments were made that eliminated the requirement that the victim physically had to resist, though spousal rape is still not mentioned.
And so we get to 2023 when the crime is redefined from "forcible sexual intercourse" to "non-consensual sexual intercourse", it explicitly integrated the crime of penetrative sexual assault between spouses into the statute and outlined specific scenarios where it is difficult for a victim to form or express consent (such as being intoxicated, intimidated, or experiencing an abuse of power). As a result, spousal rape is now unambiguously recognized and punishable as non-consensual sexual intercourse under Article 177 of the updated Japanese Penal Code.
The punishment is, by the way, imprisonment with work for a definite term of not less than 5 years.
What all this means?
That very clearly Horikoshi hadn't the slightest intention to have Enji commit something that could be considered rape by the standards of 2021.
This means Enji didn't drag a kicking and screaming Rei to their Futon and took her while she begged him to stop.
Likely Rei saw as one of her duties as a wife to sleep with Enji, as, as said before historically, it was deeply embedded in Japanese social conventions that marriage implied permanent sexual consent and if this wasn't enough Enji married Rei for the specific purpose of making babies with the right Quirk.
I wouldn't be surprised if they never stopped sleeping together through their whole marriage. Likely all Rei wanted of him when he told her they should have a third son was for them to continue to use contraceptives so as not to have more babies and not to stop having sex.
Rei doesn't claim she doesn't want to sleep with him, just that having more babies would be cruel toward Touya and her shock comes from how she sees Enji's obsession.
By the way currently in Japan if a man ignores a woman's request for contraception and continues intercourse, he violates her rights, rendering him liable for financial compensation. The problem is the ruling establishing this dates July 19, 2024.
On the other side under Japan's Maternal Health Act, women can face up to a year of imprisonment if they undergo sterilization without their spouse's consent.
So yeah, there's still jail for Rei if she tries to make sure not to have more babies, while only recently it was decided if Enji forces her to have more babies he should pay her compensation.
Due to all this my belief is that even though Horikoshi established Rei didn't want to have more babies, he didn't mean to paint it as a crime the fact that Enji continued to have unprotected sex with her with the deliberate purpose to have more babies and he probably didn't expect laws would change so that they would eventually consider what Enji did a crime.
After all chap 301 and 302 are written to try to tame down more what Enji did by spreading the blame on the whole Todoroki family, so it is unlikely he wanted to depict Enji committing extra crimes.
It was bad enough Enji did beat Rei, which is the only crime that Japanese law would consider at the time (provided Rei was willing to report him and had enough evidence, which at the time needed to be overwhelming) and which he conveniently doesn't have Touya to mention in his broadcast.
I'm confident he didn't want Enji to have more troubles from that side.
(All this doesn't mean I think what Enji did to Rei was okay, I actually find it was horrible and many countries would consider it a crime and rape but it sadly at the time it wasn't a crime in Japan and sadly that's all that matter for the story)
I hope all this can help you. Thank you for your ask!
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I find it interesting that Touya birthday has to do with ice and fire while Shouto's doesn't despite being the main one for that
Hum...
are you referring to the fact that the personality of who's born on January 18th is defined as possessing a unique blend of "fire and ice"?
It sure is interesting but the whole thing is just a metaphor to say people born on that day are creative and ambitious, filled with an intense drive, creative mastery, and a fiery desire to make a name for themselves (the fiery part) while at the same time reserved and analytical as they can appear cool, calm, and incredibly guarded often useing logic and pragmatism as a defense mechanism to manage their emotions and focus on reality (the ice part).
And this mix is supposedly caused by Touya having been born in what is something with another interesting name, the "Cusp of Mystery", the transitional period between Capricorn and Aquarius (roughly January 16 to January 22) which seems, funny enough, a reference to how originally he was meant to be the most mysterious character in the story.
Now, all this might not be a coincidence as I've heard of mangaka who call an astrologer to decide which will be the zodiac signs of their characters (as well as the blood types as in Japan they're kind of like to zodiac signs) and this might have pushed that person to chose that date.
On the other side most of this is tied to how it all would be translated so in Japan it might not sound like it does for us and the chosing of this date could be casual.
What is your opinion on Bakugou? As a hero he also doesn't actually see the villains as humans, but I think with him it's more like a video game were you defeat stronger villains to upgrade.
As he is at the end of the series, I care for Bakugou basically not at all.Ā I think he had a lot more promise and was a lot more interesting when he was getting teamwork plots, had a lingering connection to Shigaraki, and was allowed to present meaningful personal challenges to Deku and All Might in their capacity as bearers of One For All.
Basically, to me, Bakugou was at his best when he was taking All Might to task for being so secretive, taking Deku to task for trying to go it alone, and could feasibly offer some insight on Shigaraki (and also take him to task about taking his rehabilitation seriously post-series!).
Itās suggestive of potential plotlines we could have had that the three good guys Shigaraki tried to talk about his views with were All Might (USJ), Deku (the mall), and Bakugou (the kidnapping)āthe exact same three whoād later be having so many private conversations about Dekuās role as the new bearer of OFA.Ā Also too, both All Might and Dekuās first impulse to getting a glimpse of Shigaraki as a child in need (All Mightās being AFOās bombshell reveal at Kamino, Dekuās his brush with Shigarakiās psyche at Jakku) is to want to save him; while Bakugou didnāt and I think wouldnāt have that impulse, he could still weigh in on it via sharing his angle on Shigarakiās motivations in gathering other Villains and also that tidbit about Shigaraki calling the hand on his face āFather.ā
Bakugou would also have been uniquely well-situated to relate to a hypothetical post-series Shigaraki trying to atone for his crimes.Ā I talked about this in an ask reply forever ago, but Shigaraki and Bakugou have a common personality trait in that theyāre fairly black and white thinkers, unsparing with themselves and others.Ā Bakugou would therefore be able to relate to Shigaraki as someone whoād done very bad things in the past while also not cutting him any slack about doing better going forward, which I think Shigaraki would respond to better than cloying sympathy or absolute forgiveness.
Putting Bakugou up against All For One does absolutely none of that, while simultaneously removing him as a challenge to All Might and Dekuās worst instincts and pissing all over the themes about teamwork and relying on others Bakugou had been growing into throughout the series, most prominently in Kamino, the Joint Training arc, and the Edgy Deku arc.
Itās a damn waste, is what it is.
Incidentally, what I said about Bakugou being unsparing also applies to how he views Villains, at least it could have.Ā He doesnāt approach them with any sympathy because he thinks people have to be responsible for their actions, and Villains, in acting the way they do, are just running away from responsibility.Ā Itās a form of weakness, and heās got no time or patience for weakness.[1] Thatās how I tend to read him, rather than him not seeing Villains as people.Ā While he does use language like that here and there, especially at the beginning, once he starts growing past that āGet out of my way, extras!ā stage, Iām a lot more inclined to treat his language as bluster and boisterousness.Ā (Compare it to All For Oneās use of the same kind of language, for exampleāAFO is dead serious about not seeing other people as people because his endgame writing dissolves into pure solipsistic caricature.)
1: He relaxes that militancy a few times in the storyāsee e.g. the way he softens a little on Shouto after finding out about the whole abusive father+dead brother thing, and how light a touch he is with Aoyama post-traitor reveal, but those are both him being gentle compared to his usual approach, not objectively kind and patient!
And those are my broad thoughts on Bakugou.Ā I realize theyāre heavily slanted towards how he relates to Villains rather than e.g. talking about his relationship to Deku or taking sides in the eternal Bakugou Defense versus Anti Bakugou wars, but like, making everything about the Villains is my brand here, so.Ā XD
why do you think Deku never tried to talk to Shigaraki? doylist reason is obvious but what's the watsonian reason?
Honestly, this oneās pretty tricky to answer.Ā Itās very hard to get myself into the headspace of Deku (and the people in his own headspace!)āmainly because I get extremely uncharitable, extremely quickly.Ā Mainly about Horikoshi, yes, but that does extend to Deku, too, as well as the broader world he lives in.
The brain goes immediately to answers like, āHis world is so incredibly slanted towards retributive models of justice that the fact that he even thinks about wanting to know Shigarakiās motivations makes him a candidate for mad sainthood to the people around him.Ā The fact that he doesnāt follow that impulse through all the way to actually asking is immaterial; while Villains have to be punished for their actions, for Heroes, itās the thought that counts.ā
See how Iām already drifting back towards meta-narrative analysis at the end there?Ā Deku brings a lot of that out in me, especially from Villain Hunt onwards.Ā Like the wooden doll heās named for, he comes off to me as a vessel for the plot to happen through more than he does a consistently written, well-thought-out character.Ā Trying to think of him through a purely Watsonian lensāno refences made at all, period, to what I think the story was trying to express or what Horikoshiās intentions towards that story wereāI almost immediately jump the tracks into territory that is all but certainly incompatible with what I was āsupposedā to take away from MHA as a story.
But, you did ask, so Iāll follow the thought experiment through.Ā If I were to try and set down to paper an explanation for Dekuās actions from a purely in-universe stanceāsay, for writing canon compliant post-series fanficāwhat would be my explanation?
(Hit the jump.)
Right off the bat, from a cultural perspective, I think Deku is afraid that if he tries to make excuses for Shigaraki, it would be disrespectful to Shigarakiās victims.Ā Thatās why you get the heroic characters constant harping on about how they canāt forgive the Villains, even though, as adjuncts to the police, āforgivenessā is utterly immaterial to them doing their jobs.Ā Too much sympathy for criminals, in some peoplesā eyes, becomes indicative of a lack of proper regard for the victims of crime; this is very much a dynamic in play in Japanās legal system.[1] Ā Ochaco initially has the same impulse, where sheās terrified that even thinking about Toga Himikoās human circumstances puts her in danger of forgetting the suffering Toga and the League brought about.
1: Thatās a meta consideration, yes, but one that I think the target audience would understand to be implicit in the canon as written, so Iām treating it as a Watsonian detail.
Ochaco and Deku commiserate and ultimately encourage each other to embrace their desire to understand their respective Villains, which leads to Ochaco talking to Toga at some length!Ā Ochaco must do this because asking Toga these questions if the only way she has to reach that understanding.Ā Deku does not have to ask, however, because he has a cheatmode to fall back on: the mindscape shared between All For One and One For All.Ā If Deku thinks too much open communication with Villains risks dishonoring Shigarakiās victims, well, he doesnāt have to openly communicate.Ā He doesnāt have to talk to Shigaraki the person at all.Ā He just has to find that crying little boy in the mindscape again.
I also think itās notable that Deku very much does stop talking about wanting to save Shigaraki after he talks to Gran Torino.Ā From that point on, everything he says about Shigaraki becomes about wanting to understand him instead.Ā Coupled with the idea that he insists upon not forgiving Shigaraki, I get the sense that what Deku wants is not to help Shigaraki at all, but rather to simply bear witness to his truth.Ā And even that much feels self-serving to meāas if Deku doesnāt care so much that Shigaraki is in pain, but rather that Shigaraki might have a point, that Shigarakiās pain might be valid.Ā Shigaraki having a valid point would destabilize everything Deku believes about Heroes and Hero Society, and Deku has, by that point, seen enough that heās too upright to look away, to āsweep things back under the rug,ā so he has to find out Shigarakiās story to judge it for himself.
The fact that he feels he has the right to judge Shigarakiās story speaks to the arrogance of Heroesāthe same arrogance that leads them to declare their lack of forgiveness as if itās in some way relevant to doing the job in front of themāas well as a deeply rooted defensiveness: that they must have, and be perceived as having, the moral high ground over those evil Villains. Ā I think, for example, of the Flaminā Sidekickers and their cringingly awkward self-justifications to Dabi about their continued association with Todoroki Enji.Ā Their reasoning has zero bearing on either Dabiās pain or their own heroic responsibilities to assist in the arrest of a known murderer/terrorist/arsonist, but they feel the need to spell that reasoning out to the child abuse victim/volatile Villain anyway, seemingly for no in-character reason save to rationalize the deep discomfort that Dabiās video accusations provoked in them.
Heroes must be seen as morally justāthis is the whole basis for the authority theyāve been granted to wield their powers against other people.Ā Best Jeanist talks about this idea explicitly, as does Police Chief Tsuragamae. Ā Far more damningly, itās what led to the HPSC using agents like Lady Nagant and Hawks to quietly dispose of anyone that would present a threat to the public image of Heroes and, by extension, the fragile peace that rests on that public image.
Heroes must be pure and righteous, and Deku is just as apt to believe that as any other Heroāmaybe even more apt, given that heās also had All Might leaning on him about the bearer of One For All being the Pillar and the Symbol of Peace.Ā All this baggage winds up conflicting, however, with the horror and reflexive need to help Deku feels upon seeing the small, crying child within Shigaraki.
Saving small crying children is the absolute, innermost core of Dekuās personal framing of Heroismāseriously, he says this nearly word-for-word in Chapter 1!āand so, like Shouji says of the heteromorph riot, it isnāt something he can ignore and still call himself a Hero.Ā Heās unprepared for that personal brand of Heroism to conflict with the demands of professional Heroism, because he never expected to face someone who was both Evil Villain and Crying Child at the same time.Ā This is what he wrestles with over the course of his time away from UA and why, ultimately, he decides to use the mindscape as a way of resolving the conflict.
(Note again that I'm talking about my fanfic explanation here. Deku's reasoning is much murkier in the canon because of the canon's late turn towards locking us hard out of Deku's personal feelings and thoughts when they're about anything more complex than chain OFA combo moves.)
Remember that Deku begins the Villain Hunt Arc with a tentative desire to āunderstand Villainsā so that he can perhaps use that understanding to avert or at least deescalate conflicts with themāand then the very first Villain he falteringly tries to understand is fucking Muscular, who shuts him down cold.Ā Deku never tries that hard[2] to understand a Villain againāLady Nagant dumps her backstory on him with very little prompting from him, he has nothing but ultimatums for Overhaul, he doesnāt seem to ask any of AFOās other minions any personal questions whatsoever, and with Shigaraki, he goes straight to the mindscape instead of even attempting a dialogue.
2: Insomuch as you could call asking three invasive, judgy questions in the middle of combat and then throwing in the towel ātrying hardā.
My take is that Muscular scared him off of trying to verbally uncover the backstories of Villainsāeven though Shigaraki is ready to all but hand the first Hero to ask an illustrated history of his grievances with Hero Society, Deku canāt trust that anything Shigaraki tells him will be the unvarnished truth.Ā Unlike Shouto, he has no one to corroborate the truth with, but unlike Uraraka, he doesnāt just have to make the best of it, either.Ā He can instead utilize the mindscape, an approach that sidesteps all of the issues that a spoken dialogue would entail:
Getting Shigarakiās truth via the mindscape means he can trust the answers he gets, rather than having to filter those answers through Shigarakiās warped worldview.Ā This allows him to honestly evaluate Shigarakiās perspective, gauging whether Shigaraki has a real point that Deku has any responsibility to address, some injustice that needs to be corrected independently of Shigaraki being held accountable for his crimes.
ā ā ā
Having decided thatāfor reasons of justice, All Mightās Pillar mentality, and his own peace of mindāhe has to know Shigarakiās truth, Deku comes to feel self-righteously entitled to that truth. Ā Thus, even though Shigaraki always seemed perfectly willing to share his thoughts in their previous encounters, Deku canāt take the chance that heāll change his mind and rebuff Deku like Muscular did.Ā Using the mindscape takes that agency away from Shigaraki, rendering his willingness to share moot.
ā ā ā
No one other than people with access to the shared mindscape can perceive the interactions happening within it.Ā This means that, no matter what Deku learns or how he reacts to it in the moment, he doesnāt risk being seen as disrespecting Shigarakiās victims by prioritizing the feelings and perspective of a vicious terrorist.
ā ā ā
Finally, on a tactical note, the encounter Deku has with Shigaraki in the mindscape during the Jakku battle seems to happen nigh instantaneously.Ā If he can get his answers at the speed of thought, that means he doesnāt have to specifically draw out his battle with Shigaraki until heās resolved things to his personal satisfaction.Ā This is ideal, since Shigaraki presents an incredibly dangerous threat to everything and everyone around him, and Dekuās Hero education has repeatedly emphasized the importance of ending battles quickly.
There's just one problem with all this: Deku is assuming access to Shigarakiās mind.Ā And why wouldnāt he?Ā He got in there without even trying last time, after all!Ā I assume thatās also why he rolls up to the battle with zero plans of any kind: he doesnāt understand how the mechanics of the shared mindscape work and none of the prior bearers can advise him because itās a brand-new phenomenon for him as the ninth bearer, so theyāre just as clueless about it as he is.Ā
Lacking that knowledge, he opts to simply take it on faith that heāll be able to access that mental space again, find the crying child in it, and uncover enough about Shigarakiās history to render his own judgement of it.Ā He's the Deku who does his best, after all; if it doesn't work, at least he'll know he tried. The good faith attempt, however it turns out, will allow him to satisfy his own sense of justice while not interfering with whatever temporal justice the adult Heroes are planning for Shigarakiāto which Deku fully believes he must be subjected as punishment for his crimes!ābe it arrest or an execution broadcast to the entire world.
Unfortunately for Deku, thanks to his being waylaid by Toga, he turns up late to the battle only to find Shigarakiās psyche sealed up tighter than an All Might-themed wall safe.Ā Then, since he never had any kind of plan for talking to Shigaraki, and his own ability to plan things is strictly limited to combining quirk abilities on the fly, he has to wing it until Kudou is able to come up with a plan for him.Ā Naturally, because Kudou is Kudou, and Heroesā solutions are tailored to Heroesā strengths, this involves violent psychic assault.Ā And why not?Ā Itās not like Deku believes Shigaraki deserves the mercy of a gentler approach.Ā Just think of all those people he hurt!
Now, is this all heckinā uncharitable?Ā Does it paint Deku as well-intended but blindly self-righteous and ethically timid? Oh, for sure.Ā And I do think there was a point at which Deku wanted to save Shigaraki in a truer senseāindeed, heās quite plain-spoken about it in the OFA Mental Conference in the aftermath of the first war!Ā However, itās absolutely within his established characterization to run into things that make him uneasy and take the first out an authority figure offers him that spares him the work of demolishing and rebuilding his entire world view. Ā Look no further than the aftermath of the mall scene. You can draw a straight line from Deku taking Tsukauchi's out (that Shigaraki is just a sore loser) to him also taking Gran's (that killing Shigaraki could be a way of saving him).
Thatās the mentality I would lean on to explain Dekuās anemic efforts to truly save Shigaraki in the end: an inherent desire to help people that has been hamstrung by a learned dehumanization of Villains, a repeated emphasis on swift, unthinking action as a Heroic virtue, a culture that regards sympathy for those involved in a crime as a zero sum game, and, last but not least, a psychological complex about the basic nature of Heroism rooted in his fraught childhood.
Deku says heāll ānever forgetā Shigaraki. If it were me writing the sequel, ānever forgettingā would look an awful lot like, āFollowing a particularly frustrating day of the Pro Hero grind, Midoriya Izuku opens his eyes at 4AM one cold winter night in his early-40s with the horrible, inescapable realization that what he did as a teenager to a deeply victimized young man barely older than he was himself back then was fucked up in ways he can never repair or take back. Ā And further that now, not only is he going to have to spend the rest of his life trying to make up for that act, itās going to be much, much harder than it would have been back then, specifically because he did what he did back then and let the world get away with calling it heroism.ā
Thanks for the ask, anon! I hope you find the answer interesting and at least somewhat believable, for all that it certainly isn't tonally in-line with the story's portrayal of its much-lauded protagonist.
ā ā ā
(P.S. On top of convincing both All Might and Deku to not pursue saving Shigaraki in any concrete sense, Gran Torino also takes partial credit for Nana's decision to abandon Kotarou. Torino Sorahiko might actually be the all-time world champion of convincing OFA bearers that preserving One For All is worth abandoning children to their grim fates. Give him a hand, everyone. What a great and admirable Hero who absolutely deserved to survive all the way to the end of the story and who definitely is not a symbol of all the most jaded and cynical priorities of the old order.)
So I have stumbled on your mha rants. And I find your one of the few that really goes in depth with analysis/criticism wich I like reading. I have seen your criticism on Deku and see what you mean, but I link them beinf a result from him being a victim as well (bullying) and him not properly processing it. I feel that he himself is the depiction of a 'perfect victim" and pushes his perfect victim ideals to other victims if it makes sense what I'm saying. Him linking being forgiving with goodness, makes sense how he operates with Bakugou. Essentially what I'm saying he has deep issues and I think it's a result from his background (bullying/quirklessness) I wondered if you see it like that too.
I could see it, certainly.Ā A while back, I got an ask about what I thought the Watsonian reason (that is, the in-character reason rather than the Doylist/meta-textual one) was for why Deku never really tried to talk to Shigaraki in the endgame.Ā Itās very difficult for me to think about Deku in Watsonian terms, but after rambling about it for a while, my answer boiled down to this:
[He has] an inherent desire to help people that has been hamstrung by a learned dehumanization of Villains, a repeated emphasis on swift, unthinking action as a Heroic virtue, a culture that regards sympathy for those involved in a crime as a zero sum game, and, last but not least, a psychological complex about the basic nature of Heroism rooted in his fraught childhood.
You can see that touches on his past as a bullying victim, but it wasnāt something I talked about a lot in the post.Ā Because Iād talked about it in other posts before, I only vaguely alluded to how his history as a ācrying childā leads him to base his whole concept of heroism around what heroes do/mean for crying children, and how that conceptual identity influences who he is or isnāt able to perceive as a victim.Ā So while thatās not exactly the same thing as your read of Deku as having hang-ups about āperfect victimhood,ā I think itās definitely compatible with it.
The trouble I have with committing to this readāboth yours and my own!āis that it is so very Watsonian, and so many of my problems with Deku and his actions are so very Doylist.Ā Like, itās all well and good for us to outline how Deku struggles to see people like Shigaraki or Dabi or whoever as legitimate victims because of his personal views on how victims are supposed to behave, but a lot of those views strike me as not merely personal but cultural.Ā Views very similar to Dekuās are espoused by any number of characters throughout the comic, both characters who do have similarly abuse-riddled backstories as Deku (Shouto, Shoji) and characters who donāt (Ochaco, Best Jeanist, the Flaminā Sidekickers, that one Hero Toga murked, etc).
Think of everyone who ever tells a Villain, āIām sure youāve suffered, but when you [take X action Heroes donāt approve of], youāve gone too far!āĀ These characters never have real solutions to offer, only rebuke.Ā They all have a āperfect victimā problem, bullying or no bullying, and thatās exactly what makes me think that the problem lies chiefly in Horikoshiās views, not those of any given character.
This is particularly clear in that post-series anecdote we got from his editor about how much Horikoshi struggled to decide on Togaās fate.Ā He had ideas about her surviving but being in prison; for a while he was writing towards an ending where she just vanished, showing up to take things Ochaco left for her like an elusive faerie.Ā But he couldnāt make himself write that ending because he thought Toga had to ātake responsibilityā for her crimes.Ā You would think the way for her to do that would be to submit to the justice system and serve her time in prison, but he obviously viewed her being in prison as too much of a punishmentāas well he might, since his settingās incarceration conditions are cartoonishly inhumane.
Of course, the obvious solution seems to me that someone should try to make the prison conditions less outrageously awful, but that seems to never have crossed his mind.Ā Itās certainly a common enough irl view: prison conditions are bad because theyāre a punishment; if you donāt want to be punished, donāt break the law.Ā This kind of simplistic, moralistic view has no room for nuance, for discussions of kind or degree.Ā The stark absence of anyone in BNHA advocating for better prison conditions says quite clearly to me that Horikoshi agrees with that heavily punitive view.[1]
1: And thatās not even getting into the storyās glaring absence of any recognition of irl legal defensesācapacity, responsibility, necessity, duress, insanityāthat should logically figure into the sentencing of any number of BNHAās Villains, League or otherwise.Ā Is Mr. Broken Home, Raised In A Cult, Very Possibly A Minor, Preemptively Arrested Geten going to spend the rest of his life in prison?Ā Who knows!Ā His backstoryās apparently not sympathetic enough for Horikoshi to care about.Ā But I guess it at least means Geten survives, which is better than Toga can claim.
But that left him with the issue of how to treat Togaāif his settingās prisons were too harsh but complete freedom[2] was too lenient, what was the middle ground?Ā And apparently the only thing he could come up with, the only thing that seemed feasible and workable given the systems and characterizations heād already established, was for Toga to willingly sacrifice herself, gaining freedom but taking responsibility through the act of taking her own life.
2: Insomuch as being a fugitive for the rest of her life with none of the friends she made in the League would constitute any kind of freedom for Toga at all.
Horikoshi was obviously tremendously sympathetic to Togaāindeed, he had a lot of sympathy for all of the League characters else he wouldnāt have written them as such sympathetic figures to begin with, nor would he have written such sympathy into Ochaco, Deku, Shouto, Shouji, etc. Ā But he still had his own views on the consequences for āgoing too far,ā and I canāt ignore the way those views pervade the story at large.Ā So sure, maybe Deku does have a āperfect victimā mentality, but I donāt think that mentality is unique to him, and it not being unique to him makes it difficult for me to chalk it up as a unique consequence of his having been bullied.
That said, I thank you for your kind words on my rantings and ramblings, and thank you too for the ask!
If you don't mind more questions about Vigilantes, what do you think about Koichi's flaw as a character? I recall the mangaka on a character note stated that Koichi never gives himself more then he can handle.
Plus, his tendency to passively stay in his lane until he absolutely needs to in order to help/survive? I think it makes him even more of a unique protagonist, personally. And even more of an interesting foil to Deku. So I'm curious to know what you think?
Okay, so, I apologize for the delay on this reply.Ā I find I lag even more than usual when I get asks that are obviously sincere but which I just disagree with the whole premise of, because nobody sends asks this genuine expecting to get hammered and I hate to be the one delivering that sting.
On top of that, Iāve had a lot of personal life stuff going on (as I posted earlier), which made my inbox in general drop pretty far down my to-do list.Ā But I did want to answer this because I think it raises an interesting question, and I do have an answer about what I think Koichiās most significant character flaw is, even if I donāt think itās the one(s) you mentioned!Ā So I hope that you will take this answer in good faith, anon, if you see it, and thank you for your patience!
So, I had to go digging for this because I did not remember the author saying anything to the effect of what you mentioned, but I did eventually turn up the note in question in Volume 10, as reproduced below the jump:
Koichi's the type who never takes on any more responsibility than he can handle, so he pretty much never finds himself in a situation where he can't back off and beat a quick retreat. I found myself wondering, "What sort of enemy would he force himself to actually confront?"...And voila - the answer was "Oh, duh. Pop!" She's the only one who fits the bill...
Note how Furuhashi doesnāt actually describe this as a flaw of Koichiās, just an aspect of his personality that Furuhashi wanted to explore by forcing him into a situation when he couldnāt do what he normally would.Ā Itās basically forcing him to go Plus Ultra when he normally wouldnāt, and given that I donāt much care for the way the main series ultimately utilized the Plus Ultra thing, I certainly donāt mind that itās not a motto of Koichiās!
Like, I actually think you could just as easily read this as a marker of Koichiās maturity, or perhaps simply his age/experience, that he doesnāt take on more than he can handle.Ā Having a realistic bead on your capabilities and taking care not to exceed them is good self-care and responsible community member-ing, actually!Ā All Plus Ultra All The Time is, regardless of what the main series says, a nice short trip to Burnoutville!
As to him āpassively staying in his lane until he absolutely needs to,ā I donāt think I really get that from him?Ā I mean, this is a guy introduced to us as constantly going out of his way to help people, first as just a neighborhood do-gooder picking up trash and giving out advice on the train schedules, and later as a vigilante hero, always rushing towards the sound of screams rather than away from them.
In point of fact, I think Koichiās passivity is often exaggerated by people trying to compare himāusually unflatteringlyāto Deku, in ways that make it immediately apparent that they havenāt read the first chapter of the main series in quite some time.Ā Deku, too, is nonconfrontational with bullies and also hesitates to jump in and save someone for several pages right up until he gets a clear look at the desperate plea for help flashing in their eyes.Ā Setting aside the presence or absence of Heroes on-scene, Koichiās attempted rescue of Pop is way more 1:1 to the main series than a lot of people remember it being!
That said, where Koichi does āstay in his laneā is in prying into peoplesā business.Ā He doesnāt ask questions about Pop or Knuckledusterās personal lives; heās incredibly nonjudgmental (as Furuhashi notes in another character blurb on him in the final volume) about the Villains he fights; he doesnāt try to moralize or force some sort of ājusticeā on people whoāve done wrong, even to people whoāve wronged those he cares about, much less hurt him directly!
Thatās certainly got more aspects that cause him problems, and if youāre a reader who does expect some moralizing and justice-bringing from your protagonists (and god knows BNHA Core has no shortage of that), then I can see how Koichiās ready willingness to overlook crimes would grate!Ā But as I said so often about Heroes in the main series, their job is really just about keeping the peaceāstopping Villain attacks and saving people in (immediate) danger.Ā It isnāt part of their job description to be the dispensers of justice in this society, and it sure isnāt part of their job description to stand around moralizing about it!Ā So, again, I actually quite like this aspect of Koichi and donāt really consider it as flaw as such!
As to what I do think is Koichiās flaw, itās quite elegantly handled in that itās a flaw that stems from the same place as his virtueāa personality trait that can be positive or negative depending on the circumstances.Ā To wit, as part of being so nonjudgmental, Koichi is also extremely incurious.Ā He doesnāt really ponder the obvious disconnect between his admiration of Heroes and his own approach to heroism; he doesnāt ever try to have a conversation with Pop about all the times she gets particularly fed up with him; he doesnāt stop to consider how his friendliness with Soga and company might make Pop feel given what they tried to do to her; he doesnāt tend to ask questions about why Villains got so desperate as to embrace Villainy to begin with.
Koichi is, as a crimefighter and a protagonist, extremely pragmatic.Ā He deals with problems in front of him with as much compassion as he can manage and he doesnāt tend to worry about problems beyond his scope.Ā Furuhashi suggests in the last volume that Koichi had the luxury of being nonjudgmental because he didnāt have the responsibilities that a real Hero would, including by implication the responsibility of dispensing public moral censure.Ā That begs the question, however, of how Koichi will behave as an official Hero (or at least an official sidekick). One suspects that his āLetās all just walk away and nobody have to get arrested todayā attitude is not going to play very well in the United States or Japan!
I note that the Vigilantes epilogue is perfectly happy to only show Koichi dealing with a rescue operation rather than showing us how heās treating Villains.Ā Unlike the main series cast, Koichi was never really asked to confront How He Deals With Villains by his narrativeāhe was never as harsh with them as Deku & Friends anyway!āso it doesnāt feel as egregious as it did in the main series when the Vigs epilogue dodges the issue.[1]Ā Still, itās not a great look that the series just lets his transition from vigilante to pro slide by as a good ending, as if it hasnāt been made manifestly clear that Koichi doesnāt act like a Pro Hero is supposed to act.
1: Or outright bungles it, as in BNHAās volume extra chapter, in which the great new ācontinuing to offer help where itās not asked forā Class 1-A grads collectively treat a panicked carjacker in exactly the same way Mount Lady treated a panicked purse thief in the first fucking chapter. /dead horse flogging
In any case, while it should be fairly obvious from the preceding paragraph that I donāt have a huge problem with Koichiās approach to Villains, at least compared to how theyāre doing it over in the main series, I do think itās a character trait that limits how much good heās apt to be able to do on a structural scale.Ā Whether because he doesnāt question how the system heās now joined treats Villains or because his own approach to Villains disregards the needs and feelings of victims, Koichi is certainly no model for Responsible Pro Heroism!
And heroism aside, itās definitely more of a flaw for him on the personal level.Ā My god, just imagine what it would be like to date someone who can tell when youāre angry but just doesnāt care enough to talk to you seriously about the problem.Ā Pop even still being interested in Koichi after he proves willing to shrug off Soga's actions towards her is so glaringly bad I can only chalk it up as a problem on the writer side rather than try to rationalize it from Pop's in-character perspective.
And like, obviously Pop had her own massive issues with being a bad communicator, but even someone as stellar at communication as Makoto would still have the right to demand better from Koichi in a romantic relationship!Ā The fact that Koichi probably developed this problem as a result of having an abusive mother does not make it not a problem or not a flaw; it just makes it a sympathetic one.
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A life time ago you said something about shoto fighting dabi and geten ( I really still can't believe he didn't end up doing anything of relevance ) and I'm curious on how you think shoto would be able to defeat them in the first place . From what I recal geten ice withstood dabis flames so while shoto could still take dabi down with phospor I really don't know how he'd beat geten , unless phospur has some kind of burning property ? Which considering it's a blend of both shotos quirks and the actual element phosporus does , it's not unlikely .
But honestly shotos only role in the role being spamming the same move twice is kinda anticlimactic and lame and making him do it a third time wouldn't be any better (despite the fact that I find phospur as a concept really cool and I like shoto geing out of his way to actually come up with a plan but yk still kinda wish there was something more to their fight )
Thatās one of those things I largely file under, āUnless and until I have to write fanfic about it, thatās Horikoshiās job to figure out, not mine.ā Ā But given Phosphor's treatment in the story as a move Shouto came up with specifically to beat Touya (singular), as well as its thematic weight as an inversion of everything Endeavor wanted (using his fire to make his body capable of handling his ice rather than the other way around), an optimum solution, thematically speaking, would have to be something that faces up to the problems on the Himura side of the family.
The issue there is obviously that, in the same way that Shouto holds Endeavor personally responsible for all his familyās problems rather than thinking at all about how Hero Society shaped Endeavor and ignored the obvious signs of the Todoroki familyās abuse, he also never seems to direct any blame to his motherās side of the family despite how culpable they are for Rei being in the situation she was in.Ā In my ideal world, Shouto would not be quite so narrow of focus.
That said, I think you probably could tweak Phosphor such that it could deal with both Dabi and Getenāwhat Phosphor does is largely arbitrary on Horikoshiās part, after all; it could have the effects tweaked as long as they remain believably within Shoutoās power set!Ā And he definitely doesnāt have to just do the same trick twice, much less three times!Ā If youāre rewriting the story anyway, all you have to do is not write it Like That.Ā For my tastes, Endeavor needs to get taken out of play in the first warādeath, coma, quirk loss, anything that will mean Dabiās focus can squarely be on Shouto rather than on murder-suicide with his father.
Youād also need to give Geten some reason to be focused on Shouto, who he has no motivation to care about as anything other than an obstacle in the story as-is.Ā Shouto is a direct symbol of all of Touyaās issues, after all, but heās pretty far downstream from Getenās![1] The thing that most immediately suggests itself to me is putting Shouto in between Geten and Re-Destro somehow, though admittedly that just puts us back with someone Shouto's fighting having a priority of getting through him to the father (figure) on the other side.Ā I think thatās more forgivable for Geten v. Shouto, though, given that they are more distantly connected than Shouto and Dabi.Ā Probably no matter what you do, itās more important for Shouto to find a reason to give a shit about Geten than it is Geten to give a shit about Shouto, for the same reason thatās true for Deku and Shigaraki, Ochaco and Toga, and basically the whole overarching theme of Heroes reaching out to Villains.
1: Endeavor isnāt uninvolved, in that marriages to outsiders were the inciting incident of the extended clanās collapse, but we donāt even know if his and Reiās was the first such marriage.Ā Even if it was, given that Enji and Rei met via omiai, the clan collapse would still likely have dated to the Himura approaching a matchmaker to begin with, not Endeavorās offer however much later it was brought to them.Ā Marriage to a domestic abuser is a nasty end result of the Himurasā problems, not a direct cause of them, so Enji and his in-home eugenics program are ultimately pretty peripheral to Geten.
In any case, as to how Shouto can beat Geten, Getenās trick against fire-users is using remaining ice chips or fresh infusions of ice from outside the battlefield to refreeze his melted ice.Ā A hot enough fire applied sufficiently quickly would mean no remaining ice chips, but from what we saw in My Villain Academia, Getenās range is quite significant!Ā Youād never be able to stop him from getting more ice so long as you were fighting him in an urban area you werenāt okay with getting wholly incinerated, so youād need to put him e.g. on an island like the Heroes did with Toga.Ā Per the story, of course, thatās a simple enough thing to make happen, but is it Narratively Fitting?
Well, I suppose you could try to spin that act of purposeful isolation as being Narratively Fitting to the Himura Problem. Given that their whole thing is being a clan of ice/snow/cold quirks, removing Geten from the presence of ice could be read as symbolic for removing him from the scope of his clanās damage. It feels a little reachy to me, though, and doesnāt remotely address his whole thing with Re-Destro and the MLA.Ā Of course, the MLA and particularly Getenās quirk supremacist beliefs are a thing Shouto could also stand to give a shit about, given how much heās a literal incarnation of his fatherās attempts to create a supreme quirk, and therefore the life of pain heās endured is something that would logically become much more commonplace in a quirk supremacist society like the MLA[2] is trying to enact.
2: Or at least the MLA as written in the second war, which I would also change.
But thatās about the sum of my thoughts, I think.Ā A rewrite doesnāt have to be stupidly repetitive if the author doesnāt want it to be, and Shouto beating Geten is doable but him doing so in a narratively satisfying way would demand he be willing to acknowledge the existence of any problems in his world other than his abusive father.Ā Thanks for the ask!
What's crazy is that the author could have easily had Touya still have an accident on the mountain, without any need for retcons.
He just set everything on fire by accident while practicing with his power, and then goes down to smoke inhalation. You know, the thing he, Enji and Shoto aren't immune to. They resist fire, not carbon emissions.
If the fire spread to him while he was unconscious, and they believed him to be dead, we keep the tragic accident. Notably, if he's knocked out, his quirk would turn off and he'd stop spreading fire.
The Todorokis can't control the fire once it leaves their body. If Endeavor sets something on fire, he can stop shooting fire, but he can't snuff out the existing flames. It'll burn until it's done burning.
These guys need to breathe just like everyone else. Carbon Monoxide (CO) is harmful to everyone.
So the story would show Touya practicing with his power, and starting a mundane forest fire he cannot control nor shut off, and while trying to escape he collapses from smoke inhalation and gets burned.
It's also more easy to believe AFO could save him from this because by all rights there really shouldn't have been anything left of Touya after his canon accident. Even dousing himself in water should have boiled the water away instantly.
This also patches a major canon question of how Endeavor didn't go to jail over this.
His son blew up a mountain in canon. Realistically, fire that hot would have turned the place into a glass filled crater. It would have been seen for MILES away. The heat would have altered weather patterns. The public would demand answers.
And since the only person in Japan known to have a super powerful fire quirk is Endeavor and his bloodline, the suspicion instantly falls on him.
One conversation with his wife or any of his children by an investigator would ruin Endeavor.
This would require a police coverup of unimaginable levels and Endeavor would owe the HPSC EVERYTHING.
Now, that's not said in the text at all. Endeavor doesn't imply any sort of debt to the government, nor does Hawks reference the sheer number of favors the government would have to call in to keep him out of prison.
So the author just expects you not to think about it.
But in a timeline where it was just a tragic accident where a kid went and burned down a forest when his dad was at work, people think Touya was trying to go plus ultra and it went bad.
Not that Endeavor drove his son to self detonate and take a mountain with him.
Endeavor is, of course, still guilty of child neglect given he knew the boy would go up on that mountain and he intentionally ignored him to try to get him to give up.
But one scenario by all rights should end with him behind bars and the other would end with him giving a press conference where he holds back tears on TV.
Letās face it, the whole thing with Touya is poorly planned.
>What's crazy is that the author could have easily had Touya still have an accident on the mountain, without any need for retcons. He just set everything on fire by accident while practicing with his power, and then goes down to smoke inhalation. You know, the thing he, Enji and Shoto aren't immune to. They resist fire, not carbon emissions. If the fire spread to him while he was unconscious, and they believed him to be dead, we keep the tragic accident. Notably, if he's knocked out, his quirk would turn off and he'd stop spreading fire.
Yes, this would be a possibility but it is also a possibility that, same as the canon one, cuts out any intervention into setting this from AFO. I mean, all the rambling AFO makes about keeping an eye on Enji and then all he did was get lucky because Touya conveniently burned himself but survived long enough for AFO to find out, drop by and swept him away? It feels pretty tame, more of a lucky shoot than AFO doing some solid work. If we compare it to all the work he did with Tenko well, itās really minimal.
>The Todorokis can't control the fire once it leaves their body. If Endeavor sets something on fire, he can stop shooting fire, but he can't snuff out the existing flames. It'll burn until it's done burning.
Iām not really getting into a debate about what the Todorokis can do with fire and what they can because fire actually does all Horikoshi wants in this story. I mean Touya set to fire the forest and he and the League walk through it comfortably instead than running away like crazy.
When his clone faced Aizawa he tossed a huge flame thatā¦ somehow disappeared moments after.
When his other clone attacked the place where Vlad King was in again it tossed a huge flame inside the building thatā¦ only burned the door and set nothing else on fire.
When he starts burning the thugs somehow the fire do not spread to the buildings.
When he attacks Enji after the latter fought a Nomu he managed to trace a perfect circle around them, meaning his fire turned but when he disappeared his fire disappeared completely too, without spreading to anything else.
Hell, when he set Hawks to fire the latter only reported some burns instead than getting turned into dust. And the building in which they were fighting previously which he filled with fire? It didnāt became a torch.
So Horikoshi could have done whatever with Touyaās fire on Sekoto because he really has no fixed rules regarding it. Touyaās fire is pure Quirk magic, it works the way Horikoshi wants it to.
And yeah, he could have used it better since he could use it the way he wanted. But he didnāt. He just didnāt plan things thought and the scene became messy.
>It's also more easy to believe AFO could save him from this because by all rights there really shouldn't have been anything left of Touya after his canon accident. Even dousing himself in water should have boiled the water away instantly.
If you ask me Iām of the opinion Touya shouldnāt even have managed to reach the river. If his body was starting to melt to the point his jaw literally felt, the muscles on his legs should have also ended up completely melted to the point he couldnāt move. But again, fire does what Horikoshi wants it to do in this story.
Touya receiving less damage would have surely helped making more believable AFO could save him. I still do not get why Horikoshi decided that Touya, who has some resistance to fire, had to burn so completely while Hawks, who doesnāt have fire resistance only got some scars on his back and some damage to his wings. Horikoshi should have just accepted Hawks had to die.
>This also patches a major canon question of how Endeavor didn't go to jail over this. His son blew up a mountain in canon. Realistically, fire that hot would have turned the place into a glass filled crater. It would have been seen for MILES away. The heat would have altered weather patterns. The public would demand answers. And since the only person in Japan known to have a super powerful fire quirk is Endeavor and his bloodline, the suspicion instantly falls on him. One conversation with his wife or any of his children by an investigator would ruin Endeavor. This would require a police coverup of unimaginable levels and Endeavor would owe the HPSC EVERYTHING. Now, that's not said in the text at all. Endeavor doesn't imply any sort of debt to the government, nor does Hawks reference the sheer number of favors the government would have to call in to keep him out of prison.
Iām not sure why you think Enji should go to jail over this. The police likely knows Touya accidentally set Sekoto Peak on fire and died there. Enji wasnāt there when the mountain took fire. Chap 302 shows the fire was seen from a huge distance and Enji was out in the city and among people when it became visible. We see him screaming among them and moving toward the fire. The people might not have missed the Hero Endeavor was there when the fire took place, so he couldnāt set the mountain on fire.
Itās not know if the public know it was Touya who started the fire but Enji and his family arenāt so suspicious. As said before it is easy to prove Enji wasnāt there and no one knew Touyaās fire was that hot, as his flames has turned blue only recently and he told no one.
Plus not only fire Quirks are canonically common so Enji, Touya and Shouto arenāt the only ones that can be suspected, but fires can start for accident or be started on purpose by Villains and generic criminals or arsonists so there are potentially other candidates.
The police might have asked for legal compensation from Enji but they might have wanted to spare the Todorokis from having their son blamed for it by the public and hid it was Touya who set the mountain on fire, same as they kept hidden it was Midoriya, Shouto and Iida who defeated Stain but still has legally punished Enji, Gran Torino and Manual for how they failed to stop the kids from being involved.
So while I believe Enji had to pay for the damage, unless he had some sort of insurance for accidental damage caused by his children due to loss of control of their Quirk, I doubt any conversation they might have with Rei or the kids could ruin Enji or send him to jail, since in Japan you can leave children younger than Touya without supervision even now, but especially when that story was written and we have no info about other people apart from Touya dying in the fire.
Legally speaking the only thing Enji did to his family that at the time constituted a crime was beating Rei, something over which the Japanese police at the time wasnāt really prone to investigate (preferring to turn a blind eye or just give a quick scolding and urging the parties involved to make up) and that was really, really hard to prove and even when you could prove it judges and laws werenāt really interested in punishing you. Things have improved recently but they are still pretty bad.
Long story short, maybe if something were to come up it would be bad for his PR team as public opinion might not take his side (though if his PR team is good they might even persuade them of the contrary) but jail is definitely out of question.
That is why neither Enji nor Hawks face legal troubles after Touyaās video and why Horikoshi didnāt have Touya reveal in it that Enji beat Rei, which would have been the only thing that could constitute a crime (though again the police would have not investigate unless Rei was interested in pressing charges which she wasnāt, never mentioning she would have lacked what the Japanese law would considered proof good enough to set up a trial over it).
>So the author just expects you not to think about it. But in a timeline where it was just a tragic accident where a kid went and burned down a forest when his dad was at work, people think Touya was trying to go plus ultra and it went bad. Not that Endeavor drove his son to self detonate and take a mountain with him. Endeavor is, of course, still guilty of child neglect given he knew the boy would go up on that mountain and he intentionally ignored him to try to get him to give up. But one scenario by all rights should end with him behind bars and the other would end with him giving a press conference where he holds back tears on TV.
Humā¦ actually if people think Touya was deliberately using his fire Quirk, then they think Touya was committing a crime as Quirk use is forbidden if you arenāt a Hero. Enji would still not go to jail as the blame would fall on Touya even if he is a minor, but society would likely give him hell for being related to Touya.
On the other side the neglect that caused Touya to set himself on fire by accident wasnāt even remotely considered a crime in Japan at the time and still wasnāt at the end of BNHA and Horikoshi clearly didnāt try to introduce more modern laws in BNHA so Enji would still not be blamed.
I like to think Touya wouldnāt be blamed either as he wasnāt using his Quirk on purposeā¦ though this is up to the policeās decision. In āTeam-up missionsā this was proved not to matter, at least legally. People just couldnāt use their Quirk, not even if their Quirk escaped their control. On the other side we know from āVigilantesā that the police might still decide not to press charges so it is really up to them if to hold Touya accountable.
Long story short, while in my country we would hold Enji responsible of child abuse and neglect that caused his son to die which would be a rather serious crime here, in BNHA they can easily shrug off all he did as it didnāt constitute a crime and Enji was just a grieving father who made mistakes in good faith.
Thanks for your ask (also sorry if I phrased this poorly but it's really late and I'm worn out so I hope I didn't make any big mistake)!
Been a while since I talked about something BNHA related but this just came to mind recently.
How come Izuku never thought to use weapons if his quirk was so dangerous to use? You would think if he couldnāt use his quirk all that often at the start, he would find alternatives to fight instead of just standing on the side and giving insight.
And when you look at Homura when she became a Magical Girl, she learned that she canāt just rely on her time power to get her out of situations. So she made and obtained weapons to make up for it. She made bombs, she got guns, she was more than a one trick pony.
Technically only Horikoshi know the answer to your question as canon never gave us an answer...
...but likely it was because BNHA is so driven by its author's intentions the characters ends up not what it would be logic for them to do but what Horikoshi needs them to do.
Mind you, all the characters in a story do what their author wants them to do but the difference is that normally their author tries to make their moves look logical and their own decision.
As you mentioned when Homura learnt she couldn't rely on her time power she tried other solutions and this is logic and build up on her characterization. It seems a thing she could have chosen to do, one htat made sense for her to do.
On the other side Horikoshi needs Midoriya tohave a Quirk and use it because the editor said so.
Originally Midoriya wasn't meant to get a shiny new Quirk, but then Horikoshi was asked to give him one and so the plot ended up revolving on Midoriya having to learn to use such Quirk, the Quirk hurting him creating drama that then gets undone by Recovery Girl who fixes him back to zero so that Horikoshi can use him for a new adventure the following day instead than have to wait a month for Midoriya to recover.
So Midoriya doesn't think he could also use a capture cloth like Aizawa or something like that until he doesn't get used to his Quirk because he just has to use that Quirk for the plot to work.
Using his Quirk is his only way to be a Hero, the story is clear about this. Until it decides to take it from him and give him a suit, that's it.
At least those are my two cents about it.
And yes, I'm being bitter but the whole 'you can be a Hero only if you have a Quirk' thing is ridicule when in the cast we have people like Hagakure who can only turn invisible but somehow manages to get a better result than Midoriya in the qQuirk apprehension test because Midoriya needed to end last DESPITE using OFA once and therefore getting an amazing result... never mentioning he could have used it also in the last exercise since then the test would end so as to get a better result but nope. We couldn't risk him not ending up in the last place...
Sorry for the bitterness and thank you for your ask!
Did... Was it really just a too many cooks ruin the broth situation? Was hori told to give izu a quirk? (Given some blurbs in smash comics, I can see the authorship was really horse by committee)
In an interview he said something along the line of that having been his first plan, but that he was told instead that giving him a Quirk would have worked better.
I wouldn't say the problem was there were too many cooks, because a mangaka should actually be capable to fulfil the editor's requests, especially at the start, when creating the story.
A manga is written in order to sell a product that will please the readers, whcih is why when during the training camp readers weren't happy with another Villain attack, Horikoshi had to cut it short.
The editor is the middle man between the author and the reader, he should help the author find a plot that will please the readers and won't cause troubles to the publisher.
Horikoshi trusted a lot his first editor and was really unhappy when the man had to leave him to follow another mangaka.
We know Toriyama himself had to humor his editor, even when he was writing the cyborg sage in Dragonball, in short when he was already a very successful mangaka.
The ability of a mangaka is in managing to make the editor and the readers happy while still writing a story that pleases him as well.
After all he is selling his story to those people, he is writing it for them, they wouldn't buy it if they don't like it.
Personally I just think Horikoshi isn't a strong writer, that he is a much better artist than a writer. I think he knows this too, which is why he wanted to only draw his next story and not to write it and that Shueisha should have just let him do so instead than tell him he'll also have to write it.
Horikoshi's ideas are interesting, mind you, but he could have benefitted from writing them with a better writer than he is.
At least these are my two cents over it, others can disagree, of course.
Saw your answer post about Touya amd Natsuo's relationship amd honestly touya's relationship with all of his family members are very interesting imo. Not only touya and natsuo but Touya and FuyumI, Touya and Rei. The narrative mostly focuses on Touya and Enji, evem though i love their relationship it would be more interesting if Hori didnt reduce Dabi to just some "culmination of Endeavor's sins" (yikes). Dabi is his own character, endeavor should repent from his own crimes and dabi his own. Well wtvr, Sobabrothers relationship is absoulotely my favorite, even though they arguably deserved more screen time in the todoroki family plotline, the potential was insane. I was NOT expecting Dabi to apologize to Shoto internally let me tell you, this moment amd another subtle moment during dabi vs shoto fight when dabi views amd decalres himself as a part of the league /villains, twice, thrice "The limitations of superhuman society thats us (referring to him and the LOV) , also the moment with toga and him, made me realize I was reading dabi's character wrong. There are a lot of sub texts and naunce to him.
But what I am leading into with all this?
There are just some things I noticed with how hori writes touya.
Thing is, Dabi is the villain who has the least amount inner monolouges among all the villains, its near zero unlike tomura's, toga's, twice's, hell even compress's and spinner's.
He is the only villain, hell not even villain, only CHARACTER, Whose backstory is mostly told by other people. The first half of his backstory was told by his parents, Rei and Enji (who I totally mind you, was NOT being biased š¤), 2nd part of his backstory is told by Ujiko, yes UJIKO OF ALL POEPLE ššš. There were some snippets of touya himself in both halves but they were so subtle it didn't really gave us any insight to touya's feelings.
Now idk what Hori's intention was. Pre reveal I can understand why he didn't let us into touya's mind. But post reavel? during his backstory? it doesnt make sense.
I am a firm believer that like shoto, Touya should have narrated his own backstory. There alot of scenes implied by touya, we missed (like how touya always cried and crawled to natsuo questioning his existence, more scenes with touya's guilt of attacking infant shoto and his mom etcetc) bcuz his backstory was told from enji's and others prespective, and enji 100% did not see touya's anguish. It would also give us some insight on how touya feels about his mom, sister, natsuo and vice versa. Hence, more exploration of their relationship.
Its kind of funny how the fandom likes to give touya less sympathy than tenko and himiko bcuz he had "more agency", when the author himself doesn't give him that agency, even his ending was grotessuque unlike the other main villains imo
Jokes aside, i wonder why touya wasnt allowed his narrative? Its like hori wamted him to be a complex, naunced character but also wamted the majority of the audience to see him in a certain way which he may not be if we were allowed in his mind
> Saw your answer post about Touya amd Natsuo's relationship
I think youāre referring to this post?
>amd honestly touya's relationship with all of his family members are very interesting imo. Not only touya and natsuo but Touya and FuyumI, Touya and Rei.
Yes, I also think so. I do love the Todorokis and their relations and I really wish the story had taken more time to explore them.
>The narrative mostly focuses on Touya and Enji, evem though i love their relationship it would be more interesting if Hori didnt reduce Dabi to just some "culmination of Endeavor's sins" (yikes).
Yeah, it was a poor sentence that objectified Touya and that sadly fits with how Villains are viewed through the story. Touya is offered little sympathy for what he went though (same as Shouto to be honest) and the story might even see claiming he became Dabi due to Endeavorās sins as a way to āexpress sympathyā as undoubtedly many of what Enji did pushed Touya toward that path.
>Dabi is his own character, endeavor should repent from his own crimes and dabi his own.
What I dislike about the story is that it wait till the end to give Touya reasons to regret what he did and even then they stood on weak premises. But whatever, I guess this is a discussion for another meta.
>Well wtvr, Sobabrothers relationship is absoulotely my favorite, even though they arguably deserved more screen time in the todoroki family plotline, the potential was insane. I was NOT expecting Dabi to apologize to Shoto internally let me tell you, this moment amd another subtle moment during dabi vs shoto fight when dabi views amd decalres himself as a part of the league /villains, twice, thrice "The limitations of superhuman society thats us (referring to him and the LOV) , also the moment with toga and him, made me realize I was reading dabi's character wrong. There are a lot of sub texts and naunce to him.
Yeah, the relationship between the Soba brothers has so much potential, Iām not sure why it wasnāt used to the fullest.
> But what I am leading into with all this? There are just some things I noticed with how hori writes touya. Thing is, Dabi is the villain who has the least amount inner monolouges among all the villains, its near zero unlike tomura's, toga's, twice's, hell even compress's and spinner's.
Well, part of this is due to how Horikoshi wanted him to stay mysterious. Giving him inner monologues reveal how he feels and break the mystery hence he gets very few.
>He is the only villain, hell not even villain, only CHARACTER, Whose backstory is mostly told by other people. The first half of his backstory was told by his parents, Rei and Enji (who I totally mind you, was NOT being biased š¤), 2nd part of his backstory is told by Ujiko, yes UJIKO OF ALL POEPLE ššš. There were some snippets of touya himself in both halves but they were so subtle it didn't really gave us any insight to touya's feelings.
Actually Iāll say his story is narrated by a third person narrator, Horikoshi, with few comments in between from his family, Ujiko and, lastly, him. Itās a quite common technique but it is clear that we arenāt seeing the story from Enji and Reiās perspective only or from Ujikoās only.
In chap 301 the second flashback is between Fuyumi and Touya with none of his parents present, just Fuyumi, later we see a flashback of Touya training alone after Shouto had birth, weāve the flashback of the siblings asking Touya to play, the end of it focusing very much on how Touya looks Shouto and Enji leaving, weāve the flashback of Touya talking with Natsuo, again weāve a flashback of Touya training alone and another of him alone at Sekoto Peak when he burns.
As you can see there is plenty of flashbacks without his parents and flashbacks in which not even his siblings are present.
The narration is objective and third person, it is not subjective from Rei and Enjiās point of view and this is even more true in the flashback in chap 350 where Garaki is not present through the entirety of it.
>Now idk what Hori's intention was. Pre reveal I can understand why he didn't let us into touya's mind. But post reavel? during his backstory? it doesnt make sense.
We do see into Touyaās mind in the endā¦ itās just Horikoshi wasnāt that interested into exploring it much. At the end of the day his belief was that Touya should have just put up with all that had happened to him so why digging more into his misery or into his human side? Why making Enji and society look even worse when he is trying to absolve them instead?
>I am a firm believer that like shoto, Touya should have narrated his own backstory. There alot of scenes implied by touya, we missed (like how touya always cried and crawled to natsuo questioning his existence, more scenes with touya's guilt of attacking infant shoto and his mom etcetc) bcuz his backstory was told from enji's and others prespective, and enji 100% did not see touya's anguish. It would also give us some insight on how touya feels about his mom, sister, natsuo and vice versa. Hence, more exploration of their relationship.
The difference between Touya and Shouto is that Shouto is a main character, while Touya is an antagonist. Plus by making the flashback about the whole of the Todoroki family instead than just about Touya, Horikoshi saves time.
We are shown Touya crying to Natsuo, though Horikoshi used that scene also to show that Natsuo wasnāt willing anymore to listen to Touya anymore, we also saw him feeling guilty attacking baby Shouto and heard him expressing regret for what he told to Rei and the others, hinting he loved them. Itās just itās all very essential instead than deeply explored but again, in Horikoshiās books Touya is a minor character compared to Shouto who, credits when is due, also received little exploration the first time his backstory was presented.
BNHA is a shounen and Horikoshi prefers to focus on battles than on the charactersā inner world. Sadly itās a choice he can make.
>Its kind of funny how the fandom likes to give touya less sympathy than tenko and himiko bcuz he had "more agency", when the author himself doesn't give him that agency, even his ending was grotessuque unlike the other main villains imo
I think it really depends to who you ask in the fandom. With a fandom as large as the one of BNHA you can find people who hate Touya and believe Shouto should have just mercilessly murdered him and people who offer him a lot of sympathy. It really depends.
(Said so I disliked his ending, the whole tube thing was in extremely poor taste)
>Jokes aside, i wonder why touya wasnt allowed his narrative? Its like hori wamted him to be a complex, naunced character but also wamted the majority of the audience to see him in a certain way which he may not be if we were allowed in his mind
Undoubtedly Horikoshi has his own agenda to pursue, but a good writer can pursue it even allowing you to get into the mind of a character because HE IS THE ONE WHO CREATED SAID CHARACTER. Said so, I think Horikoshi let us get into Touyaās mind, but only that much that he deemed necessary for his plot to work and nothing more. After all at the end of the story the moral is that the Villains should have just put up with everything and not rebelled, so of course he couldnāt show us anything that clashed with this view.
Itās a common problem with all the characters, but this is the agenda Horikoshi is pushing forward so I guess it couldnāt be helped.
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Hello! Hope you are doing well, I read your posts and answers daily about Bnha and i trust ur analysis on the todorokis. I apologize in advance bcuz this is going to be a long ask and English is not my first language so there could be some structatal mistake but i hope I will be able to articulate my question š
I realized from a reread of the series that there some crucial points in Touya's life where if an acceptable intervention happened things could have been different, I am not saying he will grow a fully healthy well adjusted adult but there would at least be no Dabi. Three main points that come to my mind:
If Enji and Rei actually sat touya down after he tried to attack shoto and explained things to him and actually reassured no matter what he becomes enjI will always look at him,spend time with him, support him (yes this scenario requires enjI and to an extent rei to be actual SUPPORTIVE parents, shocking and unrealistic I know, but hey its a what if š)
If Enji actually went to Sekoto Peak like touya asked him to
After Touya comes back home from coma in facility, he doesnt see enji beaiting shoto on the ground (He might walk into something else, but not anything that cements his interpretation of being a failure or that his life didnt matter at all)
I have more what ifs in mind like, what if touya had the same Rei as a mother shoto had. Or what if touya had his own Izuku like shoto did. Or what if touya never found out he was born from a quirk marriage (I dont think this one changes much but the existential crisis would be less imo),what if touya never had weakness to his quirk etc etc.
These are just some what ifs and canon divergence I thought of for touya,scenarios that prevents the creation of Dabi. There could be more i am missing, I would be more than happy if you fill those up.
Which is why what, I am curious about first, apart from those what ifs i thought of, is there any other scenarios in touya's life where proper intervention could prevent the outcome of Dabi? what are those scenarios? and what are the proper intervention needed in those scenarios?
What i want to know in each scenarios (the ones I thought of and the other I might have missed) what kind of person would touya grow up to be as an adult? What would be the state of the todoroki family in each scenario?
Donāt worry, English is not my first language either!
>I realized from a reread of the series that there some crucial points in Touya's life where if an acceptable intervention happened things could have been different, I am not saying he will grow a fully healthy well adjusted adult but there would at least be no Dabi.
Yes, there were many moments in which Touyaās life could have taken a different turn, you mentioned the three more glaring ones but it could have happened basically at any time in his life had his parents decided to try to help him differently instead than just trying o avoid the issue.
>Or what if touya never found out he was born from a quirk marriage (I dont think this one changes much but the existential crisis would be less imo),
Yeah, I also think this would have changed little, as while it doesnāt help, even if he hadnāt know he would have still had to deal with Enji clearly pushing for a child who could inherit his mantle as Hero and with society pushing forward the idea that child should be Touya and that, if he werenāt, he was flawled.
>These are just some what ifs and canon divergence I thought of for touya,scenarios that prevents the creation of Dabi. There could be more i am missing, I would be more than happy if you fill those up.
There are just too many for me to fill this up, but they all circle around one common point, Touya would find someone to understand, support and help him at any point in his life, be it by helping him find a safe way to become a Hero or by helping him to find another way to self-realize himself.
What Touya was truly lacking was feeling love and accepted. He insists he wanted to make his father proudĀ he gave birth to him, that he feel other perceive him as a failure, that others do not understand him.
I fear youāre giving me a too tall order asking me to provide you all the scenarios youāre missing and the details needed to go in them as this would be the material for plenty of fanfics and Iām already struggling to end my own.
AO3 will provide you with many wonderful fics dealing with this in details as each scenario requires different interventions.
Iāve bookmarked some as well so if you want you might consider going through my bookmarks too. Sorry if I canāt help you more but thereās really too much to say that it would last for more than just my lifetime and thank you for your ask!
I've always figured that the reason Touya couldn't put himself out was because he was too hysterical at the time to truly focusāit's probably also why he took so long to throw himself into the river to extinguish his flames.
The canon answer is that he didn't know how to stop his fire as all his father taught him was to turn up the heat.
As I've already discussed in details in this meta this doesn't really make sense so since I've spent already so many words over it, I'm not going to tackle this again, sorry about it.
I wouldn't say it took him long to throw himself in the river as it seems he actually runs straight to it which shouldn't have been a easy feat since the forest was burning along with him at over 2000Ā°C whcih is enough to cremate a person, he was in terrible pain and his body was breaking down to the point his jaw detatched itself.
