Aves

hiya! i have so many messy thoughts about this event so thank you for enabling me with your ask hehehe

the hidden dialogue scenes this event have been rattling around in my brain, and that line in particular is so !!!!

this concern of kaveh's has also been mentioned in the summer event last year, where kaveh lists the 'only' people who knows he and alhaitham live together

and i think it's so !!! that we also learn in the nod-krai archon quest that ofc another person not in kaveh's list (dori) knows they live together

it's interesting that this worry of kaveh's isn't mentioned in dialogue in this main event but only when they buy food together, as in when we get a splice of their domestic life at home :')

also i'm really loving the implication that besides people finding out that he can't afford to live on his own, kaveh's life is otherwise worry free - so he really has no issue living with alhaitham (as we all know lmaooo), as compared to a parade of providence where he was competing with the goal to move out

from this, along with all the mentions of kaveh explicitly referring to their shared house as 'home', it's pretty inferable that kaveh's plans have changed completely, and that he will NOT be moving out

will never be over it, where alhaitham says that sometimes being correct doesn't mean anything, and the prompt relates this back to the line in ancient script alhaitham wrote to kaveh, about the fate of the idealist being denying themselves happiness in securing it for others

alhaitham's warning years ago, the reason for his and kaveh's separation, that kaveh would only hurt himself with his form of altruism proved correct, but that doesn't matter, it means nothing because alhaitham lost kaveh

it isn't about whether they're right or wrong in their philosophies, because alhaitham knows firsthand about the futility of being correct when it cost them both dearly

like how Kaveh lists and reports his findings to Alhaitham specifically when they’re clearly in a group together. (“there’s the cat!” *points at it while looking at alhaitham* before alhaitham guides them sort of) (“it speaks!” To alhaitham again, whether or not he’s reading book and not listening at all)

it’s kind of like Kaveh yapping to him knowing he’d listen no matter anything. And it goes to showcase this possibility Kaveh does it without thinking and if he was aware that Alhaitham isn’t at all listening, he would’ve stopped. The fact that he’s continuing to report small little things to Alhaitham specifically despite him holding up a book shows that he IS listening to him no matter what Alhaitham is doing.

He even goes like “huh.. where even was I?” right after defending his family 🖐️ 😔 (like “it’s your turn to apologize since u made Kaveh apologize to u.”) I think it may go to show that he IS in fact listening, that his eyes and ears are everywhere but his damn book (at the moment, probably)

goshhh I love them sm there’s so much to uncover because these two DOES NOT speak without having double or tripple meanings behind them

but I’m curious as to what you think :>>

hiya!! thank you so much for your ask! i agree completely, there's so much to unpack with this event, it can be overwhelming!

ahhh i'm loving haikaveh having to work together again, just like in cyno's second story quest which showed a resolution of their thesis (which i talk about here and here), so i'm living for the reference to them as students, with kaveh's line about it 'all coming back' to him regarding alhaitham's work ethic

i've talked about what this means for alhaitham a little bit here but i'll probably make a post specifically for the moment at some point, but i really love this detail that, after alhaitham switches gears and steps up to help kaveh and mehrak, kaveh's mood improves, where he says 'good teamwork'!

and thank youuu for pointing out that lil detail of kaveh pointing at the cat and looking to alhaitham, it's just such an endearing moment where kaveh is caught completely off guard, as they were just talking about the cat, and turns to alhaitham so earnestly when mehrak goes after thoth

and later on when thoth turns up again, after it's established that alhaitham is reading

kaveh does the same thing, glancing in alhaitham's direction, like his first instinct is to appeal to alhaitham??

and in the next shot, after kaveh has been chastised, alhaitham has stopped reading

so, like you say, this detail of alhaitham always paying attention to kaveh is so !!?!?! it really reminds me of cyno's second story quest, where it's shown that alhaitham is otherwise reading only when kaveh isn't addressing him (which is another instance where we get to see kaveh yapping to him about anything and everything, and ofc he's so interested in what kaveh has to say!)

I am very appreciative of the parallels of kaveh and alhaitham’s ‘verbal sparring’ in this quest and their bickering during their first interaction in the archon quest

The first thing kaveh says to Alhaitham is accusing him of extorting his authority to gain access to a book – by saying ‘again’, like he holds such a low view of alhaitham’s character, that ofc this is a common occurrence for him

But now when Alhaitham twists kaveh’s goading and implies that kaveh accused him of ‘abusing’ his authority to get a book, kaveh rebukes this!! Because he was joking and he wouldn’t go that far! But he also knows that Alhaitham is just teasing him because he’s teasing Alhaitham since they ENJOY it!! Im so SICK of them but so happy they figured it out

Let me explain.

A descriptive statement is a statement about how the world is, factually, while a normative statement says something about how the world should be, or seeks to influence or construct it in some other way through the use of language. This is why legal statutes and imperatives are also considered normative statements.

The epiphany hit me when I was reading this line from Kaveh's character stories:

This is true of a normative statement, but not of a descriptive one. If a descriptive statement is inconsistent with reality, then it is untrue, and you remedy the problem by changing the statement. If, on the other hand, a normative statement is inconsistent with reality, it is because it has failed in its attempt to shape it, and you remedy the problem by changing reality.

All of Kaveh's and Alhaitham's most core disagreements at some level boil down to this; Kaveh thinks about what the world should and could be like, while Alhaitham is more concerned with accurately understanding it. Kaveh works himself to the bone to shape the world after those normative ideals, while Alhaitham is content to refine his own grasp on its inner workings. They are both right, because the fact that Alhaitham's descriptive analysis of reality is morally reprehensible doesn't make it any less true, and the fact that Kaveh's normative ideals are not reflective of reality doesn't make them any less valuable.

When Nahida says that Kaveh is the person who understands best what it means for Sumeru to be a Nation of Wisdom, I believe this is what she's talking about; for there to be a Nation of Wisdom, it's not enough for one brilliant researcher to take home there. Their wisdom will die with them. But if you cultivate an interpersonal endeavor for knowledge, you will get a nation of truthseekers, and the wisdom that is accumulated will transcend the lifespans of the individual humans that contributed to its discovery. The heartbreaking part is that this very understanding is what drives Kaveh to overexert himself to prove the merits of his ideas to the rest of the world, because he's hopelessly trying to cultivate intersubjective understanding in a nation where very few have such an honest desire to cultivate wisdom, preferring to have knowledge fed to them through the Akasha just to graduate and move up in the social hierarchy.

In the desert, layla who previously had issues with dealing with anxieties, received dubious advice from kaveh about equating worries to that of a sickness for that which is no cure, therefore you have to let its run its course

Layla reveals that this advice isn’t suitable for her, since the cause for her anxiety was solely because she didn’t have a clear goal for herself. She states that therefore, if this advice is something kaveh adheres to, then this is ultimately worse for him, as kaveh claims to have a set goal - as in, he wants to win the interdarshan chanpionship.

She notes that kaveh seems conflicted, and that this could stem from some inner sadness which he suppresses with a façade of happiness.

This points to kaveh’s internal conflict being between that of his guilt complex brought about by his perceived involvement in his father’s passing, and his genuine desire to help others at the cost of himself. Kaveh cannot balance the two in ways that will allow him to prioritise his own needs and desires

Kaveh’s internal conflict is pointed out later on in the same quest by Faruzan, who highlights kaveh’s title as a genius being incongruous with his problem solving abilities after kaveh passes out in the desert due to giving his food and water to the disturbed foxes and going out of his way to lead them to safety, putting himself at risk and jeopardising his place in the competition

However, Kaveh states that his title of a genius has nothing to do with this situation, and although he admits it wasn’t the most practical solution, it was dually his conscience that ultimately caused him to act and perceivably the guilt that would come from not attempting to help

After the second round comes to a close and faruzan inadvertently informs alhaitham of kaveh’s “tribulations”, the player gets to hear alhaitham’s reactions to kaveh’s decision through kaveh, as kaveh and alhaitham have discussed the events in the desert offscreen

Paimon points out that this is definitely ‘something’ alhaitham would say due to the blunt manner of speaking and the dryness of his words - this contextualises how kaveh receives them, as personal goading

When looking past this and focussing on alhaitham’s actual words, the real meaning can be found, and it is even a point in this scene that paimon offers the exact same comments, drawing direct parallels between her and alhaitham’s words, and therefore establishing the same concerns

Alhaitham points out kaveh’s unreliable problem solving abilities being incongruous with his title as a senior - directly paralleling faruzan’s comments in which she highlighted how kaveh’s decision making abilities were at odds with his title as a genius

As well as this, alhaitham alludes to kaveh’s guilt complex being the reason why he exerts himself for others at his own expense - which is a point that the traveller and paimon directly follow up on

Kaveh responds to their questioning amicably despite the sensitive nature of the conversation, just as he did when faruzan pointed out kaveh’s problematical decision making, and this is because of their apparent concern rather than actively seeking offence, with paimon protesting when kaveh asks: “don’t tell me you think i have serious personality flaws, too?” With the ‘too’ clearly referencing alhaitham and the conversation the two had prior to the traveller and paimon turning up

Kaveh can understand the concern in others’ words when they question his problem solving skills and the sense of his inner conflict stemming from guilt, however, when alhaitham makes the same comments, kaveh sees this as a form on animosity and personal critique

Because of alhaitham’s manner of communication and kaveh’s apparent distrust of alhaitham, the two cannot reach a mutual understanding - despite alhaitham expressing the same concerns as three separate characters within this quest

It is telling then that when kaveh gleans an otherwise unseen meaning in alhaitham’s words is when alhaitham changes his method of communication and directly, and intimately, addresses kaveh by using a script that only the two are privy to

Kaveh still doesn’t wholly understand alhaitham’s meaning, but the switch up in communication method is enough for kaveh to question alhaitham’s sincerity and not attribute it to alhaitham mocking him

Kaveh continues questioning the cause for this throughout the remainder of the event, being seen to question why alhaitham left the notes for him and whether if it was a coincidence or not. He concludes that it wasn’t a coincidence and then states “then…”, inferably questioning why alhaitham left the notes for him and what the meaning of his words were, in a script only kaveh would understand. Additionally, kaveh mentions wanting to ask alhaitham what the meaning of his notes were when at dinner after the closing of the interdarshan championship, as the uncertain meaning of his words has seemingly left a profound effect on him

Alhaitham changing his manner of communication, which kaveh usually perceives as negative, causes kaveh to question alhaitham’s sincerity, and therefore causes doubt in whether alhaitham is patronising him or not. This in turn can cast obscurity over kaveh’s assertion that alhaitham holds “disdain” for him due to Alhaitham’s expression of concern which kaveh cannot perceive due to the abrasiveness of his words. Alhaitham conveying his concern in a roundabout way only allows for kaveh to misinterpret him, which kaveh perceives as “disdain”.

A parade of providence establishes the cause for the rift in alhaitham and kaveh’s relationship mainly to be perpetual misunderstanding in communication, and sets out to propose a solution being that a change of communication.

By using a language that only the two of them know shows that for kaveh to fully understand his meaning, alhaitham must meet kaveh on his own terms when it comes to communication - the two must be on equal and frank level. this could allow a potential rebuilding of intimacy the two once shared when initially learning the language, and thus overcome the idea of “mutual disdain” which kaveh asserts due to his fundamental misunderstanding of alhaitham which alhaitham seems to reinforce with his typical language

(Update: The essay this is taken from is now uploaded! It can be accessed here and here as as a pdf <3)

Max Stirner's anarchist egoism is speculated to be the basis of Alhaitham's personal egoism, therefore I will be drawing upon Stirner's 'The Unique and Its Property' for this analysis.

Property and power are key principles within this philosophy. The egoist recognises himself as an individual, separate from the general collective of “humanity”, in which concepts such as freedom and property are governed to and over the people, for then the individual is not considered as such, rather they are a part of “humanity”, rather than a whole individual (Stirner, 170). This thinking is demonstrated within Alhaitham’s Story Quest, where he dismantles Siraj’s Hivemind by targeting individuals that compromised the Hive and reminding them of their own beliefs and preferences – the individual in themselves is a whole, and is not a “part” of a system (Stirner, 170).

In this, the egoist governs himself by what he owns and what he wants to own: “ownness is my whole essence and existence, it is myself. I am free from what I am rid of, owner of what I have in my power, what I control. I am at all times and under every circumstance my own”(Stirner, 106). This relates to the concept of freedom, which, for an egoist exists according to having the power to be free of something, for example, being freed of hunger, thirst, or societal expectations (Stirner, 105). This is reflected within Alhaitham’s description: “He lives free – free from the searching eyes of ordinary people,” but also extends to the power to own.

(This is an excerpt taken from my Haikaveh essay! If you're interested you can check it out here or as a pdf <3)

When discussing Kaveh’s mother, Faranak, with her old teacher Zaha Hadi in order to discover the password that will unlock Faranak’s journal, “companionship” is given as the password over “understanding”. This is due to Faranak placing more value in the companionship of Kaveh’s father over him understanding her artistry, as despite his lack of understanding, he stayed at her side regardless in order to “support” her. Zaha Hadi states that Kaveh’s father’s support was likely the reason that Faranak chose him over her “many admirers”, which Kaveh then equates to “companionship”:

A romantic connotation is created by the association of “companionship” with the relationship between Kaveh’s mother and father. Although companionship is also assigned to a platonic connection, pictured in Faranak’s journal of the gathering consisting of Tighnari’s parents, Alhaitham’s parents, and Cyno’s adoptive father. Her advice to Kaveh of pursuing companionship, too, falls in the platonic category, as she states for him to: “seek a friend” in order to gain support. Companionship, then, becomes dually used for romantic and platonic connections.

It is interesting then, that Faranak herself can be used as an allusion to Kaveh. This is emanated in how the two share many similarities, not only in physical attributes, their studying in Kshahrewar, and their shared profession as an architect, but also in their mannerisms and their method of working.

Just as Faranak keeps a diary, Kaveh writes in an ‘Old Sketchbook’. Faranak is described as a “perfectionist” who insisted on redesigning drafts, just as Kaveh designs six drafts for a singular client.

She is also described to have a “sensitive and vulnerable heart”, just as Kaveh is described to be “sensitive” due to his empathetic nature.

Just like Kaveh, she is said to have gotten into a “heated argument” with a friend, presumably over conflicting viewpoints on art. As an artist, her woes are that of Kaveh’s, stemming from being misunderstood by others.

As she is directly compared with Kaveh and as their similarities are listed, it can be inferred that the two are to be paralleled due to their resemblance. It is relevant then to look to her view of her relationship with Kaveh’s father as it provides a perspective of an ideal companion for a struggling artist:

This is interesting in regard to the relationship presented here to that which exists between Kaveh and Alhaitham.

Kaveh and Alhaitham have a mutually deep understanding of each other, which creates a sense of intimacy that they share with no other character. Additionally, Kaveh has the similar struggle of being eclipsed by a “dream” in his heart, as in, his ideals conflicting with his own self-interest. Kaveh’s father, rather than understanding Kaveh's mother's ideals in relation to himself, seeks to support her, “listen[ing] to her joys and share[ing] in her sorrows”. This is a similar statement to Alhaitham’s “listen[ing] intently” to Kaveh’s troubles when meeting in a tavern, calling to question Kaveh’s pursuit of his ideals: “How has realising your ideals gone for you?”

(This is a reworked excerpt taken from my Haikaveh essay! If you're interested you can check it out here or as a pdf <3)

Family is an important theme, particularly in regard to Kaveh, as the reason for his guilt is based upon his belief that he destroyed his own family. For Kaveh, family – home – is a place in which “words [are] not necessary” since companionship is valued above all:

Family is also important for Alhaitham, however, as there is a particular focus on the relationship between him and his late grandmother within his character stories, as her influence over him incentivised him to pursue the “peaceful” way of life he seeks to maintain:

After the death of his grandmother, Alhaitham lived alone and attended the Akademiya, just as Kaveh did as his mother left for Fontaine after his enrolment. Kaveh’s loss of family leads directly into him meeting Alhaitham. This establishes a direct correlation between Alhaitham and family, indicating that Alhaitham filled a role recently lacking in Kaveh’s life. This is relevant to Alhaitham, as he had enrolled in the Akademiya after the passing of his grandmother, meaning that, similar to Kaveh, he, too, had no family.

The idea of found family, as in, a tightly knit support network built with mutual sentiment between unrelated people, is introduced in Sumeru as the joint-thesis. Academic family is highly valued amongst scholars and comes into fruition through the working together on projects. This can be observed within the dynamic between Tighnari, Cyno, and Collei, as during the Windblume event, they describe themselves as a family formed outside of academia, even assigning themselves titles akin to a real biological family.

Alhaitham and Kaveh then established this found family in each other upon working together on a joint thesis, although additional scholars initially worked with them before dropping out. Their argument culminated in Kaveh ripping up their thesis, which effectively ended their friendship, and familial bond, made mutual by Alhaitham removing his name from the project. Kaveh, however,  is described to have pieced the thesis cover back together with “deep regret”, and placed it in his old sketchbook.

In this, Kaveh regrets the loss of his connection with Alhaitham, and the family that their joint thesis established. Although he has pieced together the thesis cover, their family remains severed as reconciliation is perceived as implausible due to their differences:

Most notably, it is the building which serves as Alhaitham’s house which is crucial to the motif of home. Due to their combined efforts in their joint thesis, the Akademiya gifted the two a research centre, as the results of their thesis had significant impact despite not being completed. When Alhaitham took up the property after graduation, he heard through a third-party, sent by Kaveh, that Kaveh was relinquishing rights of the property due to him not being in need of a house. It was after this that Alhaitham invested in the property, converting it into a house, where he took up residence, and then invited Kaveh to live with him, after the two met in the tavern. Although it is understood to be Alhaitham’s property, since Kaveh relinquished his right to it, Alhaitham considers Kaveh to be his “roommate” rather than a tenant, despite Kaveh paying rent.

Kaveh and Alhaitham split the chores according to Alhaitham’s Character Story, although they mostly fall to Kaveh; they both make attempts to decorate the house; presumably they eat dinner together, according to Alhaitham’s Story Quest where he excuses himself in order to have dinner, only to talk to Kaveh; the two can be seen to share a study; when ordering out, Kaveh orders extra for Alhaitham – a common enough occurrence for Alhaitham to be confident in relying on this. Rather than “cold” and “lonely” this conjures the image of warmth and familiarity. In this, it can be inferred that the two have created a home together.

Referring back to Kaveh’s understanding of “home”, as in a place in which words are not necessary, and linking it to the idea of companionship being more important than understanding introduced in his hangout. The latter idea consists of supporting a person, regardless of the ability to empathise with and relate to their particular struggles, should be valued over attempting to be wholly understood by people who are not willing to listen.

In this, Alhaitham is offered as a companion to Kaveh, where he cannot empathise with Kaveh’s artistic and idealistic struggles, but he is willing to listen to him, rather than offering words which cannot solve Kaveh’s particular problems.

By Kaveh’s understanding of “home” as a place in which people are at ease with each other and support another regardless, this can be seen within his relationship with Alhaitham. As Kaveh has pieced together their ripped up thesis cover with “deep regret” of what it symbolises, the severance of his and Alhaitham’s relationship, Alhaitham inviting Kaveh to live with him serves as mirroring actions of reconciliation.

(This is a reworked excerpt taken from my Haikaveh essay! If you're interested you can check it out here or as a pdf <3)

The only time Alhaitham and Kaveh's argument is mentioned in-game dialogue is during Kaveh’s Hangout. Due to Kaveh’s reluctance to discuss it with the Traveler at risk of tarnishing his junior's reputation, Alhaitham asserts that the argument is nothing to be embarrassed about, and that their differences in personality resulted in them being unable to work together. This rendition of the argument, too, is devoid of the detail which Kaveh provides in his character stories.

Due to this, Alhaitham’s perspective of the argument has been omitted to the player, and thus Kaveh’s perspective is the only fully developed account provided. In this, Kaveh’s perspective, and his interpretation, of the argument can be easily sided with as the player. In this case, it is clear how Kaveh was hurt by Alhaitham’s words, but not so clear that Alhaitham was, in turn, hurt by Kaveh. Additionally, the intention in Alhaitham’s words is omitted, and therefore is seen purely as weaponizing Kaveh’s guilt.

Since Alhaitham’s perspective of the argument has been omitted, what is included in his Character Stories in reference to his thoughts on the consequences of collectivism will be used here in order to establish the intentions behind the weaponisation of Kaveh’s guilt.

Alhaitham’s Character Stories pre-date Kaveh’s, but were written to establish his perspective of individualism in reference to those with natural talent and those without. These discussions are inextricably tied with Kaveh’s Character Stories and serve as Alhaitham’s explanation for the root issue of their argument.

Whilst Alhaitham’s Character Stories retain the positives of individualism, as in living apart from a general majority, they particularly highlight the detriment of those with talent forsaking themselves to “blend in,” and compromise their own development for the sake of the majority: “to leave the right of judgment in others' hands is equal to denying oneself”.

According to Alhaitham, letting one’s talents be dictated and judged by society can only serve as detriment to oneself – this is a direct reference to Kaveh, paralleling his Character Story in which he fears separation from the majority.

In this sense, Alhaitham’s usage of Kaveh’s “inescapable” guilt as the reason for his altruism serves as the grounding for Kaveh’s escapism, so as for Kaveh to reflect on the blame he places on himself and for him to alter his methods of self-sacrifice for the sake of others. This would then allow Kaveh to prioritise himself, in order to fully realise himself, since, as of now, Alhaitham considers the altruist as self-denying (which is discussed further here).

The concern in Alhaitham’s words can be pinpointed in the potential consequences of Kaveh exerting himself for others: “Kaveh's impractical idealism… would come to be a burden on his existence someday”. However, due to the stated “explosive” magnitude of the argument and his phrasing, this intention is missed by Kaveh, and is instead interpreted as a malicious critique of Kaveh’s character.

The core reason for the rift in Alhaitham and Kaveh’s relationship is not their opposing viewpoints, as actually, these conflicting perspectives are the cause for the solidification of their friendship, as seen in Kaveh’s Old Sketchbook.

Rather, it is the belief that their held respective viewpoint is correct, therefore proving the other’s perspective incorrect. It is the disrupted unity of differing ideals by asserting a supposed ‘correct’ viewpoint onto the other.

As established in discussion of Alhaitham’s view on talent, a label has been placed on Alhaitham and therefore others set themselves apart from him. Unlike Kaveh, however, Alhaitham does nothing to disprove the conceptions formed of his character, as they ultimately do not inconvenience him, as he desires to live apart from those who would place certain expectations upon him.

Kaveh instigates a friendship between them by overlooking these assumptions, initially approaching Alhaitham due to a belief that he was being bullied, due to sitting apart from people in his darshan. It is stated in Kaveh’s Character Stories that Alhaitham was his “best friend”, insinuating that Kaveh did not solely consider Alhaitham as such, but that it was an understandably mutual sentiment. As observed, whilst Alhaitham does not necessarily seek out social contact or actively form deep connections, his friendship with Kaveh shows that he is not averse to doing so, so long as preconceptions are overlooked and a true understanding is developed.

Therefore, Kaveh’s words that instigated the split of their friendship that: “[Alhaitham] could be much better welcomed amongst people if he would just care…” revokes and criticises Alhaitham’s core principles; those same principles which Kaveh had previously interpreted as a positive opposition to his altruism, as seen within Kaveh's Old Sketchbook.

Rather than respecting Alhaitham’s outlook on life, Kaveh asserts his own over Alhaitham, which Alhaitham responds to in kind, by asserting his egoism over Kaveh. When Kaveh then states that Alhaitham is “too” intelligent, he uses the preconceptions that other scholars had used against Alhaitham. This not only reinforces that others were correct in their avoidance of Alhaitham, but also diminishes their friendship entirely, as he dons these misconceptions as a way to strike back against Alhaitham.

Along with stating his regret that he ever befriended Alhaitham, it is Kaveh’s weaponizing the general majority’s perspective of Alhaitham that effectively ends their friendship. By forsaking his own intimate understanding of Alhaitham, Kaveh alienates himself from Alhaitham. He does so by reinterpreting Alhaitham through the view of the general majority -  the collective which Alhaitham believes denies Kaveh from finding his true self.

So like Mobei Jun and Luo Binghe sit outside the room, listening intently as Shang Qinghua and Shen Qingqiu discuss what sounds like the worst book ever written. Shen Qingqiu keeps comparing it to a book Shang Qinghua apparently wrote while Shang Qinghua keeps defending it for its "campy charm". Then Shang Qinghua drops "You have to admit, They did describe death with surprising accuracy," and Shen Qingqiu responds, "How would you know? You only died once. If anyone knows death, it's me. That being said, I will admit. They were pretty much correct. BUT-" he then contenues to rant about the prose without skipping a beat. Mobei Jun and Luo Binghe are left flabbergasted and instantly agree to keep doing this.

here are some ideas for other things I think wouuld be funny for them to hear out of context

An entire session is spent making a "tier list" of foods neither demon had ever heard of and they drop the fact noodles somehow killed both of them

Shang Qinghua calls Luo Binghe his "protagonist son" and Shen Qingqiu argues that by that logic Mobei Jun would also be his son. Shang Qinghua says that it's different because Luo Binghe was partially a "self insert" while Mobei Jun was his idea of his ideal man. Shen Qingqiu demands he take that back and yells, "Luo Binghe is nothing like you!" only for Shang Qinghua to list a shocking amount of very personal similarities

Shang Qinghua says Shen Qingqiu should "respect his elders" and that he is "technically a senior citizen if you think about it"

Shen Qingqiu used to be a rich second-gen and Shang Qinghua "basically wrote straight porn and power fantasies for a living"