No Thanks

#i see it being brought up again and again and it's just. such a bad term #it's useless if not actively harmful imo

#like. those people who are in the "wrong group" for whatever oppression they're experiencing #they are still. experiencing that oppression. it is aimed at them. #they are perceived as part of the group by oppressors

#like ppl have shouted the d slur at me bc i'm perceived as a butch woman #even tho i am not a woman or a lesbian #and it still affects me. it is aimed at me. i am the intended target. saying it's misdirected is just like #extremely invalidating? and implies that i'm not /really/ experiencing it

#and that's just one example #i could also talk abt the myriad ways i am affected by misogyny even tho i'm not a woman

#i think it's more helpful to let there be gray areas in who is affected by what than to say #only x group is affected by x oppression #and any person from y group experiencing it is only experiencing a watered down misdirected form of it

#it's not a bad thing to acknowledge that any ppl perceived as women experience misogyny #or that anybody perceived as a queer woman probably experiences some amount of lesbophobia

So i’ve been helping a friend who’s questioning if they’re aro and i thought i might as well make a post with some of the advice that i’ve been giving them in case anyone else might find it useful. A lot of it involves questions to ask yourself that are supposed to help you confront internalized amatonormativity. I won’t tell you what different answers mean since you’ll know better than me how to interpret your own thoughts and feelings, but I may explain how they affect me.

Small disclaimer: this is all based on what has been helpful to me in the process of questioning and accepting myself as a nonamorous aroace, so i can’t say for sure that it will apply to everyone.

Imagine yourself in a romantic situation

Are you looking at the situation from a third person/outside pov or a first person/inside pov? If it’s third person, you are likely distancing yourself from the situation and should attempt to imagine it in first person.

How does the situation make you feel? Again, make sure you’re imagining this from a first person pov.

What does the other person look like? Are they distinct? Can you describe their features? I find that hypothetical s/o’s i imagine tend to be just featureless blobs.

What appeals to you about a romantic relationship?

Are the things involved things you consider romantic?

Why do you consider them romantic?

Do they need to be romantic, or can you see yourself getting these things from a platonic relationship?

Could it be cultural influences that are making you see these things as romantic?

Imagine yourself doing these things both with a romantic and platonic label. Which one feels more comfortable? I often find that simply labeling the activities as romantic is enough to make me feel uncomfortable while a platonic label on the exact same scenario makes it more appealing.

Generally, nothing has to be considered inherently romantic, even going so far as marriage or starting a family together. You can still think of them as romantic things, but they don’t have to be if those things still appeal to you while romance doesn’t.

Are you experiencing romantic attraction?

Think of someone you think you may have been attracted to. What do you want out of a relationship with them? Do you want a relationship at all?

If you think you do want a relationship with them, are the things you imagine doing with them romantic? 

If yes, why do you consider these things romantic?

Put a platonic label on the relationship you’re imagining and see if that makes you feel any different about it.

What i can say about my experience is that imagining platonic relationships or doing intimate things with my friends is a lot more solid and clearer and comfortable in my mind than imagining myself doing things i’ve explicitly labeled as romantic. 

Also, it’s important to reconsider what you think is romantic. Much of what constitutes romance is a social construct, so reminding yourself that you don’t have to be in a romantic relationship to have intimacy can help a lot in figuring out what you actually want. 

the aspec communities have some problems that really need to be addressed otherwise we’re going to tear ourselves apart. we’ve gotten enough from the “ace discourse” of 2017, and the effect that it’s had on our communities is devastating. we need to understand each other better and support each other. we need to stand in solidarity. below the cut i’ll be addressing these issues. these are problems that i’ve personally noticed in the community as well as suggestions from others. you’re free to comment your thoughts, of course, but please no discourse. that will detract from the message of this post. 

The SAM isn’t useful for all aspecs folks in general. I’m sure there are alloaces out there that do not use it for whatever reason, and I know a few aroallos that don’t use it either, myself included (if people assume my identities instead of asking me that’s a them problem).

the aspec communities have some problems that really need to be addressed otherwise we’re going to tear ourselves apart. we’ve gotten enough from the “ace discourse” of 2017, and the effect that it’s had on our communities is devastating. we need to understand each other better and support each other. we need to stand in solidarity. below the cut i’ll be addressing these issues. these are problems that i’ve personally noticed in the community as well as suggestions from others. you’re free to comment your thoughts, of course, but please no discourse. that will detract from the message of this post. 

- that we're gender conforming (there's no 'traditionally nonbinary' gender presentation, we are gnc because we don't fit into traditional femininity or masculinity)

- that we can pass (people will forcefully gender us regardless of presentation)

- that there's any sort of social pressure for nonbinary people to present androgynously (androgyny is widely stigmatized, the social pressure pushes us to avoid it at all costs and we are not better respected than nonbinary people who present in traditionally feminine or masculine ways)

- that there's only one way to be androgynous and that that is "vaguely masculine" (it's still one way to be androgynous though and that should be respected)

things everyone should be doing instead:

- supporting androgyny

- validating androgyny

- celebrating androgyny

Please do not complain about alloaros and aros without sexual orientations having their own spaces. Don’t invade those spaces either. If you’re angry about being excluded, you need to evaluate yourself. These spaces are not the problem. Alloaros and aros w/o sexual orientations are frequently erased and excluded in aro and aspec spaces. Alloaros in particular are treated horribly by us and other aces because of their allosexuality.

I urge you to educate yourself on the experiences of alloaros and aros w/o sexualities and the issues they face within our community. Understand why these spaces are necessary, and learn how you can change your behavior so aro and aspec spaces can be welcoming and safe for everyone.

Here’s some recommended starting points:

Here’s a post detailing examples of alloarophobia and how you can be an ally to alloaros.

More on alloaro erasure and it’s impact.

A post on non-SAM aro and other non-ace aro inclusivity.

Why recognizing aros and not alloaros specifically isn’t sufficient.

Why we as aroaces are part of the problem despite being aro ourselves.

How alloaros’ experience with allosexuality is different from alloromantic allosexuals.

Here’s a second one.

Why alloaros aren’t dividing the aro community.

More on how alloaros don’t feel welcome in general aro spaces.

This list is only a fraction of the information out there. Look through the alloaro and non-SAM aro tags. Look through blogs ran by alloaros and aros w/o sexualities. Share their posts. Follow through with their suggestions.

Some blog recommendations:

alloaroworlds

arotaro

aro-allo-positivity

aroallo

allo-aro-alphonse

nonsamaro

just-aro

By making and supporting queeragamic, a term that means “nonsexual qpr,” people have sexualized queerplatonic relationships and, if this term gets popular, people are going to think qprs are exclusively sexual. Asexuals aren’t gonna wanna use that term anymore resulting in us being even more divided than before. The more separation there is in the aspec community, the more arophobic aces are gonna feel comfortable being arophobic.

Not only that, but keep in mind that exclusionists hate aros too. Even more than they hate aces. They’re gonna see this, see kids in qprs, and see people supporting kids in qprs (because there’s nothing wrong with kids in qprs) and they’re gonna call us all pedophiles and groomers.

If you’re ace then sincerely shut the actual fuck up for once and listen to alloaros. As the ones with the biggest voice in the community, you need to stick up for us and listen when we start getting angry. There are hundreds of aros who have a problem with this term, and it’s not for no reason.

Once again, people ignore alloaros and throw us under the bus. They have made a decision that will fuck us over in the future and when we say something about it, y’all treat us like a bunch of kids having a tantrum. I don’t have to give anyone the “benefit of the doubt” I don’t have to talk to you in a “civilized” manner for you to fucking listen.

So @panace-void​ put these tags:

On this post of mine > ⭐

And you all saw me go off on them for that here > ⭐

But a friend of mine also went off on them via a reblog of my original post here > ⭐

And panace-void decided to respond to that like this > ⭐

Screenshot of their post:

With these tags:

And then went on to say this shit about my friend in a reblog of that post: (which is the version I linked)

So yeah @panace-void​ is an asshole of several varieties and should be blocked!

to their carrd (which is linked in thier bio if you wanna look at that)

Allosexual aromantics: constantly shit on aces and continue to do so no matter how many times they’re called on it

Aroace: “I don’t trust allo aspecs”

Alloaros, at this point in time, haven’t really been welcome in the aspec community. We are constantly given shit from alloaces, and, yes, aroaces. We’re told we’re disgusting. That we’re fake. That we don’t belong here. This has caused some of us to want our own community, away from people who keep pushing us down. I’d quite like if we could be together in a community, if it were anywhere near hospitable for my identity.

As we’ve been making these spaces, people have been pushing us back every step of the way. Alloarophobia is something so much of the community likes to ignore and give a pass to, so long as it doesn’t bother anyone else. To react to us wanting better treatment like this… makes me really sad. Because in asking for better treatment, we have to criticize the way things are now, and criticize the people doing it. My community does not hate ace people, nor do we hate aroaces, but we also recognize that a lot of people in those communities are hurting us. It’s sad that other aspecs, instead of listening to our criticism of things that hurt us, think we’re just complaining, and then hurt us even more.

People making our actual issues out to be nothing more than a catfight, when the community has consistently kicked us out, isn’t helping anyone, and it sure isn’t helping us. The fact that the community has taken us asking for less alloarophobia, and being genuinely upset that we’re being harmed, as “blaming aroaces for all of our problems” makes me feel ill. It tells me we’re not allowed to talk about it. That we’re not worth the trouble, because they’d rather just ignore it so their arophobic behavior doesn’t get criticized.