PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ADD!!! I am always hungry for more!!!
A mixture of my own fics, and fics I love, for anyone after some good parent Hope and Lyall content <3
Remus Centric/Background Hope & Lyall
Under The Willow - burnercell10
Oneshot, 4.8k, No rating. Poppy gets her new, extra special student with an introduction from his overly-protective dad <3
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Like Real People Do - third_crow and Oh, Mama, Don't Fuss Over Me
(36k, complete, T.) and (18k, T) Mainly a wolfstar fic - muggle AU, but has some lovely Hope in it <3 A different from canon take of complex illness kid and their pulling through it parent <3 (Lyall is um... not stepping up in this, I'll warn!!). Same universe, fic and it's side-plate!! Remus has brain damage w/ resulting epilepsy, in this.
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The Archive of a Full-Time Grocery Stocker - VerminWorship
WIP, 126k words, E. Remus centric - he's hard of hearing (and slowing going completely deaf) living veeeerryyyy close to the breadline and on the edge of his own life, basically. Wolfstar, with some lovely illustrations. But, LYALL IN THIS FIC - a brilliant well meaning, misplaced, problematic but essentially loves his son, even if he fails to respect him to the point of pushing him away kind of Lyall. He breaks my heart, but I love him.
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Penance - RoseLeviosa
This whole series (five books and some side-stories) 673k words, WIP, E. Canon-divergent/what if - Remus survives the Battle of Hogwarts. Look, these fics are brilliant (and bleak) and I have a lot of good things to say about them, but focusing on good parent Lupins; Hope is dead (but does haunt the narrative from time to time). Lyall is... Lyall is.... LORD okay. He is a good man. He is SO problematic and realistic and complicated and comes through in a major way sometimes, and flops so severely in others - he has sheep!!! and a nosy neighbour!! and a TV and a computer and is friends with Arthur Weasley!! and adores his grandson and is just an absolute problematic king in this. Also I feel he's kinda the secondary character, 70% of the time.
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Beneath a Big Blue Sky - eyra
68k, complete, E. You've probably read this, but if not, you should have, it's brilliantly written. Wolfstar meet-ugly muggle AU where Remus is a farmer's son from Yorkshire. Lives with Lyall and Hope and oh they are so sweet and lovely <3 Adore Lyall and James in particular, in this. Lyall is very gruff but kind and Remus is quite rough-round-the-edges but soft at heart. It's lush. Romance/humour/slice of life
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At the Very Least - AraHannan
Poppy meets her new time-consuming patient/student. Their first year together. 79k, complete, T. Lyall and Hope are in the background in this, mostly seen through letters back and forth from Poppy, but do make some in-person appearances. Even still, their dynamic with each other, and with Remus, is a big part of the fic. Essentially set up like "outsider looking in to this family's dynamic"
Lupin Family Centric
Inevitable - 1969 - Chapter 1 - BeckettSimpleton
My own fic - WIP currently at 34k words 14 chapters (rated T) about the secrets and lies Hope and Lyall have maintained since the bite coming back to bite them in the arse. Slice of life/family drama
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Sharp-tongued - burnercell10
WIP, currently 83.5k words and 30 chapters, rated M. The Lupins are the victim of a blood-purist terror attack, meanwhile werewolf policy is getting stricter and they are forced to take shelter at the Potters in the same Summer that Sirius runs away from home. So many great character combos. Hope + Sirius, Hope + Euphemia, Lyall + Fleamont UGH it's SO good. Also background gay panic from Sirius and lots of great Ministry politics with Lyall.
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Moon-kissed - Chapter 1 - burnercell10 - Harry Potter - J. K. Rowling [Archive of Our Own]
Oneshot, 6.8k, no rating. It's a "the bite" fic, but with a focus on Lyall's post at the Ministry and his interactions with Greyback and the political situation at the time. Also has Greyback POV which has some very cool insight into his intentions and how Lyall's actions influenced his behaviour. politics/angst/family
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The Field Trip - 1969 - Chapter 1 - BeckettSimpleton
My fic, complete 10k words - Lyall and Remus face their (shared and different) fears when Lyall brings Remus along to a work trip to wrangle some boggarts. Fluff/hurt/comfort
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All Month Long - 1968 - BeckettSimpleton
My own fic, oneshot at 2.6k words rated G - Basically bring your son to work day fluff - Remus goes with Lyall to the Department for the Regulation and Control of Dangerous Creatures. Family/fluff
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Dumbledore's visit - burnercell10
What it says on the tin - oneshot, 3k words, G. Lyall is wearing a Tokyo Olympics tshirt in this fic and I haven't gone more than three days without thinking about it since haha! family/slice of life
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But For The Grace of God - 1965
Another one of my own fics lol - 20k words, complete, T - it's about 6 months after the bite - Lupins are enjoying what they've managed to rebuild of their lives - they're back at work, Remus is back at school, all is well until the full moon fucks it up.
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This is How it Goes - AraHannan
Remus POV, recent months after the bite. 18k, complete, T. Slice of life, but the life is angsty - seeing Hope and Lyall and the whole messy situation through wee Remus' eyes (yowch).
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A Sight for Sore Eyes - BeckettSimpleton
This is my own fic - it's a oneshot (3.8k, G) about Remus going back to his childhood home in 1983 and seeing Hope for the first time since the end of the war. family/bittersweet
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Not Fooling Anyone - burnercell10
Oneshot, G, 3.4k. Aftermath of the prank, includes some very thoughtful and stellar characterisation of Remus and James, but a brilliant slice of Remus & Hope that steals the show <3
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Soon You'll Get Better - remtv
9k, complete, T. Another "the bite" fic - this one with a focus on the "finding a cure" thread and an exploration of Hope's powerlessness in the situation - without access to the information unless it's filtered through Lyall (who is misguidedly trying to shoulder the whole burden) and also she's realistically unable to care for Remus alone and is panicked by this.
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Three Weeks - BeckettSimpleton
My fic again, oneshot 3k words, G. The premise is basically, Remus has developed an obsession/anxiety about the passing of time re; the full moon, but is too young to actually fully grasp the concept. Set just after the bite. Hope and Lyall try a few solutions family/slice of life/emotional hurt/comfort/fluff
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(The Heart May Be) The Weakest Part of Me - 1965 -BeckettSimpleton
Complete, 10k words, my fic rated G. Remus' first full moon - before, during and after - and Hope and Lyall trying to explain to him what will happen. angst/hurt/comfort/family
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the hare and the hound - aeridi0nis
5.6k, Gen, oneshot. Wee Remus doesn't understand why he gets locked away at the full moon and thinks it's a punishment. Includes some messy but well-meaning (but problematic) Lupin parents inexpertly dealing with their less-than-perfect situation
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Puncture Repair - 1965 - BeckettSimpleton
My fic - oneshot with an illustration in ch. 2 - 9k words. It's a standard "the bite" fic, with a focus on muggle/wizard cross-cultural relations and the guilt that comes from having a sick child. angst/voilence/family/hurt/comfort
Hope/Lyall Centric
Magic Man - BeckettSimpleton
My fic - a oneshot 6.5k words rated T - Goofy and silly, Hope gets revenge on Lyall for bringing her to a boring Solstice mixer by dragging him to a muggle New Year's houseparty and telling everyone he's a magician. Humour/culture mixing/fluff/romance
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Just A Phase - 1965
This is one of mine, oneshot 6k words, post Remus' first full moon, Hope is trying to claw back some semblance of normality but the three of them are, let's face it, mentally unwell, Remus is terrorised by nightmares, they're all sleep deprived and anxious. Very easy circumstances to say things to your emotionally fragile husband that you might regret. angst/family
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Advice - burnercell10
Oneshot. 5k words, T. Remus goes to Lyall for advice after running away from pregnant Tonks. I'm putting this one in here even though it's very much about Remus' problematic decision to try and leave pregnant Tonks in DH because what stands out to me so much is Lyall's relationship to Hope and how their approach to raising Remus colours Lyall's response to Remus' decision. Like, yeah, it's about Remus - but it's a GREAT Lyall character study
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Out Of The Woods - burnercell10
12k complete, T. Origin/meet-ugly of Hope and Lyall, basically. BUT oh lord, they are both so well written, and so realistic, and their beginnings are so honest and funny and sweet and this fic is like, THE Hope/Lyall fic imo! Hope is brilliant in this. I mean, Lyall is also brilliant, but Hope is just so "complex, normal woman" in this and she's fantastic. humour/romance/fluff
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First Impressions - burnercell10
7k, complete, T. If you love Hope Lupin, then um, this one!!! It's the beginning stages of Hope and Lyall's relationship, where they meet each other's families and friends, and Hope gets led into the wizarding world. humour/romance
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That's my Good Parent Lupin rec list for now - not all perfect parents, but never antagonistic parents who don't love their son. A mix of delightful and kissable to problematic and frustrating. Love them so so much.
If you know of any others, please add them in the replies or a reblog! I'm always hunting for more.
Also if you read any of these, comment and kudos, pls <3
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i talk a lot about how my favorite missing moment in the hp series is the one referenced when harry mentions umbridge and sirius says âyou should hear remus talk about herâ but like, here is the reason for that.
remus spends the whole series speaking so cautiously, hesitating before he talks, choosing his words so carefully; something i think about a lot is the rarity with which he uses contractions in his speech, i.e. its always âhe willâ instead of heâll,â etc. what that says to me is that he speaks slowly, he thinks before he talks, he is measured and careful in his speech. everything he says out loud he has already gone through in his head.
and thereâs a reason for that, yeah? he does this on purpose, he does it because he has to maintain this exacted control or else people are going to be afraid. if he loses it, it is going to scare people. anger from remus â a raised voice, an aggressive movement, anything â is going to be perceived as corroboration of every stereotype and prejudice that he encourages people to resist with his constructed performance as a Good Werewolf. he canât afford to trust that he can drop that emotional wall, because the reality of it is, maybe he canât. maybe he drops it and people say âhere it is, here is the proof that he is a monster, and now we must do what has to be done to monsters.â and so through the entire series, remus is characterized largely by his restraint: what he does not say, what he does not show, what he does not let himself feel.
twice harry (and the reader) sees remus lose control: when dumbledore dies (triggered by grief) and during their fight in grimmauld during deathly hallows (triggered by shame, fear, anger, self-loathing â a lot of things). extreme situations and emotions are the only things that shake him, right, thats when he breaks, thatâs when he drops that shield: when he himself is so broken that he does not have the strength to keep it up any longer.
but here is the point in the long-winded rant where i wrap myself back around to the point:
whensirius says âyou should hear remus talk about her,â there is (to me, anyway) a clear implication that when remus talks about umbridge, heâs pissed. heâs angry. he gives himself permission to be angry around sirius and that is important to me because it means that he trusts sirius. he trusts that sirius knows who he is, and he trusts that around sirius he does not have to maintain this constant charade of being a Good Werewolf. he can be angry, and sirius will think no less of him. Â
there is trust there, and thatâs important to me, to know that remus does trust sirius again. itâs not a shipping thing or whatever, itâs just, the fact of the matter is that remus does not perform this self-protective act around sirius. that means there is one person who remus trusts himself with, and he needs that, and he deserves that. and iâm glad that it was sirius, for a very short period of time. iâm glad that they had one another back again, that they both had somebody who understood them fully again.
and thatâs my piece about it, yâknow, i donât expect everyone to care that much about this one-off line, but for me itâs important. take it or leave it ya feel me?
Again, the other time we see Remus even remotely angry is the Shack, and for a man ready to commit murder heâs still pretty damn put together. Just saying.
all of this!! that âyou should hear remus talk about herâ moment is, to me, definitive proof that remus and sirius are pretty damn comfortable with each other behind the scenes in ootp.
this is why i canât get behind âremus and sirius arenât close actuallyâ - thatâs an assumption you can make about them as teenagers from what we see in swm, sure, but their adult interactions do paint a different picture.
hard agree around remusâs usual considered speech patterns and restraint being about feeling pressure to perform the Good Werewolf - iâm always struck by this in the dh confrontation in grimmauld place:
Lupin sprang to his feet: His chair toppled over backward, and he glared at them so fiercely that Harry saw, for the first time ever, the shadow of the wolf upon his human face.
like⌠when remusâs unrestrained anger comes out (at the [correct] suggestion heâs being a coward), this is what harry thinks!! harry doesnât even have the ingrained werewolf prejudice of wider wizarding society, but thatâs still the association he makes upon witnessing remusâs anger. remus really canât express his emotions fully without running the risk of enforcing societal prejudice, and that informs so much of how he interacts with the world.
the fact that heâs willing to express anger about umbridge around sirius speaks volumes about the level of trust that exists in that relationship.
I am losing my mind over how Remus panicking after he finds out Tonks is pregnant gets painted as like, an executable offense. It is not his finest choice by far, and it's all quite pathetic, but he was likely gone for a few hours and went home with his tail between his legs after being told off by a teenager.
He had a lot of reason to be afraid and have regrets. We see how dangerous it is for Tonks to be in a relationship with him. Her parents don't approve, Remus (and her by association) is shunned by society, and they don't know how the lycanthropy will affect Tonks or the baby. Running away is literally the most cowardly way to handle it, but this is Remus' fatal flaw, and this is the part in the story where he overcomes it. He stops running away and goes home.
Remus had a mental breakdown. Because everything was shit.
The war, his anxiety and self loathing, every other werewolf siding with Voldemort - Dumbledore and Moody's deaths still fresh...
He is going to be a father without any money, no foreseeable future, his wife's career halted - hiding from the Ministry even before it was fully compromised because he's a werewolf...
He's experienced Bellatrix trying to shoot down his wife because she married a werewolf. The last wedding he went to ended in violence.
Last time shit was this bad, the Order being hunted down and shattered - he lost almost everyone who cared about him.
So: put Tonks away, safe, with the baby and her family... and run off to try to do what he thinks would make Dumbledore proud.
Or die trying - because he wasn't going to be useful staying alive.
Too old, too poor, too sick.
To his mind - staying only puts her at more risk.
He undervalues how much choosing to live with her matters, because he undervalues his own self worth. He only see's a wolf.
He was probably trying to make a brave bold decision:
Sit with his simmering guilt - just so he can feel comfortable...?
Like all the times he had fun on the Full Moons and felt guilty?
Watching his friends give Severus grief while feeling guilty?
Staying at Hogwarts, comfortable, not mentioning Sirius' secret?
No. He has to stand up for whats right for once.
And what's right is not getting Tonks killed so he can play family.
He probably had an argument with Tonks, that she is better off hiding while he runs off to die doing something useful - Teddy can grow up without a diseased failure dragging him down.
Maybe they can pretend he never existed! That'd fix everything!
Blocked his ears to her saying he was full of shit and went to find Harry - only for Harry to also say he was full of shit.
Remus thinks he is being 'a good werewolf'. They think he is being 'a shitty human' - because they both see him as human. Because he is.
He goes and sulks, thinks of his own parents, realizes they're right.
Whether Teddy is a werewolf or not - he wants to be a good human. He wants to give Teddy the love his own parents gave to him despite his condition - because imagine if his dad had abandoned him.
He goes home and apologizes... and doesn't freak out again.*
A few hours gone. A day, maybe, if you want to really stretch it.
Honestly, even if it was days, or a week - he has more than enough understandable reason to have a heavy mental breakdown.
And he FIXED it. He went back home and did things right, even though he is so used to just running away.
Not the worst thing he's done to someone. Just dramatic.
* maybe actually did freak out again - Tonk's was chasing after him into the Battle of Hogwarts soon after Teddy's birth. Why the hell would they both run to their deaths when their kid is still breastfeeding...? Unless Remus ran, trying to be useful, trying to take down their enemies... and Tonks tried to find him and bring him home.
Yes! Remus was over a year into a severe mental spiral (Sirius' death, leaving Tonks, werewolf camp, losing Dumbledore, rushing into marriage, losing Moody, accidental pregnancy, full-blown war breaking out, etc.) when he ran away and he had every reason to believe that his family was SAFER without him.
Was it a shitty thing to do? Absolutely! Did it probably - ironically - lead to Tonks' death? Yessiree! But hindsight is 20-20. In that moment, he was convinced that he was making a noble sacrifice (because, you know, he's a martyr) and that his wife and child would truly be better off (in significant, potentially life-saving ways) without him.
Remus was probably right (at least to a degree) about the âdisgustedâ way Andromeda saw him in Deathly Hallows.
 I know itâs a common idea that heâs making it up or exagerating out of self pity, but I think that kinda denies what we know to be true of the way he is treated across the board.Â
It relies solely on the idea that if youâre progressive in one regard (here, Andromeda marrying a muggleborn) than youâll be progressive everywhere despite the negative propoganda and societal demonisation of a groupâŚwhich just isnât the case in any way.Â
Like, look at some of the examples we get about werewolves:
Werewolves have to be registered.Â
There are no laws protecting the working rights of werewolves, and therefore people can, and always do, deny jobs on the basis of lycanthropy. Remus has to leave places when people find out about it, and has to try to disguise it.Â
By 1995 shifting laws and the attitude towards werewolves makes this even harder some of which no doubt used Remus as an example.Â
Remus is mentioned in the national newspaper for having a job. And not just once (and not his connection to Sirius, that remains unknown) but years after the fact they still point to him being a teacher as a mistake Dumbledore made. â Even when Dumbeldore successfully conviced Fudge Remus was trying to save the trioâs lives.Â
He receives letters from parents for being a werewolf (I donât believe weâre ever told that Snape tells them anything else except his indenty, so that is what they are complaining about)Â
Werewolvesâ testimonies and eye witness accounts do not count, Dumbledore said that even if Remus hadnât been friends with Sirius noone would listen to the eye witness statement from a werewolf â suggesting full disenfranchisement and lack of a political voice at all (the WW is actually a democracy, but this suggests Remus may not have voting rights)
Werewolves are so disenfranshised they are pushed out of society completely, Itâs not a love of Greyback thatâs pushed them there, itâs the fact that are not allowed to particiapte in daily life in the wizarding world â meaning neither is Remus.Â
Werewolf children arenât educated, the fact that Dumbledore decided to risk it with Remus is subversive â no one other head teacher would do that.
Even Molly, who is arguably demonstrably more progressive than Andromeda, has an issue with Werewolves. Sheâs okay with Remus, because she likes him personally, but worries that just being in a room with another (sick) werewolf is dangerous.Â
Ronâs initial reaction to hearing that Remus is a werewolf is to refuse to let him help him/go anywhere near him.Â
Medication for werewolves is priced so they canât have it like, thatâs fucked (wolfsbane is hrt confirmed)
Tonks has to hide rather than be seen with her husband by her own boss, because of the attitudes of people towards werewolves.Â
And then on top of thatâŚÂ
The only werewolf Andromeda would likely know about would be Greyback. Who yâknow has earnt his reputation.Â
Andromeda would have been raised not only in a society that we know openly despises werewolves, but as a member of the Pureblood elite whoâd teach their own beliefs on werewolves (like the Weasley do to a lesser extent, and we know their reactions). She might have been able to unlearn her prejudices about muggleborns, but itâs unlikely her beliefs on werewolves would be challenged at all until she met Remus in 1997.
Remus is likely right when he points out to Harry that he only sees him with the Order, under Dumbledoreâs protection â where his voice and personhood is respected and listened to. Everything else we know about his life suggests this is rare.
There are other, non-lycanthropy related, reasons for Andromeda to dislike Remus depending on what Tonks has told her (which is probably not much, letâs be honest) â but the disgust Remus mentions?? Thatâs much more likely to be real than a figment of self pity.
(this is a clean-up of an earlier post, incorporating some of the excellent feedback & additions I got.)
Men do 32% of the crying in the Harry Potter books, even though they represent 66% of the characters (pretty much as expected).* However, Iâm interested in why the crying happens, and what it says about the characters. Because for the ladies, crying is pretty neutral - they all cry, and for all sorts of reasons (tired, frustrated, stressed, emotionally overwrought...) Bellatrix, Augusta Longbottom, Ginny, Tonks⌠all cry. Hermione cries thirty separate times over the course of the books. There is a point where where the narrative framing judges them for crying too much (Cho) but mostly it's a non-issue.
Male crying though, is something that gets mocked (by Slytherins.) Pansy calls Neville a âfat little cry baby,â and after Ritaâs article (falsely) says that Harry was crying, Draco comes in with âWant a hanky, Potter, in case you start crying in Transfiguration?â Thereâs also âDâyou think [Hagrid]âll cry when they cut off his hippogriffâs - â right before Hermione slaps Draco. So making fun of people for crying is bad right?Â
Letâs get into it.Â
1 : Crying because of a death
The most acceptable reason for male crying. Mostly it happens *right* at the moment of death, or possibly at the funeral/next to the grave. Severus cries over Lily's letter (the ripped one which Harry later finds) which is certainly grave-adjacent.
In Book 3, Harry cries while talking to Lupin about hearing his parents dying (although the narrative voice DOES let us know that heâs kind of embarrassed about this.)
âHarry suddenly realized that there were tears on his face mingling with the sweat. He bent his face as low as possible, wiping them off on his robes, pretending to do up his shoelace, so that Lupin wouldnât see.âÂ
This attempt to hide hide tears shows up a few more times. Sirius *also* cries when talking about Lily and James' deaths... or does he?
[Harry] was pointing at Black, who shook his head slowly; the sunken eyes were suddenly overbright. "Harry...I as good as killed them," he croaked. "I persuaded Lily and James to change to Peter at the last moment, persuaded them to use him as Secret-Keeper instead of me. ... I'm to blame, I know it. ... The night they died, I'd arranged to check on Peter, make sure he was still safe, but when I arrived at his hiding place, he'd gone. Yet there was no sign of a struggle. It didn't feel right. I was scared. I set out for your parents' house straight away. And when I saw their house, destroyed, and their bodies...I realized what Peter must've done...what I'd done. ..." His voice broke. He turned away. "Enough of this," said Lupin, and there was a steely note in his voice Harry had never heard before.
@strawberrybasilsorbet analyzes this passage extremely well:
"Suddenly overbright" is a particularly memorable descriptor for me. What an unusual way to describe having tears in one's eyes! It verges on euphemistic. "His voice broke" is much more direct, but still relies on implication instead of mentioning tears outright â which, considering that the intended audience is young readers, could be seen as subtle. Like Harry in the example above, Sirius clearly considers crying something to be ashamed of: he turns away to hide his tears. And in this moment, the sentences also become short. Halting, stilted. The narrative voice evokes Sirius's feelings here instead of describing his actions in detail.
It isn't until later in the scene, when Sirius and Lupin begin to take action, that we get a straightforward description: "[Sirius] approached Lupin and the struggling rat, and his wet eyes suddenly seemed to be burning in his face." But even here, it is an understated observation. We don't get a description of actual crying, or even holding back tears."
Sirius also cries in Book 4, while listening to Harry describe seeing the shades of his parents come out of Voldemort's wand.
At this point, Harry found he could not continue. He looked around at Sirius and saw that he had his face in his hands.
@strawberrybasilsorbet continues,
"[this] example is more ambiguous â Sirius might be crying, he might be trying not to cry, or he might just be overwhelmed â but either way, the scene reflects a similar approach to strong emotion. Sirius covers his face to hide his sorrow; the narrator makes a short, declarative observation that leaves a lot between the lines.
These scenes suggest that masculine tears are most respected by the narrative when they are (1) in response to grief, (2) irrepressible, despite the character's attempts to obscure or prevent them. Sirius and Harry are the two characters who represent this most clearly, although Lupin's sudden steeliness in the PoA scene implies that he shares this perspective. (This is also reflected in Lupin's decision to switch from talk to action: he cuts the conversation abruptly when Sirius begins to cry, demanding that Ron hand over Scabbers immediately. He is likely trying to spare his friend the ordeal of further emotional vulnerability).
The narrator's voice seems to share this instinct, giving Sirius the dignity of subtlety when describing his emotions. This contrasts strongly with characters like Peter, whose tears are described in vivid and humiliating detail. What I think is especially revealing is how...discreet?...the narrator's voice becomes when Sirius is the character who is crying.
There is this slight *fan dance* quality present, where we see Sirius before he starts crying, and then again after he has already cried. But really don't see him actually crying.
Harry also has an interesting, sort of delayed reaction to Dumbledore's death:
Dumbledore had weakened himself by drinking that terrible potion for nothing. Harry crumpled the parchment in his hand, and his eyes burned with tears as behind him. Fang began to howl. He clutched the cold locket in his hand so tightly that it hurt, but he could not prevent hot tears spilling from his eyes
Thereâs a lot going on in this moment: Harry is tired, frustrated, disappointed, overwhelmed. But we still get that note that tears are something that ought to be hidden, and that even though Harry is trying to stop them, these happen to be irrepressible.
Crying because of a death: Full Breakdown
Amos Diggory: 1 (Cedricâs death)Â
Arthur Weasley: 1 (Fredâs death)
Harry Potter: 5 (Hedwig, Lily, James, Dumbledore, Sirius)
Youâd think this one would also be acceptable. But⌠not really? Dudley cries when Vernon hits him (but Harry doesnât.) Peter Pettigrew cries when he cuts off his own hand, Saw style, but it gets framed as blubbering weakness. It's unclear exactly what Voldemort is doing to Quirrell in Book 1 to make him cry, but it doesn't sound fun.
âNo â no â not again, please ââ It sounded as though someone was threatening him. Harry moved closer. âAll right â all right ââ he heard Quirrell sob.
And it's then Quirrell himself who frames his instance of crying as weak: "Sometimes (...) I find it hard to follow my masterâs instructions â he is a great wizard and I am weak ââ
Our last guy who cries in pain is Neville, first after he breaks his wrist during flying lessons, and again when he is tortured by Bellatrix. He also âsniffs,â while walking into the Forbidden Forest for detention, which *might* count? But really, Neville cries surprisingly little. We get a lot of âlooked as though he might cryâ and âon the verge of tearsâ... but that's not actually crying. And I think thatâs because - early-books Neville, yes weâre supposed to see him as a little pathetic. But definitely not as pathetic as Dudley, Quirrell or Pettigrew. @blorger writes:
The characters who cry for pain are crying because they're just Not Man Enough (and that's wormtail's biggest failure as a character, isn't it?). Neville, to me, is the perfect encapsulation of JKR's attitude towards crying: he is constantly on the verge of crying, especially in the first books, because we're meant to feel a sort of benign pity for him, his weakness makes him amiable, yes, but there's still strength in his character (he can stop himself from crying! see, he's brave!). Neville does Suffering well, and nothing shows one's character to jkr more than how they handle suffering.
Crying in pain: Full Breakdown
Dudley Dursley: 1 (hit by Uncle Vernon)
Neville Longbottom: 2 (broken wrist, tortured)
Peter Pettigrew: 1 (hand cut off)
Professor Quirrell: 1 (non-specific Voldemort torture)
Bonus almost crying:Â
Dudley Dursley: Fake crying
Neville Longbottom: âlooked as though he might cryâ âon the verge of tears.âÂ
Professor Quirrell: âlooked as though he was about to cryâ
3: âChildlikeâ crying
Sometimes the people who cry are literally little boys. No one is going to judge infant Harry for crying when Voldemort is in the house, or little Severus for crying when his parents are fighting. Interestingly, when Myrtle is talking about Draco crying in her bathroom, Harry assumes sheâs talking about someone much younger:Â
âThereâs been a boy in here crying?â said Harry curiously. âA young boy?âÂ
But of course, when an adult is crying in a childlike way, it immediately becomes⌠pathetic. Again we have Pettigrew, who âburst into tears. It was horrible to watch: He looked like an oversized, balding baby, cowering on the floor.â In the Horcrux cave, crying Dumbledore is described âlike a child dying of thirst.â Which is also meant to be pathetic, but in more of a âHarry has to be the adult nowâ sort of way. Also, the potion seems to have made Dumbledore mentally regress back to his youth, so itâs *closer* to a literal âchild cryingâ moment.Â
(I considered putting Dumbledore drinking the potion in the âpainâ section, but at least in the book I think itâs clear heâs mostly in emotional rather than physical pain.)
Where this gets messy is with the house-elves. House-elves are not children, but they are presented as childlike. They are small and in-your-face, direct even though their problem-solving tends to be very convoluted/not especially logical. I like the present-tense, no pronouns way they speak, but I canât deny it is kind of baby-talk adjacent. And⌠house elves are *really* emotional. Dobby, Kreacher (and Winky) cry a LOT. If I had to guess, I would say JKR likes treating house-elves as childlike so itâs more of a surprise when it turns out that one of them was behind everything. But considering that they are slaves, it is gross - considering that one of the main real-world justifications for slavery was âslaves are childlike, and therefore unable to take care of themselves.'
Thereâs also Hagrid. With seventeen separate instances of crying, Hagrid easily cries more than any other guy in the Harry Potter books. And⌠well⌠heâs also presented as oddly childlike. He seems much more like Harry and Ronâs contemporary than a peer of the other professors - which is weird, since if he went to school with Voldemort fifty years ago, heâs in his sixties now. But still, heâs helpless in the face of criticism, heâs comically out of his depth whenever he deals with the Ministry, heâs constantly letting things slip or drastically misjudging danger levels. The first three books all use âHagrid gets in trouble, the gang has to bail him outâ as a plot point, and in Book 4 his sideplot with Madame Maxime gets treated like a schoolboyâs first crush, with all these jokes about him wearing suits that donât quite fit, and trying and failing to style his hair.
Childlike crying: Full breakdown
Rubeus Hagrid: 13
Dobby: 7
Kreacher: 3
Peter Pettigrew: 1
Harry Potter: 1 (infant)
Severus Snape: 1 âwhile a small dark-haired boy cried in a corner.â âit was unnerving to think that the crying little boy who had watched his parents shouting âÂ
Albus Dumbledore:Â 1 "like a child dying of thirst"
4. Crying because of strong emotion
The main distinction in this section is going to be... does the character try to suppress the crying, or not? If they do try to suppress it, then it stays respectable, almost on a level with grief-crying. If not well... that means that the character crying is meant to read as a little pathetic, a little femme or (lets face it)... both.
Take this example of Ron crying after he destroys the locket horcrux:
Ron was breathing heavily: His eyes were no longer red at all, but their normal blue; they were also wet. Harry stooped, pretending he had not seen, and picked up the broken Horcrux. (...) âAfter you left,â he said in a low voice, grateful for the fact that Ronâs face was hidden, â[Hermione] cried for a week. Probably longer, only she didnât want me to see..."
Hermione is allowed more tears because she is a girl, but there does come a point where she has to cry in private or else run the risk of being perceived as crying too much (like Cho.) In terms of the boys - again, we've got a moment similar to the one Sirius and Remus have, where Ron is (correctly) hiding his tears and Harry is (correctly) doing a 'I'm going to protect you from further vulnerability by kind of changing the subject / pretending that I didn't see you cry' kind of thing. Also like we see in the Sirius example, the description of Ron's crying is subtle, almost euphemistic ("wet eyes.") We are not using the word cry, or tears, or sob anything like that.
Neville also cries in private. Back in Book 1, he does cry into his pillow after losing Gryffindor 50 house points. But the moment is hidden. He keeps the tears in - until he's alone, in bed, and (just like with Ron) Harry pretends he doesn't hear.
Look at this next excerpt, of Percy's reunion with his family, and look especially at how the crying of all three characters is handled:
Mrs. Weasley burst into tears. She ran forward, pushed Fred aside, and pulled Percy into a strangling hug, while he patted her on the back, his eyes on his father.
âIâm sorry, Dad,â Percy said.
Mr. Weasley blinked rather rapidly, then he too hurried to hug his son.
âWhat made you see sense, Perce?â inquired George.
âItâs been coming on for a while,â said Percy, mopping his eyes under his glasses with a corner of his traveling cloak.
Molly is crying buckets, no problem. Arthur gets almost-crying or euphemistic crying. And Percy is explicitly crying, not trying to hide it, and even gets the slightly comedic imagery of trying to wipe his eyes without taking off his glasses.
And well, JKR respects Percy less than she respects Arthur. As @arkadijxpancakes puts it, "When it comes to Percy, I'm still surprised how subdued his crying in that scene is. Because, yeah, Rowling does respect him less. She also has a tendency to write him in a pretty feminine manner. It's still a stark contrast to his mother, however."
So from this, we can see that this male heightened emotionality is meant to look a bit comedic - like when Oliver Wood cries when Gryffindor wins the Quidditch cup "to highlight that his weird priorities are funny and slightly ridiculous," ( @blorger.) We also don't see Hogwarts-age Severus actually cry, but considering his nickname is âSnivellusâ (ie âcrybaby,â since âsnivelingâ is a synonym for crying) I'm assuming he does. Just the word "Snivellus" is clearly supposed to funny and a little pathetic.
Slughorn has an interesting instance of crying at Aragog's funeral, not out of grief for Aragog, but out of a maudlin sense of togetherness, nostalgia, and camaraderie. It *is* supposed to be funny that he's crying over a giant spider he just met. Like Percy, Slughorn is also a bit femme-coded: a flashy dresser with lilac pajamas, who loves his treats and fancy dinner parties, and is well-connected without being ambitious the way Lucius is. He also is aligned with pureblood-supremacy, but hyper avoidant of violence and confrontation... just like someone else we know.
Draco of course gets a BIG crying scene in Book 6. We hear about him crying once from Myrtle, and then see it first hand:Â
Malfoy was crying â actually crying â tears streaming down his pale face into the grimy basin.
The narrative voice takes a second to let us know that he was ACTUALLY CRYING, just to hammer in that this is something unexpected and not-normal. I think I want also to attribute Dracoâs tendency to cry - and cry because heâs overwhelmed, scared, lonely - to the characterâs slight femme coding. And the fact that JKR clearly sees him as a bit pathetic.
We get this third-hand description of Peter's confrontation with Sirius, but ill take it:
âPettigrew died a heroâs death. Eyewitnesses (...) told us how Pettigrew cornered Black. They say he was sobbing, âLily and James, Sirius! How could you?â
It's told this way to make the twist work - Peter isn't holding back his tears in a many fashion, he's opening sobbing. And Peter, as we know, is treated as extremely pathetic and not even slightly respected by the narrative.
The most surprising person to land in this particular category is Dumbledore. I was very surprised he cries as much as he does, at such unusual times, and with none of the "manliness" of a crying Harry, Ron, Sirius, or Arthur. He cries when he sees Snapeâs doe patronus - because of love or just because heâs emotionally overwhelmed. He cries all through the Horcrux cave, primarily because of guilt. He cries twice during the Kingâs Cross Station vision-quest, once because of his complicated feelings about Harry while he asks for forgiveness, and once over ⌠Grindelwald.
âThey say he showed remorse in later years, alone in his cell at Nurmengard. I hope that it is true. I would like to think he did feel the horror and shame of what he had done. Perhaps that lie to Voldemort was his attempt to make amends . . . to prevent Voldemort from taking the Hallow . . .âÂ
â. . . or maybe from breaking into your tomb?â suggested Harry, and Dumbledore dabbed his eyes.
My theory is that Dumbledore gets all these tears because he is actually, deliberately queer coded. JKR announced that Dumbledore was gay just a few months after Book 7 was published, and I think she had that character interpretation in her head as early as Book 6. My proof of that is Dumbledore's increased emotionality - and also this interesting passage from Book 6:Â
This younger Albus Dumbledoreâs long hair and beard were auburn. Having reached their side of the street, he strode off along the pavement, drawing many curious glances due to the flamboyantly cut suit of plum velvet that he was wearing. âNice suit, sir,â said Harry, before he could stop himself, but Dumbledore merely chuckled.
Wizards out and about in the muggle world often wear unusual colors like purple and emerald green. However. That adjective flamboyantly is only used one other time in the entire series, to describe Fudgeâs hand gestures. Here, it is used to describe clothes, a purple velvet suit which is honestly more than a little bit Oscar Wilde. And âflamboyantly gayâ ⌠those are two words often heard together.Â
Also, correct me if Iâm wrong, but I am pretty sure this is the only opinion about clothing Harry ever expresses aloud. @niche-pastiche hit the nail right on the head with the observation that "Nice suit, sir" is SO the response of a young adhd boy in the early 2000s trying not to say "thats gay."Â
And so that's my say. In JKR's head, crying isn't "manly" - so if you are crying, it's because you're a woman, you're a child, you're funny/pathetic, or you're ambiguously femme-coded. A noble single man tear is allowed at times of intense grief, but otherwise you have to turn your head away.
Crying because of strong emotion: Full breakdownÂ
Draco Malfoy: 2
Severus Snape: 1
Albus Dumbledore: 4
Horace Slughorn: 1
Oliver Wood: 1
Arthur Weasley: 1
Percy Weasley: 1
Ron Weasley: 1
Neville Longbottom: 1
Peter Pettigrew: 1
*My list of 208 Harry Potter characters comes from TV Tropes, which had the most complete breakdown. I am excluding characters from Cursed Child and the Fantastic Beasts Films. Also, please tell me if there are any instances of crying that I missed.
Hope you don't mind me adding something but I think I thought of two more instances of Dumbledore crying because he is emotionally overwhelmed that aren't featured in this excellent meta but kind of only further emphasise its point.
(At least I think they're missing. If I missed something in the post, I apologise)
1. In OotP at the end of the chapter The Lost Prophecy:
âI feel I owe you another explanation, Harry,â said Dumbledore hesitantly. âYou may, perhaps, have wondered why I never chose you as a prefect? I must confess . . . that I rather thought . . . you had enough responsibility to be going on with.â
Harry looked up at him and saw a tear trickling down Dumbledoreâs face into his long silver beard.
2. When Harry tells him that he's "Dumbledore's man through and through"
Dumbledore opened his mouth to speak and then closed it again. Behind Harry, Fawkes the phoenix let out a low, soft, musical cry. To Harryâs intense embarrassment, he suddenly realized that Dumbledoreâs bright blue eyes looked rather watery and stared hastily at his own knees. When Dumbledore spoke, however, his voice was quite steady.
Both of these are rather understated, but I don't think they still fit the bill, which would bring Dumbledore's count of crying from emotional overwhelm up to 6.
They are also instances of a man crying because he feels affection for someone without them being dead, which i find very interesting. I don't think any other man does that (maybe except hagrid?).
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Sirius, having the ungodly patience to wait in a pumpkin patch at the end of GoF
"Moody," Harry said. He was still in a state of complete disbelief. "How can it
have been Moody?"
"This is not Alastor Moody," said Dumbledore quietly. "You have never known
Alastor Moody. The real Moody would not have removed you from my sight after
what happened tonight. The moment he took you, I knewâand I followed."
Dumbledore bent down over Moody's limp form and put a hand inside his robes.
He pulled out Moody's hip flask and a set of keys on a ring. Then he turned to
Professors McGonagall and Snape.
"Severus, please fetch me the strongest Truth Potion you possess, and then go
down to the kitchens and bring up the house-elf called Winky. Minerva, kindly go
down to Hagrid's house, where you will find a large black dog sitting in the
pumpkin patch. Take the dog up to my office, tell him I will be with him shortly,
then come back here."
Please whatâs Favorite (good) things about Remus lupin?
I think one of my favourite things about Lupin is how he lets you stumble over your own answers. He has tremendous faith in young people and gives them space to think for themselves. He really is a great mentor in PoA. Here are some instances:
When discussing the Dementor's Kiss, the end that awaits Sirius Black, Harry is quick with his answer:
âYes,â said Harry defiantly. âFor ... for some things ...â
Lupin doesn't correct him or pretend to know better. He is having a really mature exchange with someone much younger than him.
"Lupin said lightly" shows how he isn't letting Harry feel in any way that this isn't a safe space, despite the topic being a sensitive one for himself too.
He doesn't explode or reprimand Harry, but he doesn't agree either, he lets Harry think about it... Interestingly, this all works to bring Harry to his PoA arc! Themes on who gets to decide who is guilty, is justice to be trusted?
With Harry being someone quite emotionally shut towards adults (understandably so), it always gets to me how quickly he opens up to Lupin.
Lupin said, âAnything worrying you, Harry?â
âNo,â Harry lied. He drank a bit of tea and watched the grindylow brandishing a fist at him. âYes,â he said suddenly, putting his tea down on Lupinâs desk. âYou know that day we fought the boggart?
Then when Harry asks him why he got skipped for the boggart lesson, Lupin says:
âI would have thought that was obvious, Harry,â he said, sounding surprised.
Harry, who had expected Lupin to deny that heâd done any such thing, was taken aback.
Harry is surprised - gee this adult is actually agreeing with me? He isn't denying or saying I'm imagining things?
This exchange, leads to:
âWell, well ... Iâm impressed.â He smiled slightly at the look of surprise on Harryâs face. âThat suggests that what you fear most of all is â fear. Very wise, Harry.â
Lupin is actually learning from Harry, and giving him credit. How often have we known a teacher to do this this? His faith in Harry, and in all his students, has always been something I've loved about Lupin.
To continue to bang this drum, which I agree with, during the Patronus Charm lessons Harry tells Lupin about what he hears when the dementors are near. This is something he has never told anyone, not even Ron or Hermione.
Narratively, of course, this is to help reveal Lupinâs relationship with James and by extension Sirius, but Harry tells him before that, when heâs hearing only Lily. The only time that comes up to anyone else is when he is yelling at Sirius in the Shack before knowing the truth, that Sirius never had to hear âhis mumâ begging Voldemort, like he, Harry has. (Which, ooof, is going to be a knife to one Sirius Blackâs chest.)
In fact, Harry so regularly confides in Lupin during these lessons that one time I stopped in the middle of reading aloud and said, âDoes Harry do that a lot? Tells Professor Lupin things?â
I got nods all the way around, by the way.
Which is why, at the point we are now (we just finished the Cat, Rat and Dog chapter) it is so shocking to the audience and Harry to think Lupin was helping Sirius into the castle. (Heâs not and that will become clear, but not yet.)
I remember the moment I'd say that I met Lily Evans, which was the first time I read OotP. That's a book I latched onto hard when I first read it, for a number of reasons (Sirius content!!) but in large part because of the surprising amount of important women, meaningful women, women who Do Things who aren't just Hermione. Ginny gets her badass level up in this book, Luna shows that being clever doesn't mean being nerdy necessarily, Tonks and Bellatrix bring the firepower, and even Mrs. Weasley gets to show some serious personality with the introduction of Fabian and Gideon's tragic deaths (they might actually be the only male example of fridging I can accept). And then there was Lily, holding her own in a verbal sparring match with James, turning on Snape when he doesn't respect her, refusing to be dismissed or minimized.
I didn't identify a lot with Hermione as a child - the comparison was inevitable, because of how much I read and how I absorbed knowledge, but I didn't see myself in her much because personality wise we're very different. Lily was different. I looked at her and I saw a lot of myself. I'm not really sure why - she's much cooler than I am - but I won't ever be able to shake that.
Impression now:
look I just fucking love her. I love a feminist member of an ethnic minority trying to hold her own in political turmoil. I love a passionate woman who knows what and who she wants and states it boldly and goes after it with no regrets. I love how academically gifted she is, how brave she is, how messy she is and how unapologetic she is. I love her kindness and her wit. I think she's great.
Favorite moment:
I'm actually going to give it to something we never see, which is her little shared moments with visitors while in hiding. She writes to Sirius about this to an extent but something about thinking of her playing hostess and wishing she could be Out There Doing Something really gets me.
Idea for a story:
The one I'm writing now, actually! This started out as a Jily-centric "what happened between winter 1977 and autumn 1981" fic and has turned into something that's both more general (including other characters) and more specialized (Lily Explains The Motion Pictures). I just want to write about her life.
Unpopular opinion:
this isn't really unpopular I don't think but I'm always annoyed by people treating Lily like a trophy their fave can win by being loyal or clever or funny or naturally deserving. She pretty clearly spoke for herself, constantly, and as a result that's why I tend to default to Jily in the sea of potential Lily ships - I just can't see her marrying someone without knowing 100% that he deserves her time and attention and love. Anything else, for me, doesn't take her obvious desire for autonomy and respect into account.
Favorite relationship:
Honestly my actual favorite relationship is the friendship she evidently had with Sirius. I sort of see him as the amorphous platonic domestic partner that the Potters never officially acknowledged they had, because he's James's brother/best friend/platonic boyfriend/partner in crime/inverse/other half/etc, and he's Lily's confidante and companion and fellow roller-of-eyes at James's various shenanigans. There's a reason he was made godfather and legal guardian.
Favorite headcanon:
That she and Sev co-developed the hacks and recipes and spells in the Prince's textbook.
I remember the moment I'd say that I met Lily Evans, which was the first time I read OotP. That's a book I latched onto hard when I first read it, for a number of reasons (Sirius content!!) but in large part because of the surprising amount of important women, meaningful women, women who Do Things who aren't just Hermione. Ginny gets her badass level up in this book, Luna shows that being clever doesn't mean being nerdy necessarily, Tonks and Bellatrix bring the firepower, and even Mrs. Weasley gets to show some serious personality with the introduction of Fabian and Gideon's tragic deaths (they might actually be the only male example of fridging I can accept). And then there was Lily, holding her own in a verbal sparring match with James, turning on Snape when he doesn't respect her, refusing to be dismissed or minimized.
I didn't identify a lot with Hermione as a child - the comparison was inevitable, because of how much I read and how I absorbed knowledge, but I didn't see myself in her much because personality wise we're very different. Lily was different. I looked at her and I saw a lot of myself. I'm not really sure why - she's much cooler than I am - but I won't ever be able to shake that.
Impression now:
look I just fucking love her. I love a feminist member of an ethnic minority trying to hold her own in political turmoil. I love a passionate woman who knows what and who she wants and states it boldly and goes after it with no regrets. I love how academically gifted she is, how brave she is, how messy she is and how unapologetic she is. I love her kindness and her wit. I think she's great.
Favorite moment:
I'm actually going to give it to something we never see, which is her little shared moments with visitors while in hiding. She writes to Sirius about this to an extent but something about thinking of her playing hostess and wishing she could be Out There Doing Something really gets me.
Idea for a story:
The one I'm writing now, actually! This started out as a Jily-centric "what happened between winter 1977 and autumn 1981" fic and has turned into something that's both more general (including other characters) and more specialized (Lily Explains The Motion Pictures). I just want to write about her life.
Unpopular opinion:
this isn't really unpopular I don't think but I'm always annoyed by people treating Lily like a trophy their fave can win by being loyal or clever or funny or naturally deserving. She pretty clearly spoke for herself, constantly, and as a result that's why I tend to default to Jily in the sea of potential Lily ships - I just can't see her marrying someone without knowing 100% that he deserves her time and attention and love. Anything else, for me, doesn't take her obvious desire for autonomy and respect into account.
Favorite relationship:
Honestly my actual favorite relationship is the friendship she evidently had with Sirius. I sort of see him as the amorphous platonic domestic partner that the Potters never officially acknowledged they had, because he's James's brother/best friend/platonic boyfriend/partner in crime/inverse/other half/etc, and he's Lily's confidante and companion and fellow roller-of-eyes at James's various shenanigans. There's a reason he was made godfather and legal guardian.
Favorite headcanon:
That she and Sev co-developed the hacks and recipes and spells in the Prince's textbook.
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When Remus is telling Harry about spying on the werewolves he says "I bear the unmistakeable signs of having tried to live among wizards". What are these signs??
What do you think of when you imagine an average, colonized werewolf? Of someone who chooses or was forced to live on the fringes of society? Not Remus. Remus, who probably has clean clothes and is tame compared to the wild looks of the werewolves we encounter in book. But what might be a real, blatant giveaway, especially to someone who can spy? There are a couple of things that come to mind.
The first is that Remus has history among humans. Remus was bitten young, like Greyback is known to do serially. I would wager there are a lot of young people, but then a healthy collection of people who were bitten later in life and fell into misfortune rather than sprouting in it. These are people who would look visibly different from the traditional man on Diagon Alley. Remus would likely appear a bit healthier than they do, he would have an aversion to stealing, he would have clean clothes and his hair would be cut properly. He would have different mannerisms: he might knock before entering someoneâs space, he might choose to eat with a fork instead of just with his fingers. For all intents and purposes, Remus is like the fresh inmate: itâs both obvious to everyone because heâs new, and because he doesnât act the part. He doesnât look the part. And he couldnât: the social cues, the cultural rulesâthey all betray him as someone else, an outsider, until he learns.
Heâs educated, and people can tell. More than having gone to Hogwarts, which can be disguised as a childhood love of books, probablyâRemus is clever. Remus is knowledgeable, and well-learned. Thatâs obvious when he speaks. And without knowing his history, itâs reasonable to guess that he was brought up in an environment where those things in him were nurtured. A place very unlike the desolation of a colony.
Remus has a wand, and can do magic. In fact he may need to have kept this part of himself particularly well hidden, and may be the reason we see him able to use the flames in PoA (wandless spell, fire for survival?). Werewolves are hinted at having to steal and commit crimes to survive, something which is blamed on their savage nature but which is really more a side effect of their social status. If they serve a stint in Azkaban, what becomes of their wand? What happens to their wand when they transform? What happens when youâre bitten young, too young to get a wand, and you certainly wonât go to school? I suspect fully realized wizards and witches are a rarity among the colonies, and that things like potions are where they can excel at magic. Tonics for full moons, and such.
Perhaps scars have something to do with it too. Remus doesnât run with a pack for most of his life, and how do you expect a large population of werewolves to stay locked up when they havenât homes? I expect they run free in the countryside, far from people to bite unless theyâreâahemâotherwise motivated. Most want to stay out of that sort of trouble, though. But running with a pack provides stimulation, mental and physical, that Remus doesnât get in his monthly stints in solitary. It might become clear when he runs with them that heâs not used to this, both when in wolf form and in human.
Remus also advocates for humans, for the Ministry, for Dumbledoreâfor the society at large. He goes to the colonies with that purpose, but it helps that Remus believes what he says: that humans and werewolves can eventually coexist, and that working with Voldemort is a foolâs road. The general idea of werewolves weâre given is that theyâre bitter folk, and for good reason. But here is someone whoâs obviously from a better place, coming down to preach about how people who hate you can help you? Nah.
He also refers to himself as âa werewolfâ, but never says, âwe werewolvesâ. Itâs always âthe werewolves,â and âtheyâ. He doesnât consider himself one of them. He never does. He never did, and he never will. And no matter how good a spy he is, that sense of separation leaves little crumbs behind that others can detect, whether itâs the slight frown in his face when the werewolves talk about Dumbledore or about the visible rigidity in his spine when they talk about the idea of creating other werewolves.
Thatâs just from the top, so if anyone else thinks of something to add to this be my guest!
Vers. 1
I've tried to collect every relevant description of Lycanthropy or Werewolves in the books, to get a clear understanding of what this condition is, what it does, how it works and how it is seen.
There are also some of my own thoughts and theories in here - I'll try to make it clear what is my own thoughts and what is canon.
If I have missed anything please mention it. I'd like this to be a thorough exploration of the topic. I will edit the posts.
Part 1: Physical Symptoms of Lycanthropy
Part 2: Social Perception of Werewolves
Part 3: Regarding the 'Full Moon'...
(^In which I claim POA's transformation didn't happen on the Full Moon^)
Part 4: Long-Term Lycanthropy: The Case of Fenrir Greyback
Part 5: Wolfsbane vs Wolf - Theories of Treatments
Part 6: Pottermore and More
Part 7: Collected Summary
Note: Prisoner of Azkaban used is the Australian paperback from 2000.
I typed out every quote by hand, it sucked ass.
Order of the Pheonix, Half Blood Prince and Deathly Hallows were all from internet sources of American versions so I could copy and paste.
Other 'Meta'
How Powerful is Albus Dumbledore
Dumbledore Was Never Mean to Tom Riddle (Part 1)
How friendly were Sirius and Remus? (1971 - 1981) (part 1...?)
Meta I wanna do so I don't forget:
- Alastor Moody character study
- Centaur
- Vampires/Vampirism
- Pre-Statue of Secrecy Wizarding World
- What the fuck were you doing in book 1, Albus?
- Non-Human Spirituous Apparitions - Boggarts, Dementors, Poltergeists... and more...?
- Arthur Weasley character study (the best character in the books)
- Snape vs Lupin's teaching styles
Part 4: Long-Term Lycanthropy - The Case of Fenrir Greyback
Fenrir Greyback is an interesting figure. He is the only other named werewolf character, is wildly different from Remus... and gives us a broader view on what it is like to have Lycanthropy long-term.
Looking at Lycanthropy (all parts)
Words: Approx. 6000
Physical Symptoms (What he feels; what he does; what happens â factual.)
Perceived Symptoms (How he seems to others, health focused)
Social Perception (What people think of him; His social situation)
Self Perception (What he thinks about himself)
HALF BLOOD PRINCE
First I'll go through what Remus has to say about him:
Chapter 16
Pg 284/285/286
âOh, Iâve been underground,â said Lupin. âAlmost literally. Thatâs why I havenât been able to write, Harry; sending letters to you would have been something of a giveaway.â
âWhat do you mean?â
âIâve been living among my fellows, my equals,â said Lupin. âWerewolves,â he added, at Harryâs look of incomprehension. âNearly all of them are on Voldemortâs side. Dumbledore wanted a spy and here I was... ready-made.â
He sounded a little bitter, and perhaps realized it, for he smiled more warmly as he went on, âI am not complaining; it is necessary work and who can do it better than I? However, it has been difficult gaining their trust. I bear the unmistakable signs of having tried to live among wizards, you see, whereas they have shunned normal society and live on the margins, stealing â and sometimes killing â to eat.â
âHow come they like Voldemort?â
âThey think that, under his rule, they will have a better life,â said Lupin. âAnd it is hard to argue with Greyback out there â
âWhoâs Greyback?â
âYou havenât heard of him?â Lupinâs hands closed convulsively in his lap. âFenrir Greyback is, perhaps, the most savage werewolf alive today. He regards it as his mission in life to bite and to contaminate as many people as possible; he wants to create enough werewolves to overcome the wizards. Voldemort has promised him prey in return for his services. Greyback specializes in children... Bite them young, he says, and raise them away from their parents, raise them to hate normal wizards. Voldemort has threatened to unleash him upon peopleâs sons and daughters; it is a threat that usually produces good results.â Lupin paused and then said, âIt was Greyback who bit me.â
âWhat?â said Harry, astonished. âWhen â when you were a kid, you mean?â
âYes. My father had offended him. I did not know, for a very long time, the identity of the werewolf who had attacked me; I even felt pity for him, thinking that he had had no control, knowing by then how it felt to transform. But Greyback is not like that. At the full moon, he positions himself close to victims, ensuring that he is near enough to strike. He plans it all. And this is the man Voldemort is using to marshal the werewolves. I cannot pretend that my particular brand of reasoned argument is making much headway against Greybackâs insistence that we werewolves deserve blood, that we ought to revenge ourselves on normal people.â
Werewolf recap:
Werewolves live 'almost literally underground' â separated, shunning society. They struggle to survive, even stealing and killing to eat.
Sending letters isn't done â probably both due to lack of basic education and outside contact.
Everyone knows Fenrir Greyback. His word amongst werewolves is golden.
Nearly all werewolves are on Voldemort's side, thinking he can give them a better life.
- Voldemort supplies Fenrir with prime prey in return for his savagery.
(Is that all he plans werewolves to be in society...? A punishment force? That's more than they have now, I suppose...)
- Fenrir is 'the most savage werewolf alive today'
- Fenrir wants to overtake wizarding society by creating more werewolves. He bites children and takes them from their parents to raise away from society thus likely low education in werewolves.
- Fenrir bit Remus as a punishment for his fathers prejudice.
- Fenrir 'positions himself close to victims' at the full moon. So even he doesn't have full control, but plans accordingly to ensure results.
- Fenrir believes werewolves deserve blood for the treatment they have faced. (after seeing what Remus goes through - honestly, yeah.)
These werewolf 'enclaves' seem cult-like: Fenrir's opinion is king.
You aren't allowed to have contact with other people else you are shunned â and people are brought in young, raised with these beliefs.
From this text we can also gather some personal facts about Fenrir:
- He was likely an adult before he bit Remus â so he would be... 50, at the absolute youngest now. Probably more like 60, even 70.
- He was a proud werewolf back then too â unless he was simply sick of the prejudice to the point of wanting others to suffer it.
- He was not child-stealing yet. He left Remus with his parents. That is a more recent development.
- No mention of others also positioning themselves to bite children, even on Fenrir's behalf - does he alone do it...?
Fenrir Greyback, so far, seems like a driven and influential figure.
A household name famed for his savagery and shocking ideals:
A werewolf that takes pride in his Lycanthropy and will punish society for being so bigoted. 'If they think of us as monsters â then I'll be the monster they fear.'
Honestly? Punk as fuck. Grandpa's an icon.
Chapter 27
pg 500/501
âJokes? No, no, these are manners,â replied Dumbledore.
âDo it,â said the stranger standing nearest to Harry, a big, rangy man with matted gray hair and whiskers, whose black Death Eaterâs robes looked uncomfortably tight. He had a voice like none that Harry had ever heard: a rasping bark of a voice. Harry could smell a powerful mixture of dirt, sweat, and, unmistakably, blood coming from him. His filthy hands had long yellowish nails.
âIs that you, Fenrir?â asked Dumbledore.
âThatâs right,â rasped the other. âPleased to see me, Dumbledore?â
âNo, I cannot say that I am.âGreyback grinned, showing pointed teeth. Blood trickled down his chin and he licked his lips slowly, obscenely.
âBut you know how much I like kids, Dumbledore.â
âAm I to take it that you are attacking even without the full moon now? This is most unusual... You have developed a taste for human flesh that cannot be satisfied once a month?ââThatâs right,â said Fenrir Greyback. âShocks you that, does it, Dumbledore? Frightens you?ââWell, I cannot pretend it does not disgust me a little,â said Dumbledore. âAnd, yes, I am a little shocked that Draco here invited you, of all people, into the school where his friends liveâŚââI didnât,â breathed Malfoy. He was not looking at Fenrir; he did not seem to want to even glance at him. âI didnât know he was going to come ââ
âI wouldnât want to miss a trip to Hogwarts, Dumbledore,â rasped Greyback. âNot when there are throats to be ripped out Delicious, deliciousâŚâAnd he raised a yellow fingernail and picked at his front teeth, leering at Dumbledore. âI could do you for afters, Dumbledore.â
- Big, Rangy, Tight clothes (muscles?)
- Matted grey hair and whiskers
- Rasping voice; Unique and barking rasp
- Smells of Dirt, Sweat and Blood
- Pointed teeth; Yellow fingernails
- Eats and enjoys blood. Obscenely â at least while being watched.
- Wants to shock.
- Enjoys human flesh, even outside the Full Moon.
- Ripping out throats is 'delicious', young or old (young better) â could be playing it up to shock, but I think he's being honest.
- Dumbledore regards him as disgusting â an 'obvious' danger to kids in a school. (he is right)
- Draco, a pureblood, is ashamed of him. Disgusted. (he is right)- Draco was told Death Eaters would come, supposedly â so he didn't expect Fenrir to be included. In Draco's mind at the very least, Frenrir is a different classification despite being so closely involved.
- Albus called pretty much everyone by their First Name - but there is a level of familiarity between them. I wonder if Albus taught him at Hogwarts before he was bitten? Or if have they just clashed before?
pg 502
âIâll do it,â snarled Fenrir, moving toward Dumbledore with his hands outstretched, his teeth bared.
âI said no!â shouted the brutal-faced man; there was a flash of light and the werewolf was blasted out of the way; he hit the ramparts and staggered, looking furious.
- Eager to kill, with his hands and teeth rather than a wand.
- Warded off with a spell unharmed â just staggered and angered.
- Non-werewolf Death Eater is someone he had to listen to.... but was allowed to feel angry with.
pg 505
As Harry plunged after them, one of the fighters detached themselves from the fray and flew at him: It was the werewolf, Fenrir. He was on top of Harry before Harry could raise his wand: Harry fell backward, with filthy matted hair in his face, the stench of sweat and blood filling his nose and mouth, hot greedy breath at his throatââPetrificus Totalus!âHarry felt Fenrir collapse against him; with a stupendous effort he pushed the werewolf off and onto the floor as a jet of green light came flying toward him; he ducked and ran, headfirst, into the fight.
- Fast. Strong. Could knock Harry down.
- Filthy matted hair; Stinky with blood but also sweat â he hasn't just had a long hard day of work, he doesn't bathe enough.
- Greedy for Harry's throat. Yummy yummy.
- Affected by Petrificus Totalus
- Heavy. Probably because all of his muscles and massive balls.
~~~
DEATHLY HALLOWS
Chapter 23
pg 388/389
âYour boyfriendâs going to have worse than that done to him if heâs on my list,â said the horribly familiar, rasping voice. âDelicious girl... What a treat... I do enjoy the softness of the skinâŚâ
Harryâs stomach turned over. He knew who this was: Fenrir Greyback, the werewolf who was permitted to wear Death Eater robes in return for his hired savagery.
- Soft skin is preferred for throat ripping.
Probably young female skin â so its an mental thing rather than a physical, unless he also likes young male skin. Either way a fetish.
- 'permitted to wear Death Eater robes' â he isn't a Death Eater.
- The ability to 'wear Death Eater robes' is a transactional thing.
pg 389
âNow, letâs see who weâve got,â said Greybackâs gloating voice from overhead, and Harry was rolled over onto his back. A beam of wandlight fell into his face and Greyback laughed.
âIâll be needing butterbeer to wash this one down. What happened to you, ugly?â
Harry did not answer immediately.
âI said,â repeated Greyback, and Harry received a blow to the diaphragm that made him double over in pain, âwhat happened to you?â
pg 391
âIt is you! If they find out who theyâve got â! Theyâre Snatchers, theyâre only looking for truants to sell for gold ââ
âNot a bad little haul for one night,â Greyback was saying, as a pair of hobnailed boots marched close by Harry and they heard more crashes from inside the tent. âA Mudblood, a runaway goblin, and three truants. You checked their names on the list yet, Scabior?â he roared.
âYeah. Thereâs no Vernon Dudley on âere, Greyback.â
âInteresting,â said Greyback. âThatâs interesting.â
He makes jokes about eating (or at least savaging) people. Ripping their throats. It's casual. He really likes what he does.
But while Voldemort is offering a better life for werewolves (not hard), and Greyback himself is allowed to 'wear Death Eater robes' for his influence and services, invited to events like the murder of Dumbledore... he is still just a snatcher, scraping vagrants for cash.
He crouched down beside Harry, who saw, through the infinitesimal gap left between his swollen eyelids, a face covered in matted gray hair and whiskers, with pointed brown teeth and sores at the corners of his mouth. Greyback smelled as he had done at the top of the tower where Dumbledore had died: of dirt, sweat, and blood.
His face has matted grey hair; Whiskers; Pointed teeth are brown; sores at the corners of his mouth (probably from opening wide to rip throats â maybe also some poor mouth hygiene).
Dirt added to his smell along with sweat and blood.
pg 392
âWell, well,â said Greyback, and Harry could hear the tiniest note of trepidation in that callous voice, and knew that Greyback was wondering whether he had indeed just attacked and bound the son of a Ministry official. Harryâs heart was pounding against the ropes around his ribs; he would not have been surprised to know that Greyback could see it.
Huh...? See his heart pounding? Is this 'see his fear' â or literally see his heart...?
I don't wanna sound dumb, taking something too seriously â but with all the blood-love and the animal themes and magical curse stuff I don't wanna ignore the possibility completely. I'll just mostly ignore it.
More importantly: Despite 'wearing Death Eater robes' and all that â he is worried he may have attacked a Ministry official's son.
Would the other Death Eaters present at Dumbledores murder give a shit about that, while trying to do their job...? I doubt it.
Fenrir is a strong, proud man with some higher level of permissions and respect: and yet he has reason to fear small mistakes like 'Snatching a Ministry officials' wayward, rulebreaking son'.
pg 393
âWhatâs that on your forehead, Vernon?â he asked softly, his breath foul in Harryâs nostrils as he pressed a filthy finger to the taut scar.
pg 394
âTo hell with the Ministry,â growled Greyback. âTheyâll take the credit, and we wonât get a look in. I say we take him straight to You-Know-Who.ââWill you summon âim? âere?â said Scabior, sounding awed, terrified.âNo,â snarled Greyback, âI havenât got â they say heâs using the Malfoysâ place as a base. Weâll take the boy there.â
Harry thought he knew why Greyback was not calling Voldemort. The werewolf might be allowed to wear Death Eater robes when they wanted to use him, but only Voldemortâs inner circle were branded with the Dark Mark: Greyback had not been granted this highest honor.
...He hasn't told his Snatcher crew he isn't a Death Eater proper.
That he doesn't have the mark.
He hasn't told them. Scabior is awed that Voldemort might be called there, right then, by Fenrir Greyback the Werewolf... but he can't do it, and he doesn't wanna say he can't. Bless.
Note that the Ministry, full of Voldemort's people, will not respect Fenrir Greyback. The fact he is worried about their credit being successfully taken means Voldemort won't respect his word either.
Rewarding Fenrir appropriately for his high service is unimportant.
â... completely sure itâs him? âCause if it ainât, Greyback, weâre dead.ââWhoâs in charge here?â roared Greyback, covering his moment of inadequacy. âI say thatâs Potter, and him plus his wand, thatâs two hundred thousand Galleons right there! But if youâre too gutless to come along, any of you, itâs all for me, and with any luck, Iâll get the girl thrown in!â
Fenrir values his authority and power. He won't accept anyone underneath him questioning him, and he will claw at any foothold he has to gain more respect... even if it means hiding the truth.
But I want to point out his language to his underlings: He is inclusive.
'They'll take the credit, and WE don't get a look in.''WE'LL take the boy there.''If YOU'RE too gutless to come along, ANY of you, it's all for me'He might be the one in charge â but they will ALL benefit.
He is jeering about taking the spoils for himself as a rallying cry, encouraging others to come with him rather than let him have it all.
They are scared of being punished for failure, but even though he would also be punished if they are wrong: he wants everyone he works with to benefit and he is willing to take that risk.
No wonder people follow him as a leader.
pg 395
âGrab hold and make it tight. Iâll do Potter!â said Greyback, seizing a fistful of Harryâs hair; Harry could feel his long yellow nails scratching his scalp. âOn three! One â two â three ââ
They Disapparated, pulling the prisoners with them.
His yellow nails are also long. Nice.
pg 396
âWhat is this?â said a womanâs cold voice.
âWeâre here to see He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named!â rasped Greyback.âWho are you?ââYou know me!â There was resentment in the werewolfâs voice. âFenrir Greyback! Weâve caught Harry Potter!â
These little shits. 'Who are you' fuck off, as if you could mistake Fenrir's rasping. The sheer lack of respect, for someone so loyal and hardworking... because he is a werewolf.
pg 398
âBut look at him carefully, look! Come closer!â
Harry had never heard Lucius Malfoy so excited.
âDraco, if we are the ones who hand Potter over to the Dark Lord, everything will be forgiv ââ
âNow, we wonât be forgetting who actually caught him, I hope, Mr. Malfoy?â said Greyback menacingly.âOf course not, of course not!â said Lucius impatiently.
Growling over his hunt... I don't blame him, he has a lot to lose and, in his mind at least - a lot to gain. Not that Voldemort or the Death Eaters will ever give him any respect, even for catching Harry.
He speaks extremely politely to Lucius â and Lucius is... polite enough back. Even if he isn't respected and they crack jokes at his expense... it seems they don't regard him like utter shit.
He will get his name on this job... probably.
pg 400
âYou lost your authority when you lost your wand, Lucius! How dare you! Take your hands off me!â
âThis is nothing to do with you, you did not capture the boy ââ
âBegging your pardon, Mr. Malfoy,â interjected Greyback, âbut itâs us that caught Potter, and itâs us thatâll be claiming the gold ââ
âGold!â laughed Bellatrix, still attempting to throw off her brother-in-law, her free hand groping in her pocket for her wand. âTake your gold, filthy scavenger, what do I want with gold? I seek only the honor of his â of ââ
Fenrir is so damn polite to the Death Eaters, even to Lucius â who doesn't have a wand. He ranks under them all.
He is also still referring to himself as 'us'. Even now his group of Snatchers will share the rewards, though he could pull rank and take everything himself. Potter is a damn good prize but he truly wants to benefit everyone â even though they don't seem to be werewolves.
He isn't so much anti-wizard as he is anti-ruling-class. The downtrodden are his people.
pg 400/401
âSword,â grunted an out-of-sight Snatcher. âGive it to me.â
âItâs not yorn, missus, itâs mine, I reckon I found it.â There was a bang and a flash of red light: Harry knew that the Snatcher had been Stunned. There was a roar of anger from his fellows: Scabior drew his wand.
âWhat dâyou think youâre playing at, woman?â
âStupefy!â she screamed. âStupefy!â
They were no match for her, even though there were four of them against one of her: She was a witch, as Harry knew, with prodigious skill and no conscience. They fell where they stood, all except Greyback, who had been forced into a kneeling position, his arms outstretched. Out of the corners of his eyes Harry saw Bellatrix bearing down upon the werewolf, the sword of Gryffindor gripped tightly in her hand, her face waxen.
âWhere did you get this sword?â she whispered to Greyback as she pulled his wand out of his unresisting grip.âHow dare you?â he snarled, his mouth the only thing that could move as he was forced to gaze up at her. He bared his pointed teeth. âRelease me, woman!â
âWhere did you find this sword?â she repeated, brandishing it in his face. âSnape sent it to my vault in Gringotts!â
âIt was in their tent,â rasped Greyback. âRelease me, I say!â
She waved her wand, and the werewolf sprang to his feet, but appeared too wary to approach her. He prowled behind an armchair, his filthy curved nails clutching its back.
His long, yellow nails are also filthy and curved. He prowls when wary and defeated. He snarls and bares his teeth.
Bellatrix' Stupefy's were enough to knock down the other Snatchers completely â but reduce Greyback to his knees. It is possible she was going easy on him so he could talk.
Greyback has enough standing with the Death Eaters to talk back to a high-ranking member when he feels slighted.
He isn't forced to be entirely passive: allowed to bark and snap.
pg 402
âIf she dies under questioning, Iâll take you next,â she said. âBlood traitor is next to Mudblood in my book. Take them downstairs, Greyback, and make sure they are secure, but do nothing more to them â yet.â
She threw Greybackâs wand back to him, then took a short silver knife from under her robes.
She cut Hermione free from the other prisoners, then dragged her by the hair into the middle of the room, while Greyback forced the rest of them to shuffle across to another door, into a dark passageway, his wand held out in front of him, projecting an invisible and irresistible force.âReckon sheâll let me have a bit of the girl when sheâs finished with her?â Greyback crooned as he forced them along the corridor. âIâd say Iâll get a bite or two, wouldnât you, ginger?â
Harry could feel Ron shaking. They were forced down a steep flight of stairs, still tied back-to-back and in danger of slipping and breaking their necks at any moment. At the bottom was a heavy door. Greyback unlocked it with a tap of his wand, then forced them into a dank and musty room and left them in total darkness.
Bellatrix definitely outranks him, no big surprise there â and despite his recent tone trusts him with his wand, which he is skilled enough with to cast multiple wordless, even movement-less spells.
Fenrir once again living his best life: enjoying shocking people with his savagery and enjoying the idea of soft young girly skin. Lovely.
He mentions getting a bite or two â I find it interesting that he doesn't seem to want to 'eat' people or tear them to pieces.
He wants to take bites.
This lines up with what we know about werewolves rarely killing people, instead trying to infect them and have them survive.
Now â I don't doubt he mainly kills people in his human form: He likes to rip throats. But I wonder if the 'bite or two' comment is literal, rather than being funny: He enjoys biting but leaving them whole.
A werewolf instinct, that tells them to 'stop' after a little damage.
We know an instinct for blood and raw flesh leaks through to the human form...
pg 410
âCissy, I think we ought to tie these little heroes up again, while Greyback takes care of Miss Mudblood. I am sure the Dark Lord will not begrudge you the girl, Greyback, after what you have done tonight.â
He gets treat for being such a good boy :) Yippee!
Do they hold off on giving him treats...? This, and how hopeful he is, suggests they don't give him treats often.
'He won't begrudge you the girl' he caught Harry fucking Potter and all he can hope for is to bite the girl â rather than like... be accepted as a real Death Eater.
pg 411
As Ron ran to pull Hermione out of the wreckage, Harry took his chance: He leapt over an armchair and wrested the three wands from Dracoâs grip, pointed all of them at Greyback, and yelled, âStupefy!â The werewolf was lifted off his feet by the triple spell, flew up to the ceiling, and then smashed to the ground.
So he wasn't hit as hard by a single Bellatrix stupefy â but three wrong-wand Harry Stupefy's...
I'm recording these to try and get a grasp on how sturdy he is, but it's unclear lol.
Chapter 32
pg 555
Two bodies fell from the balcony overhead as they reached the ground, and a gray blur that Harry took for an animal sped four-legged across the hall to sink its teeth into one of the fallen.âNO!â shrieked Hermione, and with a deafening blast from her wand, Fenrir Greyback was thrown backward from the feebly stirring body of Lavender Brown. He hit the marble banisters and struggled to return to his feet. Then, with a bright white flash and a crack, a crystal ball fell on top of his head, and he crumpled to the ground and did not move.
Moves like an animal, on all fours â despite it not being a full moon.
More confirmation that he is unafraid to sink his brown pointed teeth into people non-transformed. especially a 'delicious' young girl with soft skin.
Blown back by a single spell, as we have seen before, but was able to move and be angry afterwards.
Crystal Ball took him out... but I feel like that'd kill most regular people? I know Wizards are hardier than Muggles but jesus christ he's hardly getting much medical attention out there
Chapter 33
pg 586
âYou alone know whether it will harm your soul to help an old man avoid pain and humiliation,â said Dumbledore. âI ask this one great favor of you, Severus, because death is coming for me as surely as the Chudley Cannons will finish bottom of this yearâs league. I confess I should prefer a quick, painless exit to the protracted and messy affair it will be if, for instance, Greyback is involved â I hear Voldemort has recruited him? Or dear Bellatrix, who likes to play with her food before she eats it.â
I'm sure Dumbledore being an icon for equality and hope and compassion would make up for him not having soft young girl skin on his throat.
Isn't that Ron's favourite team? Albus you're savage
Chapter 34
pg 602
Harry saw Fenrir, skulking, chewing his long nails;
He is nervous at the non-arrival of Harry. At Voldemort's potential reaction to it. Fair enough â but if he was going to lash out I'm sure Greyback would be one of the first picks.
Chapter 36
pg 630
He saw Ron and Neville bringing down Fenrir Greyback,
R.I.P. Stinky, you were iconic.
~~~
SUMMARY OF THIS PART:
Fenrir Greyback is extremely identifiable as a werewolf, even when not transformed:
Filthy matted grey hair - even on his face, with whiskers.
His teeth are brown and pointed, sores at the corners of his mouth - probably from ripping throats.
Long, curved, yellowed fingernails that are as dirty as the rest of him. Stinking of sweat, blood and dirt.
His voice is a unique rasping bark. He snarls and bares his teeth when angry, prowls when wary - skulks when afraid.
He is fast and strong, running out of the fray to knock Harry down and go for his throat. He can move like an animal on all fours, fast enough to look like a grey blur. As he was most likely an adult when he bit Remus - that puts his age at at least 50 now, probably older... yet he is agile, rangy, big, strong - and heavy. I'd say due to muscles.
Basic stunning spells stagger him but just make him angrier.
Spells that had 'regular' people down-for-the-count forced him to his knees, but he kept his rage and his sobriety.
Petrificus Totalus worked on him - but it's unclear for how long.
Three Stupefy's from three wands Harry was holding was enough to throw him against the ceiling.
A crystal ball to the head knocked him out - but didn't kill him. He was awake and well hours later.
This all suggests he could be a little hardier to magic than the average wizard, but whether its due to Lycanthropy or the fact he is a badass is unclear.
He is a decent Wizard himself: skilled enough with to cast multiple wordless, even movement-less spells.
It is possible he can 'see' or 'sense' people's hearts pounding, related to his love of blood... but likely not.It's also possible that his werewolf instincts to only bite their prey to infect, leaving them alive, leaks into his non-transformed desire to rip and maul. That is also unclear.
What is clear, however, is Fenrir's pride as a werewolf.
Fenrir Greyback is a household name:
'the most savage werewolf alive.'
It is obscene how much he loves blood.
How much he enjoys shocking people with his brutality.
He threatens and cracks jokes about ripping out throats, about his preference for biting delicious, soft, young girl skin.
But he isn't too picky. He will tear out anyone's throat, with pleasure.
Eager to kill with his teeth over his wand.
It's not a bluff to scare: it's a promise.
Albus regards him as disgusting, an obvious danger to the school.
He enjoys human flesh even outside of the Full Moon, relishing it like a fetish. Even Albus' throat, despite being the opposite of a young girl... though the fact he was an icon for equality, hope and compassion probably sweetened the deal.
Because Fenrir isn't just doing this for self gratification.
His pride runs deeper than his fur.
He believes werewolves deserve blood for the treatment they have faced by Wizarding society. They are all Wizards and Witches, after all... but we know that they are hardly classified or treated as such.
Segregated, called 'Half-Breeds', treated as monsters - disallowed from school or most jobs.
Most werewolves live 'almost literally underground' - so far away from society that they rarely have contact. They struggle to survive, stealing and even killing just to eat.
It's very likely most of them are uneducated, both due to not being able to attend Hogwarts - and perhaps Greyback's own actions, having them raised with other uneducated werewolves.
His word is law amongst Werewolves. He is highly respected and loyally followed. He is a leader. If he says Voldemort can give them a better life by restructuring Wizarding society - they believe him.
Like a cult: werewolves shun even other werewolves that have grown up amongst Wizarding society. Sending letters to family or friends is a 'giveaway' - merely having grown up outside of werewolf communes a red flag.
It's likely most of them have grown up separated from Wizarding society after all, as part of Fenrir's plans:
He carefully plans and positions himself close to victims before the Full Moon - intending to bite children, even if he doesn't have full control. The child is raised away from their parents, amongst 'their own kind'... to one day have enough werewolves in the world to overtake Wizarding society.
(There is no mention of other werewolves assisting in this goal - Is he highly selective? Or is nobody else as adept at being a werewolf...?)
He didn't always do it - Remus was bitten 30 or so years ago as a form of punishment for his father's bigotry to werewolves, and he was left with his family.
Back then Greyback wasn't a household name. This plan to raise a cult-army of werewolves is a more recent development.
But Greyback isn't doing it to be cruel, or make himself a king:
He is pack-minded.
He enjoys being top-dog and giving orders but he has the well-being of his underlings on his mind.
When he has glory, riches and standing to gain - he willingly encourages those who look up to him to benefit from the boon, too. He hypes them up. He doesn't expect them to walk into any danger he himself wouldn't walk beside them for.
Even when they aren't werewolves.
It seems he isn't so much anti-Wizard as he is anti-ruling-class... until the ruling class are werewolves, anyway.
But for now the downtrodden are his people.
However he didn't tell the Snatchers he didn't have a Dark Mark. He kept that hidden, acted like he did have one.
Does he suspect they will lose respect for him as a werewolf if he isn't marked? Or is he embarrassed? Either way - he does enjoy his authority over them, though doesn't abuse it.
Unlike the Death Eaters treatment of him.
Voldemort supplies him with prime prey - the children of those who defy him, perhaps some others to tear apart - in return for his unique services.
He is 'permitted to wear Death Eater robes' to serve Voldemort well.
He is invited as muscle to events as high-status and prestigious as the murder of Dumbledore.
But he is not a Death Eater. He doesn't have a mark.
Which seems a little ridiculous considering the fact he has an army of werewolves loyal to him and thus Voldemort.
...but he is just kept as a Snatcher, scraping for cash. Worrying about getting 'good hauls'...
He worries about things like tying up a Ministry Official's wayward, rule-breaking son while doing his job.
He growls protectively over his hunts. He expects credit for catching Potter to be stolen... which means Voldemort won't listen to him.
He can plea and be ignored.
The Death Eaters will never give him real respect.
He is told, after catching Potter, his wand, his friends, the Sword of griffindor... that the Dark Lord 'won't begrudge him the girl'.
For anyone else such a deed would get them a mark.
He is a dog to them.
Draco won't look at him. He was told Death Eaters would come when he killed Dumbledore - he didn't expect Greyback to be there.
Lucius, even without his wand, ranks higher than him. They crack jokes at his expense, saying 'Who?' when he asks for entry - and he takes it. He accepts it and speaks to them with high respect.
The best they speak to him back is with basic politeness.
He isn't a complete bitch. He is allowed to get angry, to snap, to stand up for himself. But he is seen as a 'filthy scavenger'.
He isn't part of them. A different 'animal', with different needs and ideals... a tool.
A trusted tool, sure - Bellatrix gives him back his wand even after he has talked back to her - but he is the bottom of the pecking order no matter what he is, says or does.
When Harry didn't show up to be killed by Voldemort he was skulking. Biting his nails. Nervous. I'm sure if the Dark Lord lashed out... he would probably be the first to feel his wrath.
Understanding Werewolf Trauma in the Wizarding World
Every few weeks someone online looks at Harry Potter and decides that Remus Lupin was:
⢠âcoldâ for not checking on Harry;
⢠âexaggeratingâ about Tonksâ parents being "disgusted" by their marriage;
⢠or âselfishâ for pushing people away;
And every time I have to ask:
Do you people actually understand what being a werewolf meant in canon?
Because the books and Pottermore are very clear. Youâre just choosing not to read them.
1. âWhy didnât Remus check on Harry with the Dursleys?â
Why would he? Do you realize what it meant to have any connection to a werewolf?
Remus:
⢠would rather live in extreme poverty than with his beloved dad because he didn't want to be a burden to him;
⢠never maintained any close relationships (even with the Marauders, we see that he's never mentioned as one by the teachers or Madam Rosmerta, which hints us that he wasn't seen by others as being that close to them);
⢠never allowed himself to love anyone untill Tonks popped into his world and he couldn't run away (they were working together for the Order, and â what is worse! â everyone from the Order was even implied to be living in Grimmauld Place);
⢠spent his entire life isolating himself on purpose;
Even with Tonks, the only person he ever loved, he resisted until he broke down. And when he found out she was pregnant, he didnât react with joy. He had a mental collapse.
He called himself a creature. He almost tore his own hair out. He tried to run away. He was absolutely dustressed. Thatâs trauma.
Remus knew from lived experience that anyone attached to a werewolf would be dragged into danger, poverty, prejudice, and social exile.
Why on earth would he willingly subject Harry into that???
2. âBut Harry was suffering, someone shouldâve checked on him!â
And someone did. Mrs. Figg.
Dumbledore, McGonagall, Hagrid and Mrs. Figg knew where Harry was. But they were heavily implied to be the only ones to know.
And notice something important? Only Mrs. Figg was allowed to check on him.
Why? Because she wasnât magical. Nothing she did would raise suspicion. If wizards were freely coming and going, the protections wouldâve been compromised.
If that werenât the case, wouldnât Hagrid have shown up? Even once?
Remus didnât stay away because he didnât care. He stayed away because he cared too much and because he wasn't allowed to come near Harry (plus, he probably didn't even know where Harry was)!
3. âRemus was exaggerating about Tonksâ parentsâ
No. He wasnât. The author never puts words in someone's mouth unless they really mean something.
Imagine this: You have a brilliant, vibrant daughter, with a promising career. Sheâs an Auror, one of the most respected jobs in the wizarding world. And then she marries a werewolf, a social pariah.
So, suddenly:
⢠she becomes an outcast;
⢠sheâs hunted by the Ministry;
⢠she has to run from Scrimgeour, the Minister for Magic, her boss (and the same man who used to lead the Auror Department, so he knew her well), which means she loses her job;
⢠she becomes a direct target for Bellatrix;
Tonks risked (and lost) everything just by marrying Remus.
Thatâs not exaggeration. Thatâs canon consequence.
Why Remus rejected Tonks (and everyone else)?
Because he was the only one who truly understood what being a werewolf meant.
He had watched his beloved parents (who were wonderful parents, no matter what fanfiction says about them):
⢠live in fear;
⢠face constant prejudice;
⢠suffer socially and economically;
All because they loved him.
That guilt shaped his entire life. Thatâs his arc!!
Thatâs why he kept people at armâs length, that's why he believed he was unworthy of love that's why he thought others (including Tonks, Teddy and Harry!!) would be âway better offâ (his own words) without him!
He didn't kept Tonks, Teddy or Harry at arm's length because he didnât love them. But because he loved them so much that he thought sacrificing himself was the kinder choice. He sacrificed himself for... the greater good (sounds familiar?)
Remus Lupin is not a neglectful coward. He is a deeply traumatized man shaped by systemic oppression, internalized stigma, and survivorâs guilt.
If you reduce his actions to âhe shouldâve tried harder,â youâre not understanding the character all (while you probably defend characters like Sirius or Snape, because you cared to try to understand them); Youâre erasing the very tragedy that defines him.
ohhh iâve been waiting for this one đ¤ r/s number 20 pls đ¤đŤś
20. youâre in a car with a beautiful boy and you're trying not to tell him that you love him.
(i am so sorry in advance for this one lol)
"they asked me to be the godfather," sirius says, and remus grips the steering wheel like it's the only thing he's ever wanted to strangle.
"oh."
it all makes much more sense now. the whiskey. the cigarette ash on his breath. the bruise staining his neck. the undone buttons of his shirt.
just once--just once--remus wishes james knew when to keep his mouth shut. doesn't understand how he could spend half his life with the brightest star in the sky and still not see how it shines. this is the wedding all over again, sirius drinking himself half to death over a stupid speech and still scraping himself out of the gutter to be james' best man.
always james' best man.
sometimes, remus honestly doesn't know which one of them he hates more.
"gonna be sick," sirius mumbles, face all smashed against the window, "rem--gonna--"
"okay, okay, hang on--"
the road's empty, but remus pulls all the way over anyway, leaves the engine running and the headlights on while he jumps out, circles the front, gets the door open just in time for vomit to splatter onto the dirt. it flecks his shoes, the cuffs of his jeans. remus sighs. remus tucks the hair away from sirius' face, and hates himself for the horrible way his heart twists at every point of contact between his fingertips and the other boy's skin. he keeps telling himself that one day it won't matter. he keeps telling himself that one day he'll feel less.
he wonders how many years sirius has been telling himself the exact same thing.
"fuck," sirius groans, and remus asks where are you going and sirius says need t'lie down and remus says wait, just--wait and he's got an arm around sirius' waist, he's guiding him away from the vomit, he is keeping at least one of them un-stained. sirius is stumbling back, trying to heave himself into the bed of the truck. remus helps. remus follows him. he always does.
there's still an old blanket, crumpled in the corner. sirius doesn't seem to notice when remus lays it out, but he does it anyway, guiding the other boy onto something more forgiving than cold metal. they lie side by side, staring at stars. from this angle, remus can't see the bruise on sirius' neck. he can almost pretend it's not there, or at least that he doesn't know how he got it. sirius will bury himself in the body of anyone willing to be his grave, and they all know that, even james.
james just hasn't managed to figure out that he's the shovel.
"no moon tonight," sirius mumbles. remus touches him again, moves a lock of hair from his eyes.
"no."
he lets his fingertips linger, just a second. in the morning, sirius won't remember this anyway.
"got you, though," sirius says, and it comes out half-sigh, "moony. always got you."
"yeah," remus whispers, "you've always got me."
sirius turns to look at him, and even with eyes all liquor-glazed and blinking it's the sort of look that pins him, a butterfly to a board.
"did you ever love someone, remus?" sirius asks.
you idiot, remus doesn't say, you beautiful, impossible idiot.
maybe one day, he'll crash the truck, just so they can both feel the same thing at the same time.
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i think siriusâ canon approval of dumbledore is an interesting piece of characterisation. very often in fic i see him being written as rebelling against the old man but canonically he obeys his every word, even if he doesnât personally agree đ¤ in gof heâs convinced that snape, a man he loathes, is probably not up to something nefarious because dumbledore trusts him. in ootp, he HATES being stuck in grimmauld place but he obeys dumbledoreâs orders to the T. when harry tells him he thinks he attacked arthur weasley, sirius only questions whether dumbledore is aware of this, before brushing it off
#itâs clear to me that he deeply respects the man#which is again super interesting#because common fanon portrayal of sirius is this rebel rule breaker lothario kinda guy#but he truly trusts dumbledore. even after 12 years in azkaban#sirius black#albus dumbledore#gof live blog
I think fanon really misses the practical side of sirius. he understands the consequences of his actions and is prepared to live with them. unhappiness and discomfort is his stasis. but the consequences of him disobeying dumbledore would not affect only sirius, but the whole order. they'd affect harry.
sirius has no problem deciding to sacrifice his comfort or happiness or even sanity for other's sakes. he has no problem doing it just for a personal thrill. when he says "the risk would have made it fun for james" he is speaking only about the risk to himself, not to harry.
sirius' rebellious attitude comes from his abuse. his practical side comes from his abuse as well. he learned how to look at the facts of a shitty situation with no good optionsâobey horrible parents and hurt inside, maybe even hurt others one day, or disobey horrible parents and hurt now. dumbledore is offering a similar choice, except if sirius obeys he is the only one getting hurt. what a good deal!
logically, dumbledore is the best leader to oppose voldemort. the best course of action is, therefore, to follow dumbledore.
I imagine that before wands were popularized, different magical cultures likely used innate, environmental, ancestral or ritualistic forms of magic. Wands arrive as a âsuperior,â âefficient,â âcivilizedâ tool, completely mirroring how colonizers frame their tech and culture, and once wand use becomes standardized (under European dominance), it becomes the metric for what âproperâ magic is. Itâs like a classic colonizer move: redefine the standard so the colonized never quite measure up.
I can see wands existing as instruments of surveillance, to track and record wand bearers. If we look at canon we see that The Ministry can trace spells, that wand registration exists, that underage magic is tracked via wands and that muggleborns need documentation about their wand status (and are suspected without one). This echoes real-world issues where colonizers impose paperwork, IDs, âpermits,â licenses⌠Wands give the Ministry the power to know who you are, what you can do, what magic youâre capable of, when you break laws⌠So if you come from a magical tradition without wands, youâre suddenly invisible, illegible and therefore illegal.
Because of that, wandless magic would be considered âprimitiveâ, âwildâ and âdangerousâ. This is exactly how colonizers treat any practice outside their norm. Elves can perform wandless magic with terrifying skill, so their use of wands is banned. Goblins have their own magical lore, so the wandmakers keep that knowledge proprietary and exclude them. Even wizard-on-wizard discrimination exists (Western wandmaking superiority mythos). The entire hierarchy is created around wand access, not magical ability. Itâs not that non-wand cultures have âlesserâ magic, itâs that the system is built to invalidate them.
I also see a relation between wands and industrialization and commercialization of the innate. Magic used to be craft, ritual, birthright, relationship with land, energy. Then wands turn it into products, brands, patents, trade secrets, regulated commodities. It literally mirrors the industrial revolution, with something natural becoming standardized, mass-produced and commercialized. Wand cores are harvested, trees are cut for wand wood, ecosystems are commodified. Magic becomes a consumer good.
Wands can also be seen as a cultural erasure weapon. For many communities, magic done with hands, through song, nature and ancestral rites would carry spiritual meaning. But wizards, especially European ones, invalidate that, create a monoculture of wand magic and enforce it through Ministry law. Thatâs not just colonization, itâs cultural genocide.
We can imagine social implications as the divide between âcivilizedâ wand users and âprimitiveâ wandless ones, wizard supremacy ideology brewed not just from blood purity but method purity, power defined by conformity, not ability, education systems that erase non-wand magic (Hogwarts teaches nothing else), a Ministry that claims to âprotectâ lesser magical cultures but actually suppresses them.
And the ultimate irony is that the most powerful magic we see in the Wizarding World are Lilyâs sacrifice, ancient enchantments, goblin lore, house-elf magic, wandless magic in extremis, parseltongue, rituals and blood magic⌠None of it is wand-based. So the entire structure of âyou must have a wand to be civilizedâ is built on a fragile, discriminatory lie.