This rant brought to you by Star Wars: The Force Awakens (featuring Rey, the lady scavenger-pilot-mechanic-Jedi of my heart) and also years of simmering resentment.
I think the most depressing thing about the Mary Sue phenomenon is that it arose from a largely-female based fandom and is thus a really unpleasant reminder of how much sexism women internalize
and internalized any kind of -ism is just about as depressing as it gets
âŚIâve absolutely never felt this way? Seriously, have you guys read some of the fic thatâs out there? And have you ever heard the term âGary Stuâ? Mary Sues are obviously going to be a prominent phenomenon because of the number of young, inexperienced female fanfiction authors, who havenât learned to write balanced characters (which I would argue is largely because of their lack of representation in ORIGINAL CANON DAMMIT), but there are also plenty of Gary Stus out there (cringe), and there are good number of well-written, balanced OCs as well.
From what Iâve seen, Mary Sues and Gary Stus are usually OCs who have bad writing (bad characterization, introduction, and such) who take a dangerous amount of attention away from already-known characters, or are fantasy-based (as in, for example, a âpopular girlâ fantasy or a âmale powerâ fantasy) self-inserts who often destabilize any kind of plot or previously known characterization of canon characters. (Which is not to say you canât have a fic with an OC main character, be they male or female; just donât make them dull or predictable. Give them choices - hard ones! Let them be problematic at times! Let them experience love, betrayal, conflict, difficulty! Nothing is ever easy, for a good protagonist, and good protagonists can rarely make it on their own.)
Additionally - last I knew (correct me if Iâm wrong) âMary Sueâ and âGary Stuâ were supposed to be fanfiction terms? Obviously you wouldnât use them for canon; thatâs not what theyâre meant for. You can have overpowered, unbalanced protagonists in canon writing, but thatâs just plain bad writing or bad characterization.
So, no, Rey isnât a Mary Sue, and anyone who says so is a) misusing the term, in my opinion, and b) entitled to their own opinion, but should compare Rey to Luke in ANH and re-evaluate their statement.
I canât believe weâve gotten to the point where this many people think the term âMary Sueâ is misogynistic.
Despite the fact that âGary Stuâ exists.
Despite the fact it has everything to do with writing quality and character building and nothing to do with gender.
You people are reaching too far and too hard to find something that just isnât there.
The term âMary Sueâ originating from a female-based fandom does not confirm âinternalized misogynyâ, it destroys your fucking argument by showing that the term was and continues to be a critique on poor writing, and that it has absolutely nothing to do with shaming female characters. It was started because there was a slew of poorly written, special snowflake characters that made most fanfiction uninteresting at best and cringe-worthy at worst. There are OP male characters, there are OP female characters. The Fanfic community has called out both using âMary Sueâ and âGary Stuâ
Maybe you guys should learn to take some fucking criticism.
Mary Sues and Gary Stus are there in original works as well. Bella Swan and Wesley Crusher anyone?
I feel like the world is rolling away from sanity
Ah yes That disgusting catchall âinternalized sexismâ
Yes because everything in the universe is out to âpoliceâ women. No itâs literally not shut the fuck up. Iâm so sick of this fucking bullshit. Itâs not. Always. About. You.
Iâm going to actually agree with OP somewhat.Â
There is a tendency in fandoms to label a female character a mary sue for no reason and bash female characters and female fanmade characters for asinine reasons. And it is usually female fans that do it.Â
Is it sexism? Maybe. Is it a problem? Yes, and I think a one. And Iâve been seeing a lot of people calling Rey a mary sue when they wouldnât call a male character that is just as powerful and skilled as her a gary stu.Â
And people donât even use the term Gary Stu as often either.Â
So maybe we should actually consider what beckytext is saying. Fans do bash female characters for ridiculous reasons.Â
Star Wars is, without exaggeration, the most popular sci-fi franchise in human history. Of course there are going to people who donât like Rey and think sheâs a Mary Sue. I happen to disagree with them, but that doesnât make the criticisms inherently misogynist.
Iâd like to point you to, oh, Avengers. Black Widow is a beautiful, intelligent, talented, lethal spyâŚwho also has serious guilt issues over her dark past, is probably the most physically fragile of the team, and never got a chance to really grow up. My headcanon is that the reason she went all ânotice me Sempai!â in Age of Ultron is because, well, sheâs messed up. She goes after the guy she cannot actually have a fulfilling relationship with, as he repeatedly points out. She was trained to seduce men, not to date âem. Nothing about her behavior was healthy.
People donât use the term Gary Stu as often because most fanfic is written by girls, and thatâs where the term originated and is primarily used.
We donât actually have a male character whoâs just as good as Rey, so youâre trying to support your argument that the Fans Who Cry Sue are sexist based on a hypothetical scenarioâŚwhich assumes theyâre sexist.
Becky isnât just saying that fans bash female characters for ridiculous reasons. Sheâs saying that all of the complaints about Mary Sues are examples of sexism. Stop trying to backpedal.
Itâs also ironic, really, that OP complains that the term Mary Sue makes imaginary people afraid of writing female characters. One, if you canât take criticism, you canât grow as a writer. Two, itâs been argued that similar criticism from feminists also disincentivise the creation of female and minority characters. For Peteâs sake, Black Widow discussing her sterilization with the guy she was interested in got Joss Whedon hounded off of Twitter. Wanna talk about an issue that affects lots of women? Nope, canât do that, youâre placing womenâs worth on their reproductive ability. Even though this is a response to Bruce pointing out that he canât have kids, and none of the other female characters in the film are known to have kids.Â
And finally, notice how Becky doesnât even pretend to discuss the flaws in the definition or idea itself. Only the supposed effects of the term. Yes, a Sue is a type of female protagonist, but that doesnât make the character good, and thatâs a stupid reason to support one.
While I was driving back from seeing the film with a few friends, the term was thrown around when discussing Rey in the same scenario Iâm assuming itâs used by in most discussions of her: the fact that with no explanation, and with basically zero training, she is able to competently use The Force. Even characters like Anakin, who was supposedly the most powerful Jedi, and Luke needed a large amount of training with Jedi to be able to effectively use The Force. Hell, it took Luke a movie and a half to actually get into connection with The Force.
Iâm assuming theyâll try to explain it as âSheâs related to someone who was a Jediâ or some excuse that wonât hold up, even in-universe. It honestly seemed like they just wanted to give people a kick-ass female Jedi even though we already had some badass ones in the EU (which Iâm still angry that they made non-cannon, especially because Leia becomes a full-fledged Jedi in them, and the idea of Kylo was obviously taken from the EU). It doesnât help that Kylo, who she beat with her sudden Force powered second wind, was a whiny pussy who was a pathetic excuse for a Sith, and a much worse Sith than Darth Caedus, which was the EU character he was inspired by. I donât think sheâs a true Mary Sue, as her character is actually pretty good, but her ability to use The Force does seem very strange.
