1. Jaykyle (or is it kylejay if its bottom jason?)
2. Primehood
The reason? I just freaking love Jason having strong men to have his back.
Kyle is a freaking lantern and I think people that are not lantern fans, underestimated how strong they really are. And SBP is just so damn strong that's not even for question.
I like wally too, but that's freaking rare and I just feel that wally is already perfect with Linda. But, if I found stuff shipping him with Jason then I won't say no.
I also prefer that he date in his age group or dick cause he has enough issues with older men (age group bruce or slade)
Still, I like batcest either dickjay, timjay or damijay. Especially if either dick, tim or dami is obsessed with jason. Give me a protective dick, stalker and morally ambiguous tim and possessive dami or either one or all of it. Dick defending Jason, Tim willing to do anything for him and Dami waiting patiently till he is older to claim his beloved.
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In a Jason lives au, I don't think the story ends with a happily ever after. If anything, Jason surviving only means there is even more to unpack afterward.
First, there's Jason and Bruce's relationship. Ofc Bruce would reassure Jason that he loves him and sees him as his son. But we also have to acknowledge that if Bruce doesn't step up and get both himself and Jason into therapy or at least find someone they can talk to then they're just going to repeat the same cycle.
They make up. Jason does something that worries Bruce. Bruce doesn't know how to express what he's feeling, represses it, shifts into Batman mode, and nothing actually gets resolved.
Second, there's Joker. We know Bruce wiped out the evidence of Joker's involvement in canon. I believe he would do the same thing here, because, as usual, identity protection comes first. Officially, it wasn't Jason Todd who was tortured and nearly murdered. It was Robin.
Which means Jason never truly gets the justice he deserves. Of course Bruce would beat Joker half to death. But then what? It plays out exactly like canon. Joker survives, gets sent back to Arkham and continues living his life without meaningful consequences. How is Jason supposed to feel about that?
Yes, he survived. He still has his family. His family loves him. At first, he probably wouldn't want to think about Joker at all. He'd just be grateful to be alive.
But eventually reality sets in. He's the one who has to live with what happened. He's the one carrying the injuries, the trauma and the scars. Some of those wounds might heal. Others might take years. Some may never fully go away.
And Jason is smart. Not just academically, but practically. He's lived through things most people never have. He grew up in Crime Alley. He experienced poverty, homelessness, neglect and violence firsthand. At the same time, being adopted by Bruce gave him access to a world most people in Gotham will never see. He understands both ends of the city's social ladder in a way very few people do.
So eventually Jason's thoughts wouldn't stay focused on himself. They would shift to everyone else. Because Jason knows he isn't the only victim. He survived and he was fortunate enough to have a billionaire father who could afford the best medical care, the best protection and every resource imaginable. But what about the people who don't have that? What about the victims who don't have a Bruce Wayne waiting for them? What about the people who are hurt, abandoned or failed by a system that was supposed to protect them?
Jason as we seen has always had a tendency to overidentify with victims. He empathizes deeply with people who have been hurt, abandoned or failed by the system. That's one of the core reasons his ideology clashes so strongly with Bruce's.
Jason needs to see perpetrators face real consequences. He needs to know they can't hurt anyone else again. Because from his perspective, the system is corrupt, unreliable, and often incapable of protecting the people who need protection most. He's seen that reality firsthand.
Bruce, however, comes from a very different place. That isn't to say Bruce doesn't understand suffering. Watching your parents be murdered in front of you is a trauma that shaped his entire life. He has dedicated himself to protecting Gotham and has repeatedly put his life on the line to do so. But at the end of the day, Bruce and Jason grew up in completely different worlds.
Bruce lost his parents, but he never had to wonder where his next meal was coming from. He never had to worry about finding a place to sleep for the night. He never had to calculate how much money he had left just to survive another week. When Bruce comes home from being Batman, there is always a home waiting for him. There is food on the table. There are people looking after him whether he realizes it or not.
Jason didn't have that. Jason grew up in Crime Alley. He knows what it feels like when the police don't come. He knows what it feels like when they do come and nothing changes. He knows what it feels like to be powerless while the people hurting you continue living their lives. He understands the fear of wondering whether an abuser will be released. Whether a criminal will come back. Whether anyone will help if something happens again.
Why can't I protect myself? Why is the system failing? Why does nobody care?
Those are questions Jason has been asking long before he ever became Robin. That's why Bruce and Jason often end up talking past each other. Bruce sees the potential danger in crossing certain lines. Jason sees the people who get hurt because those lines are never crossed. Neither perspective comes from nowhere. They are the products of two very different lives. And that's exactly why their conflict is so difficult to resolve.
For me, Jason's morals were never going to align with Bruce's, and I don't just mean in terms of killing. Jason isn't a reckless murder machine. His original goal was never killing for the sake of killing. His goal was control and facing consequences. To Jason, the lives of victims matter more than the lives of perpetrators who repeatedly escape consequences and return to prey on others. He kills because he cannot see a system that reliably prevents that cycle.
In a universe where Jason survives, I think he'd dedicate himself to building that system instead. And Jason knows something Bruce often overlooks: money makes the world go round. So he'd use it.
Jason definitely would start with his education. High school. College. Master's degree. Doctorate if necessary. He'd study whatever fields he needed to understand the problems Gotham faces and how to solve them. Economics, Law, Public policy, Criminal justice, Social welfare, etc.
Jason would look at Gotham's poverty, corruption and class divide and ask how those problems can actually be fixed. He'd look at the justice system and ask how justice can be served properly instead of simply locking criminals up until they inevitably escape. And if he concludes that certain crimes deserve the death penalty, he would absolutely support it.
There would be arguments with Bruce, of course. But here's the thing: if we're going to emphasize Bruce's guilt over what happened to Jason, then that guilt would manifest in Bruce giving Jason access to resources. He would fund Jason's education, his projects, his research and whatever long term plans Jason develops whether Bruce fully agrees with them or not.
And for Jason, his vision would never be a short term one. He'd spend years building connections, gathering support and creating frameworks that could outlast him. He'd know that he might never live long enough to fully accomplish his goals, but he'd still try. Because that's who Jason is.
What I really want to emphasize is that Jason surviving doesn't magically solve anything. The trauma, ideological divide and communication problems are still there. A living Jason doesn't erase the issues that existed before his death.
At the end of the day, if Bruce, Jason and the people around them refuse to compromise, communicate and confront their problems in a healthy way, then nothing truly changes. The cycle just continues.
I like Timjay but sometimes when the fics have Jason feeling so guilty because he hurt Tim and even mentioned the titans tower and how Tim is just so merciful for forgiving Jason, I just can't. Tim is so pitiful but he's so kind to love Jason. I'm out.
Have we considered... Older damian with tiny canonically 4'6, 87lbs Jaybin.... hmmmm....
Oh, what a tiny bird
Thinking about it in a Reverse Robins context where Damian acts as Batman while Bruce is otherwise indisposed, and Jason's just a baby Robin sooo excited to finally work with the first. It's the sort of thing that's begging to be taken advantage of ☝️especially if he's wearing that leotard. Got legs for days that shouldn't be anywhere but thrown over shoulders.
Then it's just Damian holding Jason up the entire time he fucks him. Folded in two against brick in the middle of patrol, knees pressed up around his ears. Curls all mussed, pretty blue eyes wet, so Damibats can call him a crybaby
I do believe from what I've read Jason would be the kind of student who excels in class but also excels in real life if he gets the opportunity. He definitely has projects/businesses/works that he done during his student time and would only be bigger or make it better afterwards. Book smart and street smart.
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Okay, I'm calm enough now that I can actually formulate a coherent response to all of this.
I understand now that by writing a meta about why Tim sometimes victim-blamed Jason early on I have been too hasty, because apparently we first need to clarify what victim-blaming is. That's on me. Thankfully, someone made a post listing a bunch of arguments that highlight some of the issues underpinning that mechanism. It made me very mad in the moment because I think this was a harmful post and on top of that it was condescending in a way that implies authority. However, ultimately it's a good opportunity to talk about that, both because learning to recognize victim-blaming is a vital skill to have in order to support one's community, and because I don't think it's a good idea at all to let this kind of harmful misinformation spread in our spaces unchecked.
Victim-blaming meta take 2
So here we see OP claiming that we can't refer to "Jason's whole situation" (aka the treatment of his murder in and out of comics) as victim blaming because according to OP, that's not what that means. First, I can't resist pointing out that OP, intentionally or not, is using a rather dishonest technique in so that they're saying the same thing twice. It's very well done but let's untangle that sentence a little bit:
"that's not what that term means and it's ALSO not what's happening either inside or out of the comics." Note the ALSO in higher case meant to emphasize that there are two arguments here giving more weight to OP's position.
> "that's not what that term means" okay but what is what that term means? What does "that" means here? What is being compared to the definition of victim-blaming? The answer, by syntactic inference, seems to be "jason's whole situation", which again, is how OP refers to the treatment of Jason's murder in and out of canon, what they're arguing here with the fandom. Compare that that to the other part of the sentence:
> "'it's ALSO not what's happening in and out of comics"
Do you get what I'm saying? The "it" pronoun here is what we call a referent, meaning that its function is to serve as a replacement for a word of group of words that has been used before -though sometimes there can be ambiguity as it could refer to different previously mentioned elements. Here, we have two possibilities, but only one makes sense logically. Either this person is saying that "Jason's whole situation isn't what's happening in or outside of comics" which is some kind of tautological paradox: according to this person, Jason's situation wouldn't be... Jason's situation. The other option, a bit more awkward syntactically but way more logical, is that "it" actually refers to "victim-blaming", meaning that they're saying victim blaming isn't what's being said in and out of canon. Ultimaly, this person is saying twice that Jason's treatment isn't victim-blaming, and wording it differently with an ALSO added for emphasis to make their claim seem more potent than it is.
Honestly, that's a detail. Accidentally saying the same shit twice is something we all do sometimes, and it's not what we're focused on here, but since they added that infuriating "also" as though their logical mistake was some kind of grand speech, I wanted to be petty and point out that manipulative phrasing. It also can't hurt to clarify why I'm only answering one claim even though OP makes it look like they're saying two things.
But in any case, OP is telling us that there are no occurrences of people speaking about Jason in and out of canon that fits the definition of victim-blaming. Fortunately, I happen to have access to a formidable website called wikipedia, which allows me to find common definitions for concepts and double-check the sources for these definitions.
Victim-blaming, then, can be defined as : a devaluing act that occurs when the victim(s) of a crime or an accident is held responsible — in whole or in part — for the crimes that have been committed against them.1 This blame can appear in the form of negative social responses from legal, medical, and mental health professionals, as well as from the media and immediate family members and other acquaintances. Some victims of crime receive more sympathy from society than others. Often, the responses toward crime victims are based on the misunderstanding of others. This misunderstanding may lead them to believe that the victim deserved what happened to them, or that they are individuals with low self-esteem who seek out violence. As a result, it can be very difficult for victims to cope when they are blamed for what has happened to them.
(pay attention to the parts in blue, they're going to help us later).
It can also be defined as: an attitude which consists in holding the victims of an aggression or an injustice responsible for what they experienced. The culpabilisation of the victims allows us to avoid condemning the aggressor, who is granted attenuating circumstances. (translated from french, sorry if the syntax is a bit awkward i tried to stick to the original wording as closely as possible).
Or, again: the procedure (actions/approach) of attributing the perpetrator's blame for an act of violence to the victim (translated from german, sorry if the syntax is a bit awkward i tried to stick to the original wording as closely as possible).
The Spanish page from wikipedia is way too close to the English one to give us any new insight in the definition itself but it has the merit of reminding us that victim-blaming is the social tool of fascism, which is an important reminder in case anybody here is wondering why I'm mad.
Point being, OP didn't deign support her claim with a definition, but we have more than enough definitions to go around, and despite differences in phrasing they all more or less say the same thing: "victim-blaming is when part of the responsibility for an act of violence is attributed to the victim of that act."
So let's compare this to some of the things being said in and about canon.
In A Death in the Family, Jason is struggling mentally. He does behave recklessly as Robin, at that moment in time, which is treated as out of character for him and attributed not to a light-hearted daredevil attitude but to psychological struggle and potential suicidality. However, even recklessness that hadn't been a factor, Jason would still have gotten killed. As a consequence of his struggles, Jason travels in order to find his biological mother. There, he is reunited with Batman, and together they end up finding his mother, Sheila Haywood. He did not go there for vengeance (against who? Joker hadn't done anything to him) thrill (he seems more miserable than anything at this point in time) or to prove himself, he went there to find his mother. There, he finds out that Sheila's in trouble because of the Joker. He reveals to her that he is Robin in an effort to get her to trust that he and Batman can help her. Meanwhile, Bruce goes to stop Joker from killing a bunch of people, and tells Jason to stay put. But Jason doesn't, because Sheila tells him to follow her. That's the point that people love to remember, the cornerstone of the victim-blaming- Jason was "disobedient", he didn't listen to Batman. But they forget that in disobeying Batman, he was obeying Sheila. This decision wasn't made because Jason was disobedient, it was made because he had to make a choice which command to obey and he made that choice based on his trust in Sheila and his desire to help. And Jason wasn't reckless in going to the warehouse that the Joker was in, simply because he couldn't have known that there was danger there -he trusted Sheila who lied to him and told him the warehouse was empty. He didn't think himself strong enough to solo Joker and his goons, he just didn't know that he would have to.
If you're looking for factors in Jason's motivations and character that lead to his death, there are three: his yearning for a parent, his eagerness to trust people, and his heroism. Anything else said about Jason's motivation in that story is a lie. And what narrative would lying about Jason's character and motivation serve?
What is said in the comics themselves :
Tim hallucinating Jason's ghost, aka Tim's perception of Jason, telling him that Jason died because he "thought that he could be better than Batman" and that he "killed himself, because he couldn't wait, because he didn't think it through".
"I'm not like Jason. But what if I have some other flaw? Sometimes I think I go too far the other way. Too cautious." Here, Tim is implying that Jason had a flaw, his recklessness, and though it's not explicity stated I don't think you could argue in good faith that this scene isn't about Jason's death -and that Tim isn't attributing Jason's death to that flaw.
I didn't highlight anything because all of Alfred's dialogue and monologue counts. First he characterizes Jason through a motivation of vengeance, then claims that Jason's death was foreseeable because of Jason's character, and then says "It's not your fault, the lad was determined to disobey you."
"But Jason was reckless. The role of Robin turned him into a daredevil... He took chances. Openly defied Batman's orders. And that's what killed him. He went solo against the Joker."
"Jason saw being Robin as a game. It's probably what got him killed."
Compare all these examples to what happened in aditf: these characters are lying about Jason's character and motivations in order to create links between this character and motivation on one hand, and then relying on these causality links to attribute some or even all the blame of Jason's murder on Jason. Let me be very clear: Jason's murder has one person who bears entire blame and responsibility (Joker) and other people who bear partial blame and responsibility (Joker's accomplices, including Sheila). And yet, these panels that all address the causes of Jason's death don't even treat Joker as the main cause! They're talking like Jason drove a car without a license and Joker is the wall that Jason drove into. The agency is completely taken from Joker and attributed to Jason. Tim's inner Jason says "I killed myself." Batman's inner monologue says "he took chances. Openly defied Batman's orders. And that's what killed him." "Jason saw being Robin as a game. It's probably what got him killed."
In those examples Jason is held, in whole or in part, responsible for the crime that has been committed against him. And that happens to be the actual definition of victim blaming.
Jason is tired because he has a long week and just wants to sleep and rest for the weekend. But, Dick is stressed cause he has a long week too and when Dick is stressed he keeps on talking so he won't overthink.
Jason loves Dick so much and he loves hearing Dick talks but seriously he needs to sleep and Dick needs to stop talking and sleep too. So he does what a good boyfriend always does; kiss Dick and shut his mouth.
Dickjay where Father Jason and Talon Dick meet Dickjay from the original universe. Dick sees how obsessed Talon Dick is with Father Jason and thinks it’s so unhealthy and kind of dangerous because, you know, Talon and all that. Cue everyone looking at him and basically telling him to his face that he acts the exact same way toward Jason. So yeah, he really doesn’t have room to talk.
Primehood is the power couple in the most literal way ever. Jason is capable and Prime is strong, if they really want to achieve something and puts their mind into it, they surely would achieve it.
The people around them keep making contingency plans for them in case they turn evil because they already see Jason and Prime as nothing good.
But Jason, despite having the power of Prime in his hands just being his unbothered self and Prime is just enjoying himself around Jason.
Still, both of them are little shits and sometimes they act like they're gonna do something big just to mess around with people surveiling them.
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people being all like “well jasons death was for the best cause we got red hood!” as if jason wasn’t already interesting as robin is a stab in my liver
that was a kid who wanted to do what was right and starting to figure out batman and robin weren’t enough to do that. the boy was gonna be revolutionary he didn’t need to die to be interesting
Jason who is depressed and just wants to die because it's been so so long and he is always alone. It's always the same cycle with the bats and he is just so tired of it all. But Jason can’t die.
Because Death loves him. And Death refuses to take him before they believe it’s truly his time. They also can’t keep resurrecting Jason without consequences, so instead they place him in a kind of timeline limbo and fake memories, where time doesn't make sense. Whenever Jason finally breaks and kills himself, he wakes up somewhere else, in a different timeline, in a different life. It’s meant to protect him from the pain that drove him there in the first place.
So the cycle continues. Jason doesn’t age. He doesn’t truly die. He remembers his original life then kills himself and starts again, living new lives, over and over again, until one day he might finally remember what it feels like to be alive.
And then there's Kyle, who has the knowledge of what's currently happening to Jason because Death themselves visited him and tells him about Jason. And the one thing that he wants for Jason is to see him happy again.
So Kyle follows him. Across timelines, across worlds, across lives Jason wouldn't even remember. And he always finds Jason somehow. And every time, he introduces himself the same way. "I'm Kyle Rayner your glowstick space cop," using the same nickname Jason used to call him before although this Jason would always look at him weirdly after.
The most devastating but sacred thing is, every time, Jason always falls in love with Kyle. It doesn’t matter who they are in that life. It doesn’t matter where they are or what they do. Jason would fall in love and Kyle would mourn the memories of them from before but also grateful that he can still love Jason freely.
Still for Kyle, it hurts. Jason forgets him every single time. Every laugh, every promise, every quiet moment they share disappears when the timeline ends. But he stays anyway.
Because one day Jason will be ready to live again and he will wait until the end of time for it. Until then, it’s just a cycle of falling in love over and over again.
This is one of the most interesting things ever. They really should do a team up. Each has their own codes with Cass firmly standing with Batman's code and Jason being the one who questions it. And then there's Kon who is trying to just be himself and create his own identity.
Like they're so chaotic but each is strong, skillful and smart so they always finish their missions although there's a lot of disagreement on their parts with each other. And to explore how each of them learn and acknowledge each other after that. Just peers who are extremely dangerous but also a disaster together. Gahhh isn't there a fic with this premise?
This is not a question, I just wanted to share peak animation... It doesn't even have anything to do with dickjay, but it reminded me of them so hard, hahaha.
Jay just trying to casually rizz a girl; then Richie the flamboyant comes along and his rizz is so much harder... The girl shifts her attention to Richie and Jay is sad. That is only until Dick starts to rizz HIM up xD
Omgggggg! Goshh. I freaking laugh watching this. It is so funny yet I can really imagine that happening.
Maybe Jason just wants to try flirting because it's been awhile and maybe in some sort of satisfaction, he wants to see if he's still attractive enough (also because his friends urge him too).
Then Dick who is in love with Jason seeing that and feeling jealous so in sort of sick possessive obsession of his, he needs to make sure that girl is not looking at Jason so that's why he flirts with her.
After the girl is successfully distracted, he immediately lock in to Jason again and make sure Jason knows his intention.
Gahhh love this, thank you for sharing it with me 💜
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"Jason is Bruce's favourite, he lets him get away with murder!"
No? The only time you could ever argue that Jason 'got away' with murder was during the three jokers, and even then, it was because he was tortured when Bruce found him.
Jason has been to Arkham (not bruce), Blackgate (Bruce came back and was fine leaving him there), was beaten half to death, got dragged back to the warehouse he died in and was beaten there, got his throat slit and was left in a building which exploded afterwards, was beaten into a coma because Bruce didn't bother investigating, was banned from Alfred's funeral, got a special treatment that sent him into a panic attack when he produced adrenaline to the point where he has to self medicate with joker venom, and after his autonomy was removed he was guilt tripped into dying AGAIN. Then, he was excluded from the family at the end of the run
If this is how he treats his favourite, then I don't know what he would've done if he didn't like Jason
i dont really like it in fics when jason will snark at bruce and like four characters will get all awkward and quiet and let him know how much bruce was losing it after his death. i get it as an argument out of world, but in their universe and from their pov that kinda has nothing to do with jason currently. not saying we should dismiss bruce's grief, but bruce wasn't the victim of jasons death. why do they always try and make jason sympathize with bruces pain when, to jason, bruce erased his existence entirely. idk it feels like theyre saying, yeah, dude, your death was really hard for him, be gentle, he's fragile. and then theyre also unintentionally putting all of bruces actions done through grief on jasons shoulders. like what does that have to do with jasons anger today
#does this make sense#the whole joke abt jason not being the only one who died is fun and all#but he DID die#and it happened at a pretty important stage in his development too#he wasnt dead for a day or a week#he was dead for six months and catatonic for another year#he should be able to bring it up without it being dismissed in favor of bruces struggle
@dirixxarsn
#in doing this the batfam are telling jason that he inherently causes bruce pain & suffering and needs to change his behavior to make up for.#for daring to get murdered. like they expect jason to be nearly apologetic for allowing himself to be killed. be apologetic for#his responsibility in bruce's grief.#like i know this is not the intent but that is how it comes across sometimes!! and i do not like this!!
