I feel like some of you guys are forgetting that when he met another queer person who had a different self-presentation than himself, after his initial self-conditioning and internalised homophobia made him think how weird they looked, Shane's first conscious thought was to correct himself and to be like 'I need more queer friends.' I guarantee you he would not prefer to be around his racist, sexist, homophobic ex-friends and teammates instead of his gayass sunshine-and-rainbows power-of-friendship hopecore team. Idk where you guys are getting that idea.
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one of the things i enjoy most about the aftg books is andrewâs speech patterns, but specifically when you look at the rest of the characters.
because i think right now many books are being published with unrealistic dialogue, fantasy books are the biggest offenders on this but its sort of all over the place. its just twenty something characters acting like overlords or villains with formal vocabulary and overly forced banter.
and the truth is Nora could have written it like that, made every one of these ratty college kids speak in riddles or like royalty for no fucking reason; but it would take you out of the story immediately.
and yet she did it for andrew. so when you hear him speak like a freak, in a context where nobody else does, you dont think oh this is unrealistic, your brain just goes ohhh thatâs a theater kid or an autistic kid or an autistic theater kid DUH of courseeee
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Oops saw another tictok about heated rivalry that pissed me off beyond belief so now Iâm here ranting⌠again :(
Why is it that I see so many people wanting to blame the queer show (written and directed by a gay man btw) for the homophobia it receiving. Because yes fetishization is a form of homophobia. Why is it that queer media canât depict sex without being accused of being made for straight women? Why is it that more people are blaming mlm content for getting more attention than wlw content WHEN STRAIGHT CONTENT HAS VASTLY MORE THAN EITHER OF THEM?! Why canât our own fucking community realize that just because a show isnât your favorite doesnât make it bad queer representation? Why am I constantly seeing OUR OWN COMMUNITY blaming the existence of mlm content for STRAIGHT PEOPLES FETISHIZING US?!
Iâm actually so done with some people. It feels like we canât ever have queer content go mainstream without our own community shitting on in from every angle. Itâs giving purity politics in the way that our content canât exist without being scrutinized to a level that straight media never is. For fucks sake off campus has more graphic explicit content than heated rivalry but you never see people calling that show âpractically just pornâ.
"grace. grace! grace give attention. rocky perform human ritual of escape closet now. statement."
"come again?"
"i learn more from thinking machine. human gender preference. attraction to same gender, means word 'gay.' all eridian same gender." rocky stands straight up. "rocky come out to grace now. all rocky plural gay, statement."
"...wow, that's... rock, i'm not sure it makes much sense to apply human ideas of sexual orientation to a monogendered species."
Bro tumblr hates gay people fr cause what do you mean Iâve seen adds with dick and balls in them but my artistic depiction of gay sex is too explicit for this godforsaken website.
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iâm curious: what is your personal take on how andrew would take/react to a stranger clearly checking neil out, looking at his ass, coming onto him, etc (if you think he would have a reaction)? I know andrew is The Character of all time to u so id like to know ur thoughts <3
Hi there,
This is such a fun question! [Also I love the description of Andrew being the Character of All Time for me. Exactly]. I have a bit of a long answer, so my thoughts will be under the Read More!
So Nora has answered some questions regarding Andrew being protective/possessive in the past - although mainly about possessiveness/protectiveness surrounding defending Neil from people who wanna fight him more-so than people who wanna fuck him. Regarding fighting, she said: on the Exy court Andrew wouldnât DIRECTLY intervene until the situation was dire - like how he immediately went to strangle Lane in TGR, but if someone did start shoving Neil a little too hard even for a rough sport like Exy, Andrew would, âretaliate by rebounding every ball he gets for the rest of the game at their head & feet.â OFF the Exy court: âAndrew would definitely intervene and settle things for him⌠Neil comments on it the first time, but Andrew ignores him in favor of checking Neilâs split lip, and Neil opts for finding it endearing rather than a slight against his questionable fighting skills.â
Andrew is physically protective of Neil against perceived threats. I think how he would react would depend on the severity of a threat - and sexual interest could definitely BECOME a threat & but may not always qualify as one depending on how the individual is displaying their sexual interest in Neil.
Additionally (a little tangent based on the information above) Andrew LOVES when Neil runs his mouth (canonically one of his favourite things about Neil) & Andrew is going to guarantee that Neil can keep talking shit forever without consequences & if someone does try to retaliate against Neil, Andrew instinctively protects Neil (probably by punching the other person twice as hard as they had hit/tried to hit Neil).
This makes sense considering what we were beginning to see of Andrew/Neilâs dynamic in TKM [so sorry to throw you under the bus here, Kevin, but these are two very good examples in TKM: The first is when Neil is shit-talking Riko & the Ravens to the reporters when they ask about his Number 4 tattoo, Kevin tries to get Neil to hush & then Neil overhears him complaining about him so he, âturned and shoved Kevin into the door as hard as he could⌠Andrew, whoâd attacked Matt for hitting Kevin, took a neat step out of the way." Now, we contrast this scene with this second scene when Kevin is about to say something ânegative and dismissingâ about the Foxes losing to the Trojans, âNeil reached behind Andrew and popped Kevin in the back of the head to shut him up⌠Kevin froze for a startled second, then sent Neil a scathing look
âNo one wants to hear that right now,â Neil said.
âIf you hit me again,â Kevin started.
Andrew cut in with a casual, âYouâll what?ââ
Both these scenes take place pre-Baltimore, as well. And then we all know what happened post-Baltimore. And also that post-Baltimore is when Andrew acknowledged to himself that Neil was IT for him & that losing Neil would be the one thing Andrew could not come back from.
Basically, Andrew plays favourites. VERY blatantly. His protectiveness : Neil can do what he wants without consequences & if anyone tries to enforce consequences upon Neil you will be dealing with ME. I think sometimes people characterize Andrew as⌠someone who isnât interested in stepping into Neilâs business uninvited, which isnât true. Andrew will make Neilâs business his business. Someone expressing interest in Neil/finding Neil attractive would definitely qualify as Andrew's business.
I think this is also why I say I donât think the jealousy!trope works very well for established Andrew/Neil. [Nora once answered that Andrew would need a âmust sign autographsâ clause in his Pro Exy contracts b/c otherwise he would just blankly stare at someone asking for an autograph until they walked away.] Andrew is not nice. Heâs not interested in most people. Andrew & Neil are never going to behave in a way that will make the oner one jealous b/c theyâre both fully aware of what they mean to each other & they are distinctly Nicer to each other than they are to other people, especially strangers. So, I donât think Andrew would be jealous of someone else finding Neil attractive b/c he knows Neil (like Andrew) doesnât give a shit about outsiders. Neil is never going to return a random stranger's attraction/interest. Andrew will not experience any fear of abandonment of Neil leaving him for someone else.
Nora also once answered a question about reporters asking future Andrew/Neil about their relationship if they were accidentally outed and they were a few interesting parts of her answer:
The Pro Team that Andrew & Neil both play for (Andrew & Neil also both start playing for the same Pro Team 3 years after Andrew graduated from college & 2 years for Neil. Neil only played on ONE other Pro team right after graduating college before Andrewâs coach snatched him up and thatâs b/c the coach NOTICED that Andrew/Neil basically spent all their time together when they could) knew about Andrew/Neil since DAY ONE. B/c they are not hiding their relationship and apparently itâs quite obvious they are together. [We can see the start of this in TSC when Jean points out that Andrew & Neil orbit one another].
Neil says that Andrew/Neil are NOT embarrassed about being publicly outed when the reporter asks b/c there is nothing to be embarrassed about.
Neil confirms that he and Andrew are in a relationship but provides no extra details because the details are THEIRS and that âthe only reason they donât talk about it is because itâs no one elseâs business.â [Neil/Andrew are private but they're also not hiding and I think this is an important distinction].
These are interesting tidbits for me when I think of post-Canon Andrew/Neil characterization b/c Iâve mentioned before that some people still write post-Canon Andrew/Neil as (Andrew in particular but sometimes Neil as well, which is strange b/c Neil was heavily insistent on the fact that Andrew/Neil werenât nothing) saying theyâre nothing or denying their relationship - even though that issue was resolved by the end of TKM [and Aaron even tells us in his POV Bonus Chapter that Andrew/Neil werenât even bothering to deny their relationship to the other Foxes]. Andrew wasnât ever/will never say Neil is nothing to him in front of others, either (outside of when he lashed out at Aaron but Aaron immediately called him a liar) - when he said it to Neil, it was with some understanding that Neil knew where Andrew was coming from (the danger of letting someone in). Andrew has enough critical thinking skills to know that some random is going to think (a) that Andrew is ashamed of his sexuality or Neil or (b) that one of them is available, which definitely isnât the case.
And while Andrew & Neil are private people it seems as if Nora envisioned (and based on TSC & TGR) still seems to envision that itâs very obvious that Andrew/Neil are together. And because Andrew/Neil do things deliberately & are both critical thinkers aware of their surroundings and how they are perceived, I think Andrew/Neil must BOTH be aware that itâs obvious they are together.
And this information is important to this question (not JUST b/c I ramble on tangents, everyone⌠I swear it all makes sense in my brain) because I think this would inform Andrewâs behaviour on someone checking out or hitting on Neil.
Nora has said before that by the time they go Pro Andrew is certain in his relationship with Neil (what they mean to one another). I would say this certainty happens relatively early on post-Canon. I donât think Andrewâs possessiveness would be b/c he is afraid someone could seduce Neil away (Andrew is very aware that Neil is demisexual & only attracted to Andrew). However, Andrew is canonically a possessive & protective person âmy thingsâ âitâs not just anyone when she lays a hand on whatâs mine.â I donât think these characteristics of Andrewâs will dull over time - in fact, I think the more people he has to let go of to live their own lives (Aaron to Katelyn, medical school, etc. Nicky to Erik, Germany. Kevin to Thea, his own Exy Team + life) the more he will cling to Neil especially as the culmination of his deal and âsomething to build his life around.â We see when Andrew initially letâs go of Aaron, he clings to Nicky & Kevin a bit harder, but I think since Neil is his Favourite & as his and Neilâs relationship develops and they become closer, itâll allow Andrew to focus a lot of his protectiveness/possessiveness solely on Neil (which, good thing Neil is accustomed to this/enjoys this as a sign of Love & the others get a bit more breathing room).
I think a brief, passing glance would be noticed by Andrew but easily disregarded. Andrew also thought Neil was attractive as soon as he picked him up from the airport. In Andrewâs mind, this would be basically harmless.
Repetitive glancing or someone then going out of there way to KEEP Neil in their line of sight (moving when Neil moves to keep their eyes on him, staring multiple days in a row) would have Andrew a bit more on guard. Itâs one thing to notice that Neil is attractive - thatâs a given. Itâs another thing to then act obsessive about it. And I think particularly b/c we know Andrew/Neil ARENâT being subtle Andrew would take his claim on Neil as being easily disregarded/not noticed by some stranger as a personal insult. Andrew has a lot of pride in being threatening and off-putting and if some Random Stranger can ignore that and think they can Constantly Stare at Neil, Andrewâs going to be getting a bit annoyed. Not annoyed enough to do confront them (immediately) unless the staring progresses to literal stalking (randomly appearing where Neil is to continue staring at him) then thereâs going to be a confrontation.
Now, if someone tried their hand at flirting with Neil, I think Andrew would initially let Neil handle it (depending). Neil has demonstrated a willingness to reject people when necessary (Nicky, Marisa) and would continue to do so - I also donât think Neil is AS oblivious to being flirted with as some readers think, I think he just doesnât Give A Shit about people who flirt with him but if theyâre being blatant, he will reject them. I think if someoneâs âflirtingâ was less innocent & more of a Creepy Remark, Andrew would certainly respond with a threat [he was threatened Nicky with a knife when he didnât even know Neil and thatâs b/c creepy flirtatious comments I think are a bit of a trigger for Andrew.] The amount of creepiness would determine Andrewâs level of a violent response.
If someone GRABBED at Neil - that would be an immediate violent response from Andrew. If someone tried to wrap an arm around him, slap his ass, touch him in any sort of way - Andrew is hurting that person. Whether itâs to grab their wrist and twist, punch them, slice with one of his knives, any kind of touching is going to demand immediate retribution. Itâs one thing to stare at someone who belongs to Andrew, another to even try your hand at taking something that belongs to Andrew (good luck as far as Andrew is concerned, no one is taking Neilâs attention away) and something else entirely to grab and touch someone that belongs to Andrew.
I also donât think gender will make a difference to Andrew. He is going to respond as equally violently to a handsy woman as he would to a handsy man (his treatment of Katelyn is a very good indication of this).
are you,,,,,, aware that ao3 was founded by a wincest shipper? like how are you surprised that people are writing incest?
NO I WAS NOT AWARE
im not surprised that people are writing and reading incest lol. you have no how many times ive been bombarded with sirius/regulus in a moonchaser fic or some other ship fic.
my problem is, andrew. literally the guy who has had a lifetime of traumatic experiences through pseudo-incest from people who were supposed to be his family? like cmon. i dont usually judge but i think there needs to be a line drawn SOMEwhere.
i knooooow ilya was the sweetest gentlest shyest little boy who was scared of the dark and listened to his teachers and coaches and loved sprinkles and his stuffed bear and singing in church and was very very good
and then i also know shane did NOT grasp "no hitting when you're mad" until at least age 9 and threw crazy flailing tantrums and was a biter and had to be on a leash for a long while because he would run and then hide in the fucking walls and yuna would be in the department store after closing at 10pm being like shane for the love of god for the love of GOD
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yes some days andrew can't stand to be touched by anyone, including neil, and he has to kick neil out of his bed that night, but i also like to think that there are some days when andrew just cannot touch neil enough. he wants to spend the entire day lying with neil, arms and legs wrapped around him, face tucked into his neck, breathing in his very neil scent, twirling and tugging at auburn hair, fingers tracing scars, holding and being held and touching everywhere everywhere all over he cannot get enough because this touch is good and it smells like neil and it feels like neil and so it's safe and it always will be
OH MY GOD IF I SEE ONE MORE PERSON TRYING TO PLACE HETEROSEXUAL REASONING TO HOLLANOV IâM GONNA RIP MY HAIR OUT!!
They are queer. No they didnât take so long to get together because Ilya is toxic and leading Shane on. No Shane is not paranoid for not wanting to come out. I hate that people are call them a âsituationshipâ not only because it reeks of heterosexuality (to me) but also because itâs just not true. A situationship is acting like a couple in every way except actually calling it a relationship. Ilya and Shane were fuck buddies.
Ilya and Shane took so long to get together because they were denying their feelings for on another BECAUSE THEY ARE QUEER IN AN INDUSTRY THAT WOULD RATHER LET RAPISTS RUN FREE THAN HAVE GAY PEOPLE EXIST. This plus their different styles of communication lead to a lot of misunderstanding that kept them from being together for so long. Ilya isnât just some evil fuckboy leading Shane, the poor little baby girl who doesnât know anything, on HES IN LOVE WITH SHANE JUST AS MUCH AS SHANE IS WITH HIM! Idk how people canât see it, maybe itâs because this was never explicitly stated but I thought it was made pretty clear through their actions what they were thinking/feeling.
Also Shaneâs fear about coming out was 100% valid because literally everything he thought would happen if they did happened. He lost his team, his reputation, the support of the organization that he built from the bottom up. He had every right to be scared but when it came down to all of that he still chose Ilya.
At the end of the day I just donât understand what we gain by pitting the two main characters against each other like this when they explicitly just want to be together.
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