Lets Have A Chat, Shall We?

Back in 2017 I made this post about Mirrors and what not. I went and reread it and feel like I knew what I was going for but some elements were missing because we obviously hadn''t gotten to where we are now. Pieces were missing, so to speak.

I still feel like mirrors mean something for TWD and it's story-line. But I didn't really piece together how much I leaned on them until reading this and thinking about it again.

Back in 2017 I thought episode S8E5 or S8E8 was going to be the episode Beth returned in. Mostly because 8X5 was the mirrored version of 5x8. Episode 8X8 was picked because that was the episode that looked like a reflection of each other.

I decided to go back and watch these specific episodes. I had originally believed we were gonna get a Beth CODA in either one but that it would be a reverse of what we last saw of her in 5x8... Guess what I found?

In 8X5 this is the episode where Rick and Daryl have their fight because Daryl is out and ready to blow up The Savior's Sanctuary and let a hoard of walkers take them all out. The workers and all. Rick doesn't agree with this plan as it'll get innocent people killed. Daryl doesn't give a fuck. Reminder this is after Daryl has lost Beth not that long ago, Dwight and Sherry fucked him over in the woods when he tried to do good, and Denise got killed before him by his own bow by Dwight. Daryl a good chunk of S5 through S9E5 when Rick "dies" is very off against everyone, Rick especially.

That is the opposite of how it's been since S3 of TWD with Rick and Daryl. It's a reverse of what we are used to seeing between these two. They're usually following one another and backing each other up, not fighting and causing Hell for the other.

Alice stepped into a backwards world. This is one of those instances of things being backwards for the audience. This also goes back to my belief that Noah - who died after Beth partially lost her life for him - was our mirror. He was a brother to twins, one twin biting Tyreese WHILE Noah was there. He reflected off himself in his home and Tyreese died.

If you read my post about Mirrors there's a lot of lore and superstitions around mirrors. One was the following;

Someone seeing their reflection in a room where someone has recently died will soon die themselves.

Noah's reflection was seen but it bounced to Tyreese. So i believe Noah was our mirror. When he died he was trapped inside a revolving door. You can see your reflection bouncing around in those. Noah reflected on himself then died. It wasn't Noah's fault he died, it was Nicholas panicking and forcing the door open. The revolving door wasn't a clear mirror so he could have survived if Nicholas hadn't panicked, but he got pushed out and killed.

Noah wasn't the only mirror on the show. See Mirrors aren't all about bad luck and superstitious stuff. There's also the positive to mirrors.

Here's a few

In ancient Greece, the Oracle of Apollo at Delphi enshrined the phrase Gnothi Seauton ("Know Thyself"). Mirrors became potent symbols of wisdom, truth, and profound introspection.

Ancient Egyptians and Greeks associated mirrors with the divine. They were often used in sacred rituals as a symbol of the cosmos and a vessel for the soul.

In traditional Feng Shui, a convex or flat mirror is used as a protective tool to deflect negative energy (Sha Qi) away from a home, while inviting in positive, life-affirming light and prosperity.

In Japan, the bronze mirror (yata no kagami) is one of the three imperial regalia and symbolizes ultimate truth, honesty, and joy. 

There's a saying that, if you want to play with fate, it is said that a mirror that does not break after being dropped, or upon impact, is actually good luck.

According to one myth, if a newlywed couple stands in front of a mirror shortly after becoming man and wife, their souls unite in the spirit world, creating a bond that is stronger than this world and one that will last after death.

That's just some interesting and positive myths around mirrors. But you get what I mean. They're not all bad...

Anyway, moving on a bit because I could go on a very long tangent about mirrors and their history around the world because, again, it's an interest for me.

Lets take a look at Alice in Wonderland.

I remember when this came out and was fascinated that they chose Dorthy to be who she goes up against. It also made me realize just how much in common Alice in Wonderland & The Wizard of Oz have in common.

Here's a few:

They both travel to a fantasy land

They both have a strong desire to return home

They gain new friends and allies

There are magical and nonsensical rules and challenges they each have to face

They're both very curious and intelligent if not young girls

The biggest difference between the two is that Wonderland is more chaotic, absurd, and logic-driven while Oz is more warmer, emotional, and adventure focus... That's if you don't count Wicked logic of the place lol.

Anyway, isn't it interesting that at one point we had season promos that looked like characters looking through a broken mirror?

The looking glass broke and we ended up in Oz.

In S9E3, Rick reads The Wizard of Oz to Judith. It's the last calm moment he gets to have with Michonne and his daughter before he "dies" and has to leave his family behind.

Before we had been in Wonderland... Until the mirror to Wonderland - Noah, our mirror from Alice (Beth) was broken in S5E14 (The same season these promos came from btw).

I can't recall fully if we had anyone else looking through the broken glass, but I find it very interesting that it's Carol and Rick who had the more prominent promos like this. I'm pretty sure they didn't do another one like this for all of the mains in S5 at the time. It's been a while for me but these were the ones I had saved in my TD photo folder sooo I think it was just these two. Correct me if I'm wrong please.

Anyway, the images made me think that it's interesting the mirror broke AFTER Beth "died". Alice was the one who went into the mirror. If the mirror broke with her death, it's obvious it's connected to her. Noah was connected to Beth. He was our mirror. His death "trapped" Beth. A broken mirror isn't the same even if you try to fix it. It'll have a broken reflection. Like a crack.

What do Rick and Carol have to do with coming across the broken glass? To me it makes sense because Rick and Carol were closes - besides Daryl - to Beth from the exchange. Rick was in charge of the exchange. It all went sideways. Shit in a handbasket sideways.

Carol was the last of TF to be with Beth, to probably speak to her at all and possibly the one who gave Beth the idea to hide the scissors and try to take out Dawn. That's not provable unless Carol tells us otherwise but it's highly possible.

Isn't it interesting the one of the two was reading The Wizard of Oz? A story about a girl in a foreign land away from her family after being sucked up and tossed into the world by a tornado. The story works for Rick in a symbolic manor to him being taken by the Helicopter but it also could work for Beth's hidden story that I think we're still waiting to be revealed.

The last image of Beth being held by Daryl in the parking lot of the hospital, if you look you can see a storm approaching in the distance

Noah broke, the mirror broke, Alice got trapped in Wonderland and the rest of team family ended up in Oz.

Think about it with me. I mentioned the similarities between the two being that they’re both magical fantasy lands. However I didn’t talk about the differences in the lands.

Wonderland is chaotic and dreamlike. The exchange scene in the hospital was chaotic with Dutch angles to create a dreamlike/crazy set up from someone’s POV. In wonderland things rarely make sense, conversations are nonsense, and rules constantly change. It’s meant to feel confusing and surreal. That’s how the exchange and some of S5A was.

Oz is set up with logical laws and citizens like a real fantasy country Dorothy was dropped into. It has cities, governments, cultures, maps, and consistent rules. Even though it’s magical, it functions like an actual world. Sound familiar? Alexandria became TFs Oz from Wonderland. '

TF got trapped in a storm. A storm lead Dorothy to Oz. A storm lead TF to Aaron who lead them to Oz.

I also want to point out that another reason we have Rick in the mirror/broken glass is he's Dorothy to Beth being Alice. But what about Carol? She's in the glass to. I haven't quit pinned down her reason but I think Carol could be in Oz like Rick. I'll touch more on this later but first Rick.

Rick read The Wizard of Oz to Judith during his last moments with her, not realizing they would be his last moments for awhile with his daughter. If you wanna see more of Rick's relation to The Wizard of Oz, I'd take a look at more competent TDers that are explaining it. My input on it is that Rick is Dorothy Gale.

L. Frank Baum, the author of The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, was a great admirer of Lewis Carroll's work. Baum intentionally crafted Dorothy as an "American Alice", centering his stories around a relatable, grounded child exploring a strange new world.

Lets explore this a little. See Rick was a regular guy working as a Sheriff and having marital issues with his wife. In a matter of seconds he was shot and then woke up in a strange world from his own. Dorothy is an ordinary girl from Kansas who got swept up into OZ in the blink of an eye from a sudden tornado.

In the beginning of the series, much of Rick's story is trying to find his way to his family, Carl and Lori. Later on, after being separated by the bridge exploding, Rick is once again trying to find his way back to his family, his home. Dorothy's entire journey is her trying to get through Oz back to her family, back to her home.

Rick and Dorothy both create a found family of sorts. Dorothy with the Scarecrow, Tin Man, and the Cowardly Lion. Rick with his fellow survivors create Team Family - as we call them - and watch out for one another. Also, while also with their groups they each encounter weird and dangerous communities. Dorothy through Oz and Rick through a ravaged America.

The biggest thing about Rick and Dorothy is that they're both changed by their journey. Dorothy comes to learn more about herself and what kind of person she is. Rick changes from the duty heavy Sheriff to someone almost unrecognizable. The good elements are still in him but he's hardened around them.

Both characters traveled through increasingly strange lands, gather companions they'd never have know otherwise, and face monsters in search of their home and their place to belong. S1 Rick and Final Season Rick both rode the tornado to Oz. Rick and Dorothy both found their way back home.

That's a basic breakdown of Rick is Dorothy.

Overall I'd say these two have heavy ties to the stories of the mentioned characters.

So what about Carol? Well she's a little harder for me to pin down and I'm still honestly working that out so I'll not go too deep into her discussion but I think Carol is a broken mirror that wasn't supposed to make it to Oz and herself is still partially stuck in Wonderland. Pieces of her are in-between basically.

I'll maybe write a post on that later once I get my thoughts lined out better but just know Carol plays a big part in the story telling as Rick and Daryl and Beth do about the entire Coda craze and what has been happening afterwards.