pain of virago

Yeah I think I had accidentally added the ‘contradictory labels’ tag on the last reblog since it’s set as like a ‘default’ tag for this blog 😅

I’ll be more careful in the future!

Just to make sure and not to offend anyone;

Would discrimination towards hetgnc people be considered anti subtliden? I would personally consider it towards gnc people as a whole to be (since people consider gnc individuals to be ‘contradictory’) but I just want to make sure!

Hi! I talk about things sometimes, and I'm just slowly getting used to being talked about this way, haha. I think what you're doing here is pretty sweet!

Currently, we've been working out specific definitions of our own groups of people, and working outwards to expand greater understanding of GNC people overall. So... not yet.

Discrimination against GNC people so far has been called GNCphobia for ease of communication. Now, we also have Gynarchophobia (masc/gnc women) and Cuphobia (masc/gnc men).

I think the previous anon touched on how many blogs similar to yours attempted to coin terms for communities they spend little time curating/caring for. We have many contenders with definitions that don't match lived experiences or propose decent sociopolitical analysis, Which is why you see us hesitant to adopt a certain way of thinking or external label.

these two things arent the same thing tho

im sorry that acknowledging this issue doesnt help you, that still doesnt mean its no help to others

and anyway, studies have shown that gender nonconforming people are treated differently than trans people, based on their identity. if the same person claims to be a gc trans person or a gnc cis person, queerphobes will go out of their way to misgender them in either direction

if a gc trans person claims to be their real gender, theyre intentionally misgendered as an insult. if a gnc cis person claims to be their agab, theyre intentionally misgendered as an insult. trans gnc people get misgendered regularly by both the lgbt and the gc/cishet communities regardless

its almost like these are two different groups that can overlap. both are treated in shitty ways, and claiming that the discrimination gnc people experience is just misdirected homophobia/transphobia is still denying its existence and protecting it from criticism

to deny gncphobia is also claiming that gnc trans people arent oppressed "because theyre following the gender roles assigned to them at birth", which is ridiculous as well, because a)

- every gnc trans person i know grew up presenting as a gnc cis person (ie tomboys that grew into fem trans men and femboys that grew into butch trans women)

and b)

- even trans gnc people that never changed their presentation still spent most of their life being misgendered

gnc people of all kinds face oppression that is connected to but not the same as transphobia or homophobia. gnc cis people have distinct experiences that gc cis people dont have, and gnc trans people have distinct experiences that passing/gc trans people dont have, and so on. this is not a microlabel, this is a massive issue that effects a wide array of people and shouldnt be discounted or overlooked

Not all trans people are GNC, and we face significant targetting in and out of out community for Gender Non Conformity and being Trans. Check my page if you want a taste of screenshots, asks, and personal experiences backing that up.

Saying "we're all genderfreaks" is vastly simplifying a broader issue GNC Trans people face that GC Trans people do not. It's actual marginalization caused by how people think. What causes people to think this way is lack of knowledge, terminology, or being educated on our specific experiences as being both GNC Trans. To call our lived experience manifested as language "microlabeling" is missing the point of our community being a pillar for GNC people as a class, I exist as a intersection of being both GNC and Trans. Calling all trans persons "GNC" simply for the act of changing their gender disregards my existence as a feminine man who happens to be trans.

We still transiton. We still take horomones. We still need the same rights. Yet, within our communities we have to fight for our respect. Why? We have to fight hard to prove our own existence to people who should understand us. Why? We have to explain the concept of an androgynous person, masculine women, feminine men as GNC, but Trans-GNCs are all of a sudden 'detrans' 'pooners' 'hefabs' Why? Why are we treated so differently when "we're all genderfucks" ?

So far we have:

♁ - Earth (Virago)

⚴ - Pallas/Athena (Virago)

⚳ - Ceres (Mollis)

⚴ - Juno (Mollis)

The last one you meant ⚵, right?

Both contenders for the Virago symbols are very hard to choose between. But the edge has to go to Pallas because of an attached history the first symbol can have to christian symbology (even if the design is really cool). The only downside for some may beis that Pallas looks too similar to the venus symbol, I particularly don't mind.

The mollis ones...symbolically make less sense, but I like the designs. Both signs take from goddesses of fertility and motherhood (like literally every other goddess, lets be real). Which isn't really something for feminine men.

for the ⚴ vs ♁ debate: personally i love both equally. what i think would break the tie for me is what we end up choosing for the mollis symbol and whether the symbology fits best. they should look good together

i do want to say in regards to ♁: it is the alchemic symbol of antimony, and yessss it gets its name from being used to poison monks. i get how that may be offensive, i do have mixed feelings on the bible because it condemns women dressing and living masculine and vice versa, but i do acknowledge theres some sects of christianity that are more progressive

mainly, antimony symbolizes wildness, and the beastial nature within, fighting "domestication", as well as has associations to wolves, which have no gendered hierarchy and share hunting and rearing offspring equally

but i do think having athena represent the virago community is cool as hell, i love that shes associated with both war and wisdom, and that shes usually got a weapon in hand. also most early depictions had her in masculine clothes which. yes

now for mollis: i have a few different suggestions

if we wanted it to match with antimony/metals, we could go with 🜚, which is the symbol for gold, associated with perfection and transformation. sounds a little fancy i know, but i like that it somewhat resembles the male symbol but different, and because it goes with the color orange

it is also represented by ☉, which symbolizes the sun (a lot of materials were associated with planets) and the god apollo, who was considered "the most beautiful of the gods" and was associated with healing, prophecy, archery, poetry and music

one reason i like this one is because ♁ + ☉ = 🜱, so we'd have something built in for nonbinary people to use

lastly theres also eros, son of aphrodite, another beautiful male god of love and desire. this is his symbol:

i do like that it also slightly resembles the male symbol but different. ...only i couldnt find a text character for it. there are a few alternatives we could use, like ❤︎➶ or maybe 𓆩❤︎𓆪 since the guys got wings. could also use 💘 but i dont love it because then i think of that winged baby 🤣