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When Karen had Frank at gunpoint and he put his hands on his head, it struck me how easily he was willing to become vulnerable to appease her. I'm sure he could have charged at her, knocked the gun from her hands, and forced her to listen, but he chose to submit and make himself vulnerable and somewhat defenseless in order to reach her and get her to believe him.
That's a level of vulnerability that Frank doesn't gift to many people.
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The string that originally connected Frank Castle and Karen Page wasn't necessary a red string of fate, but it got so stained with blood that it turned into a red string of fate (or of circumstance, I guess)
We need more women characters who are Male Protagonists. You know. Slightly haggard. She's splashing cold water on her face and gripping the edge of the sink staring in the mirror for a minute. She's coping badly with her deadwife
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Very revealing to see all these guys talking about how out of character Karen is this season for wanting to kill Dex and Fisk. Really goes to show they never cared for her character and therefore didn't actually pay attention to her and they themselves didn't see beyond Karen's polished act. I've seen some saying Karen was always against Matt being Daredevil ?? (nope she looked up to Daredevil and other vigilantes) That she left him last season because he tried to kill Dex ?? (nope it's because he abandoned her) That "she suddenly wants to kill literally everyone now" ?? (nope she specifically said to just cut the head off the snake AKA Fisk and wants Pointdexter gone because he did actually do a lot of what Wesley only promised to do to her with killing her loved ones and making her suffer it/trying to kill her and she killed Wesley for it) Karen's traumatized about Wesley (sure because killing's not easy, which Frank himself has said and she's afraid about what it says about her with how it made her feel and that she doesn't regret it. It also comes down to what's better? The trauma of killing an evil person or the trauma of loved ones and innocent people dying at the hands of that evil person? It's not a good situation either way but Karen will take the first option over the second. That's why she's willing to bear the burden, which is a burden yes but a preferable one to the other option) I have many, many problems with this season but Karen wanting to kill Dex and Fisk makes perfect sense. Her telling Matt not to kill Fisk in season 3 was about saving Matt's soul not that Fisk didn't deserve it or for religious reasons and considering now they've been proven once again that the system does not in fact hold for either Dex or Fisk, and what they lost as a result of it + the terrible consequences it's all caused, no surprise she's thinking it would've been better if they were gone.
People love to talk about wanting complex characters, and then Karen Page steps in front of them and they have a meltdown. And, honestly? She's not even hard to get? Literally all you have to do is watch the show and who she is, is right there. I'm not surprised, though, that the dudebros of the world have no clue what's going on with her. I mean, half the time they seem to just be purposefully deciding every single character point for her is actually the exact opposite.
I agree with what you've said here, though. Her conflictions and guided desires regarding everything (vigilantes, killing, vengeance, revenge) have always, really, been her primary focus from the very first season. Her drive to uncover Fisk, to work with Ben, then Ellison, her views on Daredevil, her views on Matt's views and the distinction between killing and just beating someone almost to death, her views on Frank and the Punisher -- both separately and together.
Half of her conflict, apart from the way she always wants to dive head first into the problem, has been about her support of vigilantes and how Matt wants to decide for her what vigilante is acceptable and what vigilante crosses the line and his not liking her own answer. She's not a blood thirsty killing machine, she's almost more just pragmatic about the world they're living in. She killed Wesley and literally came out of it traumatized, but even more fortified towards her stance. Because, Wesley is evil. She would've died if she hadn't killed him. He would've gone on to help Fisk kill even more innocent people had he walked away from that dock.
She has first hand experience on both sides of the coin. An evil man gets to walk around the world and good people like Ben get beaten to death. Good people like Foggy get shot outside of a bar. An evil man gets stopped in his tracks and someone else innocent gets to live down the line. It's a burden, but it's one that she has learned she's capable of living with, even though it's hard.
Nothing is surprising about her falling into the slot of 'some kills are necessary,' because she's gotten nothing but evidence that the system will fail in regards to punishing those that cause the most harm. All evidence has said to her: people who aren't handled will come back and take more good from the world.
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