#yn560

We previously posted an article showing that it is possible to sync the original YN-560 with a popup flash as commander and a Nikon SB-800.  However, there were limits to the shutter speed that could be used.

BFP reader XiaoLi Zhang tested the Yongnuo YN-560 II's ability to sync with Nikon's wireless flash and found that the YN-560II can sync with virtually no limits!  Hit the jump to see the remarkable results of XiaoLi's tests.

XiaoLi has a Nikon D7000 and two Nikon CLS-compatible speedlights (SB-700 & SB-900), and he wanted to add two more flashes for special effects (i.e. background light & rim light) while using SB-900 and SB-700 as key & fill light.  Because the rim light and background light would be used primarily in manual mode, XiaoLi considered at the YN560II for this purpose. 

Initially, I let XiaoLi know about the results of our previous test, showing that it is possible to sync the YN-560 with Nikon's wireless flash system, but that there were significant limits, such as the flash sync mode and shutter speed.  I had not tested the YN-560II, nor had I used more than one Nikon CLS flash and more than one manual slave flash. 

XiaoLi did a test using his Nikon D7000, SB-900 and SB-700, using different modes for SB-900, SB-700, and YN560II, as well as front/rear sync, shutter speed combinations. Here were his results:

1. Simple optical trigger with TTL.

D7000 popup: TTL, 

YN560II: S2 (digital slave)

SB-700: SU-4, 

SB-900: SU-4

Result: all flashes fire

2. Simple optical trigger with manual flash.

D7000 popup: M, 

YN560II: S1 (non-digital slave) 

SB-700:SU-4, 

SB-900:SU-4

Result: all flashes fire

3. CLS + YN-560II in S1 (non-digital slave mode)

D7000 popup: commander only, 

YN560II: S1, SB-900 (group A) & SB-700 (group B) in either TTL or M

Result: SB-900 and SB-700 do not fire (no matter front or rear sync)

So far everything is as expected.  Here's where it gets interesting....

4. CLS with two channels (Group A and B), YN-560II in digital slave mode.

D7000 popup: commander only, 

YN560II: S2, 

SB-900 (group A) & SB-700 (group B) in either TTL or M

Result: all flashes fire (no matter front or rear sync), with two instances when SB-900 & SB-700 don't fire.  XiaoLi tried shutter speeds between 1/10-1/400s, YN560II will sync up to 1/320s, at 1/400s YN560II doesn't fire.

5. CLS with one channel (Group A or B), YN-560II in digital slave mode.

D7000 popup: commander only, 

YN560II: S2, 

SB-900 & SB-700 in the same group (A or B), TTL or M

Result: all flashes fire (no matter front or rear sync).

I found it surprising that XiaoLi was able to sync at up to 1/3 stop faster than the natural sync speed of the D7000.  But the story doesn't stop there.  I later requested XiaoLi to try using the YN560II at full power rather than low power (he was using 1/128).

Here was his protocol in this second round of tests:

"I ran a quick test today with all three flashes in full power M (also run SB-900 in TTL to confirm flashes will still fire in TTL & M combination, in this case I don't have power control of the TTL flash). I want to have both audio and visual confirmation of whether the flashes fire, so I have to use a 9-stop ND filter to block a lot light. ...

Anyway, the results are in all the following cases

1.YN560II: S2 M 1/1; SB-900: group A, M 1/1; SB-700: group B, M 1/1

2.YN560II: S2 M 1/1; SB-900: group A, TTL +3 Ev; SB-700: group B, M 1/1

3.YN560II: S2 M 1/1; SB-900 & 700: group A, TTL +3 Ev or M 1/1"

And here are his amazing results:

"Shutter speed between 1/250 to 1/8000 (max of my D7000), in all cases all three flashes will always fire. I am surprised that in my last test in low power output (1/128) YN560II only sync up to 1/320s yet at full power YN560II sync all the way up to 1/8000s." 

From left to right: the SB-80DX, the SB-800, and the SB-26

Is there any reason to buy an old flash in this age of wireless TTL?  If you are looking for a multiple flash setup, some of these old dinosaurs may actually offer better value than even the YongNuo YN-560. In this post, I'd like to discuss older Nikon flashes*, and which ones may be of particular interest to us amateur photogs (especially strobists).  This information is useful not just to Nikonians but to Canonistas and in fact to users of other cameras as well. *By "old" flash, I mean those that preceded the SB-800 and SB-600. Usage on DSLRs Let's get something straight: unless your camera is a Nikon D100, or from the Nikon D1 family or D2 family, these flashes will probably not be very useful on-camera.  Although they have TTL capability, they were designed with an older kind of TTL technology that doesn't work with most Nikon DSLRs beginning with the D70.  Some of them do feature an Auto mode, which will adjust flash exposure automatically based on the amount of flash reflected but you have to manually input the ISO and aperture you're using.  It's also possible to use manual flash exposure mode, but that would require even more frequent adjustments.  Because of these limitations, I wouldn't recommend them as your sole flash, or even your second flash (I would instead recommend a wireless-capable flash).

Strobist use

These older flashes are much more useful for off-camera flash work.  Some of them (generally the ones that aren't so old) have most of the features that are useful for strobists such as ample power, a decent range of manual power adjustment, manual zoom adjustment, bounce and swivel capability and sync ports.  The best feature?  Price :D When used as off-camera flash, many of the Nikon-specific features become irrelevant.  When viewed this way, these flashes become useful even to users of non-Nikon cameras. To help you shop for these flashes, here is a list that groups them according to power.  I also noted significant strengths and weaknesses in bold.

Note: all Guide Numbers are stated in feet, for 35mm at ISO 100.

Low-powered:  

SB-23: GN: 66 ft. No zoom, no bounce, no swivel. No manual power adjustment (always at full power).

SB-30. GN: 52 ft.  No zoom, no swivel.  Manual power adjustment only at 1/1, 1/8, 1/32.

SB-50 (has optical slave). GN: 70 ft.  Zooms from 14-50mm. No swivel.  No manual power adjustment (always at full power).

Medium-powered (about as powerful as an SB-600):

SB-22: GN of 82 feet. 28mm only - no zoom. No swivel.  No manual power adjustment (always at full power).

SB-22s: GN of 92 feet. 28mm only - no zoom. No swivel.  No manual power adjustment (always at full power).

SB-27: GN of 98 feet.  Zooms from 20-70mm.  No bounce, no swivel.  Manual power down to 1/16 only.

SB-600: GN of 98 feet. Zooms from 14-85mm.  Fully compatible with modern Nikon DSLRs.

High-powered (about as powerful as an SB-800):

SB-24: GN of 118 feet.  Zooms from 24-85mm.  Manual power down to 1/16 only.

SB-25: GN of 118 feet.  Zooms from 20-105mm.  Manual power down to 1/64. SB-28: GN of 118 feet.  Zooms from 20-105mm.  Manual power down to 1/64. More compact than SB-24, SB-25, SB-26; similar in size to the SB-800. High-powered with optical slaves: SB-26: GN of 118 feet.  Has Auto mode.  Zooms from 20-85mm.  Manual power down to 1/64. Separate buttons for changing bounce angle and swivel angle -- this is mildly annoying. SB-80: GN of 125 feet. Zooms from 14-105mm.  Manual power down to 1/128.  Has Auto and Auto Aperture mode.  More compact than SB-26; similar in size to the SB-800.

SB-800:  GN of 125 feet. Zooms from 14-105mm.  Manual power down to 1/128.  Has Auto and Auto Aperture mode. Fully compatible with modern Nikon DSLRs.

COMPATIBILITY WITH ADVANCED WIRELESS LIGHTING The SB-26 and SB-80 are of particular interest not only because they have optical slaves but because those optical slave modes can work with Nikon CLS Advanced Wireless Lighting.  No you can't adjust these flashes remotely, but you can trigger them all the way to your camera's natural sync speed and even a little bit beyond that.  (One of these days I'll try to test them with Canon's commander flash as well.) The shot at the top of this post demonstrates their wireless compatibility.  I used a Nikon D300's popup flash as a CLS AWL commander to trigger and remotely adjust the SB-800 in the middle.  The SB-80DX at camera left was in its optical slave mode (SU-4 mode).  The SB-26 at camera right was in its "standard" optical slave mode.  The shot was taken at a shutter speed of 1/320, a third of a stop higher than the natural 1/250 sync speed of the D300. [BTW, caveat: I tested only at 1/64 power.  At full power, the flashes may not be able to recycle fast enough to sync.  I will pin this down in the future.] Another caveat: the Nikon D70 (and I'm supposing the D70S) has a slower AWL signal.  Because the commander signal pulses seem to take longer, the SB-80DX can't seem to sync with the D70's commander flash at any speed.  The SB-26 on the other hand, has a second optical slave mode (the "D" mode -- presumably delay mode for syncing with TTL).  In the D mode, the SB-26 can sync with the D70 commander even at 1/500.  But there's a catch: when the SB-26 is firing, the CLS slave (the SB-800 in this example) gets confused and sometimes doesn't sync. COMPARISON WITH YN-560 Previously, I thought that the YN-560 provided the best value as a strobist flash.  The price is very competitive especially for its power and features (such as optical slave and zoom).  However, I was somewhat ambivalent about using the YN-560 in connection with a CLS AWL setup.  Yes, it is possible to trigger the YN-560 in sync with CLS flashes, but there are numerous restrictions. If you search patiently on eBay, you will find SB-26s and SB-80s for around $125 (at the time of this writing).  It's a $50-60 premium over the YN-560, but you get quite a bit for the extra cash:

More power.  According to speedlights.net, the real guide number of the YN-560 is 34 meters, while the SB-26 is 39 meters.  The SB-80DX isn't listed in the speedlights.net power index but it has the same power as that of an SB-800, with a guide number of 41 meters in that index.

Better CLS AWL compatibility.  While the YN-560 has many restrictions to allow it to sync with CLS AWL, the SB-26 and SB80DX can sync with few issues.

Better user interface.  The YN-560 has been criticized for having a power meter that is difficult to read.  The SB-26 and SB-80DX both have LCD screens and a reasonably user-friendly interface.

TTL quench pin.  You may not care about TTL if you are a hardcore strobist.  However, the TTL quench pin enables the SB-26 and SB-80DX to be adjusted remotely via a Radiopopper JrX Studio.  Actually, the same is true for many other old Nikon TTL flashes. 

TTL sync port.  The YN-560 has a PC sync port, as do the SB-26 and SB-80DX.  However, the SB-26 and SB-80DX also have the Nikon 3-pin TTL sync port.  That allows them to be used in some wired TTL setups, and incidentally allows the use of a Radiopopper JrX Studio without an RP Cube (if you have a miniplug to 3-pin cable like this).

Auto mode.  If you need TTL-like capabilities, the SB-26 and SB-80DX both have an Auto mode.  The YN-560 does not.

Nikon quality versus Yongnuo quality.  No contest.

WARNING: I have ZERO evidence whether this works.  You may kill your YN560 in the process.  I am sure this will violate whatever warranty YongNuo or the seller may have.  Do this at your own risk!!! The Nikon SB-800 normally has a swivel range of -180 degrees to +90 degrees.  In other words it can only swivel 90 degrees to the right.  There is a mod out there for brave SB-800 owners that will let you swivel the head up to 135 degrees to the right: http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/08/how-to-break-your-sb-800s-little-neck.html Being somewhat of a risk-taker, I did it to my SB-800.  It was extremely hard to twist the head -- like a very stubborn jar.  A couple of times, I nearly gave up (because of the mental stress of potentially breaking an expensive flash).  But eventually the head turned.  I did this mod a couple of years ago and have never experienced a problem.  (Do so at your own risk!!! And of course be aware that the SB-700 and SB-900 can turn 180 degrees both directions without any mods.) CAUTION!  WARNING!  DANGER!  Do not try this at home! Out of curiosity, I tried the swivel mod on my dead YN-560 (1st generation - with plastic foot).  Let me emphasize it again: I was doing this to an already dead YN-560 (my YN-560 died when it fell in the water) so I had nothing to lose.  If you want to try this on a working YN-560, do so at your own risk.  Please note further that Nikon's reliability is way ahead of YongNuo.  I'm pretty sure an SB-800 will handle more abuse than will a YN-560. That said, I twisted my dead YN-560's head and found that it was pretty easy to twist it to the right.  Easier than opening a bottle.  I don't know what that means, and I have no way to tell if it damaged my YN-560 further.  I also don't know if the 2nd generation YN-560 with metal foot is any different in this regard. Anyway, now my dead YN-560's head twists 135 degrees to the right:

It must have started about a week ago, when I was looking around at a camera store and saw a Yongnuo YN460-RX flash -- Yongnuo's latest flash, with built-in radio manual and radio TTL remote adjustment.  My poor YN560 sensed that I was a little distracted and knew something was going on.  It put two and two together, figured its days were numbered, and formulated a plan. The YN560 saw its opportunity when we went to the beach this past weekend.  I used the YN560 as an off-camera flash, mounted on a Propet umbrella bracket, firing through a Creative Light translucent umbrella.  For these shots, I waded into the water with our toddler.

I took some real estate photos today for a friend who's a broker.  When I got to the house, it was midday with the sun almost directly overhead.  I would have preferred to take photos close to the golden hour, but I had a scheduling conflict.  The overhead sun though, was perfect for one of the rooms - a hallway with a skylight. Here is the first test shot - all ambient (ISO: 200, f/4, 1/60):

The first thing I tried to improve the shot was to add more light in the green room.  I set the YN-560 in the green room on a window sill (so that it would be consistent with the natural light), bouncing to the white ceiling.  I used the YN-560 in optical slave mode and triggered it with the D300's popup flash in manual mode.  The YN-560 triggered successfully even though it was not in the line of sight, and the popup was on 1/128 power.  I kept the exposure value the same but used f/8 for sharpness (ISO: 200, f/8, 1/15), and I used the YN-560 on 1/4 power.

I didn't like how the popup lit the balustrade, so I attached an SG-3IR infrared filter to cover the popup flash.  This time, 1/128 power did not work.  With the SG-3IR, however, I could use the popup flash on full power without affecting the exposure.  So that's what I did:

Next, I wanted to brighten the hallway a bit without destroying the ambience from the ambient :) I tried putting an SB-800 in the room at camera left, aimed at the ceiling.  The SB-800 was on manual, in SU-4 mode, I believe at 1/8 power.  I again kept the exposure the same.

It created a shadow on the ceiling that I found distracting.  I tried bouncing it instead, behind me.

The brightening effect on the room was enough but I felt that the balustrade was illuminated too much.  I reduced the power on the SB-800 by a stop:

A crude lighting diagram (the red flash is the YN-560 and the green flash is the SB-800):

 Comparing the original ambient-only shot with the final shot:

I tried taking a shot of the same hallway from a different angle. This time I tried putting the Sb-800 on the window sill of the room on camera left, bouncing to the ceiling.  A lighting diagram:

I adjusted power so that its shadow would be almost invisible.

I like the interface of the YN-560 because I find it simple and quick to make adjustments. But one of the things that took getting used to is the absence of a label for the power level. Instead, you have to count the number of LEDs that are lit in order to determine the power setting or the adjustments in 1/8 EV steps. David Hobby lamented this in his review of the YN-560. Fortunately, there's a space above the LEDs that can be conveniently used for a label. I experimented with different font sizes and margins and found one that worked reasonably well. A PDF version is below. If you wish to modify it, you can get the Word version instead. (I believe the files have no viruses but please double-check. I don't want to be an unwitting accomplice in spreading any malware.) I printed the label on an Avery label then cut it to size, leaving just a thin border around the label itself. With the thin border, the sticker can be aligned with the edge of the display window on the back of the flash and will be exactly the width of the display window. Word format: