#virtual screening

Various Letterboxd reviews mention the anxiety-inducing way The Assistant allows us to watch Jane “probe her place in the established, tacit system of complacency… knowing that everyone around her is motivated by self-interest to pretend it doesn’t exist” (Josh Lewis). “Green encourages her viewers to pay close attention to what’s really going on beneath the surface,” (KristineJean) in “a horror movie of soul-sickening ambience” (Scott Tobias).

Though The Assistant’s film festival run was cut short, and the closure of cinemas around the world hurts for a lot of us, there’s something about the claustrophobia of social distancing and the intimacy of the small screen that maybe suits this picture. Nevertheless, seeing the film in a cinema in ‘the before time’ highlighted for Alyssa Heflin the ocean of different opinions that can come from misunderstood subtext: “Watching this in a room where you can hear people snickering at the girl and asking what the point of all this is adds a certain extra… incendiary level to an already deeply angry viewing experience.” Indeed, discomfort and crossed wires seem to define the messages at the core of The Assistant.

Kitty Green talks to Ella Kemp about the influence of Chantal Akerman, the infinite watchability of Julia Garner, and the oddness of growing up with a Nazi-free edit of The Sound of Music.

Jane (Julia Garner) takes another call from the boss in ‘The Assistant’.

The Assistant is your first fiction feature. The subject matter feels so immediate—what made you choose to not make a documentary of this, given your track record in that realm? Kitty Green: I went to fiction film school, and I made fiction short films. I then found work in documentary, so I made two feature-length docs. With this one, I was looking at exploring the micro-aggressions, the tiny moments, gestures, looks, glances, behaviors that often go overlooked when covering the #MeToo movement. We often talk about the bad men and the misconduct, but this is more about a cultural, structural problem. So I was hoping to amplify the more quietly insidious behavior that we need to address if we really want things to improve. A fiction film allowed me to hone in on details—close up—and the way you can take an annoyance through the emotional experience, putting the audience in the shoes of the youngest woman in a toxic work environment.

How did you decide to keep the timeframe to just one day in Jane’s life rather than fleshing it out over a longer period? The lead character is in such a complicated position. It’s such a difficult set of circumstances, the machinery that this predator has created around himself. I wanted to untick that, to discuss how difficult it is to be a young woman in that environment. So the day, the routine, was really important. What she was experiencing, how she was experiencing it; every task she did I gave equal weight to. Whether she was photocopying, binding something suspicious, you experience it as you would if you were in her shoes. That was important to me.

I had my fists clenched the whole time, when she’d be eating cereal, or washing up mugs, waiting for something awful to happen. Totally. It’s exploring misconduct, but it’s also looking at a whole spectrum, from gendered work environments, toxic work environments, through all these environments that support predatory behavior. I was interested in what the entry points are, without conflating those issues and being able to explore all the cultural systemic things we need to unpick to move forward.

The film is so focused on Jane, played by Julia Garner. How did you choose her? The script is pretty bare when it describes who she is, she’s just Jane. I didn’t have anyone in mind, really. I told my casting agent that we’re watching this character do the most mundane tasks, so it was important that she was striking. I said I needed someone infinitely watchable. I had seen Julia in The Americans and I remembered being struck by her, so I immediately wanted to meet her. She really understood the script, it worked out beautifully. We got to create the character together, we had a month of rehearsals where we really went through where she was emotionally at any given point, and Julia is wonderful so it was great.

Matthew Macfadyen and Kitty Green discuss a scene in ‘The Assistant’. / Photo: Ty Johnson

And Matthew Macfadyen—his character feels so crucial and his performance so pivotal, even in just one scene. What were you looking for when casting him? I’ve been a fan of his for forever, but I hadn’t seen Succession. Apparently the character has some similarities? I’ve only watched Succession in the past week… Somebody had to send me a clip to prove he could do an American accent! Matthew really brought something to that character and took it to another level. It’s so insidious what he does. He and Julia worked so beautifully together, it just got better and better every time.

How did you feel watching Succession now and seeing Matthew as Tom Wambsgans? Tom still feels different somehow. But I’ve had a good time watching it, he’s so great. There are parallels for sure!

The language you use in the film is so careful, so much is in the subtext. How do you build tension from these empty spaces? We had a great visual team who were lighting it in an interesting way. There was a lot of oppressive fluorescent lights. The sound was also very important—we had an amazing sound designer, Leslie Schatz, who does a lot of Todd Haynes’ stuff and Gus Van Sant’s. He’d done Elephant, which I thought was phenomenally sound designed. He sent out a team to record every kind of buzz, hum, whir, and we created a lot of tension in that soundscape. It heightens these moments when you can really feel the hum of the fluorescent lights or the alarm of the copier. Things like that are authentic to the world, so it doesn’t feel like you’re manipulating an audience, but they do add a dramatic tension.

During The Assistant’s various film festival screenings so far, audience reactions have been quite varied. Some people find it uncomfortable, some have found it funny. What would you hope an audience member would take from it? Who found it funny…? That’s a strange reaction, and a little terrifying. I think it makes some men uncomfortable and maybe their reaction is to laugh as a way to hide that discomfort. I get a lot of men come up to me afterwards and say, “There are things in that film that maybe I have done.” Those conversations are really important. There’s a scene where the men lean over Jane’s chair and correct her email, little things like that which can be quite patronising even if a lot of men think are helpful. But there’s a point where they cross a line, where maybe it isn’t helpful anymore and it’s a little insulting. I’ve had a few people who are bosses with their own assistants who have watched the film and have said they’re going to treat them a little better, and that maybe they’re wrestling with their own guilt. I think those conversations are great.

Julia Garner prepares for a take on the set of ‘The Assistant’. / Photo: Ty Johnson

What is your favorite one-woman-show performance, where one female actor entirely carries the film? A big influence on The Assistant was Chantal Akerman’s Jeanne Dielman, 23 Quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles. It’s just one woman going about her housework. I remember seeing that in film school and being bowled over by it, I’d never seen anything like it.

Do you have a favorite scene that has ever taken place in an office environment? Offices… I mean, I love The Office? I watched it in preparation for this, even though there’s seemingly nothing in common except for the ways of the photocopier…

It’s important to inhale that kind of comedy while working on something more intense, right? For sure, that helps.

What is your favorite on-screen argument? I watched a lot of them to prepare for the HR scene, as it’s a confrontation between two characters. There’s a scene in Steve McQueen’s Hunger, which is a seventeen-minute dialogue. It’s an incredible scene. It’s not an argument but still some sort of confrontation. I was interested in scenes like that which are really long and stand out from the rest of the movie. James Schamus, one of my producers, made a film called Indignation, which has a confrontation between two characters, which also influenced the structure of what I was doing. I also just watched the latest episode of Better Call Saul in which there’s a sixteen-minute confrontation, which I thought was pretty remarkable.

What was the first film that made you want to be a filmmaker? To be honest I’m not sure. I got a video camera when I was eleven, and I started playing with it in our backyard, making little movies. It wasn’t that I saw a film and tried to replicate it necessarily. But I do have a strange story…

I had a copy of The Sound of Music in which my father had edited out the Nazis, because he was worried I’d be scared of them as a kid. So I have this strange 40-minute version of the film that ends at the wedding scene… And I always thought that was The Sound of Music, and then in high school I figured out there’s this whole other storyline I never knew existed. I guess that taught me the power of editing! I had to go back and rewatch what I’d seen, and it definitely made me think of the craft more as a viewer.

Powerbomb Directed by R. Zachary Shildwachter and B.J. Colangelo

Starring Matt Capiccioni (better known Matt Cross, or M-Dogg 20, or Son of Havoc) as an up-and-coming wrestling star, and Wes Allen as the obsessive fan who kidnaps him, Powerbomb is “The King of Comedy set in the indie wrestling scene, which is a cool fucking concept if nothing else,” according to Dustin Baker. “Luckily, there’s some witty writing and good performances to back up that concept to create something that’s surprisingly a lot of fun.”

Don’t worry if you know nothing about wrestling, writes Justin Nordell: “As someone who has zero reference point for wrestling, this film not only made it accessible but enthralling!”

A guide to where you can watch Powerbomb can be found on the film’s website.

Arkansas Directed by Clark Duke

Quietly ubiquitous comedic actor Clark Duke (Kick-Ass, Hot Tub Time Machine) directed and co-wrote this neo-noir in which he stars alongside such high-profile talent as Vince Vaughn, John Malkovich and Liam Hemsworth. Everyone agrees that the film wears its influences on its sleeve. Chainsaw Massacre “loved nearly every minute of this deliberately paced descendant of Tarantino and the Coen brothers. [But] comparing it to those […] filmmakers does it a disservice though, because, while you can feel their influence, first-time director Clark Duke does have his own distinct style”.

While noting that it marks another interesting performance in Vaughn’s recent emergence as a worthy cinematic lowlife, Tummis would also “like to point out that Liam Hemsworth was great in this”.

Arkansas is available via various digital outlets, as indicated on its official website.

What She Said: The Art of Pauline Kael Directed by Rob Garver

Before the Letterboxd era, film criticism was a much more exclusive realm, and no one critic loomed larger in that realm than The New Yorker’s Pauline Kael—so iconic that true cineastes of her time referred to her simply by her first name. So it behooves you, good Letterboxd member, to familiarize yourself with this master of the form via this new documentary.

In a review that feels like it could apply to any number of Letterboxd members, kmarus says “From what I’ve encountered of her criticism, Kael and I disagree on a lot of things, but one thing that is readily apparent to anyone who reads her writing is that she genuinely cares about movies”.

Letterboxd’s London correspondent (and professional critic) Ella Kemp felt personally validated watching the film. “It’s magic, she’s magic, this is why we needed her and why we always need movies, and why I want to keep talking about them. It’s nice if you read me, if you like me or if you agree with me—but even if you don’t, I know I’ll be sticking around for a while anyway. I’m nowhere near done yet.”

You can rent the film here.

Slay The Dragon Directed by Barak Goodman and Chris Durrance

The insidious and nebulous practice of gerrymandering is the focus of this acclaimed documentary. As member Andrew Chrzanowski ominously intones, the film is “never more timely than right here and right now” and “demands you to watch, so you may witness in a comprehensive and detailed way the metastasis of the most malignant cancer on our democracy: gerrymandered districts and redrawn borders by Republicans, especially after the 2010 elections”.

Guyatthemovies says the film “does a phenomenal job of taking a topic that may seem confusing for most who are not familiar and breaking it down to simplistic terms, explaining the impact of gerrymandering [through] well-known examples” and that “this is a must-watch for anyone concerned about the state of politics today”.

You can support your favorite theater by renting the film here.

Judy & Punch Directed by Mirrah Foulkes

Mia Wasikovska and Damon Herriman, two of the more interesting Australian actors working in film today, and each possessed of a fantastically cinematic face, star in this one-of-a-kind film as a couple operating a marionette show in a town about to bubble over with tension. Like the classic puppet characters that title the film, they come to blows.

The film is the feature-directing debut of Aussie actor and filmmaker Mirrah Foulkes, and Letterboxd member CJ Johnson says she “announces herself as a feature auteur of serious talent and limitless potential with […] a film whose great artfulness is only outdone by its sheer, breath-taking originality”.

Jess V.K. warns us to “go into this film with no expectations, because whatever you were expecting is not what you will see”.

Rent the film here.

On A Magical Night Directed by Christophe Honoré

This French comedy (of sorts) presents a fresh perspective on a very French activity: infidelity. It begins with a woman, Maria (Chiara Mastroianni, daughter of Italian-French acting royalty Marcello Mastroanni and Catherine Deneuve) deciding to leave her husband, and taking up residence across the street where she can observe him.

As Allison M. explains, “like a modernized version of A Christmas Carol, spirits living and dead come to haunt Maria to help her make a decision about whether or not she should return to her husband. It is complete with a phantom baby, reference to a past threesome, and kissing cousins”.

The film caused Gmacauley to ruminate: “Have you ever thought to yourself that when you get old you’d like to travel to the past and sleep with your significant other while they’re young again? Well now I have.”

Watch it here; and also seek out Nicolas Bedos’ marital fantasy romp, La Belle Époque.

The Assistant Directed by Kitty Green

This austere take on the #MeToo era stars Ozark breakout Julia Garner as a bottom-rung assistant to a never-seen, New York-based film producer clearly modeled on Harvey Weinstein. Through one long workday, we are witness to the manipulative practices that enable such a figure, without ever landing on a single incident that she can cite as tangible proof of his behavior, which helps detail the impossibility of her—and countless others’—situation.

While the film’s understated style has thrown some viewers off, that’s entirely the point according to Ryne Walley, who says it “aims true with unwavering confidence. The calculated pace and concise nature of The Assistant hides very little, echoing the countless cases of abuse and depravity that’ve been disclosed… an agonizingly taut feat of filmmaking… Your heart sinks with each passing hour”.

“So quietly powerful, this is a female film through and through. Gut wrenching in the simplest way,” writes Letterboxd member Katie.

Ella Kemp interviewed Green about The Assistant for Letterboxd. The film’s official website lists various VOD options.

Capital in the Twenty-First Century Directed by Justin Pemberton

French economist Thomas Piketty’s 2013 book about income equality forms the basis of this documentary, which takes on a new pertinence in the coronavirus era.

“It’s a sobering trip,” says Joey Jepson. “As if Covid-19 wasn’t enough to send you into a deep depression, Capital in the Twenty-First Century presents a thesis that seems to indicate that if we don’t course correct, we will see a further divide and evaporation of the middle-class.”

Michael agrees: “Very clearly and lucidly explains why we’re fucked if we don’t start regulating capital.” Eep.

Rent the film here.

Spaceship Earth Directed by Matt Wolf

The 1991 biosphere experiment—in which a group of people sealed themselves off from the world (hey!) to investigate human self-sustainability—is the subject of this documentary, which, like Capital in the Twenty-First Century, also hits a little different in the current moment.

Kellyabailey is on board: “I’m fuckin inspired, man. I wanna see what I’m capable of and finally start that commune I’ve been dreaming up.”

Smooz was impressed with how the film didn’t make fun of its subjects: “It’s rare for a documentarian […] dealing with kooks to produce a movie with any sort of empathy. This movie takes the kooks involved in one of the kookiest, most ridiculed projects in recent decades and honestly shows their successes, visionary moments, shortcomings, and failures while resisting the urge to dunk on them and give them swirlies.”

Letterboxd editor-in-chief Gemma Gracewood spoke to Wolf about his film—and what movies he’d choose to take with into a biosphere—in this interview. Rent the movie here.

Aren’t You Happy Directed by Susanne Heinrich

Those in the mood for something different might do well to check out this aesthetically bold German film—think Wes Anderson meets The Love Witch meets the movie Robert De Niro takes Cybill Shepherd to see on their ‘date’ in Taxi Driver—following a young woman named Mädchen (Marie Rathscheck) through various strange encounters.

Arvid Schmiedehausen says it “might be the most artistic film I have ever watched. It is highly ambitious in its attempts to deconstruct society and western values through fourteen episodes, with each being a persiflage on one unique aspect of it”. [We had to look up “persiflage” too.]

Ian A. Chapman writes that “not in anyway adhering to convention, Aren’t You Happy melancholically meanders through rendezvous allowing time for delicious dialogue. Visually pleasing, the colour choices neatly frame the scenes and set the tones allowing for a shorthand into the vibe”.

Rent the movie here.

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Biospherians (left to right): Bernd Zabel, Taber MacMullen (top) Mark Van Thillo, Jane Poynter, Linda Leigh, Roy Walford (middle), Abigail Alling and Sally Silverstone (bottom) posing inside Biosphere 2 in 1990. / Photo courtesy of NEON

Wolf talks with Letterboxd’s editor-in-chief Gemma Gracewood about the lessons we can learn from the Biospherians amidst the Covid-19 pandemic, the ten films he’d take into a biosphere with him, and the dangers of ignoring young people.

How (and where) are you during this pandemic? Matt Wolf: I’m doing well. I’m in my living room in the Lower East Side of New York, where I am every day, and I’m doing okay because I'm throwing myself into this film release. It’s been a real relief to have something to do instead of just reading the news and being trapped at home. The timing is uncanny, but I’m seizing the moment. I’m very happy to be participating and doing lots of virtual events and promoting the film so that people will watch it, because I hope that it will give some perspective for what we’re going through.

That’s the next obvious question: how did your work on Spaceship Earth prepare you for this extraordinary moment, and what advice do you have for those of us sheltering in our own tiny biospheres? It’s funny. My producer Stacey Reiss says the Biospherians were in their world for two years; we were in our filmmaking bubble for two years, too. And so, we could relate in that way but we never thought we would relate so vividly to that experience. And I think, you know, talking to the Biospherians, something that they relayed was that it really was a transformative experience, because they were responsible for creating their own atmosphere, for producing the food they needed to eat, and they really couldn’t take anything for granted—even a breath of fresh air. So when they came out they felt a renewed connection to the larger world, and a different sense of responsibility and consequence for their actions.

I hope that in some ways we all feel transformed by this experience, and it allows us to engage with the world in a different way, because we’re going to have to think and act differently now that we really understand in a visual sense how fragile the world really is.

The exterior of Biosphere 2. / Photo courtesy of NEON

Yes, it feels like the Earth is breathing. It’s such an interesting time. Yeah. I think we need to make a connection between climate change and what’s happening now. If we don’t change how we behave, the threat of long-term catastrophe is inevitable. Not to take this to a dark place, but it’s true.

From a filmmaking perspective, we’re living in a time where, with social media and smartphones, we are creating our own content every second of every day. One thing that’s endlessly fascinating about archive-based films like yours, is how lucky we are to have had people—who were not necessarily filmmakers themselves—document these extraordinary experiences. What was it like when you first started diving into that footage? I’m actually always on the lookout for stories that have a strong basis in archival material that can help activate them and bring them into the present. I was certainly determined to tell this story; it was extraordinary and I knew there was a great deal of media coverage. But when I went to meet the Synergists at their ranch, I was brought into this temperature-controlled room that had hundreds of 16mm film canisters, analog video cassettes, thousands of images; it was astonishing that they had had the foresight to not only document what they were doing but also to preserve it in such a meticulous way.

To me it was an indication that they recognized that what they were doing was history, but also kind of poignant because nobody had taken an interest in that archive and tapped into it, so it felt like an incredible opportunity, but also a responsibility as well. It would have been a much less potent film had we not had that material as well as the video diaries that Biospherian Roy Walford shot inside.

For me, it is unprecedented to be able to tell a story—particularly a story with so many narrative twists and turns—that has archival footage that covers literally every beat of the story. I don’t expect that to happen often in my filmmaking career! This was an extraordinary situation.

Biospherian Linda Leigh and tourists. / Photo courtesy of NEON

Okay Matt, you’re heading into the Biosphere, with no internet, and you can only take ten films with you. What are the films that you’d pack to take? To help you choose, we’ll give you some guidelines. What’s the movie you’ve watched the most? I would say the movie I’ve watched the most, ever, is Todd Haynes’ movie Superstar: The Karen Carpenter Story. It was a movie made with Barbie dolls about Karen Carpenter’s life. I have just watched that movie over and over and over again, and it’s a bootleg movie because the Carpenter estate suppressed it. It’s one of those things made of lore, in which people exchanged low-quality file transfers, and I got my hands on a high-quality restoration recently. I love showing it to people who haven’t seen it, and it’s a total joy to watch that movie. That is the movie that I would definitely need to have access to if I could never see anything again.

Can you name a favorite documentary; one that has meaning for you? Every once in a while I watch this documentary that really is in some ways my favorite. To me it’s like taking a bath to watch this film, a bath for my brain. It’s called A Skin Too Few: The Days of Nick Drake. I’ve only been able to find it on YouTube; it’s not in distribution. I’m a fan, but the film is just made in such a delicate and visually precise way. It represents the type of filmmaking that I really love. It’s seemingly straightforward as a documentary, but I think in its subtlety it is really just a soothing and absorbing film.

What’s the film you’d take to entertain your fellow Biospherians on a Friday night? One of my favorites from when i was a kid that I think would be fun to watch on a Friday night is Troop Beverly Hills. If you want just like cotton candy, that would be my version of that.

Shelley Long and her Wilderness Girls in ‘Troop Beverly Hills’ (1989).

A film for the inevitable long, lonely, insomniac nights? If I was feeling depressed and lonely, and like really leaning into those feelings of isolation, maybe like Fassbinder’s Ali: Fear Eats the Soul. I remember that as being a film that was at once devastating but also comforting. Just about human connection and human alienation. I just think it’s so deep and true.

What about a film that you like to impress people with because of the way it looks, or makes you feel? One of my favorite movies that I just love to show to people because it’s so amazing—well, there’s two that fit into that category, movies that are fun to show people because they are unbelievable and true. One is Hail the New Puritan by the artist Charlie Atlas. It’s a documentary about Michael Clark, a kind of punk ballet dancer from London in the 80s, who collaborated with Leigh Bowery and The Fall. Charlie, the filmmaker, made it in the model of A Hard Day’s Night, the Beatles vehicle, and it follows this gay punk ballet dancer on his nightlife and pseudo-celebrity adventures through 80s punk London.

And then my other film that is too good to be true is A Bigger Splash [the 1973 Jack Hazen documentary, not the 2015 Luca Guadagnino feature], which is a similarly constructed documentary about David Hockney that feels like a fiction film staged with all the characters from his orbit during the height of his popularity in swinging London. It’s such a great depiction of an artist’s life and it’s completely baffling how the filmmaker was able to generate such access and to construct a film that feels so dramatized.

What film has had the biggest impact on you, whether for its meaning or for its execution? One of the films that had a big effect on me and that I really think the communal experience is central to, is Derek Jarman’s film Blue. He made it when he was dying of AIDS and it’s a lush soundscape with a kind of like non-linear stream of thoughts coming from Derek Jarman, and a beautiful soundscape, with material from Brian Eno. It’s a feature-length film where the screen is just blue. Every time that film screens in the cinema, I take the opportunity to go because it’s almost a religious experience. A cinematic religious experience. I feel really moved by it but it also is something to share with other people, in an unusual way.

And a film that’s stuck with you since you were young? American Family—the documentary series that gave birth to reality TV. In the 1970s Alan and Susan Raymond made this epic PBS cinema-vérité series that followed this upper-middle-class San Diego, Californian family. In one episode, their son Lance Loud moves to New York and is living at the Chelsea Hotel and his mum comes to visit and he comes out of the closet. It is a unique, different world, many of the Andy Warhol superstars are there. It [felt like] the first time a gay person had appeared on television and the drama unfolds over many episodes.

It was this huge controversy, people thought they were disgusting and perverse for putting their lives on television like this, but it also is kind of mundane and boring, just like a lot of the early cinema vérité, but it really laid the groundwork for what would become reality television, except it’s not constructed for the camera in the way that we expect these shows to be. I like watching serialized family stories like that, and this is the foundation of it.

What’s a recent queer film you’d take in with you? There’s this movie I was obsessed with. I just thought of it the other day: Saint Laurent, by Bertrand Bonello. It came out a few years ago and it’s a completely narcotic, kaleidoscopic biopic, and I think it’s so rare that biopics actually inhabit the psyches of their famous protagonist and that the actors don’t just feel like they’re doing pantomime. This film really captures not only the disintegrating psychology of Yves Saint Laurent, but also the context of the gay subcultures of Paris in 1970s and the 80s. It’s this super-vivid depiction of subculture, but through a very narcotic lens. I just was obsessed with that film. It’s not really considered ‘queer film’, I think it’s more considered a biopic, but to me it’s one of the more interesting depictions of queer culture in recent years.

Gaspard Ulliel as Yves Saint Laurent in Bertrand Bonello’s ‘Saint Laurent’ (2014).

And finally, a fond, family-viewing memory? I always loved Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory. I mean, I wouldn’t say it’s one of my favorite films but every time I see it, it’s like, “Oh, I get why I was obsessed with that as a kid”. I love the visual world and Gene Wilder is so bizarre and a little creepy. If you look at it as an adult there’s something kind of perverse about it, but I love a kind of analog fantasy world! So that film is, you might say, delicious.

You could say Spaceship Earth is a kind of analog fantasy world—the Biosphere itself is a living fantasy. I’m interested to know what you’d say to younger film lovers of today about what they might get out of seeing these avant-garde theater-makers-turned-Biospherians of yesterday? This film is more targeted towards younger people. I feel like there is a certain cynicism amongst adults that completely discounts young people and their ability to reimagine the world in creative ways. This is something I really dealt with in my film Teenage, the history of the invention of teenagers: adults always try to control young people. They corral the inventiveness of young people and the languages that they speak and invent. Young people all fight back, trying to define the world on their own terms, and this is really a film about a group of people who came together in their 20s and decided to reimagine and redefine, literally, a new world. There are all sorts of forces of establishment that tried to stop them and question and discount them.

We live in a world that’s pretty cynical and brings a lot of skepticism to people who try to do things differently, and I think as a 20-year-old you might see yourself in the idealism of these unusual people. Don’t you think that’s true? That, like, 20-year-olds aren’t as snarky and cynical? I feel like 20-year-olds are earnest and sincere and idealistic. Maybe I’m out of touch, but that was my experience and part of what I’ve observed in other young people.

I just feel like that ‘snarkiness’ that is often represented in the media is the cynicism that comes with the bitterness of life experience. And when you’re young and don’t have hardships and disappointments that have maybe hardened you with a certain kind of cynicism, it is possible to think more expansively and more optimistically about the world. We really need to tap into that energy. It’s not really helpful at this moment to, I don’t know, to shoot down anyone who’s trying something new. I hadn’t thought about that, but I'd be really curious what young people think of the film.

That’s a useful perspective, and makes me think of how, over the last couple of years, we have seen so much grassroots activism from young people, and now with the global lockdown there’s been a quieting of the youth climate movement, at least out there on the streets. You’re totally right. It was this big loud wave of activity and now with the pandemic it has really been washed over. But what they're talking about is long-term consequences, and if we don’t address the underlying issues that have related to the collapse of our society as a result of uncontrollable environmental factors, the survival of our species is threatened.

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