I was answering an ask that got a bit out of hand from its original purpose, so I guess I really needed to share (more of) my thoughts on Tyrosh and how it relates to Westeros. also, I love studying medieval history. shocker that I'm currently fixating on asoiaf haha
some important things of what we do know of Tyrosh in canon (taken from here) is that
it is a very wealthy city-state
it is entrenched in the slave trade and Tyroshi slavers have gone beyond the wall to enslave free folk/wildlings
slaves far outnumber freeborn in Tyrosh (and much of the free cities outside of Braavos, which has banned it)
the Archon of Tyrosh isn't hereditary, but they get chosen from the same group of noble and/or wealthy men
I've had multiple ideas of which real life cultures/cities Tyrosh is informed by in my brain, and I think I've landed on medieval Venice or Genoa (a maritime/mercantile city state that relies on the slave trade for continued economic prosperity that enslaves people of many different ethnic and religious backgrounds), as well as some al-Andalus (specifically as it relates to the Prague slave trade). The targeting of pagans by medieval states parallels what exists in ASOIAF canon of free folk being targeted. There's also the whole thing of the old gods being viewed as an illegitimate religion. While it is based on these culturally in my mind, Tyrosh is also kind of Poland because the Blackfyre rebellions are based on the Jacobite rebellions, and James Stuart (Daemon Blackfyre) married Maria Clementina Sobieska (Rohanne of Tyrosh) for her dowry and to support his cause as pretender to the British (Westerosi) throne. IWith all that in mind, Tyrosh doesn't have an exact parallel but it is greatly inspired by the historical record.
I think it is very important to recognize that Tyrosh is a slave state. There is a lot of irony many of the "Free" Cities heavily rely on slavery as an economic and social system. While Tyroshi wealth apparently has its origins in sea snails (why not), their existence as a mercantile society relies in large part on the slave trade. This isn't dissimilar to fellow slave state Lys, which has a relationship with the Targaryens, especially considering the amount of Valyrian descent amongst Lysene nobility. Lys parallels medieval Florence in the real world (which was also known for poisons of course). It's very.... interesting then that being sent to Lys was considered a punishment for Aerion (who might have been his generation's Valyrian supremacist if he didn't also think he was a dragon). Also, here's a quote from The World of Ice and Fire that makes the decision to send Aerion to Lys perhaps less of a punishment...
Even the Targaryen kings and princes of old sometimes turned to Lys in search of wives and paramours, for their blood as for their beauty.
I don't think there's the same thing in Tyrosh of going with the purpose of finding a 'proper' wife, but this provides the context that Targaryens have historically been willing to marry Free City nobility. However, the Blackfyre Tyroshi marriage (of Rohanne of Tyrosh and Daemon Blackfyre) is politically and economically motivated rather than by blood or beauty like it might have been for a Lysene noblewoman. Also don't pay too much attention to ages of the involved characters because it WILL give you a headache.
Despite the fact that slavery has long been outlawed in Westeros, the impact of the slave trade still impacts it. That the Blackfyre rebellion(s)/faction chooses to align themselves with Tyrosh is especially interesting. It shows that they care more about gaining financial backing than they do about upholding the moral code set forth by the Faith of the Seven/the people of Westeros that they intend to rule. Tyrosh has its own form of religion, more closely aligned to the Roman inspired religion practiced in Valyria (and the ancestors of the Targaryens). They are essentially the Catholic Jacobites to the CoE Englishmen (which gives so much context to the Targs being viewed as closer to God/the Seven). However, it isn't as if the people of Westeros aren't also benefiting from slavery, as the fancy armor of the nobility is Tyroshi in origin:
Tyroshi with a forked blue beard was selling ornate helms, gorgeous fantastical things wrought in the shapes of birds and beasts and chased with gold and silver. (The Hedge Knight)
Ok that is all! I need to write an essay of sorts about the Tyroshi armor and the slave labor implications another time. feel free to let me know your thoughts
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
â Live Streamingâ Interactive Chatâ Private Showsâ HD Qualityâ Free Actions
Free to watch ⢠No registration required ⢠HD streaming
I speculate that Rohanne is wealthy, but I don't have much evidence. My only basis is Daemon II; I don't believe his lavish attire was a gift from the Black Dragon faction nobles of Westeros (these nobles likely didn't consider such clothing necessary). Furthermore, his lifestyle suggests he grew up in a wealthy environment. What's your take on this?
Itâs universally accepted in fandom that Rohanne was related to the Archon Aegon IV negotiated with (although TWOIAF doesnât say how), and apparently âLys and Myr are ruled by conclaves of magisters, chosen from amongst the wealthiest and noblest men of the city; Tyrosh is governed by an archon, selected from amongst the members of a similar conclaveâ (TWOIAF), which seems to indicate at least her birth family was wealthy.
Not only does Daemon II have a several fancy clothes and jewels and an expensive-looking black warhorse, but Dunk says he âsmelled of oranges and limes, with a hint of some strange eastern spice beneath. Nutmeg, perhapsâ (TMK) Oranges and limes are associated with Dorne and southwestern Essos (Myr, Volantis, Lys, and Danyâs lemon tree was originally in Tyrosh before GRRM retconned it to Braavos), whereas âeastern spicesâ are associated with nobles (who can afford them) and southern Essosi traders and further east (like Slaverâs Bay). We also know that merchants in both Essos and Westeros can become very wealthy traveling the âtraderâs circleâ around the Jade Sea, particularly in spices. I wouldnât be surprised if Rohanneâs family did trade in spices, in addition to silks. Westerosi nobles tend to look down on those who get their fortune through commerce/trade (Frey, Butterwell, Spicer, Baelish) but Essosi men who make a fortune in trade are called âmerchant princesâ. It makes sense to imagine Rohanne was a wealthy person due to engaging in lucrative trades like spice.
Reading your analysis of BR made me realize that his mother must have been "friends" with the same people who supported and collaborated in the attempted invasion of Dorne in 174. I don't blame her; if it were her, she would also seek to survive at all costs. But it gives you another perspective on her role at court,
And that marrying Daemon to Rohanne was stupid on so many levels (literally, they were going to marry because of an anti-Dorne alliance that could have led to a revolt anti-Darren, He didn't even do anything to redefine that alliance; I wouldn't be surprised if the Tyrosh supported the rebellion if they saw one of their own being belittled) that I only believe it if Darren was forced by the context or was just stupid.
What do you think Tyroshi's and especially Rohanne's stance might be regarding the Rebellion?
It would make sense that Melissaâs relatives were in powerful court positions at the time, and did help Aegon IV plan the invasions of Dorne by land and sea. It makes more sense than the MUSH where Lord Bracken is still Hand after Barbaâs banishment, or how Blackwoods can never be blamed for anything negative (even though theyâve brutalized small folk for living on the âwrongâ lands) despite it being the logical explanation. One interpretation of why Melissa is apparently friends with Naerys, Aemon, and Darren II but not Myriah (if you donât believe the theory D2 is BRâs real father; also W for her for being resistant to Suewood powers) is because she was connected to the Dornish invasion architects at court. She seems to be a young teen when she was Aegonâs mistress, and subject to powerful people, so I donât think she was evil; but the way people in fandom talk about Daena and the Bracken sisters for the actions of men, youâd think she would get more criticism rather than just being poorly written.
I agree letting the Dae/Ro marriage go through was stupid on multiple levels. The best place for Daemon Blackfyre was the Kingsguard, and thereâs no reason why this wasnât even suggested. Tyroshi women connected to the archon are potential brides for princes and kings, not some landed knight who so happens to be a not very well liked illegitimate cousin of the king (and apparently in love with a princess?) The truth is that GRRM hadnât thought of who Daemonâs wife was until late in TWOIAF, and just said sheâs a Tyroshi noble to explain why the Blackfyre family are based in Tyrosh, despite it making Daeron and Aegonâs actions cruel and nonsensical (clearly if the marriage were to take place Daemon wouldâve had to be legitimized, and the decree wasnât just to spite Darren II. And the measly right to land along the Blackwater with no actual keep is completely unworthy of a Tyroshi noblewoman).
The Tyroshi were Blackfyre supporters during the First Rebellionâeither covertly through trade wars/money or more openly, depending on the familyâas evidenced when D2 arranged the marriage of his heirâs heir to another Tyroshi noblewoman because he feared Rohanneâs familyâs influence. The archon of Tyrosh in Jaehaerysâ day called Kingâs Landing âa reeking sore not fit to be called a cityâ, so you can imagine their reaction when one of their own is married to a very minor knight with no keep to his name. Rohanne wouldâve been aware of the suspicion with which she was treated, and why her husband was viewed as a rebel-in-waiting and consequently given little power and no influence, but I think that the lack of opportunity for her childrenâhow they donât seem to have been fostered, betrothed, or squires/cupbearers to anyone importantâthat suspicion caused wouldâve outright enraged her. I think the fact the Blackfyre cause is still alive in Tyrosh and that Aegor Rivers is allowed there in 212 indicates that Rohanne supported the rebels, and wouldâve felt vindicated had they sat the throne. I also think thatâsimilar to Mary of Modenaâs family being instrumental in helping James II and his family escape to Franceâthat certain members of Rohanneâs family did visit Kingâs Landing and Daemonâs keep in order to see the situation for themselves (without having to resort to coded letters), and were angry about the dismissive/suspicious way she was treated, and likely provided the ships Rohanne took back to Tyrosh.
"Kiera of Tyrosh was the wife of Prince Valarr Targaryen. An unknown amount of time after Valarr's death, she was married to Valarr's cousin, Prince Daeron Targaryen."
â The World of Ice & Fire, Appendix: Targaryen Lineage.
"During her marriage to Prince Valarr Targaryen, Kiera gave birth to sons, though unfortunately they were stillborn. Prince Valarr died during the Great Spring Sickness, making Kiera a widow. An unknown amount of time later, Kiera was married to Valarr's cousin, Prince Daeron Targaryen. Together with Prince Daeron, Kiera had a daughter, Princess Vaella, born in 222 AC. Vaella proved to be sweet, but sadly simple-minded."
â The World of Ice & Fire, The Targaryen Kings: Maekar I & A Clash of Kings, Chapter 6, Jon I
Official cast: Tamara Chanel White in AKOTSK
if someone has better picture of Kiera pls send, the only ones i could find are so pixelated :'(
I'm not expert in the linguistics of asoiaf but isn't Kiera a valyrian name? does this mean tyroshi people are also valyrians like lyse?
GRRM isnât even an expert in the linguistics of ASOIAF, hence Ysilla (a Greenblood Orphan) sharing the same name as a granddaughter of Bronze Yohn Royce, or Rohanne of Tyrosh having the same name as the Webber Lady of Coldmoat.
Kiera is in all likelihood a Lyseni Valyrian name owing to its similarity to Shiera, âstar of the seaâ. While this may indicate Kiera is culturally Valyrian (as all the Free Cities are at least partially culturally Valyrian, due to being founded by Valyrians), it doesnât necessarily mean she is ethnically Valyrian. Taena Merryweather is Myrish but clearly has a Valyrian name (similar to Daena, Laena, Rhaena, etc), yet she has none of the stereotypical Valyrian features: âThe Myrish woman was too beautiful by half; long-legged and full-breasted, with smooth olive skin, ripe lips, huge dark eyes, and thick black hair that always looked as if she'd just come from bed. She even smells of sin, like some exotic lotus.â (AFFC Cersei II; the sultry, sexualized, flirtatious Mediterranean woman stereotype is not appreciated, GRRM. And no, itâs not just Cersei who sexualizes Taena like this). GRRM said in a 2012 interview that Lys is unique among the Free Cities âbecause it was only and entirely a Valyrian colonyâ, which is why its people have a âstandard appearanceâ as opposed to the Braavosi. Itâs possible that Kiera is ethnically Valyrian, but itâs also likely that she has a Valyrian name like Taena because thatâs a âdominant cultureâ of the city (though by no means the only). The Tyroshi citizens killed their dragonlords after the Fall of Valyria (as did the Lyseni), and were never conquered by the Volantene tigers (as their neighbors of Lys and Myr were) so they probably donât have the same reverence for Valyrian culture or as many ethnic Valyrians as Lys, Myr, or Volantis. Rohanneâs name isnât even culturally Valyrian, and the names of the male Tyroshi (Daario, Moreo, Ollo, Pello, Collio, Racallio, Roro) donât seem Old Valyrian inspired either, more similar to other Free Cities names like the Braavosiâs.
Despite a Valyrian-sounding name, all this indicates is that Kiera grew up in a Valyrian-influenced culture (which we already knew), but the Free Cities have âpeople of all kinds, all ethnicities and colorsâ. Itâs unlikely that all Tyroshi have the same ethnicity, so we canât extrapolate Kieraâs supposed ethnicity onto all Tyroshi.
Anya is live and ready to show you everything. Watch her strip, dance, and perform exclusive shows just for you. Interact in real-time and make your fantasies come true.
â Live Streamingâ Interactive Chatâ Private Showsâ HD Qualityâ Free Actions
Free to watch ⢠No registration required ⢠HD streaming
If you're thinking of developing an OC from Tyrosh⌠my ideas, well, it's a daughter of Valyria, possibly the most Valyrian city after Lys and Volantys considering it was founded by Valyria from scratch and dyes were popularized by them, and Tyrosh has an archon like Valyria, so I suppose the fashion and culture will be partly inspired by them. The historical inspiration is Carthage/Tyre, so you could take some from there.
We don't know much about phenicia clothing, other than that women covered their entire bodies, but it seems that the women wore a lot of jewelry on top and kohl. Just some interesting facts to give you ideas. I like how you invest so much time thinking about your OCs' fashion.
Ahhh I see! Thank you for the insight on the cultural inspiration for Tyrosh, anon! It might be a bit challenging finding solid resources on Phoenician fashion but I'll try my best! And thanks, I find a character's fashion sense to be the most significant part of their identity (aside from physical features) as clothes indicate so much about a person; where their from, what their culture emphasizes an importance on, what they themselves believe in, what status they come from, their interests, etc. I rrly love characters that you can just infer aspects of their identity through their clothes alone, it always makes for solid character and world building.
