OK OK ive been thinking a lot about what you said about the fandoms portrayal of the relationship between kaeya and venti and how its very odd considering kaeya being khaenrian and venti being an archon. i think it’d be very interesting to write smth about the two and them kind of running circles around each other because they both think the other is going to do something.
on the same page, since you like khaenriah alot i wonder how you view the archons role in the cataclysm ? im personally inclined to believe they were .. controlled in a way ? not in the “oh theyre so innocent 🥺🥺🥺” because i dont think they were like. MIND CONTROLLED fully but i do think it was partially against their wills ? something to do with the gnosises and their true uses ? im sort of undecided on it still because i havent fully thought it out..
HEHEHE SPINS AROUND Also quick disclaimer I have not played Nahida's story quest yet (I. don't like her very much and haven't worked up the energy to play another like hour-long quest with her) so this is all based on information learned from the game up to the final Sumeru Archon Quest!!!
I think the Archons, initially, were summoned to quell the threat of the Abyss, and the Abyss alone. I think that despite Celestia's track record for suppressing nations that reach something comparable to their level of power (Vindagnyer), that Khaenri'ah legitimately wasn't majorly interfering with Teyvat to the point that Celestia would have grounds to step in and demolish it (like, again, they did with Vindagnyer).
(WHICH ISN'T to say that I think that Khaenri'ah was entirely cut off from the rest of Teyvat, I wholeheartedly believe that they had established trade and relations with other nations, especially because Khaenri'ah was founded on a mix of nations, so it would make sense for them to have established relations with those nations to accommodate for the variety of people. I just think that Khaenri'ah had no interest in Teyvat in terms of like, rising to power over it, which is why it persisted for give or take 2500+ years (it's definitely around the same time as Venti's lifespan, but I don't have an exact number yet). Which tracks with it being founded on people literally just trying to live without the Archons)
I think the Cataclysm was triggered by a select few (Gold likely one of them) digging too deep into Forbidden Knowlege, as Nahida said it was of the deepest depths of the Abyss, and if there's anything the Cataclysm is known for it's 1) The Destruction of Khaenri'ah and 2) The Emergence of the Abyss.
This initial surge of the Abyss, as in the Sages of Khaenri'ah/Gold discovering it and tugging at it, could have led to a lot of reactions in Celestia. If Celestia had been looking for a reason to sic the Archons on Khaenri'ah, this was definitely it. If Celestia had just been. Hangin out there and went like "OH SHIT LOL the fucking ABYSS is putting the IRMUNSIL in DANGER right now someone send the Archons" then that's. Different.
In the end, I think the Archons didn't know exactly what they were doing or the full effects of what would happen. They were summoned by Celestia, possibly by the Heavenly Principles themselves, and told to stop an Abyssal threat in Khaenri'ah.
Gold's outburst (which I still believe was originally a defensive move and not a move intended to destroy) caused the Abyss to come FLOODING through, sending the Archons into a panicked or more desperate state, leading to them using tactics and moves that focuses more on total annihilation than just getting the Abyss out, ESPECIALLY as the Curse began to manifest and people started succumbing to it, taking on more "monstrous" forms.
AND ITS ACTUALLY!!!! SO INTERESTING because from the Ruin Golem in the desert we know that the Curse may have (actually with what we know of Dainsleif and such it DEFINITELY) manifested in different ways with different people. And Khaenri'ahns fought AGAINST it. They used the machines of their nation to fend off the Abyss because it was destroying THEIR HOME. THEIR HOME WAS SUCCUMBING TO THIS FORCE BROUGHT UP FROM THE DEPTHS THAT THEY HAD NO SAY IN.
HOWEVER. I think the Archons SHOULD have made more of an effort to care for the survivors. I think Venti could have done better when handling the Durin situation (especially considering that Durin was a CHILD put in the body of a dragon and had minimal if not NO idea what was happening when he was fighting Dvalin). I think Zhongli and Liyue were in an optimal place to save and help people. I think that Ei, in her grief, should have gone to the other Archons with her questions. And I think that King Deshret and the Greater Lord should have made the proper preparations and/or proper documentation of the event.
Were they misinformed in their attack and destruction of Khaenri'ah? Yes.
Was the destruction of Khaenri'ah their INTENTION? No.
Do they understand in this day that what they did, in the end, caused a whole nation to lose itself and hundreds (if not thousands) of people to be stranded with a curse they didn't know about manifesting in them, and that the way that their nations now see Hilichurls may very Harmful? Yes.
I highly doubt that any of them believe what they did was wholly right, but I think some of them may be under the impression that, though, harsh, the ends justified the means. (Zhongli, mainly, I think. Love the guy but he WWAS the Warrior God, and the preservation of Liyue was his number one obligation).
BUT I think that Khaenri'ahns, those who's family lines survived (Kaeya ESPECIALLY, being of the Alberich Clan), do hold a (pretty rightful) hatred towards the Archons, because at the end of they day they don't know the full story (neither do the Archons, but they probably know a little more). From a normal Khaenri'ahn POV, the Archons descend on your nation, then the Abyss surges forward, and now everything is irreversibly fucked up and you've lost pretty much everything.
(Also I do wholey believe that Kaeya would like. Humor Venti as in he would be his usual cheery jokester self but at the end of the day, he doesn't like him. He's not a fan. Actually I could probably write a whole other post about Kaeya and how Mondstadtian religion probably had a hugely negative effect on him but that's like. Legitimately a whole other thing DKJFHSDJF)
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Archon war and Khaenri'ah, do you have any thoughts?
I don't think Khaenri'ahn was meant to exist, at least according to the heavenly principals. And it just kinda... Happened without the god's knowledge. Because Idk, the whole seven archons for seven regions and stuff. Plus like, all the godless civilizations seem to be "outside" of the design of the heavens. Like they do happen and Celestia can't seem to prevent them, only punish them if the toe out of line.
Also, do you know the theory about Irmin, Odin and how Khaenri'ah may have had a god? If so, what are your thoughts on it? Do you think so? Why or why not?
By the ideals of the Heavenly Principals, yeah, Khaenri'ah wasn't meant to exist, but I don't think Celestia. Cared that much as long as Khaenri'ah stayed underground and out of the way most of the time? And I think that the main catalyst for the Cataclysm was Gold and the Sages of Khaenri'ah breaking through into the Abyss and likely/possibly "Forbidden Knowlege" and all it's. Weird disease behaviors.
(I mean hey, Enkanomiya/Watatsumi and Serai/Tsurumi islands alone in Inazuma are, while not godless nations, are starkly DIVERGENT nations, and were only cut down (to my knowledge) when they "overstepped boundaries" whatever that means (I'm rusty on Inazuma lore :p I do remember that Orobaxi died post-Archon War in the initial Civil War between the Shogunate and Watatsumi, give or take?? 1000 years pre-game, and I don't remember when the Thunderbird died).
And Watatsumi's still going strong!!! And as I see it, it counts as a godless nation, as in it's god, Orobaxi, the coral serpent of the depths, is dead. They have no god. They believe in him, and maybe he's even still around in some way (see: the final segment of Washizou's Prayers when the Outsider Shrine whispers a warning at the player), but they don't have a god who is fully Present and defending them.
Also I'm not a fan of the "Khaenri'ah had a god" theory I feel it takes away from the nation's origins in. Yk. Being a nation separate from the gods with the express purpose of being separate from the gods, founded on the idea of being separate from the gods. It just. Rubs me the wrong way. At the very least it would have the Scribe of Vindagnyer ROLLING in his grave, practically turned into a partial accelerator.
The outlander, Imunlaukr, what do we know about him? Is he confirmed to die during the Fall of Sal Vindagnyr? Could he have ended up in Khaenri'ah at some point? I'm tinkering with the Irmin is a god theory and I think I'm about to make sense of the god symbolism withput making him a god and destroying Khaenri'ah's whole thing.
(Talking to you sometimes feels like I'm researching some very important topic and contacting an expert lmao. Thanks for your patience...)
HEHEHE IMUNLAUKER MY BESTEST FRIEND IMUNLAUKER,
he didn’t die during the fall or freeze of Vindagnyer!! (A lot of Vindagnyerens didn’t, they just were to fearful to leave the mountain because. Yo it was their HOME and they wanted to fix it). Imunlauker did leave the mountain though, specifically in search of some way to unfreeze the mountain. He failed. By the time he came back everyone was dead. (He’s who Snowtombed Starsilver belonged to, btw. He gave it up when he came back because he was so riddled with the agonies that he couldn’t bear to wield it anymore).
I don’t think he ended up in Khaenri’ah, because in the Sacrificial set lore it says that his clan persisted on in early Mondstadt alongside Gunhilder and Lawrence clans (The Ragnvinders aren’t mentioned because. Well the Ragnvinder family name was coined during Vennessa’s rebellion. Which supports my theory that they’re descended from thr Imunlaukers and that’s part of why Kaeya was left in their care but. THATS. Another rabbithole I would love to get into but won’t here)
I DO think it’s possible he travelled to Khaenri’ah at some point to visit the Scribe, but I doubt it
(Also I’m so honored that you think of me as an expert I promise I’m just some guy with a special interest)
Hi, have you seen the leaks for what is apparently a archway from Khaneri'ah and what are your thoughts about it?
(this one:)
I ask since you're the architectural expert lmao.
WHAT I HAVE NOT PLEASE PLEASE PLEASEPLADNLEJAHFKJDAGFD SEND THE LINK IN A REBLONG OR COMMENT SO I CAN ANALYZE FIRTHER BUT FOR NOW
The red accents alongside the gold remind me a lot of the architecture left behind from King Deshret's civilization
(examples for anyone who needs a v ref:
While the layered stone forming an outward slant almost reminds me of Enkanomiya,,, but that might just be my imagination considering the images I can find on short notice (by which I mean without going into the game itself to gather references) doesn't seem to back that up
The star appearing over the doorway is no big surprise, considering the four pointed star alone is a hugely prominent symbol in Khaenri'ah, and the eight pointed star is what appears on ruin guards and appears on Halfdain's chest assumedly as part of his uniform,,, and other than that I can't get into the nitty gritty of details without seeing a fully textured and rendered piece because of the specific minor design motifs that appear via carvings in the stone (plus I can't see the brick pattern very well just yet)
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Hi! Have been exploring Enjanomya recently, fun as fuck, by the way!
Question: how are there Hilichurls and Abyss creatures there if this is before the Cataclysm? Is it ever explained?
It’s not explained! However my theory is that Enkanomiya and mainland Khaenri’ah are connected in some way via cave system so Hilichurls made their way there over the years
Did Sal Vindagnyr have a god? Did Enkonomia have a god? Like, didthey worship a specific god or something?
I kinda tried to look it up but I don't trust the wiki too much. Not because it's innacurate but because they don't go into too much detail.
Just wondering, since you're the expert. Love your shit btw.
OH UR ALWAYS WELCOME TO BOTHER ME ABOUT STUFF LIKE THIS I LOVE TALKING ABOUT IT!!!! <- rarely ever gets to talk about it ever
So Sal Vindagnyer did NOT have a god. They were purely human made and raised!! They did however worship the Irminsul, and have a theocracy based around the Irminsul. For eaxample, the young Preistess of Vindagnyer (the one who painted the murals in the mural room) was born beneath the tree, which gave her the ability to see into the future.
Actually, the Vindagnyeren understanding of the Irminsul was so good, so solid, that they gained godlike power. They ascended to Celestia all by themselves, they gave themselves the power of gods through the ley lines.
OBVIOUSLY that fucked up Celestia so they dropped the Nail on them, which lead to the Scribe leaving to a then new Khaenri’ah explicitly because he was tired of living under threat of gods and he was tired of being (who he thought was) the only Vindagnyeren left, so he went and literally helped to found Khaenri’ah
(which is also why I’m so against Khaenri’ah having any semblance of a Divine protector, I think if there’s any sort of Divine being down there they should live like a normal person, no extra merit, no extra honor, because the very founding premise of Khaenri’ah was that they didn’t want the Divine to kill them again)
(Oh also I’m pretty sure Imunlauker, founder of the Imunlauker clan and original owner of the sword you find in the mural room (the name’s escaping me) was one of the Descenders. His origins are only referred to with “Outlander”, and he too went on a journey across Teyvat (but to try and save Vindagnyer from its eternal frost). Plus he can’t be the abyss twin because Vindagnyer fell approx 2,700-2,400 years ago. And the Imunlauker clan was one of the original founding clans of Mondstadt. Which actually leads me to a whole other theory about Ragnvinder history but that is not what this post is about)
TURTLETHEORIES FOR GENSHIN THAT HYV OWES ME MONEY FOR (and that I will add on to as I re-remember my own theories)
Theories from pre-Inazuma:
Khaenri’ah sharing architectural similarities to the ruins of Vindagnyer and other dead godless nations because it was founded by survivors of the Archon’s various genocides (based on Dragonspine Lore originally, further evidence gained with the release of Enkanomiya and the Chasm)
Kaeya being of a family of high standing, but not of the Eclipse Dynasty (proven in Hidden Strife)
Dottore setting Sumeru ablaze (originally an adaptive daydreaming scenario I just wanted to be true, served on a silver platter with the Harbinger trailer)
Diluc being well aware of Ley Line properties (Hidden Strife, again)
Adalinde being entirely aware of the more shady businesses of Diluc and passing messages on for him (Hidden Strife)
Post-Inazuma:
Orobaxi being a god that served the people specifically, catered to their well-being, did what they bade him do and cared for them as his own (theory formed pre-enkanomiya)
Ei destroying the other gods of her nation in an attempt to fortify her ideal of eternity (pre-Enkanomiya and Tsurumi, post-Serai/Watatsumi)
