But I’ve never said that transwomen are not shamed? I’ve said that their male socialisation means that they have not been specifically shamed for their sexual attraction towards women in the same way that lesbians are - which is true. They do not suffer misogyny or lesphobia, but homophobia (misdirected or otherwise, because of men feeling sexually threatened by anyone that they perceive to be gay) and policing from others invested in upholding patriarchal notions of gendered behaviour. Transwomen are marginalised and can suffer from discrimination and the threat of violence, but critically, they don’t suffer because they are women, but because they are gender non-confirming males
Okay so I just wanted to point out why this kind of thought process is just silly and immaterial. Lemme break this down for a moment.
not been specifically shamed for their sexual attraction towards women in the same way that lesbians are
This is not true at all for me, both when I was dating a cis woman and in my current relationship with another trans woman. Like my relationships with women are devalued at every step by my family and society. Rarely (I’m sure it’s happened once) does my family ever call one of my girlfriends my girlfriend. Like I’ve been dating my current gf for two years now and a couple of weeks ago my mom was like “Tara’s friend [gf’s name] is here for the week” to my grandma. She introduces her as my friend to family and her friends. Just like so much gets thrown our way:
why can’t you be bi (read: why can’t you be into & date men)
your relationship is the same as just playing house
look like sisters (heard literally like 1000x)
you don’t fight so clearly your relationship isn’t real
insert more lesbophobia here
Like that’s just from family trying to devalue and shame our attractions to women lol, and like society isn’t much better.Â
do not suffer misogyny or lesphobia, but homophobia (misdirected or otherwise, because of men feeling sexually threatened
Which like also I can’t even begin to laugh at how absurd it is that this person claiming to be radical is hand washing the complicity of cis women in trans women’s oppression. 50+% of the population isn’t involved in your oppression at all? Like that’s just not how shit works but k.
Like for comparison the vast majority of overt (open disgust or fear) lesbophobia that I have experienced has been at the hands of straight cis women. I can’t even begin to describe how lesbophobic my own mother is and that I get shit a lot from her. Full disclosure I do my best to avoid men so I have more interactions with cishet women than I do men. Still I’ve gotten my fair share of annoying men though, like I tell guys I’m a lesbian and they wanna watch or give me their dick. It’s gross, creepy, and fucking scary. The bottom line though is that het women are just as complicit in lesbophobia as het men. Like oppression isn’t performed by only one gender.
but critically, they don’t suffer because they are women, but because they are gender non-confirming males
Like okay I look like a woman, people treat me like I’m a woman, and I get targeted for violence like a woman. Because the same is true of my girlfriend we both get perceived as lesbians, treated like lesbians, and are targeted for violence like lesbians. To say that we face misogyny and lesbophobia for being “gnc males” is like? Or even to say that we simply don’t experience that violence? The primary way in which I experience the world is based on what people see, and that is a hairy legged cis woman who is kinda shit at “making an effort” (I’m disabled) to be feminine in presentation.
For starters, “misdirected” in this context is absolutely stolen from trans woman theorists who were penning theory about the formation of trans male toxic masculinity and how one’s identity as male forms a small buffer to misogynist violence / how the process of internalization differs for those who don’t identify with the given oppression. Used simply to mean “mistakenly applied” in this context is clear misuse as a result appropriation and also an oversimplification.
Anyway like the concept makes no sense here because if someone is not only targeted for a specific form of violence, and identifies as a member of the marginalized group they’re clearly not getting a misdirected experience. So like not only are my gf and I directly targeted for lesbophobia by others, but we internalize that violence as being about us. When we see lesbophobic things in our culture’s media we understand it as about us. Materially speaking we are victims are of lesbophobic violence by nature of our appearance, and legally are subject to the same laws as all other lesbians because we are both legally female as well. Like we can actually get married now and that’s phenomenal, something we couldn’t necessarily do a few years ago, and in the future we’d like a daughter. I can’t wait to not have to deal with the fear, anxiety, and possible discrimination of the adoption process since you know in many states there are no laws forbidding discrimination against lesbian couples in adoption. Like our fitness to raise a child is going to be judged on our lesbianism and I’m pretty sure one of us claiming to be male (obviously both claiming won’t help lol) is not gonna make it any better. It’d probably be more detrimental. The fact is we are bound to the legal class female, and so far as I can tell the social class as well.
Though this isn’t tangible, as I said we both identify as lesbians as well, meaning we understand lesbophobia to be about ourselves as lesbians and our relationship as well. Which even if you somehow don’t believe in identity (the psychology and/or sociology version) like we still need to be aware of lesbophobia, meaning both what it looks like and the violence that can result from it, for our own survival. Which like I think it becomes pretty hard to separate whether or not you face something at the point where you are targeted for it, are perceived as the oppressed group, understand yourself as a member of the oppressed group, and must be cognizant of how said oppression functions for your own survival.
You are 100% an assholish uncritical non radical person if you are straight up ignoring this material reality and violence for the sake of your female purity.Â
