#small forwards

Small Forwards ESPN Top-10: LeBron James, Larry Bird, Julius Erving, Kevin Durant, Elgin Baylor, Scottie Pippen, John Havlicek, Rick Barry, James Worthy, Dominique Wilkins RealGM Player Comparison Forum Top-10 (2014): LeBron James, Larry Bird, Julius Erving, Scottie Pippen, Rick Barry, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Kevin Durant, Paul Pierce, Adrian Dantley

TYTSports Top-10 Greatest Small Forwards of All Time (Andre’ Snellings and Jason Rubin).

There is a lot of similarity between these two lists, with the biggest initial difference being the placement of Kevin Durant. This is very similar to the question I addressed last week of where to put Stephen Curry among the point guards. Durant’s been in the NBA a little longer than Curry, but he’s still a young player with a much shorter resume than the legends that he’s up against. If he retired today, would Durant really be the fourth-best small forward of all-time? I’m not sure about that. Durant is a monster, and by the time he’s done I could see him as high as fourth, but for now I’d still take several of the veterans before him.

Other than that, our list had Pierce and Dantley instead of Worthy and 'Nique. I think a good debate could be had on the merits of any of the four over the others, so I don’t see much controversy there. But it is interesting that the RealGM group chose two players whose games weren’t so aesthetically pleasing but had really good analytics, whereas the ESPN group went with glamour players from the Golden '80s who got a lot of TV time. It could be an indication that the RealGM group was doing a bit more research, while the ESPN group was going more off impressions.

Power Forwards ESPN:

Tim Duncan, Karl Malone, Dirk Nowitzki, Charles Barkley,Kevin Garnett, Kevin McHale, Bob Pettit, Elvin Hayes,Pau Gasol, Dennis Rodman

RealGM Forum (2014):

Tim Duncan,Kevin Garnett, Dirk Nowitzki, Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Bob Pettit, Kevin McHale, Dolph Schayes,Pau Gasol, Elvin Hayes

TYTSports Top-10 Greatest Power Forwards of All Time (Andre’ Snellings and Jason Rubin).

This is the position where there is the most divergence at the top. There is a clear separation between the top-5 historical power forwards and all of the rest, but in the ESPN group The Mailman was ranked second whereas in the RealGM group it was The Big Ticket. Again, I think this is one that comes primarily down to the difference in approaches. The RealGM group went hard core into the analytics, really trying to tease out which players were making the largest impact on the court outside of the accolades and hype. With a deep-dive approach that really looks at the whole game, it’s really hard to justify ranking Garnett as low as the ESPN group did. He very arguably had the biggest impact of any power forward, but even if Duncan’s consistent excellence earns him the No. 1 slot then Garnett isn’t far behind. Malone, Nowitzki and Barkley were all historic players as well, but none of them had games as complete or impacts as deep as Duncan and Garnett.

In the second half of the top-10, the RealGM group seemed a bit higher on the super-old school players, with Pettit a couple of slots higher and Schayes earning the nod over Dennis Rodman. Meanwhile, both groups agreed that Pau Gasol, often somewhat unheralded in his own time, is clearly one of the top-10 power forwards that have ever played.

Centers ESPN:

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Shaquille O’Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, Moses Malone, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, George Mikan, Bill Walton

RealGM Forum (2014):

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Russell, Wilt Chamberlain, Shaquille O’Neal, Hakeem Olajuwon, David Robinson, Moses Malone, Patrick Ewing, George Mikan, Artis Gilmore

TYTSports Top-10 Greatest Centers of All Time (Andre’ Snellings and Jason Rubin).

Now, the big boys. More so than any other position, center is the one littered with the most greats. At least half of the names on the top-10 centers list generally find themselves on most all-time top-10 lists from all positions. Both lists have the same five players at the top, with the only difference being the order of Russell and Wilt at two and three. Personally, I have Russell in the top spot among centers and maybe No.1 all-time overall. His in-era impact is unmatched by any player in history, and he was an absurdly athletic beast with a ridiculous basketball IQ, which convinces me that his impact would translate across eras. But nevertheless, the tops of both lists are pretty solid.

The second half of both lists is also similar. The ESPN list has Mr. Fo Fo Fo, Moses Malone, at six while RealGM had him at seven. This small difference again likely arises from analytics, which paint Robinson in a friendlier light than Moses. The RealGM list then has Gilmore rounding out the top-10, while ESPN goes with the Big Redhead, Bill Walton. Walton, at his best, was better than Gilmore. Heck, it can be (strongly) argued that Walton at his best might have been better than Kareem (ask me about that some time). But Walton was only at his best for one semi-healthy season, and he was never able to replicate it. I’m glad that he got the shoutout, but it’s really hard to rank one season, no matter how great, as one of the top-10 center contributions of all-time.