An understanding of the traditional Thai attitudes towards Homosexuality
I see a lot of discussions prompted by Shine the Series and especially towards the conclusion of the series so I thought it might be helpful to share this extract from 'First Queer Voices in Thailand,' by Peter A Jackson.
His book focuses on the attitudes held in the 1970's and 80's but would still apply to the late 1960's when Shine is set.
I hope that sharing this might give some people a better understanding of the choices that characters like Krailert, Naran, Trin and of course Dhevi and Dao all make within the series.
The following passage is talking specifically about men like Krailert, Trin and Naran who were considered "straight passing," and actually in that time they would have been considered heterosexual, especially if they were able to take a wife and fulfil societal norms as Krailert, Naran and Trin all had the potential to do.
At that time, men who were able to penetrate other men were considered to be "proper men," or "full men," as opposed to those who were on the receiving end. (Yes, Top and Bottom discourse has been around forever 😆) and if a man looked feminine or dressed as a woman (was trans) then they were labelled kathoey and were often ridiculed and abused. And men who slept with kathoey and fulfilled the role of "Top," often weren't considered gay at all. Only those who preferred to be penetrated or who were visibly perceived as not masculine were considered "fully gay."
There are many traditional Thai ways of referring to bisexuality which shows that idea people having both same sex experiences and heterosexual ones was not unusual and in an era where same sex friendships were considered more appropriate than mixing boys and girls, it is not surprising that for many, their first sexual experiences were with friends of the same sex and this was true of both men and women.
From First Thai Queer Stories
In understanding the place of homosexuality in the lives of masculine-identifiied Thai men…it is necessary to appreciate that the Thai heterosexual male is presented with three cultural models of masculine sexuality…he can, and should, have a chief wife (mia luang) to whom he has a long term social and economic commitment.
But if he is wealthy enough, he can have one or more, long-term lovers or “minor wives (mia noi), and he can also seek sexual gratification with a prostitute (sopheni).
In Thailand extramarital relations for heterosexual males have significant social tolerance, although not always approval, and can also include sexual relations with other men.
However, because homosexual relations are by definition extramarital, they are perceived as peripheral to the central focus of the family.
Indeed, to be acceptable within the traditional Thai sex/gender system, homosexual relations between gender normative males should remain secondary to a primary marital or de facto heterosexual (reproductive) relationship.
The operation of these values, in which homosexuality is tolerated so long as it remains marginalized, commonly leads both heterosexuals and homosexuals to perceive male homosexuality as being of a similar character to relations with a minor wife or prostitute. That is, the idea that a man could commit himself to a relationship with another man in the same way he commits himself to a wife is alien to the traditional Thai schema of masculinity.
Homosexual relations between men, if acknowledged, are generally seen as transient.
Nevertheless, so long as homosexuality remains on a level similar to relations with a prostitute or minor wife, and does not threaten the primary, reproductive relation with the chief wife, a Thai homosexual man’s masculine identity can often remain largely intact.
To summarise, traditional Thai male sex/gender roles have proved two main avenues for the expression of male homoeroticism, namely, placing homoerotic relations at the focus of a male’s sexual life, but thereby sacrificing masculinity and becoming a kathoey [here meaning a trans woman or an effeminate “non straight passing” male.]
Or, alternatively, marginalizing erotic relations with males and thus preserving masculinity. [Important to a man's status in Thai society]
On this latter point, there are three main strategies by which non-kathoey homosexual men in Thailand render their homoerotic relations peripheral, preserve their masculinity, and avoid the stigma of being labelled a kathoey. These strategies are:
1.Remaining unmarried but continuing to adhere to masculine behavioural norms. This often represents a purely apparent marginalization of homoeroticism involving obscuring a predominant homoerotic sex life behind a performance of heterosexual masculinity.
2. Keeping a homosexual lover in a position equivalent to the marginalised status of a minor wife and, at least nominally, keeping a wife at the centre of his social life; or
3. Keeping homoerotic contact with men at a level equivalent to heterosexual prostitution i.e., casual and fleeting.
None of the above strategies threatens the centrality of mariage or the family in a homosexual man’s life, and a Thai male who keeps his homoerotic contacts at the level of a minor wife or prostitution (i.e., casual sex) is considered capable of maintaining his responsibilities to his chief wife and children.
Indeed, male homosexuality kept within the bounds of one of the three above strategies is rarely an issue in Thailand.
Kraikert choosing to marry was considered not only acceptable but even preferable in the era the story takes place and Dhevi learning that he likes to sleep with men would not have made her assume they couldn't have a happy marriage with children and status and her clinging to their marital status in spite of everything would not be at all unusual to people living in that time even if it makes our hearts ache that Krailert and Naran couldn't escape off into the sunset together.
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The White Egret Orchid — Its Symbolism, and What It Can Truly Tell Us About Omori
“my thoughts will follow you into your dreams”
this appears in the lost library, where sunny is alone and looking at memories and quotes said by him and his friends. these are quotes that are almost there but not completely… names scratched out, key details missing, things hazy. ive always been sort of intrigued by the flower meaning because it seems to be connected to mari, basil’s grandmother, and sunny. i want to unpack how this is connected to basil’s grandmother and to mari but first, i want to look at how its connected to sunny.
let’s look at the diction. “my thoughts will follow you into your dreams” in relation to sunny and his alter ego counterpart, omori, seems to be able to convey a clear meaning — sunny’s thoughts, as in “my” will follow omori (AND sunny) into his dreams. as these flowers are usually connected with grief in the game, we can easily make connections to sunny’s identity with grief. the death of sunny means the birth of omori, and the death of omori means the birth of sunny. rather, what’s interesting, though, is that omori’s “death” at the end of the game is not typical. omori does not, cannot, die in a usual way. he is invincible in battle, will not succumb, and as we know, omori is a manifestation of sunny’s grief, trauma and depression. as omori will not “die” in a typical way, we can see that sunny’s memory and feelings after this day cannot be squished down or killed, either.
as omori follows sunny on his journey, i realize: no. omori is the journey. omori is the main character we play as in sunny’s dreams, he is not only the concept of the truth but he’s the repression of it. we fight omori at the end of the game, fighting both the truth of mari’s death (how we will accept it, if we do) and fighting the regression of it as well (fighting to keep mari’s wish alive, to live, and to face the truth). you can think of sunny and omori as contradictions but i also think of them as having the same meaning, the same journey, which is probably why they hug at the end even if one “wins out”
sunny is barely alive, omori is an attempt at recreating life. they are the same. when you’re attempting to artifically create a life that you’re not truly experiencing, you are barely alive — you are missing out on your own life, and you are barely succeeding at the thing you do seek to recapture. omori experiences and repackages the memories sunny ALREADY HAD. sunny is the expression of life, sunny had his childhood, sunny experienced reality. but omori begs the question, how far can the line go between imitation and reality before they blend together?
my answer is, if a line is drawn at all, there will never be a blend. no matter how close the two concepts are, sunny will always unconciously (and soon, consciously) know the truth. he will know that this is not real, and then you might wonder, does he just not care then? no. sunny cares. that’s why he fights omori. however, its this conflict that drives them to be at war with each other — can sunny be convinced he doesn’t care, or that it would be better off not knowing the truth ever existed even if somewhere, deep down, he will always know?
omori WANTS us to see sunny’s side. of course, any person would think, it’s better off being present, being there, being in the moment, waking up every day and living even when it sucks so much. but then you play the game and its more fun to be in the dreamworld. we PREFER being trapped in these fictional worlds because they’re comforting. i know ive had this feeling before, hell, i still do. its just a part of life, we yearn for whats easy, we bask in what’s safe. to sunny, delusion is safe. to omori, delusion might as WELL be the truth. but might as well isnt enough, and in the end, that always will win out. we will always discover the truth. we will always fight ourselves. its just human nature, we want to LIVE, not to exist in a world where living is overrated.
in this same way, mari’s wish is clear for sunny. she wants him to face the truth. and that, that is what sticks throughout the whole game. mari’s wish is sunny’s, and mari was everything to sunny. really, sunny always just wanted what was best for mari. mari wanted the best for sunny, even if her ways of going about it ended in her death. in this way, her thoughts really do follow sunny into his dreams. he knows what she would have wanted, and it was always the best for him. mari loves her brother, so much more than anything in the world. and because mari loved him, a part of sunny still loves himself.
mari’s death is a contradiction like many symbols in omori. they can all be interpreted in so many different ways, but one thing stays clear. her death was also a wake up call. her life shows sunny how making friends, finding love, following your dreams and how following your passions is all possible. her thoughts—her love of taking care of everyone else and especially of sunny—follow him into his dreams, as he grows enough strength to confront himself head on and accept his grief as part of him. she, without even knowing it, shows sunny that he can be loved.
and so does aubrey. she almost drowns basil, and she is forgiven. even after all of her anger, she’s mad he didn’t come back. she’s not mad at him because she thinks of him as weak or cowardly, she’s mad because she loved him as her friend and she missed him when he left.
so does kel, as he still shows up for sunny four years later. he shows unconditional support as the best friend sunny could ask for. he shows sunny that the sun is still shining outside, and that time may move forward but real friends will come back.
so does hero, who makes such an effort to bring the gang back together before sunny moves because it’s what mari would have wanted, and it’s what everyone deserves. he takes care of sunny, and helps sunny therefore trust himself to keep going. he is such a good influence on sunny, and he constantly reaffirms how much mari loved him, and how much she still does. that will never change, just like how hero’s brotherly love for sunny will never change.
and BASIL. basil loves sunny to the point of giving him his most prized possession after just getting it back, and basil loves sunny to the point of staying in one place just waiting for him to come back. being honest, basil was not a healthy presence in sunnys life, but how could either of them have predicted that? as children, basil loved sunny to the point of starting a photo album to capture vivid pictures of both him, mari and the rest of their friends. basil grew flowers that reminded him of each one of his friends, and from the looks of it, tried to get them into new passions because he loved them. basil was the one to check in on sunny and mari before their rehearsal, because he loved them, and tragically, basil was the one who loved his friends to the point of being willing to do anything for them.
basil didn’t want sunny to go to jail, or to have his reputation and that of his family’s tarnished forever. he has so much trust in sunny that his mind tricks him into believing that their shared hallucinations killed mari, not him. “you didn’t do that sunny. a good person wouldn’t do something like that. it must’ve been… something behind you.” basil’s love is, and i will say this firmly, unhealthy. you can argue obsessive. but it stemmed from a true and good natured place, from the fostering of a small seed into a blooming sunflower by the end of the game. basil was cherished by his friends, and because of that, he cherishes his own so deeply.
it’s true that basil basically ruined things for sunny, but it’s also true that you can hurt people you love. sunny loved mari, and he pushed her down the stairs and killed her. basil loved sunny, and he staged a suicide for his sister. aubrey loved basil, and she pushed him into a lake and almost drowned him. kel loved aubrey, and he fought her in the middle of her church and humiliated her. hero loved kel, and hero yelled at kel and neglected his brother because of his grief. all of these characters love each other. and all of them have hurt each other.
omori wants to protect sunny. omori loves sunny. in reality, sunny loves himself. but omori’s existence as the denial of sunny’s trauma hurts him.
sunny leans into omori. sunny offers and accepts a hug from him. sunny relied on omori for 4 years. but after seeing what life is like, sunny wants to live.
with basil’s grandmother, it shows how things change. life will always present problems, and there will always be the choice to hide away or to face it head on. even four years later, the white egret orchid symbolizes how these problems are still soberingly real. but to accept living, the truth, and to live fulfilling mari’s wishes, sunny has to accept that alongside all of the great things.
OVERALL:
the white egret orchid is not a symbol to represent any one character, but it is meant to represent the wishes of your loved ones and, as to quote the game, how “my thoughts will follow into your dreams”. as sunny faces the truth and accepts that he killed mari, then one day, his dreams will be blank, black and calm. and really, that’s what mari, basil, and sunny deserve: for their wish for peace to come to fruition, and for reality to be the more important thing than our dreams. thanks for reading this; i know i dont usually make analysis posts but theyre probably my favorite. hope u enjoyed!
Ok, so I’ve just watched episode 8 of Shine and I want to talk about Dhevi because I suspect that after the twist reveal, a lot of people are going to be thinking about her in a more critical light and understandably so but I just want to examine things from the context of the time period the story is set.
First off, I will say that this is not meant as some apologia, I don’t think forcing Krailert to stay with her was a particularly healthy choice and I feel sorry for Krailert and Naran having their happy ending ripped away from them. However I can see why Dhevi would think it was appropriate, when I consider the attitudes to marriage, homosexuality and the rights of women in that time.
Homosexuality has never had the moral or religious stigma associated with it in Thailand that has been prevalent in the West. Now there has been a Christian presence in Thailand for a long time but it is very much a minority religion there. But this doesn’t mean that Thailand was automatically some kind of gay paradise because while it was not looked at as something sinful, it was still not socially acceptable to be openly queer.
There has long been a belief in Thailand that whatever you do in private is your own business and there has been an understanding that same sex liaisons were not uncommon and they were largely tolerated AS LONG AS people still did what was expected of them. This usually meant marriage and children.
Sleeping with people of the same sex in Thailand has often been viewed as “a waste of your current lifetime,” or “a curse placed on you for some misdemeanor in a previous life,” so there is a clear stigma associated with same sex relations, even if it comes from a differing attitude to that of the West.
Society would turn their eyes away from a private situation but they would not tolerate an openly gay person and by person, I really mean a man as they (of course) had more sexual freedom than women.
If a woman was found to be sleeping with another woman then it would be considered a scandal and there would be the worry that if this news was public then it would damage the woman’s reputation and probably her chance of marriage (the horror!)
So it was actually very common for gay men to get married and have children while also probably having gay sex or perhaps even a gay relationship on the side, in secret. In fact, the terms we use today - gay - lesbian - bisexual etc - they didn’t really exist in that era, in Thailand, at least not in the way we understand them today. The Western term "gay," would be adopted later in the 70's along with the terms "tom" (tomboy) and Dee (laDy) to refer to lesbians.
If a man preferred to sleep with men then that would probably be considered “a waste” as I mentioned earlier but it wouldn’t make people think that he couldn’t get married and fulfill his expected duties to his family and greater society.
So, all that to say, that even if young Dhevi was told by her father that Krailert was unsuitable because he liked to sleep with men, that wouldn’t make her automatically think that they couldn’t have a workable marriage together.
To return to men’s unfair sexual freedoms, it was very common for men to have affairs outside of marriage and even whole other wives, there was even a special name for it - “mia noi.” or second wife. These women usually by the 1960’s lived outside of the family home but they were entitled to some of the protections from their “husband” that a first wife would receive, they had a semi legitimate status and their children could potentially inherit property and other assets.
So I will speculate that young Dhevi developed a crush on “sensitive artistic” Krailert, so different from most of the military men that surrounded her. She persuades her father to consider a match but her father does some digging and discovers Krailert is having an affair with a man. Perhaps he tries to change Dhevi’s mind but young and naive and willful, she is having none of it.
Maybe a part of her is even glad of the news that Krailert seems to prefer men because that means she won’t have to worry about other women trying to worm their way into his heart and she’ll likely never have to vie with a second wife for his affections.
Perhaps she was even willing to turn a blind eye to his love affair with Win, assuming that they would never be able to actually be together publicly so Win would not be able to compete with her in the traditional sense. We know she said she disagreed with her father’s decision to get rid of Win.
I think that if Krailert had been able to live with her harmoniously and give her the children that she wanted and society expected then she may well have been willing to ignore any extra marital affairs of her husband as long as they stayed private and far from her eyes.
This probably sounds very strange from a modern perspective but back then many women had to put up with their husbands constantly cheating on them and they were expected to just carry on and keep up appearances.
During this time in Thailand, there wasn’t really any kind of welfare either and it is likely that Dhevi’s father left the bulk of his wealth and assets to her brothers so for many women, especially those of an even lower status than Dhevi, divorce, although possible could easily lead to poverty and the loss of any support that they had cultivated in their married life, not to mention the scandal of it all.
Thailand is a country where great emphasis is placed on “saving face,” if Krailert left Dhevi, it would be a devastating blow to her standing in society and if it was discovered that he left her for a man it would be considered a huge disgrace and a scandal. Let’s not forget that Veera died, pleading for Pracha to “save face for Dhevi and Krailert.” He couldn’t bear the thought of them being so disgraced, that’s how serious it was considered to be.
So now, Dhevi, having saved Krailert from probable death in jail, sees it only as her right that he finally fulfills his duties to her as a husband. She is not going to let him run off with Naran and destroy her social standing and make her and her family a thing of ridicule. He owes her.
When he put her father’s ring on his finger he chose to go along with his wishes, he chose her, (as she views it,) now we can argue that he was pressured into that (i think he was,) but we do see him make the choice. He could have refused to marry her, at this point, Win was dead, he wasn’t doing it to protect Win, he was doing it to stay on the Colonel’s good side, to rise in his favour and receive promotions and higher standing. Things he probably used to help his own family, including Trin, who attended a fancy boarding school in Bangkok that his uncle likely paid for.
I think this is why the story ends that way for him, he made his bed so he has to lie in it. I think Krailert is a very tragic figure and I do have a lot of sympathy for him but I also can see Dhevi’s point of view as well.
She has spent years dealing with him cold-shouldering her despite his choice and it was both his dalliance with Naran and his idea of recording Pracha that ultimately got poor Veera killed. She runs to his rescue and manages to pull it off, getting Pracha thrown into jail in the process and murdered and the first thing Krailert plans to do is flee the country with his lover. I think the woman just snapped and said enough is enough. You don’t like my sweet side well I’m going to show you my steel!
She also brings up her three brothers several times here and you could see it as her threatening Krailert (very possible) but I think that what she means is that if Krailert chooses to run off with Naran then her brothers will seek revenge for the disgrace he would bring on them. She brings up Trin here too and when Krailert says she would never hurt him she agrees but says her brothers would feel differently. It seems to me that she is implying that they were behind Win’s death, something she did not want but she did benefit from so in this scene the threat of her brothers feels similar. She wouldn’t wish harm on Naran or Trin but she still benefits from the potential threat her brothers pose if Krailert doesn’t comply.
*Edit to add more here as i don't think i explained it as clearly as i could, like this isn't long enough- *
I see a lot of people reading it as her using her brothers to threaten him and I can see why but I see her intention as more reminding Krailert of the consequences of his actions. She won't set her brothers on him but they would come for him anyway and Naran and maybe even Trin (to punish Krailert), remember Veera already died to send him a message at military hands.
I also think she feels Krailert is being selfish for not considering the fact that the military will also be after him for shaming them if her brothers don't intervene on his behalf which they certainly won't if he leaves his wife and that could affect not only him but also Naran and Trin.
Remember that she did try to go to the military first and they refused to help and so she went to Moira and exposed the shady actions of the military to save her husband and that probably pissed off her brothers too so she'll have to sweet talk them now to make sure her family doesn’t suffer repercussions from those inevitably angry at them shaming the military. Pracha was a piece of shit but he didn't act alone, he was just made the scapegoat when shit hit the fan.
*Edit over*
She got what she wanted, she got her baby, (I wish it was Veera’s,) I only hope for both of their sakes, they are able to come to some sort of peace between them, otherwise I feel they will both end up very lonely and bitter.
I still don’t know how I feel about it actually but I like how complicated and messy they all are.
Tanwa decides to complete his mother’s unfinished novel which ends up being a way for him to process all of his unresolved grief and trauma over her death but it also functions as a confessional for him to unburden himself from the guilt he feels for how things played out with the tragedy of Victor and the loss of Trin as a result.
In many ways, the novel is a kind of love letter to Trin. The name Indigo Moon is a reference to the first time Tanwa ever saw Trin, in his black suit with that shining moon broach.
Tanwa has always seen Trin as his moon. The first origami gift he gives to Trin is a crescent moon, a nod to their first meeting and when he is in the depths of despair after the events of episode 7, he cries out “where has the moon gone?” He cannot see any hope in the darkness (depression) that has overwhelmed his mind.
However, Tanwa’s mother’s name is also Chanya ชัญญา which means “one who shines,” and the name is a poetic way of saying moonlight so for Tanwa, the moon is a symbol of both his lost loves when he writes the book.
I think the tender care that Trin shows towards him in their interactions both soothes Tanwa’s craving for the kind of affection he lost when his mother died but also unsettles him at times in the early episodes because he has not dealt with that trauma yet.
Tanwa- are you ok? No he is not 😭
We see him having dreams of his mother and waking in tears and he is also triggered by Trin speaking words that remind him of her and as a coping mechanism, he kind of drifts away a little from Trin in that scene afterwards. He loses himself in the “wake” held for The Beatles and dances around with Moira, lost in the moment (and wanting to be lost from the memories of his mother that haunt him) but he is hurting Trin a little in the process because Trin clearly feels awkward and a bit abandoned by Tanwa. They had been so close right before this scene and Tanwa was so affectionate until he suddenly wasn't.
This hot and cold treatment is what Trin complains about when Tanwa follows him to Trin’s family home. Tanwa craves to be around Trin but he also pushes him away when shit starts to get real because he can’t deal with the feelings that get stirred up in him by their intense connection.
It is only fear for Trin and the thought of losing him, that pushes Tanwa to finally confess his feelings in episode six, especially after witnessing Trin so broken from the riot. Perhaps Trin’s explanation of his feelings (clearly ptsd) sound familiar to Tanwa and he is able to overcome his personal anxieties to seize what he really wants -Trin, all day, every day, forever.
Tanwa’s pen name Rimtara (ริมธารา) means “by the edge of the river." Water has great significance for Trin and Tanwa’s relationship. It is by the sea that Tanwa is first vulnerable with Trin, resulting in Trin initiating a kiss and their subsequent romantic frolicking in the waves.
Trin also proposes to Tanwa that they go to Paris together to see the vanilla sky under the Pont Neuf, by the edge of the river Seine.
That was the last moment they had together before their love was shattered. 💔
The cover of Indigo Moon shows a brilliant full moon (Trin) shining over a riverbank (Tanwa.)
Tanwa is still ready to wait by the river for his moon 🥹
As @pandoraspearls notes in her fantastic analysis of Trin, the book itself is an invitation to Trin and while Trin could not know Tanwa was about to show up, it is not surprising that he would head to the bridge while wrestling with his emotions after learning the truth in the novel and presumably waiting for his flight to Thailand.
He knew the second he laid eyes on that book who "Rimtara" was.
He was devastated to learn the truth and the second it was over and he read of Tanwa's hopes, "I hope that someone is still waiting to hear my voice," he tried to get hold of him immediately because he never stopped loving Tanwa. 😭
Tanwa could have found out from the embassy where Trin lived, he could have gone there and found the place empty at first, we don’t know how much time is passing but it is not surprising that he would then look for Trin at the Pont Neuf either, if he didn’t go straight there like the romantic bastard he is. Perhaps he headed over with a mixture of fear and hope in his heart but then he saw Trin standing there and he knew that Trin still cared for him and they had a chance.
I would have loved a longer scene and more Trin and Tanwa on screen but Trin's decision to head to the river's edge was his gesture of both forgiveness and desire for reconciliation.
I'm sure he was thinking of his offer to bring Tanwa there as well and then, like a dream, he turns around and finds Tanwa there. That's why he turns away at first. He can't believe his eyes. He doesn’t dare to hope it's true. He is overcome and certainly feeling guilt over the way they parted too.
But just by them both choosing to go to the Pont Neuf independently, they are revealing that their love for each other still shines bright.
As if this tender scene of Dhevi sewing up Veera's shirt wasn't bad enough I knew she was NEVER letting the housekeeper do that
BOC then had the audacity, THE AUDACITY to show us Dhevi have to take in the news of his death while suppressing the true depths of her own heartache.
She can't even demand an explanation and when she tries to get information, to understand how it happened, Krailert is vague af.
The painful truth is that they are both distraught by Veera's death but still unable to comfort each other, something that should be natural for a husband and wife to do.
Dhevi is afraid to show an excess of emotion because it wouldn't be proper for her to break down over the death of her husband's assistant, no matter how long he has been in their lives. Her offer to help with his funeral is gutwrenching, it's the only thing she can do for him and even that has to be done within the confines of her role as Krailert's wife.
For a moment I thought they might actually have Krailert cry in front of Dhevi and have it be a moment where they could provide some kind of solace for one another even if temporary but alas, he pulled back and suppressed it all as usual.
He clearly doesn’t think he can confide in Dhevi about Pracha, whether that is due to his feelings about her being a woman and/or the daughter of a man who got rid of his past lover, I don't know.
Perhaps he is trying to protect her but if Pracha goes through with his threat to expose Krailert then Dhevi is going to be hurt by that news in the worst possible way.
Either way, a terrible heartbreaking scene that Kob Pimolrat and Son Yuke absolutely nailed.
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