#rouka queue

Oh yes, absolutely.

GRRM used her character for plot reasons, and to make a big terrible point about hypocrisy and classist disregard in a big number of people. But he won't end it there.

“He left you to rule in Sunspear when he took himself off to his Water Gardens, did he not?"

“To rule? No. He left his cousin Ser Manfrey as castellan, old blind Ricasso as seneschal, his bailiffs to collect duties and taxes for his treasurer Alyse Ladybright to count, his shariffs to police the shadow city, his justiciars to sit in judgment, and Maester Myles to deal with any letters not requiring the prince's own attention. Above them all he placed the Red Viper. My charge was feasts and frolics, and the entertainment of distinguished guests. Oberyn would visit the Water Gardens twice a fortnight. Me, he summoned twice a year. I am not the heir my father wants, he has made that plain. Our laws constrain him, but he would sooner have my brother follow him, I know it."

From Tyrion VIII, ASOS:

“He had another cup of wine as he dressed, then took his wife by the arm and escorted her from the Kitchen Keep to join the river of silk, satin, and velvet flowing toward the throne room. Some guests had gone inside to find their places on the benches. Others were milling in front of the doors, enjoying the unseasonable warmth of the afternoon. Tyrion led Sansa around the yard, to perform the necessary courtesies.

She is good at this, he thought, as he watched her tell Lord Gyles that his cough was sounding better, compliment Elinor Tyrell on her gown, and question Jalabhar Xho about wedding customs in the Summer Isles. His cousin Ser Lancel had been brought down by Ser Kevan, the first time he'd left his sickbed since the battle. He looks ghastly. Lancel's hair had turned white and brittle, and he was thin as a stick. Without his father beside him holding him up, he would surely have collapsed. Yet when Sansa praised his valor and said how good it was to see him getting strong again, both Lancel and Ser Kevan beamed. She would have made Joffrey a good queen and a better wife if he'd had the sense to love her. He wondered if his nephew was capable of loving anyone.”

And (one more, sorry) from Alayne I, TWOW:

The feast proved to be everything her father promised.

Sixty-four dishes were served, in honor of the sixty-four competitors who had come so far to contest for silver wings before their lord. From the rivers and the lakes came pike and trout and salmon, from the seas crabs and cod and herring. Ducks there were, and capons, peacocks in their plumage and swans in almond milk. Suckling pigs were served up crackling with apples in their mouths, and three huge aurochs were roasted whole above firepits in the castle yard, since they were too big to get through the kitchen doors. Loaves of hot bread filled the trestle tables in Lord Nestor's hall, and massive wheels of cheese were brought up from the vaults. The butter was fresh-churned, and there were leeks and carrots, roasted onions, beets, turnips, parsnips. And best of all, Lord Nestor's cooks prepared a splendid subtlety, a lemon cake in the shape of the Giant's Lance, twelve feet tall and adorned with an Eyrie made of sugar.

For me, Alayne thought, as they wheeled it out. Sweetrobin loved lemon cakes too, but only after she told him that they were her favorites. The cake had required every lemon in the Vale, but Petyr had promised that he would send to Dorne for more.

My question is: Is this not the way to rule effectively? Or does this in any way diminish Sansa’s role by implying that she’s only good at appearing like a queen, but not actually good at being one?

And regarding the third extract from The Winds of Winter, I want to ask: was it wise to host a feast when winter is coming, food is quickly becoming scarce, and (though I’m unsure if I’m recalling this correctly) Sansa knew people were starving?

No. This comparison does not imply that Sansa would make a bad queen.

I didn't know that!

But the Dany = Mary imagery is thick in the books, alongside other biblical or Christian imagery (wandering the deserts, freeing the slaves, three wise visitors from afar, brimstone, fleeing to exile, significant horsemen, etc etc etc), so independent of age, I think that the idea of Dany birthing the prophecied savior is very much meant to invoke that comparison.

And then he turns out to be stillborn and has dragon features, blind and decayed. This is not an adult savior who self-sacrificed, lying in Mary's arms. This is simply a fetus with Targaryen deformities. He was never goling to live. Baby Jesus he is not. Nor any kind of anti-Jesus. Just loss.

So Dany sacrifices life for life (not at the cross, but you know, the Great Shepherd's priestess suffered terribly nonetheless) and brings forth three dragons instead.

What should the books do?

Not being shitty btw, I'm not pulling a 'well how would YOU do it' I genuinely want to hear an alternative bc the show was disappointing

I think they veered very very far away from the book scenarios.

I am not saying I know how it will go, but at this point in the books we neither have a Night King figure nor Jon fighting White Walkers. (Sam did that while Jon was on a political undercover mission.) The warging and greenseeing play far larger roles. As do themes of historical grievances, grief and wrath and the futility of war.

The show made the Long Night devoid of meaning. A dude needed to be stabbed by a randomly prophecied Stark daughter? Because some COTF stabbed him first? What?

The history of the conflict and how it relates to House Stark and its origin and powers (warging, direwolf connection, greenseeing, kingship) will have to be central. And more than likely this will reveal something unflattering about House Stark, a debt that needs paying or a crime that needs reparation. And Bran Stark (all those Brandons) is the key to that. The actual key. The boy who clings to vast magical powers because he unjustly lost his mobility, who is abusing those powers to escape his grief. Tell me that this won't be part of a meaningful historical and thematic mirror?

Whatever he is learning now through his time with Bloodraven will enable him to create a lasting peace, probably involving the sacrifice of the magic he clings to, righting a historical wrong in the timeline. Probably at Winterfell, yes, in some carefully calibrated scenario. A meeting of some kind, a form of negotiation, a pact, a trade, a peace. The counterpoint to the murder before the young heart tree and the blood Bran could taste in his mouth.

I also have a theory that we will find out how Bran has been subtly manipulating the timeline to arrange pieces to fit for that purpose throughout the story, up to and including not preventing his own terrible injury. And who can and should bring the Wall down if not a Brandon Stark?

I can’t tell if this is dramatic irony from GRRM and he means to subvert it or it’s a statement that may come to fruition ? Targ restoration seems very unlikely but I look at how “no one will ever marry me for love” and the willowy creature line is so obviously dramatic irony but can the same be said for the Dany line? Lot’s of Dany stans think so and obv think it’ll her and Jon’s child…I do find it funny that they’re the same people who claim that Jon’s willowy creature line isn’t ironic at all and that Sansa’s despair over only being chosen for her claim won’t be subverted at all 💀

I think that context here is a key in explaining why the line is begging to be subverted for Sansa, while acting (at best) as false bait in a broader metaphor of doom for Daenerys.

I have no reason to think that Tyrion is wrong in his assessment:

Yes, Tyrion agreed silently. Baelor Hightower was no longer young, but he remained Lord Leyton's heir; wealthy, handsome, and a knight of splendid repute. Baelor Brightsmile, they called him now. Had Elia wed him in place of Rhaegar Targaryen, she might be in Oldtown with her children growing tall around her. (ASOS, Tyrion X)

A much happier Elia, in a city of culture and learning. Not without its challenges, given anti-Dornish sentiment in the Reach, but the honor of wedding a princess and her personal wit and charm might have gone a long way to mending some old wounds there. <3

Hard to picture how things would have proceeded for the Targaryens without Elia, given that she was likely chosen for her Targaryen ancestry, in spite of Aerys's racist contempt, because Steffon was somehow unable to turn up a Valyrian-blooded bride in Volantys. Who would be good enough for the crownprince of a dynasty in dire need of a stable line of succession? They won't have Rhaegar waiting years and years to father an heir, and Aerys has already rejected the daughter of the warden of the West. Catelyn Tully is already betrothed. Lyanna is far too young. Ashara Dayne? Hey, why not Malora Hightower! Something tells me she and Rhaegar would have been a fun match. Mwahahaha. But possibly Targs are superstitious about Hightower brides now.

Of Sansa, brushing out Lady's coat and singing to herself. You know nothing, Jon Snow.  (ADWD, Jon XIII)

Why on earth would she not want Northern independence? She is literally the captive of a tyrant king who killed her father and who regularly has her beaten for Robb's actions. If ever there was an appropriate moment for GRRM to slip in Sansa's political opposition to Northern independence it would be in ACOK?

Instead we get this:

Besides, the lords of the Trident were sworn to Riverrun and House Tully, and to the King in the North; they would never accept Littlefinger as their liege. Unless they are made to. Unless my brother and my uncle and my grandfather are all cast down and killed. The thought made Sansa anxious, but she told herself she was being silly. Robb has beaten them every time. He'll beat Lord Baelish too, if he must. (ACOK, Sansa VII)

Her thoughts are consistently supportive of Robb. His defeat is a betrayal to her.

She would have fled them both, perhaps, but there was nowhere for her to go. Winterfell was burned and desolate, Bran and Rickon dead and cold. Robb had been betrayed and murdered at the Twins, along with their lady mother. (AFFC, Sansa I)

As late as her TWOW sample chapter, she thinks this:

Robb would be his age, if he were still alive, she could not help but think, but Robb died a king, and this is just a boy.

Or do they think she only supports Northern independence if there's a Lannister on the throne and she would be fine returning to the fold once the next monarch is "nice"? Is that "nice" claimant then meant to be Dany, perhance?

In that case, I hope they don't imagine she'll forget the example of the last time Targaryens held the throne, and what even tyranny it meant for House Stark, specifically Rickard and Brandon, their companions, but also Lyanna. The Rebellion broke out because the guy on the throne demanded that Jon Arryn send him Eddard and Robert to kill.

Sansa is a history nerd. She knows this stuff.

The only reason the North as a whole deferred their independence movement was because Ned's bestie was on the throne. The abject enthusiasm with which the Northerners and the Riverlanders spontaneously proclaimed Robb's kingship is a testament to how widely held and popular that general sentiment always was in both regions.

Sansa herself has witnessed the decadence and ignorance that the royal leadership in KL is capable of, unchecked. She also witnessed how weak they are as soon as a region like the Reach witholds its support and resources. What benefit do people imagine she sees in remaining subservient to them?