#problematic couple

@marzacz, @toomania, @t00nl00zer, @sillyautisticsoftshell05, @cinnabon-z, @fuzzul, @2bcringeis2b3, @infezunko, @glazzeater, @imjustaspie, @sparklycandyalpaca, @eminsanguy, @the-little-armored-one, @kassandra-thedemon, @userboi

We've come to the final part of this retrospective.

As I said in the last part, it was revealed that Penny and Victor would still be couple in 320 Freleng Avenue.

As you would expect, people braced themselves for cringe.

Given they were still suffering from the PTSD that Matthew gave them from everything he previously did with them.

And the funny thing is......

This is actually the best the couple has ever been in their entire history.

They're still not good mind you, but when compared to how they were in the original CartoonMania and especially the planned reboot, they're a considerable improvement.

For starters, a lot of the problematic elements of the original have either been removed or heavily toned down.

Now there are still moments of Penny either ambushing Victor and/or smothering him with kissing.

But this is to a considerably lesser degree than it was before.

It also helps that this time around, Penny and Victor actually feel like equals.

So we're not being forced to watch something that while technically not pedophilia or incest, does give off those vibes.

Also, I do kinda like how here, Penny is shown that she can be flustered by Victor herself, which never happened in the original.

So it's not just him constantly being flustered.

Plus, the couple are actually shown to be able to be causal around each other instead of just constantly lovey dovey all the time.

But even with that, there's still a few issues.

We still don't quite have a good grasp on their chemistry, but at least there's an attempt at actually having some.

And then there's Penny herself.

Now Penny is far better than how she was in the original and especially the planned reboot.

She's no longer a damn predator, and her status as a magician is actually focused on!

However, there's stuff like this.

In 320FA, Penny is deliberately antisocial due to being a sheep (and the stereotypes surrounding the animal) and doesn't like to be around really anyone in general because of that.

Which isn't inherently bad for a personality.

But then you look at her relationship with Victor and this whole thing starts to become contradictory.

And while Penny isn't nearly as obsessed with Victor when compared to her original counterparts, she's still very head over heels for him.

Though Matthew did explain why he made Penny and Victor a couple and gave an in-universe backstory on how they even got together in this version.

And it's thankfully much better.

But while we understand why Victor loves Penny, we're never given a reason why she loves him.

Which is strange since.....

1#) Given what Penny's personality is like now, it seems strange that she would even hook up with....anyone in general, let alone be head over heels for them.

And 2#) It's also a stark contrast to the original CartoonMania, where we're given an explanation why Penny loves Victor but not the other way around.

But besides that, another reason why people still don't like this couple (besides trauma) is also because of just how much Matthew constantly talks about them.

It's pretty clear that Penny and Victor are his favorite characters.

And it's understandable for any creator to have their favorites.

But Matthew constantly takes every chance he can to utterly GLAZE these two!

Not helping by the fact that he hardly talks about or give anything to the other CartoonMania characters, including the actual main characters.

Top that off with how much the couple's reputation was already well into the damn toilet thanks to what Matthew did with them in the past.

On his BlueSky and Instagram, most of his 320 Freleng Avenue content was either about PenVic or random fucking background characters.

Which Matthew has really put a huge emphasis on for this series.

I understand it's because he wants to actually make the world actually feel alive this time and give it some personality, but you know you still gotta focus on your actual major characters, right?

Another major point of contention was in regards to the age of the couple.

Remember, in the original, Penny was 5 and Victor was 4.

Which made the NSFW content Matthew notoriously did with the two.....really fucking bad.

And then in the planned reboot, he made them (and everyone else) ageless.

While this change was largely pointless due to the fact that only 4 of the 321 characters had actual confirmed ages (and those 4 characters just so happened to be single digit minors), it also really felt like a desperate attempt to save his own ass (given he was drowning in controversy during this time) and justify his infamous NSFW antics, which he was still doing at this time, given his history of making excuses for his terrible actions.

But in the info on 320FA, from what I've seen, Matthew has yet to give them any official ages.

And given how Penny and Victor don't look too drastically different from how they did before.....

Hell, Victor's design is literally pulled straight from the planned reboot.

Many people believe that they are still the same ages as before.

And while they don't bring the same level of visceral disgust as they did before, Penny and Victor are still doing some things that they really shouldn't be at their age.

Like going on dates or going to make out in the closet.

Plus he also gave them sexualities, like both of them being pansexual, and Victor himself being non-binary.

However, that may not be the case.

You remember how I've been saying that it seems like Matthew actually aged up his kid characters?

Well, this actually kinda proves it.

Here, he doesn't refer to Victor as a boy.

He clearly refers to him as a man!

So it appears that Matthew is actually aging them up to be actual adults.

How old they are specifically, as far as I know, he hasn't given them specific ages yet.

But if I had to guess.

Even though Penny and Victor are adults now, they're still pretty young.

Penny would probably be like 19, and Victor would be 18.

To wrap this up, I want to talk about two things.

The first is what I believe is the ultimate reason why people don't like or vibe with PenVic.

You know, beyond how they're written and everything Matthew had done with them.

That being that the couple (and Penny and Victor themselves as characters) are reflections of Matthew as a person.

In a way, Penny and Victor were both sort of self-inserts of Matthew.

Just not as obvious as literally Matthew fucking Littlemore!

A lot of the traits of Penny and Victor and how they were depicted correlate to aspects of Matthew's life (going off archived posts, forums and DMs left by people who personally knew him).

The reason why Penny and Victor are so creepy and have so many problematic elements was because Matthew was very sheltered and naive to the world around him.

Plus a lot of the social cues Matthew got throughout his life largely came from movies and TV shows.

Which I don't think I need to explain how that's not exactly a good thing.

Since they're either not really true or are wholly exaggerated.

Not helping was how Matthew had multiple mental conditions like ADHD, and most famously, autism.

The reason why Matthew constantly gushes about PenVic is because of his massive ego, as he was known for taking any chance he got to glaze himself.

The reason why Penny acts more like Victor's mother than a normal girlfriend and constantly tickled him was because Matthew was very much coddled growing up (once again, very sheltered) and he's definitely never been in a romantic relationship.

It's also the reason why Victor is so infantilized as well.

And the reason why Penny is depicted as being antisocial and why Victor himself is a social outcast....

While I initially thought this was done out of pettiness and spite towards his old friends, who remember, left him because the nasty things he did to his characters and them, along with treating them like shit.

I also realized it was because Matthew had spent most of his life being a social outcast among his peers and had a hard time getting along with them.

Largely thanks to his mental conditions and upbringing.

Now we come to the second and last part of all this.

That being my hopes on how PenVic will be portrayed when they eventually make their debut.

Even though I would prefer them to just be friends, if they're still gonna be couple, I'd like to see this.....

1#) Make it clear that they are adults, even if they are short.

2#) Give them actual chemistry.

3#) They can still be in love with each other, but just don't do it to an over the top fashion.

4#) Have them feel like actual equals, even if Penny is more confident while Victor is more timid.

5#) Explain and show in-depth on how they even got together, and more importantly, what Penny even sees about Victor that allowed him to even break through her "I don't need anyone" mentality.

And 6#) Maybe have this led to a character arc where Penny learns that being around others and relying on them isn't inherently bad.

Well that's finally it!

I'm finally done with this retrospective.

Let me know what you guys think about this, and I'd like to hear what you guys hope to see from Penny and Victor when they eventually appear.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I actually have faith that Matthew will portray them in a way that's actually decent.

I know people still have their reservations about Matthew given everything he's done.

But given how 320 Freleng Avenue turned out and the comments from the voice actors, it does appear that Matthew is trying to be a better person.

Now it's understandable why people still don't trust Matthew, but I do feel like that it often feels comes from people that don't believe anyone can ever change.

Which is complete bullshit.

You may not be able to change your past, but you can still change yourself to be a better person.

@marzacz, @toomania, @t00nl00zer, @sillyautisticsoftshell05, @cinnabon-z, @fuzzul, @2bcringeis2b3, @infezunko, @glazzeater, @imjustaspie, @sparklycandyalpaca, @eminsanguy, @the-little-armored-one, @kassandra-thedemon, @userboi

As I'm sure most of you know by now, "renowned" animator Matthew Littlemore has recently released the "long-awaited" pilot to 320 Freleng Avenue.

Which itself is a reboot of his previous series, CartoonMania.

It has received a lot of praise....if you only look on YouTube.

Because everywhere else, especially on Twitter, it's getting torn a new one.

And it's largely because of who made it.

For the uninitiated, Matthew was exposed back in 2020 for being a really creepy motherfucker and an all-around asshole.

Making tons of NSFW stuff with his characters....who were canonically minors.....in the single digits.

Being creepy and genuinely predatory around actual minors, from giving them access to his NSFW stuff, to actually flirting with them and sending them sexual texts.

Being verbally abusive to and dismissive of his crew when they were actively trying to help him through his issues.

Actively blaming them for his controversy.

And actively attacking and harassing people he didn't like for very petty and stupid reasons.

With that said, this was a shock to.....pretty much everyone, given that while Matthew has been talking about working on 320FA for years, really nobody thought he was ever gonna get it out.

Largely because, let's be real, with his reputation, chances of him finding people who would willingly work with him were very fucking low.

But by God's grace, Matthew was able to get people to help him out, which he found on a CastingCall.

I made a review of the pilot on the very day it came out, and as I said there, its surprisingly decent.

You can really tell that Matthew has come a long way as a artist and animator.

Comparing this to the very first episode of CartoonMania, which came out in 2016, is geniuenly night and day.

Even more so when you know that this is still being done in OpenOffice Impress.

And even as a writer.

The comedy is considerably better, and there's actual fucking character and world establishment!

Which was sorely missing in the OG CartoonMania.

Now as a person, that's......complicated.

Upon the release of the pilot, a lot of people were understandably concerned, given what happened the last time Matthew had people to work with.

However, shortly after its release, a lot of the voice actors came forth to reveal that they actually had a good time working on the pilot.

And particularly, with the new voice of Tanya, she revealed that Matthew was actually rather professional.

Which was a shock given his....history when it comes to women.

So that's good to hear.

However, the part of him changing as a person becomes complicated because of.....

This.

Given how one of the things that got Matthew into trouble prior was the infamous 69th Floor animation from 2018, which depicted Tanya bellydancing in reveal attire, with gratuitous focus on her private areas.

Not helped by the fact that she's canonically 8!

Or the fact it was revealed that it was one of his many fetishes.

However, given from how she and Timmy sound, it seems that Matthew is trying to make older than they were in the original.

Being like, short young adults ala Mickey and Minnie Mouse.

But even then, the bellydancing is still kinda awkward given Matthew's history with it.

However, he did reveal that he actively did research on the topic of bellydancing to make it as accurate as possible.

Not only that, but the bellydancing isn't portrayed in sexual manner at all.

Which is a good thing.

Since I think this needs to be addressed.

It's pretty well-known that bellydancing is often seen as a sexual performance.

When in reality, it isn't.

It's actually a form of self-expression, social celebration, and folkloric artistry originating from Middle Eastern, North African, and Mediterranean cultures.

The consensus of bellydancing being sexual is unfortunately the result of Orientalism.

And unfortunately, that was the mindset that Matthew was leaning towards with the NSFW stuff he did with Tanya during the original CartoonMania.

So comparing that to how it's portrayed now, I'd say it's a massive improvement.

Overall, it does seem like Matthew has actually changed for the better.....or at the very least is starting/trying to change.

I know most people would try to say otherwise, given the chances he was given before....which he fucked up.

Plus having any actual faith in something/someone on the Internet, especially on Twitter, has become as rare as anyone actually having a filter anymore.

However, I think what would really make people show that Matthew has changed is how he portrays the resident couple of CartoonMania and 320 Freleng Avenue: Penny and Victor.

These two live in infamy in CartoonMania's history, largely because they played a major part in Matthew's previous downfall.

So today, I want to discuss about what went wrong with their original counterparts, how they're currently being portrayed, and my hopes for their dynamic when they officially make their debut in 320FA.

Like all of Matthew's characters, Penny and Victor made their debut in CartoonMania, where they were two of the seven main characters.

But as I've said before, you wouldn't really be able to know that since for pretty much the entire series, with the exception of Matthew and Stanley, they were all essentially glorified background characters.

Although Penny and Victor did appeared through a decent amount of the series, they never talked at all.

This understandably confused everyone since it seems kinda stupid to have a main cast, but only really using two of them.

The reason for this was because at the time, Matthew didn’t have any other voice actors to play the roles.

And although pretty much everyone was telling Matthew to use characters who were actually prominent as the real main characters like The Stickfigure Brothers and Wacky Quacky, Matthew didn't really budge on that front.

Even though it just made him look stupid since, once again, only two of the seven could actually talk.

But anyway, Penny and Victor's first interaction was in the Halloween special: Handle with Scare.

As the toons were hiding in the closet from the "ghost", Zack Zebra reveals that Victor has a crush on Penny, much to both of their shock.

But after that, Victor looks at embarrassingly at Penny, only for her to look back with a romantic, confident smile, what's essentially bedroom eyes and a blush, much to his surprise.

And immediately after that, his embarrassed look turns into a bashful smile and a blush.

Their next two moments would be in Christmas special: XMas Marks the Spot, and the Valentine's Day short.

The first has Penny kissing Victor under the mistletoe after he puts it up there, leading to the aforementioned reaction of her looking at him with bedroom eyes while he looks bashfully and blushes.

The second is solely focused on them, with Victor gifting Penny some flowers, result in her kissing him and hugging him, with the same expression as before.

Overall, the general consensus on the couple was....

Largely because, as I said before, they were basically background characters....like most of the cast in general.

Seriously, why did Matthew think working with a cast of 321 characters was a good idea?

So nobody could really give any sort of thoughts on them since they were barely characters at all.

However, that all changed in October 2017, when Matthew began the CartoonMania comic series.

Here, the main seven were actual characters with actual prominence.

And this was where everything started to go downhill.

We got to finally see Penny and Victor as a couple.

As for how they were depicted, well...

She constantly ambushes him with hugs, kisses and tickles everyday.

They call each other names like “sweetie” and “honey”, and Penny often looks at Victor with the aforementioned bedroom eyes.

They go on dates.

Penny is shown coddle and be very overprotective of Victor, to the point of threatening people whenever they just want to talk to him.

And as just shown, she refers to Victor as her "baby".

This didn't sit well with.....really anyone.

Since to be honest, what was going on was pretty weird and kinda creepy.

And that creepiness is only accentuated by the fact that, to be frank, Penny is a fucking predator.

She unfortunately shares a lot of traits commonly seen with sexual predators.

She constantly disregards Victor’s personal space to ambush him with hugs, kisses and tickles.

She showers him excessive gifts, as shown with the shit-ton of chocolate in the Valentine’s comic.

She flips her shit anytime anyone even dares to interact with Victor whenever she’s around.

And refers to Victor as "her baby", as another common trait among predators is that their victim is their property.

Not to mention the relationship itself feels like a romanticization of sexual harassment, thanks to the clear lack of any sort of boundaries, which is important for any sort of healthy romantic relationship.

And when you consider a particular movement that was going on around this time, this seemed very tone deaf and ignorant on Matthew's part.

But all of this was made worse when you consider their ages.

As revealed by Matthew on his socials and in official character bios, Penny is canonically 5 and Victor is 4.

Yeah.....

Pretty everyone was not exactly taking the fact that this problematic and very creepy romance was being done between two minors, in the SINGLE DIGITS, too well.

Has there ever been a cartoon?

Fuck it, any piece of media that has depicted kids from around that age range dating?

No, not really.

Whenever characters who are canonically underaged are shown dating, they’re usually depicted as teenagers.

Or at the very least, pre-teens.

This series is trying to make a romantic couple out of two individuals who legally should be in PRESCHOOL!

And the fucked-up thing is that even if the genders were reversed, I'm certain that Matthew would still portray the relationship the exact same way.

I mean, when you consider his history involving how he's treated females, this shouldn't be too surprising.

And the cherry on top to all this is their personalities and how they're depicted.

As I've said before, one of the biggest flaws of CartoonMania is the lack of depth and exploration to.....literally anything.

Throughout the series, we never really learn anything about the characters or the world of the series.

And in terms of the characters' personalities, they're fairly one-note.

And Penny probably exemplifies this the worst.

As you can clearly see, her entire character is just being in love with Victor.

That's it!

As I've said before, this is very much misogynistic.

You know, having a female character whose entire existence just revolves around their love interest and not having any sort of agency outside of that.

Just about every moment involving Penny finds some way to mention Victor.

Like my God, she has no existence outside of him.

That's all she's good for.

Being an love interest.

And a shitty one at that.

Plus the fact that she's, once again, a fucking predator, is not helping either.

Victor on the other hand is like, the only character in this series to actually have a fleshed-out personality.

He's literally the best character in this entire thing.

However, even he suffers from this relationship.

Largely because it kinda infantilizes him.

Which I know sounds weird given he's literally 4-years old, but think about this.

Another flaw of Penny and Victor's relationship is that they don't really feel like equals, which is an important part of any good relationship.

And that's because of how they act.

Victor feels like an actual 4-year old, being depicted as fairly innocent and naive.

But Penny, who despite being literally a year older than him, doesn't even feel like she's 5 at all.

Hell, she doesn't even feel like she's in the same age range.

She feels more like a teenager or even a young adult, largely because she's clearly shown to be far more mature and competent when compared to Victor.

And because of that, it leads to this major power imbalance, being that Penny is the one to run everything and Victor has to always follow.

And it feels like Penny is taking advantage of Victor's innocence and naivete for the sake of romance.

Which only adds to the predatory nature of the relationship.

Not helping is how Victor is clearly depicted as being complacent with Penny's over the top love for him.

Seriously.

I'm certain that if anyone else had to deal with a lover who constantly given them physical affection whether they wanted it or not, constantly coddled them, showered them with excessive gifts, and went full psycho the moment they dared to interact with anyone else in a casual manner, they would a few seconds away for losing it!

And lastly, the relationship itself was just very shallow.

Now I guess that's to be expected given how this is CartoonMania, and the presence of actual character is about certain as Disney or Nickelodeon ever acknowledging Doug.

But what doesn't help is how Matthew clearly wants use to see this relationship as truly romantic.

Even though.....

1#) It's weird and creepy.

2#) It's between two single digit MINORS, which only adds to the creepiness.

3#) We don't even really know either one of them as characters on their own.

4#) They have no goddamn chemistry whatsoever.

And 5#) We don't even know how they became a couple!

And while he did a comic on why Penny loves Victor.

We never get anything on why Victor loves Penny.

Seriously, why does he?

These comics ended up being a major turning point for couple.

Whenever Penny and Victor were together for a scene, the reactions went from ....

To.....

For their next appearances, we would receive.....

-Constant hand holding.

-Nuzzling.

And who could forget?

-Bedroom eyes and bashful smiling!

And in the sole comic book that Matthew made for CartoonMania, we were getting glorious moments like this.

First off, did Matthew really think that Penny saying wouldn't come off as creepy?

And second, Matthew, dude....

However, in the fall and winter of 2018, Matthew would get into trouble for the first time solely because of the couple with the two-parter comic: Hug a Sheep Day.

And you can clearly see why.

This comic landed Matthew in hot water for a short while, due to the obvious fact that he was literally doing an innuendo for SEX with a couple who are canonically the ages of 5 and 4.

When confronted about this, Matthew would use the excuse that it was just adult humor.

Sure Matthew, keep saying that.

During those next appearances, another thing was added was that whenever the CartoonMania cast was together for a group shot, and while they were looking at something, Penny was looking at Victor.

While it may be somewhat small, it's still pretty annoying because it just emphasizes how Penny has literally no character outside of being into Victor.

However, the couple would see a major turning point with the episode Whatever Happened to Victor Virus?

This episode was a major milestone for three particular reasons.

1#) It was the first non-holiday episode to be over just a few minutes long. Roughly about 12.

2#) It was the last official episode of the series.

3#) For the very first time, Penny actually TALKED! Now being voiced by PinkGalaxxy aka Gizzy.

As for Victor, he talked about two times prior to this episode, being voiced by Matthew himself, who used a special filter to make himself sound younger.

But in this episode, he would be voiced by Tenor Ridgway, who also went on to voice Timmy as well.

This is hands down the best episode of the series, for one sole reason.....

THERE'S A FOCUS ON ACTUAL CHARACTER!

The episode dives into the origins of Victor, revealing that his creation was a mistake on Matthew's part, having downloaded a faulty software in order to color him in.

Plus it also serves as the introduction of The Animated Lifeform Printer, which is what Matthew used to create his characters.

The conflict of the episode comes from Victor grappling with his accidental existence and Matthew grappling with the guilt of making him this way.

It's surprisingly well done.

And we also get a moment between Penny and Victor that doesn't make me want to kick the former down a flight of stairs.

That being her reassuring Victor that no one is perfect, but it shouldn't be something that he should be ashamed.

And how everyone is all here for each other.

It's a pretty good scene, and for the first (and only time) Penny and Victor showed the potential of being a good couple.

Largely because for once, they were having an interaction that wasn't overly lovey dovey and romantical.

It was just.....normal and causal.

Like a good relationship should be.

And then it gets promptly ruined by this shit.

However, little did people know that Matthew was something even worse with the couple.

Yep, it's time to talk about you know what.....

During most of 2019, Matthew was doing particular things with Penny and Victor on his Discord.

These include roleplays of them doing something that tickles one of them in a way, then turning it into something romantic.

Short roleplays of Penny teasing Victor into tickling her.

Other short roleplays of Victor CUMMING onto Penny's face!

A roleplay of Victor tickling Penny until she FUCKING CLIMAXES!

A brief explanation on how computer viruses reproduce.

And very suggestive art, including one of Penny doing a literal ORGASM face!

For anyone who is not asking to end up on a watchlist, this was not good.

At all.

The fact that Matthew purposely did this shit with two characters who he purposely made to be little kids is genuinely repulsive.

Especially when you remember what he infamously did to actual real-life minors!

Hell, and the fucked up thing is that he didn’t even need to make them children!

They could’ve just been small young adults like Mickey and Minnie, or other notable toon characters like Felix the Cat.

It would’ve been so easy to do!

And while it would’ve still made him doing all this still very weird, at least wouldn’t have been nowhere near as disgusting.

If you have to explain how your underage characters would reproduce, you need to be locked up in Arkham Asylum.

Also, if it wasn’t made clear already from the art, the roleplays, and the comics…..Matthew had a massive tickling fetish.

As you could see, it was not well hidden.

It was literally the definition of….

Matthew also had a subtle fat fetish as well.

As when compared to most of the other female CartoonMania characters, Penny has a notably big outward gut.

And as shown, whenever she was in here pajamas, her navel was always exposed, which just looks weird.

Also, fun fact.

Matthew actually had designs for Penny and Victor being older.

However, these aren’t much better since if the braces weren’t a dead giveaway, this is them as teenagers.

And while if Matthew did do this NSFW shit with the couple as teenagers, it still would’ve been really bad, but not nearly as so as doing it to them while not being much older than literal fucking TODDLERS!

This shit landed Matthew in a lot of trouble with both people (including friends) who had access to his Discord and his own crew.

And this wasn’t the first time he had gotten into trouble for his NSFW antics.

That was (as far as I can find) with the aforementioned 69th Floor animation, which he made back in mid-2018.

When he was confronted about this, he constantly said that Tanya and Penny were just young…..while constantly tip-toeing around how young they really were.

And tried to excuse it as just being fan service.

Once again, it was basically…..

As you would expect, the animation got leaked onto Twitter and YouTube.

Though it did get taken down shortly after.

But anyway, we fast forward to September 2019, where CartoonMania was about reach its very peak.

As well as the beginning of its eventual downfall.

And that was with CartoonMania: The Movie!

Overall, it was the thing to ever exist.

Side note: it's geniuenly hilarious that this the first time that any of the characters are actually being established.....and it's the series finale.

But anyway, this movie would become fairly notorious for having some……very questionable content.