#polite particles

He's using the "ha" particle.

It's a version of kha, but also something a bit different. It's a softening of politeness, household intimate but not rude, warm. It's also a touch feminine, straight men flirting with their girlfriends or at home with wives may use the ha. Brothers with younger sisters. For example Phun uses ha with his beloved little sister in Love Sick.

It's also used by... gay men with each other. (So is ja, but ja is more camp and harsh.)

There's a kind of pulling back on tough masculinity with the use of ha. It's also pretty linguistically modern. So it's more common with younger generations. In Bangkok you'll hear it paired with borrowed words, especially English ones. For example: okay ha.

What's interesting about Him, is that he used ha with Nail RIGHT away. He didn't start polite, he jumped right into ha. This told Nail instantly that Him was a probubly a player and that he was gay. Note Him has never gone back? He always uses ha with Nail, he's the only character I've ever heard do this in a BL. Usually ha is situational and circumstantial. For special occasions not everyday wear.

I love it. It's a very telling characteristic and personality trait. It says a lot about Him and how hard he is trying to make this second relationship work.

It also makes him very very slightly... sleazy.

Incidentally, Nail avoided polite particles all together, he's rude and curt, as a kind of flirtation.

FYI. Men will also use kha on women, especially when flirting or with MUCH younger girls. For example when Pete (very VERY polite character) meets Ae's toddler niece he uses kha in Love By Chance.

My main association of it is as the particle older women use with young adult characters. For example, we see Dean’s grandmother use it with Dean and Pharm in UWMA, and Than’s mother, Kwan, uses it when she meets Praifah. (Praifah: “Sawatdee kha” Kwan: “Sawatdee ja”.)

The impression I’ve always gotten is that it’s a way to capture the “ladylike” charm of politeness without implying any actual formality, social equality, or social distance. But I have no idea if that’s accurate or not.

However, I feel like I’ve heard the actual male young-adult characters using it recently, and not in a way that seems to have any intended gender or sexuality implications like some of the other alternative particles. Instead it seems to be a campy flourish when one is being overdramatic or jokey. Main example is MSP/MSP Our Skyy 2, where I know I heard at least Tinn and Por use it (and I’ve seen Ford use it on social media), and I think Gun as well. For example, when Tinn serves the jumba shaved ice in Our Skyy 2 when he does the weird hip-thrusting joke (which I still don’t understand) and says “Jumba ma laaeo ja” (“Jumba is served”).

Have you noticed this as well? Any idea if this a new usage or one that always existed but just hadn’t made its way into BL previously or hadn’t been popular with “the youths” until recently?

The Ja Particle - Thai Linguistics & Polite Particles

Thai particles and pronouns are pretty unfixed and evolve FAST.

Ja is a bit like ha but much less household intimate, also less soft. It's informal but not rude. It implies a level of familial/friendship intimacy but not over-familiarity or necessary equality. (so not like guu/mueng or wa).

It's most often used by elders to youngsters or amongst peers. I would be super cautious, and liable to pay close attention, if it showed up used by a younger person to an elder. That would be... unusual, and likely impolite. Husbands may use with wives, or parents with a group of their kids, or kids group of friends.

Not something a tourist should use.

For example, we see Dean’s grandmother use it with Dean and Pharm in UWMA, and Than’s mother, Kwan, uses it when she meets Praifah. (Praifah: “Sawatdee kha” Kwan: “Sawatdee ja”.)

This a a softening and acknowledgment of the kid's polite behavior. It's being used to "bring down to earth" the adult character in a way. Implies that the adult is "cool" or less stiff than others of their age might be.

The impression I’ve always gotten is that it’s a way to capture the “ladylike” charm of politeness without implying any actual formality, social equality, or social distance. But I have no idea if that’s accurate or not.

I don't think it has a feminine association, maybe a little bit. You do hear men using it. And queer men all the time. So maybe a little bit. It's more of a code switch.

So if a man is using it with his wife he is softening himself to meet her on her linguistic level. Adult to child, older to younger. Social positioning-wize. It's not lowering, its cross pollinating.

However, I feel like I’ve heard the actual male young-adult characters using it recently, and not in a way that seems to have any intended gender or sexuality implications like some of the other alternative particles. Instead it seems to be a campy flourish when one is being overdramatic or jokey. Main example is MSP/MSP Our Skyy 2, where I know I heard at least Tinn and Por use it (and I’ve seen Ford use it on social media), and I think Gun as well. For example, when Tinn serves the jumba shaved ice in Our Skyy 2 when he does the weird hip-thrusting joke (which I still don’t understand) and says “Jumba ma laaeo ja” (“Jumba is served”).

Yes, notice its emphasis and intonation is much different when used in this context? That's sarcasm and mockery. The WAY THE WORD IS SAID is really important in Thai. They have 5 tonal intonations. 5.

In this instance the ja is a bit like:

A gay boy yelling to his gay boy friends: "Hey bitches!"

Or a dude bro yelling to the other dudes, "'Zup assholes?"

Perhaps not quite so rude but there is a campy insolence going on that's only to be deployed with peers and that's all in the intonation.

Ja is ALSO often used by kathoey, lesbians, and gay men (especially those who request/use the pronoun jay) within the queer community. It's mostly gender neutral so it can sub in for krap/kha if you don't want to ID your gender. As, indeed, can ha.

I have noticed a rise in its use in BL. Recently.

I don't know if this rise is due to:

A rise in its use in Thai common parlance as well.

The general queering up of the BL genre.

Confirmation bias, I am also listening for it more.

The general softening around pronouns and language allowed to appear on mainstream Thai TV.*

(* for those who don't know guu/mueng have only been allowed on TV recently)

My Stuff on Thai Particles

You ready for another one of my long broad brush linguistics in BL posts? (As always check the comments for people better than me correcting or adding content. Also I will be updating this post as long as Tumblr lets me fiddle with it.) 

Codicil: I’m a dilettante who loves the cultural side of linguistics, and loves to help people understand BL better via language. I attempt to explain things using very simplistic terms and an anthropological approach, I am aware that it’s a lot more complicated. But I’m doing my best. 

Codicil 2: This is meant to help BL watchers, not to guide tourists who in intend to travel to these countries. 

Honorifics in General - the concept

Honorifics = a title or word implying or expressing status, politeness, or respect.

Many Asian languages employ honorifics in a filial manner (distinguishing status along generational lines with regards to birth year, professional relationship, and parental state). Basically calling someone who is NOT an actual blood relation “older brother” (e.g. Korean hyung or oppa) or “younger sibling” (e.g. Thai nong), or auntie (see many Indian or Latin American cultures). These can also be a kind of endearment in romantic relationships. 

The closest most westerns can think of this is that the honorific is used as a way to delineate an intimate relationship/friendship across an age gap, but its implications are not always intimacy. (Except when they very much are, see oppa.) 

You may be familiar with a phrases like “we’re so close she’s like my sister” or “he’s like a brother to me.” 

However, because most westerners exist in relationships to peers only under the broad umbrella term friend, we will only use “like my sister” or “basically my brother” when someone is particularly dear to us but not sexually. 

In most Asian languages, honorifics are more codified. So there is a status conferred by age which dictates honorifics be used. They’re mandatory for communication. Intimacy levels between individuals CAN impact this, but are not the primary decider on what honorific is used under most circumstances. Position in society is.

So these terms are often defined (or even translated) with sibling language. See early Thai BLs translate phi as bro, but that’s not strictly correct. 

There are also often honorifics for larger age gaps (so more like auntie or uncle, delineating relationships like adult neighbors or a friend’s parents, or parents’ friends). 

And there are honorifics for people in authority positions (like doctors, teachers, bosses) who are usually older (but not always). These honorifics are employed in the arenas of education, hobby activities (like ceramic classes or martial arts) and the workplace.

For many, informality of older to younger will be characterized by use of casual (or rude) language and lack of honorifics (from the older person to the younger one). So the older character will have one mode of address and way of talking, while the younger character exists in a more formal register when they are speaking back to someone older. 

In other words, an older person can speak informally to a younger one, but not the reverse. (Yaja time excepted...) 

Complexity of Honorifics as Elements of Language 

Honorifics can function as titles:

Honorifics can be translated as/like titles. This is is the kind of thing we are most familiar with: Mister, Mrs, Mz, Miss, Master, Mistress, Sir, Madam, Ma’am are all, technically, honorifics. So are certain forms of address and royal titles, “The honorable” for example. Anything you might put in front of a name to add formality in English probubly qualifies as an honorific.  

Honorifics can function as pronouns:

Or modes of address. For example the title boss, in English can also be used to call or refer to someone directly. “Hi, boss!” or “my boss” or “the boss says.” Honorifics serve the same function. In this way they can become pronouns. You can, in Korean, just call someone “hyung” it acts as the you pronoun for direct address. And often they can also be used in the 3rd person. So my “hyung” did such and such. This is why hyung = brother in a lot of translations. Because English uses brother in much the same way, it can act as both a 2nd or 3rd person pronoun. (Rarely first, but that’s an issue with English, that our first person pronoun is so inflexible.) 

In Thai you can refer to a friend as phi (you pronoun in direct address, or use it as a she/he/they pronoun in third person) or you may refer to yourself as phi (using it as an I pronoun). In other words, phi can entirely replace a person’s name in all linguistic uses. 

He/She/They goes to the store = phi goes to the store (when talking about my older friend to someone else) 

I go to the store = phi go to the store (when talking to a younger person about my own actions), and 

you go to the store = phi go to the sore (when talking to an older friend about something they are going to do - direct address) 

Honorifics are also suffixes:

In Korean and Japanese honorifics are also attached to names in the form of suffixes. See the Japanese section. (Also sometimes prefixes, argh.) 

Honoring is also attached to particles:

In Thai, polite particles confer respect levels as well, which means they also contain within them certain aspects of status and honorifics. See the Thai section. 

The best way to understand honorifics in BL is by example. 

Ready? 

Korean - Honorific titles: Hyung, Noona, Oppa & Beyond  

I’m starting with Korean because it is the most spoken and understood by westerners these days. I can only address this as a layperson who watches too many Kdramas. 

Korean names in brief: 

In Korea names are said family name first (what we call surname or last name) and then given name second (what we would call first name). Usually the family name is single barreled or one syllable, but the given name is double barreled or two syllables. So: Chu Sang Woo = Chu (family name) Sang Woo (given name, always said together). This is why I will usually refer to BL characters by their first name as a combo, e.g. SangWoo. In formal address, however is would be Chu SangWoo-ssi. Usually the entire name is said (see comments). Even when JaeYoung is being rude he usually says “Chu SangWoo.” 

Korean honorifics you’ll hear:

Hyung | hyeong 형 - is said by a younger male when addressing an older male. I will use the term Hyung Romances for BLs that feature a younger seme pursing and older uke because...  

Noona | nuna 누나 - is said by a younger male when addressing an older female and is responsible for the accepted series category “Noona romances” which are dramas that feature a younger boy pursuing an older woman. 

Oppa 오빠 - is said by a younger female when addressing an older male. Also used by girlfriends addressing their boyfriends, or wanna-be boyfriends. Under a romantic context oppa is considered somewhat cringe/cheesy/cutsie.  

Unni | eonni 언니 - is said by a younger female when addressing an older female.  

Sunbae | seonbae 선배 - is said by a younger person to an older person (gender neutral) and is more formal. It can be used in the workplace and it mostly about seniority and less familial.

Hoobae | hubae 후배 - is said to/of a younger person, either across a generational gap, or within a workspace environment, again this one is about seniority and less familial.* 

Although an older person’s filial and social responsibility to a youngster is always in play. 

In Kpop you’ll hear sunbae used a lot by younger (say 4th gen) groups when referring to older groups within the industry. Or when talking about Kpop idols who they don’t personally know (or are so big they’re nervous about any assumption of intimacy). On reality shows like Queendom or Kingdom it’s particularly telling. Some of the funniest moments of Kingdom Legendary Wars is any time Penal (an American from BTOB - an older v established group) tries to convince the youngsters, some of them 10 years his juniors, to use casual language (drop honorifics). The poor things get SO confused. 

BL Deeper Meanings behind Hyung 

Okay so the best show to watch for this one is Semantic Error. 

SangWoo starts out calling JaeYoung sunbae and rarely goes less formal. Technically sunbae is polite, but also slightly insulting in a university narrative of this type. Let me try to explain. Because as they become more intimate, combative or not, friends or frenemies, SangWoo should switch to using hyung, but he pointedly does NOT. 

JaeYoung, on the other hand, always uses extremely informal (to the point of rude) language with SangWoo. (Culturally, he allowed such informality as he is SangWoo’s senior both at university, and in age). But you can watch him get annoyed that SangWoo insists on sticking to sunbae, to the point where he demands SangWoo use hyung. 

Then after that, anytime SangWoo does use hyung JaeYoung totally melts for it, because it was hard fought and won, and it means something powerful and significant is shifting in their intimacy as a result. 

During the mutual kissing at the bar scene, Semantic Error drops yaja time on us. Yaja time is a sanctified reversal of honorifics that essentially allows for a younger person to speak their mind informally and without repercussions (or supposedly so). It’s a kind of way to flirt and tease, but also somewhat taboo and titillating as a game to play when tipsy. You get yaja time in bars/clubs sometimes, like happy hour. If you watch the final episode of Kpop reality show I-land you’ll see a real word example of yaja time in action amongst the contestants, it’s adorable and very funny. 

Semantic Error uses yaja time as an opportunity for drunk SangWoo to finally talk about his real feelings, without the pressure of linguistic formality. 

They also use it for JaeYoung to drop the sluttiest most flirtatious hyungs in the history of all hyunging. Seriously, the boy is dripping seduction with that one world. Why? Because HE CAN. He is making the formality itself a kind of kink. 

You can watch these two on the promo circuit attempt yaja time and even though they have an easy brotherly relationship, you can still see how uncomfortable it makes Jae Chan in particular. 

Other honorific play in Semantic Error: 

The girl who is interested in dating SangWoo calls him oppa, and ALSO requests to use a nickname+oppa with him (the nickname means lettuce). That is pretty blatant flirting. But note she specifically asks if she is allowed to do so? 

Later when JaeYoung confronts her and stakes his claim, notice the thing he really wants corrected is her language with SangWoo? He wants her to go all the way beyond sunbae to formality by using the honorific suffix 씨 (ssi). But there’s also more lettuce wordplay here (I think) because he isn’t insisting she use SangWoo’s full name. 

“You should call him Chu-ssi” which is translated into English as “Mr Chu.” 

A word on oppa and queerness. 

Because the implication is that the person saying oppa is female, you will rarely hear boys use this term for their boyfriends (even if they are out gay, unless they are femme and/or cultivating the association for a very specific and culturally subversive of kinky reason). 

Exception: non native speakers who are happy to fart around with us and the Korean social structure. So early on, NCT’s (Kpop monster group) Mark (Canadian) would refer to Yuta (Japanese) as oppa. I’m not gonna unpack their relationship, but trust me when I say, no native Korean idol would have ever done this, not right now in Korea’s current social state. Well... maybe Holland but that’s a whole other discussion. 

To complicate matters Korean also uses honorific suffixes, but I’m not gonna go into them here. (Read more about Korean honorifics.) 

Instead I’m gonna use Japanese to talk honorific suffixes. Ready? 

Japanese - Names & Honorifics: suffixes & titles 

Like Korean, Japanese uses both suffixes and title honorifics. But I find the suffixes much easier to hear in Japanese than Korean, probubly because I’ve more experience with the language. 

Note: As a foreigner in Japan I’ve alway found it best/easiest to refer to someone using surname-san. 

Japanese names in brief:

Names are said family name first and then given name. But actually, given names are rarely, if ever, said AT ALL (after an initial introduction). 

In BL dramas almost all character’s names and everyday use name will be the family name. (Children are different, but not many of those in JBL.) Teachers may refer to their students by given name-kun. 

So in Old Fashion Cupcake Togawa is his family name (not given name). Nozue (also a surname) who is both older and Togawa’s boss, refers to Togawa simply as Togawa, with no honorifics, probubly because they are both adult characters and have been coworkers for so long, Togawa-kun would be... odd. 

Togawa on the other hand, ALWAYS refers to Nozue as Nozue-san. Even in times of EXTREME intimacy the honorific -san is ALWAYS used. 

We have no idea what the given names are for these characters because we never got to that point of intimacy in their relationship. In Japanese romances the given name is usually the ultimate intimacy and is not exchanged until well into a relationship, sometimes after sex or even after marriage. You can watch the delicate maneuvering around this aspect of intimacy in the kinky het drama Sweat & Soap (it’s not BL, but I still love it, on Viki.) 

Japanese Suffixes you hear the most in BL: 

-chan = is intimate and cute for children, or amongst female friends, or female family/intimates (like your grandma) 

-kun = is for respected juniors, younger or junior co-workers, or young boys, and amongst friends 

-san = is formal/polite and for general use, amongst friends, equals, strangers, and acquaintances 

The best BL to watch to hear all three of these in constant use is Minato’s Laundromat. 

Shin always calls Minato, Minato-san and gets very annoyed when anyone doesn’t do this who should (he want’s his man properly respected). Note that he puts Minato-san into his phone as Akira, tho... daring boy.  

Asuka calls Minato: Akira-san, which he shouldn’t as a kid a generation younger than Minato. He gets away with it because he and Minato are from the same neighborhood and have similar open, friendly natures.  

Minato, on the other hand, struggles with what to call Shin. Technically he should use Katsuki-kun or even Katsuki-chan (which is what he uses on Shin’s sister). Which is Shin’s surname + the suffix for a junior. But Minato is a causal person, so he never bothered with a suffix even at first. Now, informal language is fine from an older person to a younger one, if they have the right personality. But under BL circumstances, Minato’s lack of honorifics kind of gave Shin license to flirt. The moment Minato asked if he could use the nickname Shin he was a goner. 

As Shin becomes more aggressive in his pursuit, Minato hops desperately between different suffixes to try to control the situation: 

Shin (informal and friendly), 

Shin-chan (diminutive, under this context = somewhat demeaning, considering what Shin wants from him), Minato is intentionally lowering Shin’s status and emphasizing his youth when he applies -chan, 

Shin-kun (when he thinks Shin is mad at him, or in public, or when he is annoyed and wants to add formality and distance) 

I talk quite a bit about this in my squee watch of this series. 

Putting someone who should be (or is usually) address by one combo of name (first or last) + suffix into another, by changing either the name of the suffix or both, always has narrative significance for character development or plot or both in Japanese romances. Which is why you get more from the story if you train your ear to listen for these. 

In the picture above, Takara is using -san for sarcasm and to gently chide Amagi. Usually he just uses Amagi with no honorific (they are the same age, and he is a curt characters) or Amagi-kun in public of for call/response address. He has moved to a higher level of formality for emphasis and to make a point in this scene. Communicating properly and avoiding conflict is a hallmark of his character, also (as the seme) he wants to control Amagi. This is all wrapped up in that personality and attitude. He is being teasing and sarcastic, but he is also stressing that this dialogue is important to him. 

Read more on Japanese honorific suffixes here.

Japanese honorific titles you hear the most in BL:

Senpai (先輩、せんぱい) - senior colleague or classmate, roughly equivalent to the Korean sunbae or Thai phi 

Sensei (先生、せんせい) - refers to teachers as well as people who are experts in their respective fields, like doctors, artists, professors, martial arts instructors, or lawyers 

The best BL to watch for use of honorific titles in Japanese is... bet you thought I wasn’t gonna manage to shoehorn it in.... Seven Days!

*insert wild cheering* 

Sereyo (younger) seems to relish and very much enjoy and flirt by using the honorific senpai with Yuzuru. It’s hard to explain, but the way Sereyo says "senpai” whenever they meet is very very... cute. 

You can hear these characters use sensei when in archery practice. And you can hear use of some family suffixes and honorifics since we follow both characters back to their respective homes. 

Sereyo calls Yuzuru, Yuzuru-san, which is Yuzuru’s GIVEN NAME + the honorific. This is unexpected because Yuzuru is his senior. He should call him by his surname + honorific: Shino-san. 

But Sereyo has an issue, which is that Yuzuru has the same last name as his ex-girlfriend, who was also older. So in his previous relationship, Sereyo called his lover: Shino-san, and he doesn’t want to use the same exact name with his new lover, Yuzuru. So despite Yuzuru being his senior, he asks to use Yuzuru’s first name as a mode of address. Yuzuru being the kind of casual blunt personality he is, doesn’t mind the inherent informality and permits this right away. 

More on Japanese honorifics here. 

Mandarin Chinese Honorifics 

Ho boy am I not going to climb into this one. But I will point out that to confuse matters many Chinese honorifics are actually also blood relation titles - 哥 ge (older brother) 弟 di (younger brother) - (like phi/nong, par/ar, hia/jay in Thai). In other words, the honorific actually is both brother (honorable title) and brother (actual word) AND will be applied to cousins. As in: the word for cousin is ALSO the same word as brother. 

In Thai to clear up this relationship a character will often have to state it blatantly: "my real actual older bother, by blood, and not an older male friend” (since phi means both) and not a lover. See this grappled with as a jealously plot point in Star in My Mind. 

But in some Chinese BLs they will also have to explain and distinguish actual blood relationships as different between cousins and siblings. You can watch Addicted deal with these nuances. 

It should be noted for the BL crowd that Mainland Mandarin and Taiwanese Mandarin are ALSO different. So there are language nuances to Taiwanese BL that do not exist in Mainland BL (when it was around) and vice versa. And because Taiwan recognizes equal rights, there is also a whole adapted Chinese linguistic set around queerness. 

I’m mentioning Chinese in this post mainly because it will come into play with Thai honorifics: hia & jie/jay 姐. Personally I struggle to even distinguish names let alone honorifics, I find Mandarin a particularly difficult language. 

Thai - Honorifics, Pronouns, Particles & beyond phi/nong 

I have quite a bit on Thai honorifics and their complexity plus how it relates to BL.

Thai Honorifics Between Ages in BL and real life 

More on Thai Linguistic Registers - Particles & Honorifics 

Thai Pronouns & Honorifics when Seme/Uke is Flipped 

Sarcastic use of honorifics & polite particles in Thai

Linguistic Fun In Thai BL - couples 

The Nu Diminutive in Thai 

Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity 

The most important thing to know, and how it’s different from Korean, is that phi & nong are gender neutral. 

Also honorifics and politeness in Thai plays into both pronoun use and polite particles. Thailand does not have honorific suffixes like Japan or Korea, instead particles (which are kind of like spoken punctuation) come into play. 

It’s complicated, in that there are a lots of ways to indicate relationships in Thai. But less complicated in that, at heart, gender doesn’t impact it as much as in Korean or Vietnamese. Instead, like Japanese’s -san, you can default to formal register by remembering to use khun (+ polite particles). 

Loosely? 

Phi = hyung, noona, unni, oppa, sunbae, or senpai, and its gender neutral. 

Nong = hoobae or -kun or -chan, but is rarely used in direct address. Instead, informality in Thai is characterized by use of casual (or rude) language and lack of honorifics (from the older person to the younger one) + rude or  informal particles. Nong is also gender neutral and can be used as you pronoun (rarely as I), or as a third person pronoun to refer to pets, or as a diminutive attached to a name, it’s... complicated. 

Actually episode 10 of Love Mechanics plays with this. Vee whispers in Mark’s ear the equivalent to “Phi’Vee loves cute nong Masa.” Masa is Mark’s given name and it is Japanese because Mark is half Japanese. 

But then, to tease him, Vee lowers his voice (Japanese men speak from low in the chest) and says: Masa-kun. Kind of the Japanese rephrase of the above. 

Hia = hyung/oppa (it may be used by a younger male or female but is only use on an older male) and specifically ties to Chinese heritage. 

Jie/jay = noona/unni (it may be used by a younger male or female but is only use on an older female) and specifically ties Chinese heritage. It has also been coopted by the queer community and may be translated as “sis” under those circumstances. More about hia here. 

Khun = -ssi or -san, and is a gender neutral formal address. It can be a title Khun + Name (first or last), an I/you pronoun, and also a proper name (ya, know, just for s&gs). Also in families that are more formal it is a mode of polite address for parents, Khun Maa for mother, Khun Paa for father. 

Vietnamese Honorifics

Vietnamese honorifics and modes of address are not my bailiwick but the amazing @squeakygeeky​ has been blogging a series around VBL linguistics and it’s queer struggles with pronouns because of bifurcation around gender. 

Oh boy was this a lot. And I am sorry to @timelesstoothfairy who originally asked this question, I don’t think they realized what a can of worms it opened up. 

Language, how is it SO MUCH FUN? 

I wrote in my Cherry Magic post the following: "There’s something I’m pondering about the BL trope of an individual having a queer revelation only after being approached with the opportunity. I want to pose this question to expert viewers of the genre, but what I’m wondering is whether or not the nations from which these shows hail, view this revelatory experience as one being on a/the sexuality spectrum, or if it’s expected to be a one-time episode of queerness that wouldn’t necessarily repeat itself in an individual’s life."

Do you have any thoughts on this? I really have no idea what, say, the general Japanese or Korean public think about spectrum expressions or identifications. I think I've read about this phenomenon in the past as being "queer only for you," but in the wider scope of BL and LGBT art, I do wonder if there's a beautiful conversation lurking out there about existing on the sexuality spectrum and whether or not there are shows out there that explore this. I guess KinnPorsche touched on it with Porsche as a bisexual lead?

(I also noted later in the Cherry Magic post that in the later volumes of the Old Fashion Cupcake manga, that Togawa "outs" Nozue as "not gay," which I think is a curious identification that relates to my question above.)

THANKS, if you have the time to offer your thoughts!

Collectivism & Identity Politics

I would posset that what your picking up on may be a fundamental difference between ask and guess cultures. Not to mention collectivism versus individualism. 

When you exist in a sphere where your identity is far more enmeshed with your social interactions, who you are as a person is, fundamentally, defined in part by who you are with and how you fit into the social fabric of your surroundings. Just think about how Thai pronouns change depending on who you are with, including the “I” pronoun. 

Think about the whole honorific system and how names (titles) change according to social status and power dynamics. I mean just think about that for a second, your OWN name, your very selfness, changes depending on who you are with. 

In Thailand it isn’t, “When a tree falls, does it make a sound?” it’s 

“What word for “I” do I use, when I am alone? 

Under those circumstances, would not attraction be more a factor of feedback and encounters rather than self reflection and epiphany?

It is not, in the end, a lack of self awareness, but the fact that the "self" is defined differently in different culture. Identity is defined differently. If the self is partly (or wholly) made up of social connections as well as the individual’s personal feelings, than all notions of self (including sexual identity) are informed by connections with others.

That got very cerebral but I hope it makes sense.

Why Linguistics is Important to Understanding BL

As to ownership of gayness, or queer spectrum identifiers/monikers, I talk about that (as an introduced concept) with regards to Thailand and the complexities around the word “gay” in this post. It applies somewhat to Japan as well, who also will use the English word. Korea uses the English word for a romantic “kiss.” Imagine what that says about the culture and its perception of kissing! 

A collectivist approach to identity by its nature may be both more fixed (if the group is focused on denial) or less so (if the group has the attitude of “who you’re with is who you are”) because the group is doing the primary defining of identity. 

So Togawa may identify as gay where Nozue does not (or considers himself bi/pan) or doesn't think ownership of an identity actually matters because ultimately the group will decide based on who he is partnered with. Because unlike in most Western parts of the world, the perception of others actually does genuinely inform your own identity.

Putting aside gay for you, a collectivist culture which is accepting of ranging sexualities is going to define you by who you are with and not really think or care about what label you wish to apply to yourself, because that is less relevant than your apparent network. (Although this happens to bi folks all the time, at least if asked or if given conversational leeway we can correct the assumption as required.) Until tha identity impacts the network at which point it may come to be perceived as a threat. (Which is often the case with families and homosexuality.) 

Much in the way in Thailand you can queer code verbally (particles), in the west we tend to queer code visually (how we dress, do our hair, etc...) in a collectivist culture queer coding is probably going to be through partnering, (but then lack of public intimacy will make that challenging). 

In these dramas until quite recently (and mostly Thailand) ownership of an identity like gay or bi or pan is extremely rare and when stated, did so using the English word. And because it's an English word it carries with it a ton of baggage, not the least of which is an individualistic aura.

(On a complete aside, conflicts over individualism v collectivism culture in Hong Kong and, probably eventually, Taiwan are the biggest barriers to reintegration/unity/occupation. But because mainland China is both collectivist and guess culture, they will never understand why violence, revolt, riots, protests, and identity defense is not just expected, but required of the younger generations at any attempted union/occupation.) 

Please don’t assume I have any personal skin in this game as to whether individualism or collectivism in better or worse. I don’t think it is wise to make a moral, ethical, or value judgement on culture. 

As someone who knows nothing about thai language, I found your linguistics explanation quite interesting and it got me wondering about how does the phi/nong work in details, like in the new dsn episode Leon said that Fiat's only a few months older than him and he only calls him P' because he started school yearly. Is it somehow similar to the korean yearly birthday situation?

Thai Honorifics Between Ages in BL & in Real Life 

Technically yes but also... no.

phi/nong/ai - honorifics & pronouns

So anyone born the year(s) before you, and/or in school a grade above you, within a few years (amorphous and somewhat generational) should be called P'+name. This is usually considered polite but not very formal. 

I would say it covers anyone who might be at high school or university with you, so about 4-5 years or so ahead and about 4-5 years or so behind, but it's super flexible. So actors might meet a much older but queer or super hip member of the press who will insist on phi, even though they are a decade or more senior. 

Phi/P’ and nong are gender neutral whether uses as an honorific (P’Name) or as a I/you pronoun phi. 

Very loosely phi when used alone as a noun = older sibling and nong when used alone = younger sibling. (Phi is similar but not the same as senpai in Japanese.) 

For pronouns, the older person will usually use the pronoun version phi to refer to themself as "I" but the younger boy will usually use their own name or pom for I (but rarely nong). 

Both boys will use the particle krab/kap. (Girls use kha.)

BL shows will occasionally mess with this but the actors in interviews are usually really careful about their phi/nongs & krap/khas. 

guu/mueng - I and you rude informal pronouns (used the most in BL), should NEVER be spoken by an outsider until said outsider fully understands the implications. 

The grown up version of all this is khun which is polite, formal, age, and gender neutral. Khun may be used as the you pronoun and as an honorific Khun + Name especially in the workplace. (Thai doesn’t really have a sunbae or sensei form of address.) Khun is usually translated as Mr/Mrs/Ms.

To confuse matters Khun is also a first name in Thailand and BL. 

To really confuse matters there are a number of other I/you pronouns (rao, chan, ter) which are (somewhat) gender neutral, definitely situational, and fall into various categories of rudeness, formality, and intimacy. 

Hia

Hia honorific or you pronoun. Hia functions the same as phi but is used only by those with Chinese ancestry, is masculine, and is slightly more household intimate than phi (more strongly associated with actual siblings/cousins/family members). In UWMA Team calls Win hia (and leaves off the P'Win - cheeky boy), but he uses phi and P'Dean for Dean. In Bad Buddy Pat’s sister uses hia with him.

It’s rare to hear hia used IRL on the actor circuit. But NuNew uses it with Zee (Cutie Pie) which is interesting. They have a soft but strict older/younger dynamic (Zee is almost a decade older then NuNew). And Zee has been through the wringer with a pair before so there’s a lot of subtext going on here. You can watch them (and hia) in action here. 

The feminine of hia is jay or je, which is also used in the queer community (usually by request) and often translated as sis, see this use in the flower shop sequence in Oxygen. 

Exceptions IRL:

OhmFluke. Fluke is older than Ohm but refers to him as P'Ohm and Ohm usually uses a nickname or affectionate diminutive (like nu) on Fluke. They decided this early on in their relationship as actors promoting Until We Meet Again. But it seems genuine to their dynamic and friendship. 

So clearly phi/nong has some flexibility of choice built into it socially.

PP & Billkin (I Told Sunset About You) opted for this kind of role reversal as well. 

SantaEarth. Earth clearly does not like how much older he is than Santa so they have negotiated some kind of complicated referral system between them that I still can't quite follow. But I find kinda fascinating to listen to. Thai is a language where you can actually avoid all pronouns most of the time and still clearly communicate. These two seem to do that a lot. 

Exceptions On Screen:

LeonPob. Leon and Pob tackle modes of address many times in Don’t Say No. In ep 10, over the phone Leon says if Pob uses just Pob (no phi) as the “I” pronoun when they are talking, Leon will melt. Pob does, right before hanging up. Then Pob does it again when he’s begging Leon later, and Leon just crumbles. Pob is older but play-acting linguistically younger and Leon (the seme) finds this unbearably CUTE. He also takes it as linguistic submission and permission to take their relationship to the next level. Which it kind of is. 

SibGene. They have an ongoing conversation about this in Lovely Writer. In general couples where the seme is younger than the uke and aggressive about it have linguistic negotiation as part of their relationship. I talk about it here, under age flipped dynamics. 

BohnDuen in My Engineer are abnormal too. I call them linguistic brats. 

Older Generations 

Anyone significantly older than you, like a generation or more above you, and in a casual environment like retail or food service is par/lung|arr AKA auntie/uncle by students (also your parent's friends, in laws and sept parents, friend's parents, and adult neighbors). See par used a lot in Lovely Writer. 

The reverse of this (adult to child) is gender neutral loo. 

Your faen's parents, if they approve the relationship, will likely invite the use of paa/maa. Formal register actually dictates khun maa/paa. 

But the older you are in life, the more you should be using khun instead of any of these. You can see khun grappled with as part of the plot of Lovely Writer and Day’s plot line in SOTUS S. There’s a rise in its use post 2020 as more Thai BLs move into the adult sphere and workplace environments (e.g. Manner of Death and Paint with Love). 

Nong does not work the same a phi

Anyone younger than you technically is a nong but most older kids will actually use no honorific for those younger than them but in the same general age bracket/generation/schooling system. Nong carries with it cute or diminutive connotations. A little like the difference between "my little brother" or "my baby brother" versus "my younger brother." Nong is more babyish. Thus it's more likely to be used across a much wider age gap, or with very specific cute personality types, or romantic entanglements. 

Nong in the third person is different again and almost entirely dependent on circumstances. 

Also nong is often used as the 3rd person pronoun for animals and pets. 

Unlike phi a boy nong will rarely use nong in place of the personal pronoun, he would use pom or his own name with his boyfriend. A girl will usually use chan. However, boys can/do also use chan as an informal I pronoun across age barriers, amongst intimates, and with female friends. Peach uses chan with YoonOh in Peach of Time. 

There is also the diminutive nu/noo. Nu is specifically for younger cuteness, it means mouse - หนู. (Nu has become hotly debated since KinnPosche and Cutie Pie so I talk about it here). 

There's a point where Bhon calls Duen "nong Duen" in My Engineer and clearly absolutely relishes the teasing nature of that, because it's a bit of an insult to Duen's dignity.

In Bad Buddy, Korn uses nong to tease Pat about flirting with Pran. It’s very very funny if you understand the implications of the term under the context of their friendship (equals and age mates) and Pat pretending to be jealous of Wai in order to cope with how much Wai is hurting his boyfriend. 

In Enchante Akk and Theo have a constant teasing back and forth using Nong Theo in particular (they are the same age, so this is a kind of insult flirting).

Dean's friends tease both Pharm and Dean by flirting with Pharm and calling him "nong Pharm" in front of Dean. Partly this is because Pharm is so cute and shy. Just think if they tried that with Team? He'd beat the shit out of them. And Win would hold his jacket while Team punched.

So there's a bit of affection baby-talk to nong as well, once romance is involved. (Much like we use the affectionate term "baby" as English-speaking couples.)

Rao & Ter & Gher

Both genders/ages also have access to (and use) the I pronoun rao (which is ALSO the pronoun for we, sounds like lao) and is... soft? Cutsie? Gentle. Also a tiny bit stiff. It can be used when you don’t want to use guu, or don’t know (or want to know) the age relationship in play. I would say it has an old fashioned tone, but it’s experiencing a resurgence in modern Thai amongst youngsters right now. Yok drops from pom to rao in Not Me only AFTER he and Dan kiss, which is very sweet and gentle. Pete in Love By Chance is a chronic rao user. 

I’ve talked about ter before = เธอ (ter/thoe). We are taught ter as she/her when learning Thai. That would be the formal and polite use but actually it’s rarely spoken that way. It’s not frozen register, it is used as she/her, but not often.

When ter shows up in Thai BLs it tends to show up as you, which application used to be frozen register. AKA originally it entered parlance only in songs/poems in particular (so like thee/thou in English). As you it’s not gender specific. When Tine sings his song to Sarawat at the end of Still 2gether he uses ter for you. In normal conversation, these two characters use mueng. In formal situations they tend to use each others names. But in song, Tine uses ter. It has an old fashioned romantic connotation when used in this way and is often paired with the I pronoun rao as a result.

One time we hear ter=you discussed in BL is He’s Coming to Me. Thun calls his mother ter over the phone, and Mes thinks Thun is talking to a lover. Imagine picking up the phone or running into someone and saying softly, “Hay, you.” It’s sweet. Thun uses ter with his mother instead of maa because, as his mother explains later, maa makes her feel old. This is a bit like giving one’s parent a pet name and is showcasing how close Thun is to her.

Park & Lee (LTR) use ter as their primary love language in My Secret Love, they expose themselves as being a relationship by using ter in public. 

When White is pretending to be Black with Black’s girlfriend in Not Me he struggles with pronouns and then opts for rao/ter, which turns out to be a mistake and nearly gives him away. (She ends up assuming it’s Black going off her and wanting to break up, presumably this means they actually used guu/mueng.)

Here’s a YT vid where a Thai language teacher talks about modern use of ter & rao.

There is also gher which is not polite, it’s not fully rude either, it’s certainly informal. It’s generally used between friends when mueng would be too rude or too much of an invitation. Anda and Bank, who are friends, but not intimates (although Bank would like them to be) use rao/gher with each other in Love Stage! This one is also very common within the queer community and between gay men/women or women/women friends. 

Nai & the Mafia 

So in 2022 Thai BLs seriously started moving setting outside of the school systems and thus added new pronouns (for us watchers) into the mix. KinnPorsche, Even Sun, and Unforgotten Night all use the pronoun nai (นาย) for you between men. Like many honorifics & pronouns, it's derived from a minor title of nobility. In the 19th century it was declared the official courtesy title for adult males - regarded as a direct translation of "Mr". 

It has several different uses today. 

As a title, it only appears before the real given name (not surname), in official/formal contexts, e.g. when writing down one's name on an exam paper, job application, or government form. If used with a nickname, it implies a bit of irony (like a teacher calling out a misbehaving student). 

As a pronoun, it's usually an informal second-person pronoun used with males of equal status. It's a decidedly non-rude word, so it'll be used among friends/classmates if they don't feel close enough to use gu/mueng (or if a person just doesn't use rude pronouns, like swear words there are people who don’t feel comfortable ever saying guu/mueng). 

Rao/nai as pronouns used to be the default mode of address on TV before gu/mueng became acceptable to broadcast in the 2010s. 

When used by females, nai is pretty much equivalent to males using ter with females - so an old fashioned but intimate and sweet, loving. 

On TV, the use of ter/nai is probably most often associated with straight dramas in the acquaintance phase of courting. 

Nai also has the meaning "boss" (similarly to the combined form เจ้านาย (jao nai/chao nai). If it's being used as a pronoun in a more formal or deferential context (like organized crime), it is used in this sense. 

Usage number 2 & 6 are the ones we see in Thai BL. All that said I understand as a tourist in Thailand, you will hear nai but not all that often. It’s fine to use khun instead/back, but good to know to identify nai. 

(I am indebted to my Thai linguistic spy, who is v secretive and shall remain nameless for this information. THANK YOU!!!!) 

The lost Ai (Ee)

Ai'+ name was technically once supposed to be used between male age mates but it is usually dropped in BL and on the interview circuit. Seems to have become frozen in this form. 

In BL it will be applied with a long drawn out tone when insult is required between close friends. Ae and Pond do it a lot in Love By Chance. In which case Ai'+name is a little like an affectionate "my asshole friend here." The opposite is also true, Ai can be softened and applied for affection. 

Fiat uses Ai’Leeooo with Leo all the time in Don’t Say No. It’s a kind of bratty affection coming from him. Leo, on the other hand, only uses Ai’Fiat when he is annoyed af with his boy. 

Informality between same year/age mates (or from older to younger) can be better tracked through the use of no honorifics and the application of guu/mueng pronouns for I/you and the use of wa particle instead of krap/kha. These are all gender neutral. But you will rarely if ever hear these used on the promo circuit between actors. They are quite rude.

Khun

Once you're out and about in the workplace khun is pretty much required, unless you're invited by your older workplace mates to revert back to phi. This can be made immediately clear to you because that workmate will just use phi in conversation when referring to themself, and that means you have been invited to call them phi instead of khun - it's a gesture of friendship. You can see this in SOTUS S.

Here’s Perth talking about the basics of all of this. 

Impolite or Flexible Particles:

There are no hard and fast rules here except that a tourist should use kha/krap particles and khun honorifics.

Here's a quick guide to train your ear, these will come at the end of sentences. 

Formal polite particles:

krap used by male identified individuals

... but kap! = curt slightly more informal

... but krrap rolling the “r” = sarcasm 

kha/ka used female identified individuals

.... but very rarely a drawn out sarcastic kaaa is a bit tough/agro/bad, the hardness of the “k” noise makes a difference 

... sometimes softened to be more like ha, and often sarcastic (or getting a little queer) 

si for imperatives and mandates (orders)

na to soften, question, and plead

Krap/kha can also be used alone as verbal acknowledgement agreement especially to an adult or someone older than you. However, when a boy uses solo krap with his boyfriend or someone younger than him or an age-mate it’s almost always sarcastic. Like “yessir” or “sure, dude.”

Informal but still somewhat polite particles:

kha used by third gender identified individuals

la for mild entreaty

sa for forced encouragement

di for imperatives and mandates (orders)

Informal household intimate particles

ja used with very close friends/family and by the queer community, friendly and informal

kha used by a male identified person for certain VERY specific reasons

ha as used with lovers and close family members, intimate and informal

Rude particles, to be used ONLY with piers after an established relationship

gu/mueng for I/you pronouns (not particles, but it's important to know this as BL uses this all the time but travelers NEVER SHOULD)

wa for questions 

THERE ARE A TON OF EXCEPTIONS. 

Kha particle as used by a man. A hard kha may be used by (or occasionally with) members of the queer community by those who identify as male and would formally use krap. A soft kha may be used by a man talking to a much younger girl (Pete, who ALWAYS uses krap, uses kha with Ae's niece in Love By Chance because he is being very gentle/soft with her). A male player picking up women in a bar may also use kha.  

Ja & ha particles. Queer and gay-identified performers and Thai third gender (kathoey) have more flexibility with their particles even in formal situations (if they want) and may use ja or ha instead of krap/kha. Ja seems slightly more associated with femininity and ha with neutral or masculinity. Most kathoey use kha (hard and soft) and ja particles. Most gay men (masculine identified) use krap except when talking to their queer community, then they will pick up kha, ja, or ha.

More on ha. Outside of queer ha is used amongst family members (and intimates) with loads of affection attached. (Phun uses ha with his adored younger sister in Love Sick.) Because it is a little cutsie it can also be used between lovers in a teasing capacity. It’s the kind of thing we might get in a certain jocular LTR on screen. (Honestly, I could see MaxTul popping in a ha or two IRL just to fuck with us.) Bad Buddy trots out a ha when wrestling in the final episode. I have rarely heart actors use it on circuit. 

ha slides into and gets confused easily (sometimes intentionally by the speaker) with the soft kha. This shizz is v complicated. 

June in Love Area 2 is one of my all time favorite linguistic characters. June is agender INCLUDING linguistically (I use agender intentionally since we can’t tell if the character is butch, FTM, gender fluid, or gender neutral). I legitimately have been told this was not possible in the Thai language. June uses the ha particle only, and sparingly, and has never gendered self or been gendered by others as part of the narrative. June is linguistically curt and a bit rude as a result, but the surrounding characters never seem very offended by this, even older generations. It is FASCINATING.

I also have a post on Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity and how touch moves between registers and into ha to flirt with Daisy. 

There are, so far as I can gather, no polite but queer particles. So, in a way, queerness exists within low register in Thailand... which implies queerness only exists amongst peers & intimates. There’s a goddamn cultural anth + linguist’s PhD wrapped up in this one, so I’m backing away slowly. 

What I’m talking about here has to do with registers. This all does actually. All about Thai registers here. 

That's not kha, that's ha.

Does that clear it up?

So I talk about when ha is used (and also when kha is used by a male identified person) in this post.

Ja & ha particles. Queer and gay-identified performers and Thai third gender have more flexibility with their particles even in formal situations (if they want) and may use ja or ha instead of krap. Ja seems to be used more by those identifying with expressed femininity and ha with masculinity or true neutral, but it’s definitely a spectrum and there so little rep in BL I can’t be sure. 

More on ha. Outside of queer ha is used amongst family members (and intimates) with loads of affection attached. (Phun uses ha with his adored younger sister in Love Sick.) Because it is a little cutsie it can also be used between lovers in a teasing capacity. It’s the kind of thing we might get in a certain jocular LTR on screen. (Honestly, I could see MaxTul popping in a ha or two just to fuck with us IRL.)

Kha particle as used by a man. A hard kha may be used by (or occasionally with) members of the queer community by those who identify as male and would formally use krap. A soft kha may be used by a man talking to a much younger girl (Pete, who ALWAYS uses krap, uses kha with Ae’s niece in Love By Chance because he is being very gentle/soft with her). A male player picking up women in a bar may also use kha.

But yeah, in that scene in BB it’s ha.

I think I actually said in my long Bad Buddy analysis blog thingy that we should def be looking out for the ha drop with these two. Because of course they were always gonna go there.

Thank you for spotting it for me! 'Cause I missed that bit.

(On a complete aside, because this character is making my world right now: June in Love Area 2 is agender and only ever uses ha.)

Good question and honestly, I haven't been playing close attention. They've been using guu/mueng all along, haven't they? Sorry, I'm so used to it by now in the university stuff I just assume.

They do do the "Krap, Khun Pat," or similar.

Which is is a rough verbal equivalent to a sarcastic salute and a "yessir." So yeah, it's teasing.

Krap with a drawn out rolled rrr between piers is almost always a teasing sarcasm formality. Although push it with someone older than you, and it can come off as insolence or insult.

Pat & Pran Honorifics & Pronouns

Khun is always sarcastic when used between piers, age difference or no. (For anyone intersted, khun doesn't have a direct translation but it's basically formal speak like Mr/Mz without gender attached to it.)

But I haven't heard either Pat or Pran use P'name on the other, that would be VERY odd and I probably would have perked up and noticed. I can't thank of any incident in a BL where same age characters use phi, even in jest or affection. Khun, yes, phi, no. (Phi doesn't work like oppa.) 

Pronoun-wise, Pat & Pran are (intentionally, for story reasons) the same age so the most formal they might go with each other in a lovey dovey manner would be rao, but that would be extremely odd for their characters.

Pat & Pran Polite Particles 

If you want to watch out for coded sweetness going forward, we shall see if they drop the wa for ha. I think that's going to be the way they particle out affection, if they do it at all (probably Pat to Pran). Maybe even ja, but I think ha more likely given the fact they grew up together. (Ha is for household intimates, like siblings, it's very sweet and gentle.)

I'll rewatch ep 5 sometimes this week (maybe a few others) and also keep an eye open in ep 6, let you know if I spot anything unusual in the episode recap on Friday? Sound good?

on to the question:

i just finished y-destiny (it ain't amazing, i won't lie, but kaengputh were my favorites) and i just wanted to ask about that scene in ep 15 where team is like linguistically feminine with mon. is that like a d/s thing or...?

(also i love kaeng and puth's development from flirty to half-committed fwb to fully committed fwb to That Couple™ to gay cat dads...livin the queer experience for real for real)

In the presentation part? I think that's what you're referring to?

Team is using ha.

That’s actually not the feminine, kha. That is a gender neutral household intimate particle.

I talk about the nuances between ha/ja & kha (when used by a male) in this blog post. Ha can be coopted for queer use but in this scene I think it's falling under this definition: