people will really think that thk not helping ghost up at the abyss when it was an Actual Baby following their father's orders and quite possibly thinking ghost would just pull themself up like it did is unforgivable, but say nothing about people treating the god-queen of an empire who treats her children like disposable tools like she's some paragon of motherly love and a tragic figure. she doesn't even do anything to help hornet, her stepdaughter who she genuinely cares about (as much as she cares about any mortal)
wl is neither good nor nice, she's just good with words
no literally!!! like you're an objective viewer (with narrative bias toward the vessels seeing as they're. you know. one that you play as and are the victims of their 'parents') but you still fall directly into her act??? she is meant to be someone who paints herself as the helpless victim to what's become of hallownest, all the while refusing to enact any change in herself for who knows how long. how she voices and reasons her own twisted viewpoint as to how she is only responsible for the creation and not any of the fallout is what makes her an interesting character. i've said this before, but it really is a disservice to her entire character to disregard her skillful language and how she frames events (or the absence of) to invoke a specific response, when there are (at least, references to) incidents contradicting what she says or which adds more context to her story and literally anything else she could've done instead of resigning herself to a hapless victim to what she very much had a hand in
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i'm wondering if monomon decided to start working with hallownest as more of a strategic move. if she's working with hallownest, but her loyalties are still with unn, it might help decrease the pressure on the mosskin, since now the pale beings want to keep monomon working with them. but by working with hallownest and decreasing the pressure on the mosskin, that gives unn more time to recover from the losses of her land, (both the land given to the oumas and the land stolen by the white lady), before hallownest goes to try and fully colonize greenpath
she might also have agreed to work with hallownest to try and increase the resources that the average bug has access to. specifically, information about the world outside of hallownest and hallownest itself that isn't full of propaganda about how great hallownest and the pale beings are
YESSS ROWAN <3 <3 <3 ur thoughts . rotates them.
that's a similar hc i share!!! especially due to her position between greenpath and the mushroom's land - what hallownest claims and walks through w/o issue - and what unn retains, she is able to act as a sort of pressure? making it more difficult for people to reach further in greenpath, as they'd be surrounded by people who act in unn's alliance and have the risk of cutting off ties with monomon herself who is clearly an intelligent (and fairly powerful imo) being. not only would it harm hallownest, but increases risk of any retaliation and for what? something the moss knights will likely be able to steal back within a few years, and that's IF they relinquish it? for hallownest, it's not worth it to proceed further here, you've already gained an alliance that is favorable for you.
++ and then politically, monomon, with her honored position, is allowed to speak in unn's defense. while she ultimately doesn't have much say if the pale beings are ever certain they want to proceed with an idea, she does have enough influence that she can get at least some hallownest citizens to be 'hm. fucked up' at it, and perhaps not engage with whatever plan they're sent at all - or at least, be more lenient toward the mosskin regarding it.
the note about monomon taking advantage of her position between hallownest, unn's land, and presumably deepnest* i hadn't really considered in-depth regarding the archive, but it's good on her to preserve these other group's cultures and still let hallownest learn of it, especially if her archive (or, at least the information) was established prior to hallownest, you'd get to see how these societies were in their prime. i wonder if it was this access which drew moths especially to her archive, those who wanted to relearn what was left of their people after hallownest's... whole assimilation.
(* as connected to "queen's gardens"; thinking abt it now, at one point, she may have had easier access to deepnest prior to wl's claim, if she were there... an aside - i am just thinking over at how much more would need to be updated once monomon earns herrah's trust)
this just makes me wonder more how the focus of the archive and sanctum differed. while the sanctum is firmly established as a place for faithful scholars to the king, monomon (under the assumption she's merely allied with hallownest rather than a certain part of it) is quite clearly not expected as a part of hallownest and while she may respect pk's / wl's word as another leader and higher god, she will not praise them on that alone. under this whole idea, it's safe to say she isn't so focused on hallownest's own improvement. but of course the pale beings' values differ, and then you have to ask just how much of this would she be allowed to share with the others she works alongside? - specifically the mosskin in this case... bc i'm sure hallownest would like to retain their status as some grand force.
-> i'm really too tired to try to figure more specifics of that out, but i do think it'd be interesting if she did instead push more of a fair alliance with the others that hallownest was cheating materials from (specifically mosskin in this case, although perhaps she was able to help moths in some ways? depending on how many moths were within her archive and willing to step up. the mantises meanwhile can likely fend for their own share, but the offer remains for them) where some ideas were transferred to her archive for her to look over for any adjustments that they weren't aware of that were only really seen in other communities. allowing her to trade geo for the others' time in only improving [item/s]. and then of course if it's her own, while hallownest is more industrial and has an easier time with producing these, she wouldn't hide anything while sharing w those she is continuously requesting help from you know?
++ that does make me really :'| though if she, or another in the archive, discovered the properties of crystals and unintentionally led into the whole... taking the peak away from moths for their own purposes. it'd probably first been trying to keep it quiet, or at least sort something out while still keeping the place intact, only for the more corrupt just seeing this as an opportunity and letting it spiral out of control to the point where becoming a miner was just such a common job for the working class with hardly any acknowledgement to the moths who clearly once held the crystals and area itself in high regard... man. she was definitely more careful afterward of course but yikes
oh man okay. the moths should never have felt pressure to abandon being pacifistic, especially because it's implied it was part of their culture to not (personally) inflict violence upon a living being.
while it's true there is a lot to explore creating a moth oc that chose to take up weaponry despite their culture / beliefs - a lot of moth ocs (and interps of markoth) i've found with this feel very... shallow in their reasoning being that they aren't as "cowardly" or "weak" as other moths. and really just cast a lot of shade on the moths as a whole. there is a lot to go into where you're facing scrutiny for going against a tradition, but this just? isn't the way. a narrative framing 'moth training with weapons' on a pedestal ultimately puts more emphasis on breaking from some 'lowly, irrational tradition' rather than accepting that this character can contain multitudes! while they may take on weaponry for whatever reason, they have figured out a way to justify it (likely believing protection held more value than what would ultimately be idleness) and they still follow and value other traditional moth faiths. it doesn't take much to just mention that they still respect others who do not take on weaponry, so long as the other is respectful in turn. you don't need to call every moth who didn't fight a 'fool'
it is canon and does make sense that the moths were overruled by hallownest because of the lack of people trained to fight, HOWEVER it does Not negate the value in the moths traditional* beliefs. it was hallownest who drew their weapons first. the moths created a society which functioned well and, in hand with their system, valued pacifism, and it's honestly unnerving seeing people pretend they were just useless prior to hallownest because of this, when it's part of the reason it was so easy for hallownest to steal them. this meant a lot to them and it was taken advantage of by hallownest. fans who erase this part of the moths' beliefs really need to consider how to keep such an important aspect without completely berating it and tearing it apart as a way to somehow shift blame onto the moths for not being prepared for having everything taken from them and from there being assimilated into hallownest
*traditional beliefs because moth culture, as carefully as some tried to keep it, obviously changed after hallownest imposed itself upon them
what about the Collector for the comfort/discomfort characters?
comfort!!! it is just Vibing and i love that for it... i love art where it's just the collector thinking its unofficially adopted the grubs bc! yeah it's all good intentions. just a fun dude w a fun battle - i love it a lot!
ghost responds to jumpscares by freezing (like they do in most of the boss entrances) for a split second and then reflexively using their nail. hornet probably just punches things on reflex (since she's spent enough time being around people as a kid that she's learned to punch first and then needle afterwards if necessary, since a fist is less deadly than a needle but does buy you a moment to grab said needle if the situation requires. she's also the kind of person who would work very hard to not lose her "do not automatically stab people" manners to years spent guarding husk filled Hallownest)
(ghost and hornet are "fight" response people in comparison to their sibling's "freeze" response)
YEAH! I had a headcanon about Ghost freezing because theyāre scared or overstimulated. Quirrel responds to be startled by jumping probably. Maybe Tiso too. If you do actually manage to startle Tiso heāll be gone in moments.
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okay her flower quest SUCKS (i am biased.) but i do love her dramatic tragic story even if it really hurts me, a lesbian, to see the main sapphic couple thatās present is just. not allowed that happy ending. tho. you know. hk is really just about that loss in general. i think itās interesting to see how closed off the mantises were to hallownestās people and i have had fun figuring out how the mantises work thru these two and how they were initially able to meet despite this stuff set against them.
speaking of! i think, before hallownestās fall, she was stationed with the archive (or the canyon in general actually)!!! she and monomon were fairly close, but monomon didnāt especially need someone to guard the archive bc there was no Real danger other than, possibly, the mantises. so zeāmer spent most of her time around [the fungal wastes] instead watching after this, with enough distance from the tribe to keep them from getting apprehensive thinking that tpk was purposefully monitoring them.
zeāmerās very. aloof? in her own way. quiet and content with being on her own unless you get her started on something, or she sees some reason to add onto what anotherās said or done. sheāll jump into conversations with something seemingly completely off topic only to somehow wrap around and make it relevant. sheās very. Wordy, especially with the other four who just let her go on as she pleases (especially when sheās talking abt her home! they think itās interesting and she loves sharing stories abt it and showing some of her physical items from those lands, though she is very cautious abt who can see them and will almost never let another even touch them. (except for her cloak which is. bound to be touched and broken into w her being a knight and all.)
iāve mentioned this before, but one of the main reasons she loves being with dryya is because theyāre both really upfront people. even if zeāmer rambles on before getting to her point, she always does have a point to what sheās saying and doesnāt really Do mindless chatter unless itās just to learn abt another person, but even then like.. thatās her task in talking to them, to Learn about them. sheās used to interactions beingĀ a very technical thing and doesnāt really get ācommon senseā among the others in hallownest. also, bc i think itās funny, hegemol has given up on asking her to knock when she comes to his house in the city by now. she just barges in like theĀ āMOM HOLY FUCKā image whenever she wants to talk to him.
i would go into her relationships w the other knights but Sleeby. feel free to dm me later on discord tho bc hogh . Thoughts.
i will say that, even tho this can change depending on the situation, this is generally how close she is to each knight: dryya, hegemol, isma, ogrim
Hegemol thoughts? I know you headcanon him and Lurien as adopted family and that is Top Tier
THANK U i just. theyāre both important figures in the city and it makes sense that theyād be close w each other imo?? (also this got long oops.)
okay! so! hegemol was the firstĀ āwatcherā (technically) as the guardian of the heart! he was fine, at first, and really did try to maintain this position on his own from tpkās request, but he just. simply does Not have the mind for all the social stuff (he gets sensory overload when thereās a lot of noise, esp targeted at him). because of this, he had set up the overseers like victor (soul master; he was already an important religious figure and supposedly an honest person who spoke for the citizens) and emilitia (which was a mistake, he realized, but she was already finding a strong hold there with nobles defending her because she represented their wants over those beneath them and he did Not want to bother tpk abt this w/o genuine reason for emilitiaās faults) and four other people who arenāt canon characters. anyway, when the overseers were established, hegemol was content with his position as helping protect the capital, it was what he was recognized for and good at. he was the one who set up defenses against the mantises when tpk had yet to find some peace with them, and also the reason the city didnāt completely fall to āthe battle of the blackwyrm.ā
speaking of that battle! that ended up bringing around some much needed change even if it was a fucked up event. lurien joined hallownest soon after this, was endorsed by tpk, and hegemol was like oh thank g-d. he disbanded the overseers and helped the city begin to find new roots. he wasnāt oblivious to the corruption (and other issues) w the people heād given these positions to, but they ended up having more power in his city than he did (especially victor, who knew how to play both sides disturbingly well) due to both their reputation and just. the fact there were more of them and unless they outright tried to break him from the city there was no real reason to bring tpk into the mix.
when lurien was established as the watcher, hegemol was thankful to realize there was moreĀ equal ground. even though he still left most social issues up to lurien, he no longer felt completely closed out of what was happening in the city, which was his previous issue with the others among their general shitty selfishness. both lurien and hegemol had to report to a Literal God so that kind of helped keep them in check, along with the fact they were both raised in relatively poor conditions and werenāt spoiled like most of the overseers were, they knew (even vaguely) how to help improve living conditions all around and lurien helped create that for the capital. obviously itās really difficult to undo everything the overseers put into place, but lurien steadily worked toward helping the capital as a whole heal and rise to its best self. this is what earns him his respect from his servants and other commonfolk, along with his just overall kind nature, similar to victorās but a lot less concieted.
lurien and hegemol grow close, heās sort of an honorary knight at this point with how close he is to tpk and how often he ends up meeting with a few of them in hegemolās stead. hegemol is someone who is almost always, unless itās by tpk or wlās specific request, in the city. heās a reliable source, and this is why when the knights usually meet, itās either in hallownestās heart or the palace, accommodating for hegemol. he doesnāt enjoy leaving the city because at this point heās been there for like... centuries. he feels awful and nervous when he leaves it. of course he knows when to take breaks, and he knows he can trust the other guards placed around the capital to keep things safe, but itās the idea of leaving it entirely that really knocks him off-guard? he needs to be there in the case of emergencies, he doesnāt feel right otherwise.
even though he was mourning lurien once the dreamers began, once again bearing the weight of the entire city alone, he really just. broke when the infection returned. he was overwhelmed. he returned the overseers that still lived and moved on to find the king first, only to be dismissed with some empty assumption the king would somehow fix things again even after this initial plan. hegemol was close enough to both ogrim and dryya to hear of their falling out, he knew zeāmer, ogrim, and isma were trying to stay in hallownest even as the infection rose again, but he ended up doing what zeāmer did and going to an outer area of the kingdom, away from the palace. he alternated between dirtmouth and the crossroads, just. monitoring the hell that went down and waiting for nothing.
hegemolās been around the kingdom since its beginnings. even with the kingās blessing, he ages. heās the oldest of the group and thatās including dryya, who was the first realĀ āknight of hallownestā. tpk keeps ogrim for his endearing loyalty, but he placed hegemol in charge of keeping his Heart. hegemol, despite all heās seen, has known the kingdom to bounce back from whatever disaster struck, whether it be a person like isma or lurien, or hallownest as a whole recovering from its losses. heās never seen something like this ravage the kingdom so thoroughly, something even its rulers gave up on saving. heās old and heās tired. even before all this additional stress crashed on him, ever since lurien knew him, hegemolās been one who needs a nap in the middle of the day to function. he wants an escape, and he needs to rest. it is in one of these moments that the maggot finds him and kills him.
or at least thatās how it goes down in my canon. i realize now this. probably wasnāt what you were looking for but this is what came to mind bghjmgsgj
here r some interactions w the others of four!:
hegemolās the closest to ogrim! ogrimās the one that finds the most time to get away out of the five and he ends up just helping hegemol communicate with the others despite staying in the city for the most part. hegemol enjoys ogrimās presence and thinks his laugh is nice to hear, and just. overall his interactions with him are comforting and sweet. ogrimās always so easily captured by such small fascinations and hegemol wishes he could return to that. he knows, rationally, that being older is no reason to lose the joy in small things (ogrimās at Least half his age) but he gets really. self conscious about that? he feels itās ridiculous. but ogrim really brightens his day.
both isma and lurien r the ones that encouraged hegemol to return to crafting things (that arenāt food)! lurien with painting and isma offered to teach him how to start sewing stuff together so he could work on that in his breaks. ismaās been really sweet and shares a lot of the qualities hegemol likes abt ogrim and he just! he thinks itās sweet of them. he can also share some moments w isma about growing up in places that were basically carved into a home (hers was the hive and his was a. huge tree. heās a cicada. this is canon (/j. in my canon he is tho)) with some sort of cultural meaning to it and that sort of... disconnect that comes from leaving it, even though for isma her home is still right there. theyāre solidarity.
hegemol was probably the second one that zeāmer told about being in a relationship with her mantis lover, alongside ogrim. even though zeāmer brings her own tales and can clearly defend her perspective, she Does look to hegemol (and dryya) when sheās second-guessing herself. dryya tends to give a clear-cut answer while hegemol takes the time to understand her values and also weigh how hallownestās people would usually react to the situation she deals with. zeāmerās not only unfamiliar with hallownest even now, but she struggles with social cues in general! and bugs around here have several more courtesy rules (zeāmer is really close to dryya because of this. neither of them dance around subjects, even if zeāmer uses a bit more detail and is. just a little bit dramatic.)
hegemol and dryya have spent so long around each other theyāre basically like. siblings? in a way? theyāre sort of indifferent to each other, and yeah they donāt talk as much anymore, but when they get a conversation going they have fun with it and they generally enjoy just vibing in the same space with each other, even if theyāre doing their own things. they know they have the other to rely on when it calls for it, even though they still prefer to go to others they chose to be close to for their issues rather than defaulting to the one theyāre familiar with from years together. hegemol and zeāmer were the only ones who knew where dryya went after the infectionās return, though she was sure ogrim could guess where she went.
