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could you talk about some of the things gk chesterton has said that you really disagree with?
Aside from the racism and ignorance about other religions, my main problem with Chesterton is his tendency to reject systemic evil as a source of ills in favor of personal evil (e.g. “Dear Sirs, I am”) and to place an emphasis on assuming traditions are benevolent unless otherwise demonstrated (which is closely tied to his frequent rejection of systemic evil, imo).
But I’ve mostly read his fiction, so I’m not sure if these problems are addressed more adequately in his nonfiction.
I understand why it's a classic, basically birthing the slasher genre, but with the exception of a few very well done scenes, the whole thing feels very contrived, not to mention the film being noticeably worse to women than many others. It inspired movies that were better than it itself, in my opinion.
Could you explain what the fuck evangelicals are talking about when they say that Hell is something vague like "separation from god"? Also, where does the idea that people choose to go (and stay) there come from?
I want to credit/blame CS Lewis’ The Great Divorce, but I’m fairly sure he’s not the one who originated Hell as separation from God and the door being locked on the inside so much as popularized it. I also haven’t read it, so I can’t speak authoritatively about it.
Putting the rest under the cut due to length
What it means, essentially, is that by rejecting God, the source of everything good, non-believers reject everything good, and thus condemn themselves to an eternity of misery, cut off from everything that makes existence bearable. Whether or not they can choose to leave varies, but the general opinion seems to be that this doesn’t matter, even given the option to leave, the damned wouldn’t, in this model they’ve curved inward so much that they no longer even realize they desire something other than misery. The idea is explored in Ted Chiang’s excellent short story Hell Is the Absence of God.
The idea that separation is among the torments of Hell, indeed the chief torment, is not unique to people who don’t believe that Hell is eternal conscious torment (although I feel Chiang is pretty successful at problematizing the idea that absence, given its implications isn’t eternal conscious torment). Fr John Furniss’ 1855 children’s book, The Sight of Hell, has a harrowing description of what he sees as the greatest torment of Hell, described only after a long litany of the lesser torments:
Itis easy to understand the other pains of hell, because there arepains like them on earth. But it is difficult to understand the painof loss, because there is nothing like it on earth. You must knowthat when a soul has been condemned to hell at the judgment-seat, Godlets it see for a moment something of what it has lost. It sees theimmense happiness it would have had in heaven with God and his angelsand saints. And now it sees that all this blessed happiness is lost -- lost by its own fault, lost for ever, lost without hope! Listen tothe painful cry of a child which has lost its mother! Listened to thewailings of the people in Ireland when their sister is leaving themto go to America, and perhaps they will never see her any more. Thenyou may think what a wailing there will be when a soul hears thesewords from God: "Depart from me for ever." Listen to theshriek of that mad man shut up in the mad-house; he lost his money,his brain turned, and he became mad. Then you may think how the soulwill shriek when it sees that it has lost heaven. Listen to thatsplash in the river. A man threw himself off the bridge; as he wasfalling down into the river, he roared out his: "I can beardeath, but I cannot bear this loss." Listen to the tremendousroar at the judgment-seat. The soul dashes itself from thejudgment-seat down into the flames of hell, roaring out: "I canbear the fire of hell, but I cannot bear the loss of heaven after Ihave seen what heaven is." Listen again to the devils in hell,and you will hear them crying out: "I would gladly burn here formillions of years if I could only see God for one moment."
Could you talk a bit about American evangelicals' obsession with The Early Church™? They like to think they're emulating it, but even though I don't know a lot about church history I get the impression that they're full of shit.
So the thing about the Early Church is that there were hundreds of them. In the first few centuries of its history Christianity was so diverse that the modern churches look almost uniform.
But even if you limit yourself to the First Century churches that can be somewhat legitimately traced to modern churches, they were nothing like evangelicalism. For one thing, they didn’t have a Bible. They had the Septuagint, but it had more books than the modern Protestant Old Testament, and they had a bunch of epistles, gospels, and other documents in circulation, but they weren’t seen as scriptural (I’ve often wondered how mortified Paul would be if he knew that people were reading his letters as though they were written for billions of people living two thousand years after his death--and not just because there wasn’t supposed to be a two thousand years later).
Another thing, as far as we can tell, they accepted women as deacons, preachers, and prophets. Paul certainly does. And they probably celebrated the Lord’s Supper every week. And most went to the synagogue on Saturdays. And if we believe Luke-Acts, some of the earliest ones may have held all goods in common.
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What are your thoughts on C.S. Lewis—particularly his apologetic writings? Evangelicals think he was brilliant, but personally I've always felt like his rhetorical/writing ability made his arguments seem stronger than they really were.
CS Lewis is a mixed bag. Sometimes he says things that are beautiful and profound, sometimes he says things that sound profound until you think about them, sometimes he says things that are inane, and sometimes he writes “The Shoddy Lands.”
By and large I think Lewis is overrated, but at the same time, his main supporters (evangelicals) don’t understand him at all and so when they report on him he ends up coming off worse than he actually was.
Ana Mardoll’s been doing a really good deconstruction of The Chronicles of Narnia that I highly recommend. I’m tempted to do one of The Great Divorce or Mere Christianity at some point, but haven’t gotten around to it.
oh my god please go into more detail about why you don't like kierkegaard my brother and i argue about religion a lot and kierkegaard is his favorite philosopher lol
I’ve only read two of his books: The Sickness Unto Death and Fear and Trembling. In both, Kierkegaard basically sees the human condition as one of fundamental isolation: there is the individual human, there is God, and the human is sundered from God and must, by faith, trust in God’s awesome power to bring the human out of isolation and to God. Other people? Well, they exist. Mostly they suck at being Christians. We should generally act ethically towards them, but our orientation should be entirely focused on God, not other people. So yeah, in those two works at least (and Kierkegaard’s actual views are hard to pin down because he liked to get into alternative mindsets), Kierkegaard’s view of the human condition is horrific.
But
What Kierkegaard has to say is important and deserves consideration. He cannot be dismissed. His opinions are well-argued and appeal to the sense of isolation and brokenness I think most of us encounter at least some of the time in our lives. His solutions to those problems are awful, but his recognition of them is better articulated than almost anywhere else; even if you disagree with his interpretation of how they manifest, you have to recognize that they come from a willingness to face existential dread that almost no one else has. Kierkegaard is courageous in a way that few philosophers are.
I want to read his other books, and I probably will once I’m in a position to think like an academic again. I suspect I will once more hate his opinions and hope never to meet him on the street. But I also suspect that I will see what he has to say as valuable, even if only because I need to think carefully to understand and articulate why he is wrong.