#lizzierh

@sixth-light replied to your post “hi! I just went on to Elinor Tyrell’s asoiaf page and it describes her as being Margaery’s ‘pillow friend’...”

IIRC, sharing beds with same-gender companions was very common and unexceptionable back when beds were very expensive items of furniture, at all levels of society.

That is true, for both men and women, not just because of expensive beds and housing, but also prior to the guaranteed warmth of central heating. (Which isn’t to say that some of these bed-sharers didn’t have same-sex relationships, but nevertheless most were platonic.)

@lizzierh replied:

Here, I am influenced by my studying of Much Ado about Nothing where Beatrice and Hero (cousins) are referred to as “bedfellows”. (4.1). Here, Hero is the lord’s daughter and Beatrice the more minor cousin whose prominence as her uncle’s ward is increased through her relationship and closeness to her cousin.

Elinor, by being close in age with Margaery, can use this closeness to make a match at court in exchange for providing evidence of her lady’s chastity in the event of scandal, something both Elinor and Beatrice cannot do in the end.

Ah yes, and GRRM is often inspired by Shakespeare’s depictions of history more than by history itself, so this is very probably a deliberate parallel. “Bedfellow” is frequently used in Shakespeare (notably “strange bedfellows”, from The Tempest)... does it predate him? Yes, my OED dates it to 1478.

But did ladies-in-waiting ever serve as bedfellows? I was under the impression that they often shared a room with their mistress, but not a bed... but a quick google check tells me that Mary, Queen of Scots, had a cousin and lady-in-waiting, Mary Fleming, who she took as her bedfellow when she was too nervous to sleep alone. Queen Elizabeth I also had several bedfellows:

In her Bedchamber, Elizabeth could de-robe, take off her make-up and withdraw from the hustle-bustle of the court. Here she was waited upon by her ladies who had the most intimate access to the Queen, attending on her as she dressed, ate, bathed, toileted and slept. Elizabeth was never alone and in or adjacent to her bed she also had a sleeping companion – a trusted bedfellow – with whom she might gossip, share dreams and nightmares, and seek counsel. [...] Sharing a bed with a sleeping companion of the same sex was a common practice at the time, providing warmth, comfort and security; but being the Queen of England's bedfellow was a position of the greatest trust, bringing close and intimate access to Elizabeth.

--Elizabeth's Bedfellows: An Intimate History of the Queen's Court

That’s the gist of it, yes.

As of Rocks and Water, Leia is pretty sure that Ekkreth/Vader is Anakin Skywalker, Luke’s father. But since she can’t be certain, she’s not saying anything to Luke, because if it turns out she’s wrong, then she’ll have asked him to trust and even perhaps care for the man who killed his father. (There’s also the issue of Luke’s lack of security clearance, but I think that if Leia knew for sure she would overlook the security issue in this specific case.)

So Luke still believes what Obi-Wan told him: that an evil Jedi named Darth Vader betrayed and murdered his father.

And Leia has no reason to connect herself to either Ekkreth or Luke as a blood relative (though she does think of both of them as her chosen family).

Do you have/know any stories with this sort of low-key Padme/Anakin matrilineal stuff?

Sadly, no. The fandom continues to disappoint me. :(

Thank you!

I don't have a fancast in mind, tbh, but only because I just generally don't know actors. Like, I don't think I could name a single child actor off the top of my head?

Rhaella would have to be forty as Rhaegar was 25 when he died.

Um, ok, I wrote that post before TWOIAF came out and helped clarify dates and details (especially re Rhaella's probable feelings about pregnancy), but no? Doubly no?

Rhaegar was born in 259 at the Tragedy at Summerhall. He died in 283 at the Battle of the Trident. That makes him 24 at most. But his age at his death has nothing to do with his mother's age, there's another method to calculate that.

Aerys was 18 when he became king in 262, which means he was born in 244. Per TWOIAF, Rhaella was younger than him, which means she was born in 245 at the earliest. She died in 284 (approximately 9 months after the Battle of the Trident), at age 39 or younger.

Casterly Rock compared to other cities (similar to the San Francisco picture) ?

...hmmm, I could possibly do that.... The Casterly Rock vs San Francisco comparison kind of happened because

I live near San Francisco and it's the big city I'm most familiar with, so that would be my go-to comparison

San Francisco is on a peninsula, bounded on water by 3 sides, so there's kinda a hard limit to how big the city can be, which is a similar issue with Casterly Rock. It's just that Casterly Rock is bounded by stone a lot more than water, but the hard limit is still the same.

Casterly Rock being approximately the same width as San Francisco was kind of something I found out by accident (see the first bullet point). I was looking on google maps, calculating distances in San Francisco. When I saw the distance from one side of SF to the other was about 2 leagues, I just sat there stunned for a minute, because I couldn't believe my eyes. 

Was there any city in particular you had in mind for the comparison?

I wondered if Tyrion or Sansa had taken to sleeping in another room of the suite but their sharing a bed lifts my shipper heart.

*blinks*

Well. Um. If you can read 3 quotes showing how absolutely miserable Tyrion and Sansa's marriage was, how they shared a bed but no other intimacy... (and note Tyrion woke early the day of Joffrey's wedding so he could go fuck Shae, as he did continuously throughout his marriage to Sansa)... and still say it "lifts your shipper heart"...

Yes.

And their nights together in the great bed were another source of torment. He could no longer bear to sleep naked, as had been his custom. His wife was too well trained ever to say an unkind word, but the revulsion in her eyes whenever she looked on his body was more than he could bear. Tyrion had commanded Sansa to wear a sleeping shift as well.

—ASOS, Tyrion IV

Tyrion dressed himself in darkness, listening to his wife’s soft breathing from the bed they shared. She dreams, he thought, when Sansa murmured something softly—a name, perhaps, though it was too faint to say—and turned onto her side. As man and wife they shared a marriage bed, but that was all. Even her tears she hoards to herself.

—ASOS, Tyrion VII

She threw back the coverlets. […] Her lord husband was not beside her, but she was used to that. Tyrion was a bad sleeper and often rose before the dawn.