#lcdp meta

So, let's look at the text. First up, Hannibal, 3x11

Hannibal: The building of a new body and the othering of himself, the splitting of his personality, all seem active and deliberate. He craves change. Will: He didn't murder those families. He changed them. Hannibal: Don't you crave change, Will?

Second, LCDP, 2x8

El Profesor: Yo estoy haciendo una inyección de liquidez. Pero no a la banca. La estoy haciendo aquí, en la economía real, de este grupo de desgraciados, que es lo que somos, Raquel. Para escapar de todo esto. Tu no quieres escapar? ('I'm injecting liquidity. But not to the banks. I'm doing it here, in the real economy, for this group of wretches, Raquel, which is what we are. To escape from all of this. Don't you want to escape?')

And, ok, they're not the only two stories in existence where one character begs the other to see things from their point of view, you might say. You're clutching at straws here, Nay, because Hannibal is your current obsession, and LCDP was the one that came before.

But it's not just the dialogue. And it's not just this one scene.

If we're looking very literally at these two scenes, you'll notice that one half of our pair is imprisoned, but even that's not just surface level. Both imprisoned parties should not, by rights, be there, if they'd behaved in a remotely rational way leading up to that point. Hannibal allowed himself to be imprisoned for Will, even though he should have killed him long ago to protect himself. Raquel, likewise, could and should have handed Sergio over to the police many, many episodes ago, but she didn't, because like Hannibal, she couldn't bring herself to hurt him.

However, the real parallel isn't between Hannibal and Raquel - Sergio/Hannibal and Raquel/Will are the parallel characters leading up to these scenes, and besides looking at who is currently imprisoned, the clearest parallels within the scenes too.

Both of these relationships are deeply manipulative and physically violent, but the person who is initially causing harm gets tripped up by their own feelings, opening a window for their intended victim to exercise power over them instead. And, although in each relationship there is a clear manipulator at first, even in their beginnings, they are equals, and natural enemies (even though they might not realise it at first).

That's not to say the characters are the same - Hannibal's manipulation is driven by curiosity, and Sergio's is driven by ideals. But the outcomes are surprisingly similar nonetheless - they realise their goals, and then they regret them. They both lose the trust of the person they have unwittingly fallen in love with, and as Will and Raquel see Hannibal and Sergio, respectively, for the people they really are, they want (or think they want) to exact revenge on them. Raquel ties Sergio up and interrogates him, threatens him, hurts him, and Will tries to have Hannibal killed, and works to prove that it's Hannibal who's the serial killer, not him. But both Will and Raquel, of course, are not quite able to bring their righteous violence to its logical conclusion. Raquel fails to turn Sergio into the police, despite the fact that she's in charge of catching him, and Will gets tangled in his own line as he tries to reel Hannibal in, finding Hannibal himself far more magnetic than the justice of catching him. Both of them want to hurt their manipulative counterpart, but they've fallen for them too (and for both of them, I think this adds to their fury at Hannibal/Sergio).

And then we reach these two scenes I referenced at the top of the post. In both shows, they appear towards the end (at least, the assumed end at the time - LCDP, of course, got three more seasons later on, and Hannibal was [is?!] supposed to have more too). In both shows, Will and Raquel have experienced a loss of some kind, a really significant loss, tied to their identity, that is the fault of Hannibal/Sergio - Raquel has lost her job and integrity as an inspector; Will's family has nearly been killed and are emotionally lost to him - and yet they are both running towards the cause of that loss. Raquel, of course, is ostensibly trying to catch Sergio by herself, and Will has come to yell at Hannibal. But there's a calm in both scenes that wouldn't be there if all the wronged party felt was anger - after a fight Raquel lets Sergio talk to her without interruption, just as Will allows Hannibal to talk back to him, to ask him questions. And then our two manipulators - both of whom, I might add, have almost thrown everything away for the people who were supposed to be collateral damage - make this final plea in the dialogue above.

They're very different people, Sergio and Hannibal, but the plea is, at it's core, the same. The world, they say, The world doesn't look the way you were taught to see it, and you don't fit into it the way you thought either.

It's a plea for acceptance, because if Will and Raquel can accept the world and themselves the way Hannibal and Sergio see them, then they are, by extension, accepting them. It's a please, god, just say you want to run away with me.

Hey, anon! Glad to hear from you! 😃😄

Yes, as a matter of fact, I did; I missed Denver and Mónica too much and was very curious regarding the korean take on them. And in what comes to the ship, I absolutely adored it. They took a proper pace with the development of their relationship, added some new dialogues that were truly appreciated and the actors are on point, their chemistry is adorable. *-* I was actually going to make a post about it, but you arrived first so I'm taking my chances. 😅

I've seen some people complaining about how it follows the same storyline but, c'mon, that's exactly what a remake is. They even tried to fix some issues that failed through the original, so I had my fun watching the korean version, even if it missed the human warmth and attachement that made us fall in love with this show in the first place. Of course La Casa de Papel will always be La Casa de Papel, don't get me wrong; comparisons will happen, but they're not necessarily fair...

Now with spoilers under the cut:

So I did some research lmao

Obviously I started out with this meme as reference just to be sure

(And I was right, the geriatric Italian— I know, my dad bought a real one off eBay lol)

So I googled this bad boy

And discovered that it was actually made in the 30s by a this guy

Look at him looking like Marsielle

Also he grew up and looked just like Einstein which is basically proof he was a genius

Isn’t that interesting— Italy 🇮🇹 sounds like someone we know! But I looked it up and it’s over a days drive away from Palermo

It even has its own nickname

It’s considered such a feat of engineering its blueprints are on display

TLDR; In conclusion: Martin invented the Moka pot during his previous reincarnation as Marseille’s doppelgänger, Alfonso Bialetti

Alfonso Bialetti (date of death 1970) Martin Berrote (dob unknown supposedly late 30s making him born in the early 80s // or if we use Rodrigo’s age he was born in 76 so this gives him about 10 to 15 years give or take to reincarnate)

This is me rightnow:

😁

Okay but now seriously what I came to bother you for.

So I asked for your meta for Martín and it was *chef's kiss* 😙. Really so good, I'm really interested in your vision of the characters.

Soooooo, meta for Andrés, please?🥺

I can’t wait to read more! It’s the strangest thing bc I want to read fic so bad but then I’m like I want to write something at the same time lol

Andrés is tough because he’s such a great character— he has a lot of different facets because he’s so eccentric, narcissistic, but then he also has this capability for great emotion and he just radiates crazy passion; with just about everything he does, he does it with poise and grace but also with an edge of a slightly demented cult leader because it’s almost like he has a god complex when dealing with the hostages.

Andrés has an OCD concerning his appearance and about what other people think of him. Yes he’s an egotistical maniac as well but his self assuredness of his greatness comes from the way he has perfected this perfect polished image of himself. Berlin is so upset when accused of sex trafficking on the news, upset on a level that has everything to do with his pride. He might be a thief but he has his own sense of morals. He goes to extreme lengths to secure an interview with the press during the mint heist because he wanted the dignity of his character sustained. During the interview he performs like he’s in this great Shakespearean act. But essentially he is controlling the narrative of himself so he is seen just as he wants himself to be depicted to the outside world and media. Given how much he seems to care about what the world thinks of him, it makes sense that he would have another curated image of himself-tweaked just so that the people around him also perceive him in the way he wants. For example, he purposely hides the fact that he is ill bc indubitably that doesn’t mesh with how he wants to be viewed by his friends.

He’s been married and remarried and married again. For whatever reason, each of these women evidently don’t live up to his expectations or don’t fit with his perfected persona.

I don’t think Andrés goes to bed without at least mentally considering his outfit for the next day— the scarves, fedora, extravagant dressing gowns— it’s all over the top! He’s obviously so obsessive about his clothes and we aren’t really given a reason why other than to create an obvious contrast with Sergio’s lack of any particular fashion sense at all so we can only guess.

I think it’s really interesting that Andrés somehow almost forces Martin’s role in life to help boost his image. Martin dresses pretty normal usually aside from the time he want all Trent Reznor with his black suit and black tie. Berlin dresses far more fancier and posh which I always thought was kind of funny because I initially expected Palermo to be really into his outfits after he starts chanting about homosexual sex during the dinner because he was all slapping his but with his perfectly tailored leather jacket and the waistband strap or whatever (I don’t even know what it’s called ) I figured he must have some other colorful outfits (and he does) but it’s obvious he doesn’t care about fashion and perfecting his appearance the way Andres does. Berlin’s entire wedding was basically in uniform which goes along with the idea of needing to control his image. I don’t know why he let Martin get away with that hot pink shirt except that it just seems that Andrés makes exceptions for Martin. I wouldn’t be surprised if Berlin bought Palermo some of his nicer outfits (like the one with the vest and then the jacket) because Martin seemed fine running around like Steve Irwin at one point with that stupid tan shirt.

But even with Martin Andrés is careful to leave him in the background just enough so he can parade around with his expensive women and whatnot, controlling the narrative, keeping him at a distance and I think he takes Martin’s loyalty a bit for granted. He doesn’t introduce or include Martin in the heist with his son and there’s no indication that this was during the time when the two of them had their falling out, so why not involve Martin? And I think the answer to that is that Andrés cares so much about his image and Palermo is a wild card so he excludes him on purpose.

Andrés can be quite mean obviously but I think he really cares about his son. Despite all the things he says to Rafael “you were a nuclear warhead!” I think we can also really tell how excited and animated Andrés is that scene. The man stopped to play follow the finger with lobsters!- he was having a good time despite the fact that the two of them are clearly estranged to some extent and he also had his own interior motives. But the look Berlin gives Rafael after their heist, he’s beaming with pride and glowing like a pregnant woman when that suitcase pops back up and Rafael has this huge smile. And Berlin is proud that he has taught his son something he feels is worthy.

I think the flashbacks show us that Berlin would have probably enjoyed being a father. All the shit he says to Rafael is basically bluff; he just wants appear like the most ideal father with the prettiest wife, most money, who is stern and commanding, etc because that’s what Andrés seems to think a man should be according to the way he presents himself.

If the show had gone a different way, I think what we would eventually see in Berlin’s character arch would have a lot to do with the breaking apart of that image he had made of himself. Berlin would have more time spent with his son and Rafael has already showed that he has his own way of operating as an individual with a different moral code. I think Berlin would eventually let go of that image because he would have to if he wanted to keep his son in his life.

Hope this helps at least a little😊.

I’d be interested in hearing about them! Definitely shoot me a message! :) Is your ao3 name the same as this?

Martín has an addictive personality. He’s portrayed as an alcoholic. It’s most likely he has relapsed in his recovery in the past before he heard of Berlin’s death and reunited with Sergio. This means he not only has a dependence on alcohol but also a dependency on altering his state of mind when he feels out of control— this could extend beyond alcohol and into cautious or risky tries with other addictive substances. We know that Martín likes to drink socially based on flashbacks. I find it more likely that based on what we know, it would have been Martín and not Mónica who went straight for the drugs once things went bad in the heist. In fact I would not be surprised if Martín dipped into the governor of the banks stash.

We don’t see Martin drinking anything other than basically tea or milk besides alcohol. Those are drinks that people use sooth the stomach. My guess is Palermo loves sugar and sweets and this could be something he developed as a coping mechanism for while making the transition into sobriety. The damn man managed to find an entire tray of muffins and kept them all to himself! His tea is probably filled with too much sugar which defeats the purpose of tea soothing the stomach. He probably eats a lot of pastries and things which makes him feel sick— thus the glass of milk. He gets cranky when he doesn’t get his sugar fix.

Martín might cry but Palermo doesn’t. The only excuse is if someone is dying. Palermo has a hard exterior but it’s mostly an act. We see him function very differently as Martin or in the company of people who know him as ‘Martin’. The whole point of his “Boom boom ciao” speech was to drive a wedge between himself and the rest of the gang— Palermo acts like a misogynist in this scene, overly so. He’s trying to put the gang at length because the only person he loved as ‘Martín’ rejected him and left when Andrés chose Sergio’s plan over his. Palermo is telling the truth when he says he doesn’t love anyone. But ‘Palermo’ is also nothing more than desperate and defensive maneuver that functions as Martin’s alter ego— Martin loves deeply and very passionately whether romantic or platonic. We can see the ‘Palermo facade’ crumble and fall apart to reveal only Martin after Nairobi’s savage verbal showdown and then again when he hears/sees the shot ring out as Nairobi dies. Palermo doesn’t cry with heart wrenching sobs that leave him snotty and with a face of his own spit and drool; but Martín absolutely does.

Yeah. We could argue that Plan Paris and Roma were designed to be last chance scenarios, hopefully never to be used. And that Sergio did intend to bring Raquel to the bank (interesting one here, WHY inside the bank? Is their getaway so reliant on them all being inside there? Since Sergio walks into the bank in the Part 2 trailer) but *not* to put her in charge, and only did that because of the way Palermo acted with the whole Gandia disaster.

However, you're right, once plan Paris went in effect, plan Roma was a necessity - as soon as Raquel stepped inside that bank, the police would go in Beast Mode and try to get inside, so they'd have to focus on fighting back, putting the melting of the gold on the backburner.

What's more likely is that seasons 3-5 are a showcase in what happens when you don't think things through and write alongside filming. They *could* pass off putting Raquel in charge as Palermo's punishment because yeah - it makes sense and is the perfect punishment - and hope & pray that viewers won't notice.

But that makes me wonder - what could Sergio punish Palermo with, a man who lost everything? After it's all done, nonetheless. The whole point of the second heist was to rescue one of their own, he can't give Palermo to the authorities or something heinous like this. The way he describes Palermo, taking the plan off his hands IS the perfect punishment, on par with ruining Andres' prized reputation during the Mint heist.

It may just be that we're all trying too find some sense in chaotic writing.

To sum it up: Palermo is a plot device. And I hate it.

He takes the backseat in the heist he planned and possibly came up with. That's so great. Isn't it great? (NO) I guess that with both Raquel and Palermo inside the bank, the writers had to choose. And they choose Raquel because, IMO, they really don't know what to do with her after season 3. She can't just be ~The Professor's Girlfriend, that's reductive, and she can't be with him in the water treatment thing, because the whole thing with Alicia wouldn't have been possible. Plus, her getting captured was so obviously (IMO) a plot device to raise tension, and when they freed her, they couldn't have just delivered her to where Sergio was hiding - again, because Alicia had to ~capture Sergio.

Honestly, the writers of this show don't really know what to do with their female characters, do they?

So she's inside the bank, and she's more than competent to take charge. She IS. But it was Palermo's plan, right? It's hinted that he came up with it, if we are to take historical aspects into consideration and his rant to Gandia about the gold that the Spanish have stolen. And his reverence about the stolen gold items in the museum. So it was his plan, right? To me it's.... rude at the very least to push him to the background. In HIS plan. Sergio no doubt told Raquel everything about it - hell, he told her things that he didn't even tell Palermo - so she can absolutely do it. But-- should she? Do the couple of months she's spent with Sergio preparing for the heist weigh more than the years Martin spent working on it and developing it?

Maybe this is the punishment Sergio has for Palermo - to be honest, it's more punishment than anything else he could come up with, to take the reins of his plan from under him. To take power from someone so obsessed with it. To take something that has such a deep meaning to him, and give it to someone else.

Not to mention - what in the name of fuq is Sergio thinking? He knows Palermo, knows how he is ("obsessed with power" being one of them) and he still decides to take the most competent leader of the plan and set him to relaying orders? You could argue that the three of them agreed to it before going in, and I'd be fine with it - Palermo may be controlling but he is not stupid; he knows how to do right by the plan - but he was clearly blindsided when Raquel came in talking about a plan he wasn't privy to (Roma, IIRC). Sergio, respectfully; WTF man? (and by "Sergio", I mean, "Pina")

In short, I hate it. I have a lot of Feelings and Opinions about it, but overall, I hate it. LCDP is about the plan and them outsmarting ~the system; but the plan, no matter how you cut it, is about Martin and Andres. They set it up together and then--

So yeah. Palermo was a plot device to the writers. Just there to be the origin for another plan; a new character with a convenient history - him and Andres working on this new plan that Sergio appropriates and gives to someone else, basically - if we're going after what happened in part 1 and what Rodrigo said about part 2.