#ki replies

thank you! delicious ask. my approach to SIM is. he is so sad. and he will die before he tells you about it, just like OG tony. I think he is jealous of how much steve loves his non-SIM self, and the connection they have, and knows that the only way to provoke an organic, intense, romantic-adjacent emotional response from steve in his SIM form is to antagonize him. I think SIM thinks that he is in control of the relationship, because he is actively manipulating steve always, and he holds contempt for steve and steve’s goodness, and steve’s dedication to him even in his SIM-ness, and wishes to tear something beautiful down.

I also think SIM is devoid of the. “god. this is my fault.” shame architecture that underpins a lot of 616 tony’s motivation and behavior and has, instead, a different shame underbelly that is like. “my non-evil self is fucking pathetic and everything I say and do will prove to you that i am better than he is.” I believe he would die rather than ever voice this insecurity feeling about his og self to anyone. it’s kind of like hating your dad except you are your dad.

sure!

great question. I confess I have not read nearly as many FF comics as I would like, when I do read them I am usually reading them for stevetony/avengers fic research. for instance, right now I am writing this stevetony TPE situation that follows my recent post-SIM drabblecraft experiment and happens in the 8 month void between hickmanvengers and pleasant hill. where is reed? Not Here. but I need him for purposes of mindwipe closure and universe re-establishment via franklin. so I have had to consult a reed richards scholar (@johnnystorms) in recent days to even orient myself here. I’m not sure I have an opinion about him. the reed tenderness you are identifying is probably present because narratively he is important to tony and I am always aware of that. I’m always writing tony as autistic but reed is also, in a different font, in that he is not dealing with the daddy issues, emotional enmeshment with his work, or substance abuse issues that attend tony’s autism. probably it makes him better at his super work than tony. in that. reed seems to experience less distress/soul-level angst/identification with the dirty hands tasks, as they are a precondition of progress and Larger Good and thus acceptable to him. (reed also notably does not have a love interest/foil that is the embodiment of earnest hope for the future.)

Maybe an Avenger HAD to volunteer and they don’t have someone like Natasha on the team, so Steve is the closest to a baseline human on the team and is the least likely to harm him more then necessary. Steve volunteering because he feels responsible, Steve volunteering because he’s the one that has watched the most amount of tortures of the team (on his orders no less, right Commander? Maybe it’s justice that he now has to get HIS hands dirty for once), Steve volunteering because Tony maybe thinking Steve WANTS to do this one way or another, STEVE learning that maybe there was part of him that wanted to? Trying to keep that raising feeling/fear at bay

Steve trying to make Tony hurt without causing lasting damage. Maybe the bad guys are knowledgeable enough to know if Steve is doing a good enough job and so that fact is hanging over Steve’s head, that he has to do it RIGHT or if he doesn’t hurt Tony enough they’ll take over and make it even worse or lasting. Maybe the bad guys are actually more lucky and sadistic and dumb, and knowing these idiots are the ones making Captain America torture Iron Man is another layer of maddening

Steve trying not to let all the times Tony has hurt him make his hands heavier on the knife, Steve trying not to let the image of Tony bleeding and begging (is he playing along or is Steve really hurting him so bad?) send HIS blood south, because this version of Tony is just SO pretty, red has always been his color

(Is this torture for information? For sadistic pleasure? Is there a goal? Or are they just running out the clock?)

reading this has me realizing it's hard for me to situate an abstract forced-to-torture-their partner situation without substantial plot scaffolding. like. who is the bad guys. what are the stakes here. is it about tony and tony alone or is tony shorthand for failing to protect the world at large. i think there are a lot of situations where steve would be like. lol. fuck you. at someone who is like. i can hurt tony or you can hurt tony. because steve knows what is a weapon and who is wielding the weapon. and i think 616 steve's ideas about 'am i complicit' in this are uncomplicated. like yes. i made war. i killed people. it was atrocious and the times were atrocious and i hope i don't have to go back there again but i will if i'm called. and i also think - i know this is contentious - i think that the panel of him from secret avengers is true to his character and honest in a way i wish more people would engage with when thinking and writing about steve. like. there are realities about what goes on when you are the special glutes boy king of black ops after 9/11 in the united states. like the panel of him walking away. we see his back. he's leaving the dirty work to his friends. specifically nat (implied). is he absolving himself of the dirty work? i don't think so. his orders, his responsibility. but i think he knows about the boundaries between what he's capable of and what he lets himself do. what he stops himself from doing. but he is a pivotal cog in a system that perpetuates violence. 'we don't torture people.' okay. you don't. but your organization does. people you handpicked for your team do, have done, as a matter of institutional policy. even if you say no! stephen. someone is going to take him downstairs and do it for you. steve is powerful and has political and social and superhero caché but he cannot stop the world from turning. this is also why i find it incredibly stupid when writers are like. steve was in wwii but he doesn't kill! okay. are you sure? this isn't a mel gibson movie. i actually know someone who went to jail for being a conscientious objector. that is not steve rogers (616). i also know about physics and he is severing spines with that shield, baby. they are not walking it off. like. i'm sorry. it's not fucking realistic. he ran all over the globe with the invaders and steve 'i have anger issues' rogers came away from that experience being one of the more emotionally well-adjusted surviving members of that team.

(Does he think this is an objective, righteous mission, not one fuelled by heartbreak and regret, no it isn’t telling that he only really kills himsel- other Captain Americas and (almost?) never Iron Men, it’s just the best way to FIX things. Tony, can survive and rebuild without a Steve, Steves need a Tony or they destroy and ruin the world, they are empty shells, foolish and useless idiots that lead the heroes to ruin with a flag on his chest when what he needs is a blast to the head to stop Pied Pipering everyone to the end of the world in some holy war every time, no he’s not projecting)

i think if he's fucked any tonies, it was his tony, a lot, before he died steve killed him. like, they were in an established relationship, and then i doubt he gives in to his i-want-to-fuck-love-kill tony desires when he goes on multiverse raids. civil warrior steve strikes me as The Saddest, Most Alone steve of all of them. i think even deathlok steve has more rapport with his tony even if it is hate-foreplay.

we don't really know anything about what happened in his universe re the nuance of the fantasy patriot act there. who took what side, what arguments were made, what details were withheld. personally - and i have given this a great deal of thought - i think that civil warrior steve sees his tony die and he decides, Once, "that's on me. that is completely my fault," and he makes it his LIFE to never have to do/watch experience that again. he unilaterally decides that he is the problem variable, which. funny as in preposterously sad and INCREDIBLY tonycore behavior. so i think he is hunting steves mostly, but once in a while he'll come across a fucked up version of tony that needs to go (sim?), and he'll do it, and he'll need to take like a month off to chainsmoke and consider suicide before getting back on the murder horse.

i think civil warrior steve is willing to become whatever he needs to be in order to never examine his trauma around tony. he is unwilling to ever return to the intensity of that moment of tony's death but instead of imploding like 616 tony does after 616 steve's death, he decides that he is monstrous and he will simply take himself off the board across space and time. do less harm. and he takes a leaf out of tony's book and literally puts on armor and covers his face. like i imagine he is not even honest with the other steves about who he is. that helmet stays the fuck on. no introductions, no prepare to die, just. a murder. makes the work a little smoother. god. what a mess! what a fucking mess.