Inside kaya!'s Internal Dialogue
In a world where the internet is the place to be for new music, it makes some people overwhelmed with the sheer amount of artists and albums to check out. Despite that, the diamonds in the rough manage to stand out and kaya! is a shining example of putting your name on the map. Hailing from the UK, kaya!ās debut album āinternal dialogueā released in late July last year and the mix of ethereal, glitchy soundscapes coupled with nicely complementing vocals creates quite a unique listening experience. Recently I sat down with kaya! to discuss his creative process, dig deeper into the lyrical and sonic influences in his music, and what the future has in store for him.Ā !
Kade: So, let's start at the beginning. Who is kaya! ?
kaya!: Okay, so Iām currently 20 years old. I live in the UK, and Iām half African, half from here. Iām a university student right now studying Music Composition for Film and Game. So that's kind of what I want to go into. So this whole, me as an artist, kaya! exclamation mark, blah, blah, blah, that's all like kind of a hobby, I guess.
It's something I put a lot of effort and passion into, but I think I can put more effort and passion into it without worrying about it as a source of income, I guess. Then, you know my composition and scoring for film and game is what I make my money on, so I can afford to care a little less about it. Not that I donāt care about that, I love what I do, but Iām sure you get it.
Kade: The first thing I wanted to ask you about was your latest album, āinternal dialogueā, which has now been out for a little over seven months. Now that it's been out in the world, received, discussed, how are you feeling?
kaya!: So, mixed, I would say, and that's not because of any reception to the album. The reception was really positive. As I made it I was getting a lot of feedback from a couple of guys, and obviously, because they're close friends who want to make music, they're going to tell me what's good and what's not. So, I was very happy with the project when it came out. That's changed a little bit - in the sense that over time, as I've kind of become better at production since then, I've realised that, oh crap, some of this sounds a little... sounds a little wonky.
The vocals on some of the tracks, you can't tell what I'm saying. And that sucks when I put so much effort into the album conceptually. But at the same time, there's a good three or four songs on there that I absolutely love and I'm so proud of, and ultimately I'm so happy it's out in the world. As a debut project from a guy who picked up music three years ago and made stuff on a beanbag in my bedroom, and then first started doing vocals a year ago, it's like, yeah, no, I'm really happy with it, I am.Ā
I got into a phase for a while where - I'm sure every music nerd who has a Twitter account has done this at some point - where you just start checking out AOTY scores and Rate Your Music scores and stuff like that. So, when the album came out and not every single person loved it, I was just like, āOh my God, what have I done?ā But I've kind of come out of that phase, a few months ago now, because I was just like, dude, I made this project for me. I've seen the impact it's had on some people, and that's what means a lot to me. So overall positive, but yeah, there's definitely some problems I have.
Kade: Speaking of what went into the album, I know that there was a lot involved visually. Could you tell me a little more about the artistic direction that you took with the album?
kaya!: Yeah, so my friend, one of my best friends, Parm, he's a musician. He's also a visual artist as well. He does a lot of stuff with film. And he basically just said, hey, look, man, I'm really passionate about this album too. I will do all your visuals for free. And I was like, okay, that's crazy, are you sure? If it makes any money, you're getting a big cut. And he's like, okay, sure. So, he did all my visuals for free, which is amazing, and I'm so blessed. I now owe him a massive favour. His brother actually also did the cover out. That was not for free, obviously, because it's bloody gorgeous. Not saying Parmās stuff isnāt but you get what I mean.
the cover art for internal dialogue
In terms of visual direction, the sound of the music and its visual identity is something I want to keep really consistent. So, the sound of the music is really glitchy and weird - I don't want to say abstract, because that sounds a little bit pretentiousā¦but I guess somewhat abstract. And I kind of wanted the visuals to be kind of a little art house-y.. I like weird and Parmās very good at that. So yeah, he did a bunch of canvases, especially for the album.
I wanted, like, a cool little rollout with it because I was really passionate about the project. I'm like, okay, I know this isn't going to blow me out of the water commercially. That's not what I'm looking for. I want something where I can look back on this rollout and be like, dude, I put a lot of effort into this. Well not I, I shouldn't say, we did because I didn't put in half as much of the effort in that regard. I had the constantly changing banners on Twitter every day for a week leading up to the album dropping. And that's all been uploaded on my Instagram, obviously. That was something that I still think is, like, insanely cool. Parmās idea. I'm so proud of Parm for doing that. Yeah, just kind of weird, wacky, melancholic, I guess, in keeping with the album. If that makes sense.
Kade: Going back to the more sonic side of it, when you released the album, you listed a bunch of your key influences in the making of the project, including artists like Jane Remover, Porter Robinson and Yeule, just to name a few. How did those influences bleed into the album and what do those artists mean to you?
kaya!: I'll start off with how they blend into the album because I think that's a lot more of a simple thing to explain. You can clearly hear in my production all of these different cues I've taken; I'm not saying it's like a rip-off of any sorts because I think, on the album, I've managed to mesh them together in a way where it definitely feels like me. But like for example, you can easily hear the influence on the title track, āinternal dialogueā. The synth lead - I literally just transposed down the synth lead from āyour clothesā off of Frailty and then just threw it into my own track - and yeah it sounds great. I mean, you can't tell when you're listening to it? Or maybe you can, but it's not like, oh my god, what are you doing ripping them off like that?
Porter Robinson is my favourite artist of all time. I've written an entire big synopsis on why Nurture is a godsend to me. That doesn't even necessarily bleed through in any production, but there's an obvious interpolation of Musician on āpaint the canvas whiteā. Thatās my favourite track on the record, by the way. There's also an interpolation of Yeule's āghostsā on my own track of the same name, I say interpolation but I did kind of entirely nab the lyrics from. But I credited them as a songwriter as well. Call it a cover if you want. It just felt right.
That kind of weird; and it's beautiful; glitchy production, kind of indietronica-coded. That's always like, ever since I first heard like Frailty, and Wallsocket when that came out. It kind of showed me that you can have these beautiful electronic, crazy soundscapes and still have an emotional core and heart. That's what Nurture is to me. That's why that album is so incredible to me, because it is so emotionally potent while not casting aside any of those EDM leanings he had on Worlds. And that's powerful to me. That's so powerful to me. That's influenced my music a lot. It's shown me that I can do absolutely anything and still have my emotions bleed through on every track.
Kade: Going back to the production, some of the tracks have a lot of layers to the point where it could become overwhelming. How do you manage to maintain cohesion when in the creative process of making these tracks?
kaya!: That's a great question. I'd argue that sometimes I don't and that's the problem. But on the tracks I do, tracks like āthe wrong idea!ā, like the climax of that track, I'm so proud of. To clarify, I listened to a couple of songs before doing this interview, so I could have a refresher of the album. Anyway. The climax of āthe wrong idea!ā, it's so layered, but it all feels, like, so precisely constructed, I guess. The way I did that when I was actually producing it, was just by sitting with the song, rendering it out. Every single time I worked on it, I'd render it out, listen to it like five times on my way to uni, and just walk around, driving, whatever. And then I'd write down every single problem and comment I had with how it was constructed, anything I can make better.
I just did that time after time after time. So, I had that perfect base layer that I'm really proud of. I got, uh, Takuxo to do some of the synths on that track as well. And she sent those over and obviously they're just stems. And I was like, oh God, how do I mix them in? But I think having the stems there made that track so much better to mix because I could just phase these elements in and out and just have these synths flying everywhere, coming and going. And because it's not me making those, I don't have as much of an attachment to them, I guess. So, I'm more willing to just let stuff go and come in and come out. Her synth design is insane by the way. Check her stuff out. If she ever actually drops music. Intense side eye. Anyway, I think that craziness kinda made for a perfect example of what I can do with that more maximalist mixing
Same with something like āengulfedā, where there's obviously a lot going on, it's a very full song, but from a technical standpoint, when mixing, I knew what every instrument was doing in every frequency range, and I just have to keep that in mind when I'm actually making a song that I can't have stuff overlapping, because then it's just going to sound like mush. Obviously, that's a bit boring when I should be making a song, to look at it from a technical frequency range standpoint, but I think it's important. Yeah, so that's the main way, just like listening to it over and over.
Kade: In your creative process with such grand arrangements sometimes, do you tend to start more with vocals or instruments first?
kaya!: I think thatās where a lot of the problems with internal dialogue came from. I say problems, my issues came from the fact that I don't start with vocals, that's what I've changed a little bit recently. I started with instrumentals. I built up like the full instrumentals and then I'd go like, oh, shit I need vocals on this. Then the vocals don't sit in the mix because itās already full. But even now I definitely start with instrumentals. I focus on the soundscape first. I don't even touch melodies for a while. I'll just build this perfect soundscape now and just make sure that everything's going into just sounding as beautiful and pretty as possible. Then I might do a vocal melody or like a synth melody, a guitar melody, whatever. But it's really focused on texturing first for me.
Kade: In that same vein, when it comes to the vocals, do you focus more on finding vocals that work as if your voice was an instrument or do you really tend to get into the nitty-gritty of the songwriting aspects with your lyrics?
kaya!: So when I first started out doing vocals, I had the idea of them being purely like an instrument. That's partly why they're so auto-tuned and messed with. While I was doing that, I was also writing lyrics that I felt were really emotionally potent.
Because the first song I worked on for the album was the title track, I think the lyrics are much more simple on that song, but they're great. They've kind of got like a tsubi club or like even a Porter Robinson type vibe to them where, like, they're straightforward and easy to understand, but they've got the emotional potency to make the song actually hit like that. So, I think I do focus a bit more on them being like an instrument of sorts. I did anyway. But that's changing now. I'm still focused on lyricism, but I do also think songwriting is really important to get right with lyricism.
But the way I was often crafting my narratives on internal dialogue was through the song structures, and that was something thatās really strong throughout the album. I think that's where the best songs came from - I would tell the story of the track, not only through the lyrics, but also through how the song is structured, you know, with all these linear, progressive structures that change and warp as they're going along. I think that's where my favourite parts of that album are when I really nailed the telling of the story through the song structure as opposed to my lyrics. If that makes sense.
Kade: Recently you were part of the Parannoul fan compilation Hundreds of Us. Could you tell me what it means to be a part of that compilation and also a little bit about your contribution to the project, Nondistinct?
kaya!: Yeah, of course. So my other friend, Taniza, who also had a song on the album called Afterglow, which is amazing, they messaged me out of the blue one day and they go, hey, do you want to work on this Parannoul Discord fan compilation? Iām like, oh God, I don't have time for this right now. But a couple weeks later, I joined anyway because I was like, I want to see what other people do.
I started listening to people's songs and it kind of reminded me why I fell in love with making music in the first place, just hearing all these demos that so many people were sending around. In that same vein that Parannoul himself comes in, where it's like... God, this is so passionate. You can feel the emotion, it's so palpable in those songs. You can feel that every single one of these people who look up to him so much that they're willing to, you know, make a fan song for him, making these songs and pouring their hearts out. And I heard those and I just go, God, I need to take part in this.
And some of those songs like, I think leuterioās track was called ālie with meā?. That oneās, like, immaculate. And thereās artists like Asian Glow and Turq that I listen to all the time and love and look up to that were taking part. So I felt like I'd be missing out on something that people may even be talking about in a few years.
And even then, even if not, it's like, I wanted to make a song for it, in tribute to an artist that I adore so much. I've been listening to Parannoul since maybe about a year or two after I started seriously getting into music. I found him, I don't know, I think it was when After the Magic came out. I heard that when it came out and I was like, God, this is really great. Like the only shoegaze Iād heard before that was mbv (my bloody valentine) and Slowdive. And I went back to To See the Next Part of the Dream and also Paraglow, because Iād heard Weatherglow as well around that time. This was just before After the Night came out, the live album. Then that came out and I was like, this is the best album of the decade. That live version of Into the Endless Night is so flawlessly incredible and powerful. And it's just like, God, how? How did he do this? So, to make a song in tribute to an artist like that is amazing.
I've never really dove fully into that shoegaze bag before. I've done it a little bit on the title track of internal dialogue in the back half. But I have a guitar and I just don't play it on songs. Iām still in the early stages of learning to play. So I was like, why don't I make a shoegaze song? Why the hell not? So yeah, I did. I still kept it in with my, you know, a bit more electronic stylings. But I think I managed to nail that kind of indietronica shoegaze vibe, especially the stuff that he was going for on After the Magic. It was kind of just about me in the aftermath of internal dialogue, realizing, oh, this didn't solve my problems. I just kind of want to be okay, I guess, is kind of the message of the song. The vocals sound lovely on there. That's something I'm really happy with. That's my favourite part of the song. It's just, oh God, these vocals sound really good. I can sing well. Still some clarity issues, but I think I just need a new mic. Itās time to move on from my NT1.
So, I made a post about it in the aftermath where I was like, God, this is, I'm so happy to be included on this. Even if people listen to my song and they don't care, it's like, God, there are so many talented people I'm alongside here. It's like an absolute blessing. So happy and proud to be part of it.
Kade: Speaking of Nondistinct, you mentioned a little bit there about the sonic direction that it was taking, saying that when the track came out that it was a bit of a stylistic departure from internal dialogue. What do you see yourself creating in the near future as you continue to develop your sound?
kaya!: So, I've been listening to a lot of indie folk recently. In particular, The Microphones, obviously, Bright Eyes, Low Roar. I stumbled upon Low Roar ā 0 recently. That album is so flawless and everything. The production is a godsend, his vocals are a godsend. I just kind of heard that album and I went, I really want to make folktronica. So, I've got a song I've been... I say I've been working on it. It's nearly done, but obviously I want to keep it for a while until I've got a full project to release alongside it. But it's got a mix of indie folk, indietronica, folktronica, a couple industrial elements, I guess.
I've realised this recently, I have a lot of revelations in my musical career that don't actually lead to anything, where it's like, oh, this is what I've been doing wrong, this is what I've been doing wrong, it's just like copium. But I've realised recently that when I try to focus too much on a genre, I just don't make music that I'm happy with. Because when I make a song and it exceeds my expectation, that's like crack, right? And when I'm trying to make a song that's going to blow me away, having an understood expectation of what I'm going to be making before I start doing it kind of kills it for me, I think. The song I'm working on now is called āSheep in Wolfās Clothingā. I didn't know what I was doing. I think I found a splice loop for a guitar, acoustic guitar. And I was like, God, it's, like, actually pretty. Like an actual interesting splice loop. So, I just build and build around that and build a whole song out of that. And you know, crazy drums come in and it's like, Blah, blah, blah. Oh my gosh, wait, how did I make this? And I look back at it and I'm like, dude, how did I think of this? That's the greatest feeling in the world. I have that with āpaint the canvas whiteā as well. I'm like, how did I do this? So yeah, I don't want to boil myself down to a genre. I have, contradictory to that, posted that I want to make a folktronica album multiple times. As well as like a little Spotify playlist of influences that I can send you if you want. The Lily Chou-Chou soundtrack as well. That movie changed my life. And Arabesque from it is great, I heard the Ichiko Aoba version as well. Oh my gosh, it's so pretty. I've got a song that's kind of inspired by that that I want to work on more now because I'm nearly finished with the first one. So, if you want to boil it down to one word, folktronica, I guess. But I'm weird and I'm me and that's all that I know for sure right now.
Kade: We spoke a little bit earlier about some artists that have influenced your sound. But what are some other artists that may not have influenced your sound, but you still hold near and dear to your heart?
kaya!: So, stuff you wouldn't find immediately obvious, I guess, by looking at my production stylings. Stuff like Sufjan Stevens, who is probably my favourite artist ever, or maybe itās still Porter Robinson, I don't know. I heard Illinois for the first time and it just opened my eyes to like how beautiful and varied and magical music can be. All the way back to the start of my journey into all of this, there was - ignoring Kanye West - Car Seat Headrest. I listened to Twin Fantasy back in 2020, and it kind of like, again, opened my eyes to what music can be. Because before then, and this isn't any hate to any of the artists I'm about to say, because I still love some of them, but I was very big on like, you know, the emo trinity of Fall Out Boy, My Chemical Romance, Twenty One Pilots, all of that. And again, they make great music, especially MCR. But I didn't really go outside of that.
Then I heard like, I don't know, Eminem and Kanye West, and I was like, oh, rap music is cool too. I swear Iām not white. And then I heard Car Seat Headrest, and I was like, wait, music in general is just really cool. And Twin Fantasy has changed my life, and it's saved my life and it's an incredibly potent album. Beach Life-in-Death is maybe my favourite song ever made. Who else? Fishmans as well, obviously, because I'm a music nerd online. Underscores. I don't think this comes through as clearly in my music, but I've been really big into fishmonger specifically recently, and the new album is going to be bloody incredible. (kaya! in post here - the new album was in fact incredible).
I've been getting into rage recently, which I never expected. Slayr and Lucy Bedroque and stuff like that has been really cool. Beach House. I adore Beach House. I've listened to every one of their albums like a billion times. Oh, and Ichiko Aoba has been my most streamed artist of the past 12 months, I'm pretty sure, and I haven't stopped listening to her, like, at all. Incredibly calming music keeps me, like, grounded. It kind of speaks to how much you can do solo. Iām going to her Royal Albert Hall concert at the end of March with my girlfriend and Iām so excited.
Kade: With so many visual aspects to your music that we were speaking about earlier, are there any visual mediums that you really enjoy? Movies, TV series, etc?
kaya!: Yeah, so I was never like a big nerd about it until recently, in the same way that I have been with music for like 5 years now. Like every kid my age, I watched a lot of anime growing up. I got into Dragon Ball when I was really young, and then like every 12 year old stumbled onto, like, Tokyo Ghoul, and Sword Art Online. Neither of which have aged the best in my conscience. In that field, I'm basic and I love Attack on Titan so much, and I think it's a masterpiece. I've been watching the new season of Jujutsu Kaisen with my friends, and I've read the manga, and it's just really nice to see their reactions to everything that's going on. That's being adapted insanely well right now, better than I thought it would be. Iām not even that big on the manga. In terms of live action stuff, I'm really big into Better Call Saul, Succession, I watched Beef on Netflix pretty recently and that was incredible.
Film wise, I love Wes Anderson, I was really big into all the classic animated films growing up, Pixar and that. I love what Iāve seen of Studio Ghibli as well, I've been getting into that filmography recently - I watched Princess Mononoke when my girlfriend and I started dating a year back, and Iāve been hooked since. The Boy and the Heron, Whisper of the Heart, Grave of the Fireflies made me want to kill myself. All About Lily Chou-Chou, again, got into my veins recently. It's my favourite film now, I think. The Spider-Verse movies really captured my imagination when I saw them in cinemas, especially the first one. I was like, God, like movies, wow, I didn't know, like, this could be this cool. I'd say I'm into everything, just probably not in the same way that I am music, but I'm trying to get into film a bit more right now. Iāve watched a lot of the film-bro classics recently. Tarantinoās stuff (to mixed thoughts), Fight Club, Shawshank, Everything Everywhere All At Once. Iām working on it.
Kade: Is there anything that you think really brings forth any type of influence into your work the same way, like Porter Robinson does into your music?
kaya!: Lily Chou-Chou. I watched that film near the end of internal dialogue, and it's kind of the entire reason āpaint the canvas whiteā exists. I don't know how I can explain that more without actually going into the song for way longer than I can right now. Photography does, because sometimes when I'm making a song, I have a photo that I think kind of represents the atmosphere of what I'm going for up on my other monitor. But I don't know if I'd say it bleeds into it in the same way, I guess.
Kade: Then to wrap things up, looking forward, what are three things that you would like to achieve within the next year, whether that be musically or personally?
kaya!: Okay, so... I need a minute to think about this. So, I'm going to Korea to study abroad this coming September. So, I just want that to go well, I guess. I'm a little scared, but I'm also really excited. I'm quite extroverted, so I think I'll be fine. But, you know, it's the whole thing of ditching your friends for a year. So, I want to be confident when I'm away there, pretty proud of myself. just a little more secure in my talent, I guess. I know I'm good at this, but sometimes when you make a bunch of slop, it's just like, what am I doing?
So, I think my second thing would be to actually make music. Just like, I haven't made music I'm proud of for a while until recently, and I just want to make a lot of music I'm proud of, really. It's kind of why I'm here. I want to kind of give people escapism through music, like how it gave me, I guess. And I can't do that if I'm not happy with what I'm doing. So, I want to be happy with what I'm doing.
Number three, I want to collaborate with people more. I've been asked a couple of times, and I've turned people down just because I've got so much uni work going on. But I'd really like to do that. I think there's so many talented people I'd love to work with. So, I want to get a couple of collabs out. I'll probably do that before I drop another album, I think. Yeah.
Kade: All right. Well, I think we will probably wrap it there, if that's all good, thanks for you time!
kaya!: Yeah, that's great. Thank you so much.
