#gregfred

This is what they’re like I think

doomed! by the narrative

Thank you for the ask <3 (to every else who sent me a character ask, I'm working on it :)

First impression

I actually never hated him or had strong feelings about him. I was introduced to AA through narumitsu fanfic but I knew I wanted to play the games so I avoided everything with spoilers, including everything Manfred. I guess I just thought of him vaguely as a villain and Miles' mentor/father figure.

Impression now

He's one of my favorite Ace Attorney characters. I have him at 4th but honestly, maybe he's 3rd now?? I have developed an attachment to this ridiculous evil man. I love him so much. I wish there was more canon content of him, but I think he's an interesting character with a lot of room for nuance.

Favorite moment

He doesn't really have many canon moments (and I haven't played AAI). But probably when he gloated Phoenix into cross-examining Polly the parrot and it's implied that he witness-coached a parrot. Manfred, you are an insane person.

Idea for a story

I just want to see a story where Manfred is force-fed a redemption arc. Like for example a no DL-6 AU where Gregory manages to get a Manfred properly investigated for forging evidence. But to ensure he doesn't get another penalty, Manfred tries to frame another prosecutor to throw Gregory off his trail.

Only, Manfred finds out that the person he is framing is actually guilty of forging evidence. Manfred has to follow through with his plan and gets dragged into working with Gregory. Gregory is surprised but grateful that Manfred has been so helpful in weeding out corruption in the prosecutor's office, and wants to befriend/ally with Manfred. Manfred is seething with hatred. (Oh and eventual Shingou :)

Unpopular opinion

Manfred as a character deserves a lot more nuance. There's... a lot to talk about but these are the three main things I have a strong opinion on:

1) He was a flawed parent and I think it's more interesting to explore those flaws than to just label him abusive for the sake of villainizing him.

2) It does not makes sense for Manfred to be sexist/homophobic/etc. Simply because I don't think he cares enough to hate a group of people like that. He is very rational, efficient, and his perfectionism is focused on his prosecuting career. If anything, he discriminates against defense attorneys (lmao).

3) Manfred didn't brainwash or force Miles into becoming a prosecutor. I'm sure Manfred was influential but Miles had his own reason to be a prosecutor that stemmed from DL-6. Miles was also always a perfectionist (the paper cranes thing) and the von Karma family brand of perfectionism just amplified it.

Favorite relationship

Shingou!! <3 (Gregory Edgeworth/Manfred von Karma)

Defense attorney/prosecutor ship, toxic enemies to lovers, doomed romance, or super slowburn (if no DL-6 AU), bitter courtroom rivals turned bickering old married couple (who still duke it out in court), co-parenting Miles and Franziska (before officially getting together).

Favorite headcanon

Naomi/Esteban

Who would end a heated argument by defending their actions with ‘because I love you!’ ?

Both to be honest. Albeit in slightly different ways. Esteban is more likely to have pre-emptively made a decision/taken action without informing Naomi or asking for her permission first. And Naomi would be livid that she wasn't consulted beforehand. Esteban would be very smug and condescending and talk about how he knows better since he's older (physically, maybe but not necessarily mentally) and wiser (questionable) so Naomi should defer to his judgement. And he would use "I love you" in a slightly manipulative way to try and silence all her protestations. (It doesn't work. His love for her just makes her even more determined to save him from his own noble urges).

In circumstances that specifically involve Esteban putting himself at risk (to protect Naomi/other members of his family/Avalor), he would probably also try to pull the "I am older and less worthy/important, so I am more disposable if things should go wrong" bullshit, which would make Naomi absolutely livid.

Also I think it would be impossible for Naomi to end the argument simply with "because I love you." She would specifically end it with "because I love you, you asshole!" (Emphasis on that last part). Sure she loves him and wants him to know that's why she's behaving as she is. But she also wants to remind him that he is incredibly aggravating and often stupid and she can just barely stand the sight of him sometimes.

Would they build a pillow fort together just because?

Just because? No I don't think so. And certainly not together. That being said, I can see them building separate pillow forts under very specific circumstances for the sheer purpose of outdoing each other. One of them mentioned building pillow forts as children and being very good at it. And the other immediately follows up with "That is nothing. I built forts twice as high and just as impressive." and the inevitable response is "Oh yeah. Prove it!"

And so there just ends up being the pettiest little competition as to who can build the best fort. (Elena is named the judge since she has a foot in both camps. And she's rather shook about the whole thing. She herself would've absolutely accepted a pillow fort building challenge in an instant. But like she kind of expected Naomi and Esteban of all people to act like actual, reasonable adults--as they do in most circumstances. But no, they are the ones acting like children just because neither can bend even in a little where the other is concerned).

Not sure who would win the competition, though I might have to give a slight edge to Esteban. Simply because we know he likes to stack a pillow given the like 6+ we see on his bed in the sick day episode. (Of course, if Elena had taken part, she probably would've won because she has even more stacked pillows on her own bed and she's more stubborn than either of the others to boot).

Can they stay up all night just talking?

Could they stay up all night talking? Yes, probably. Both have a lot to say, enjoy the sound of their own voice, and like spending as much time as they possibly can with their partner.

Would they stay up all night talking? I kind of doubt it. While both are very hard workers, they are also two of the more practical characters on the show. (To an extent, Esteban can definitely have his super irrational moments). Therefore, they know the importance of getting a good night's sleep. They also seem like the sort that genuinely enjoy the sleep that they get. Like they're not going to protest too much or try to stay up any longer than necessary. Sleep is good (especially in each other's arms), so there is no strong drive to push it off.

Do they like watching clouds or star gazing?

Both of them are canonically into sailing, and using the stars to navigate is kind of a big part of that. So I definitely think they would look at the stars together. Additionally, Naomi has lived in a bunch of different places, and Esteban traveled a lot during his time as chancellor. So I think they would both know and talk a lot about the different names for various constellations in different places--as well as any legends/stories associated with these or the stars themselves.

On a similar note, they might also watch the clouds a bit--but more out of practicality than enjoyment. It's always good to be on top of changes in the weather--especially when one or both is out at sea and/or if they have specific plans outdoors in the near future. That being said, Naomi is particularly fond of pointing out any cloud that she sees that even vaguely resembles Esteban's facial hair. (Esteban's usual reply: "You do me a great disservice with that remark, Miss Turner! I would never allow such a miserable, misshapen thing to grace my face.")

Gregory/Manfred

Choose one song that perfectly describes their relationship.

I'm sorry, but I am so bad at this. I don't know music like at all. (It's really just musical theater and artists my parents like. That is the extent of my music knowledge).

So we're gonna have a few songs from random musicals and they're gonna be angsty since that's where my brain goes with this ship.

So I don't think this one will come as a particular surprise especially given I know you are a Les Mis fan...but yeah, the whole sequence of Confrontation --> Stars--> Javert's Suicide.

Just Manfred being horrified and disgusted at being at Gregory's mercy and the audacity of this man to be kind and just and dedicated toward the Truth when he has no right. Just go ahead and substitute "defense attorney" for "thief"/"criminal" in a lot of Javert's lyrics, and you've got Manfred being a toxic, doomed, would-be tsundere.

"Damned if I'll live in the debt of a thief/ Damned if I'll yield at the end of the chase./ I am the Law and the Law is not mocked./ I'll spit his pity right back in his face./ There is nothing on Earth that we share....

"How can I allow this man to hold dominion over me...This desperate man whom I have hunted."

And as for another toxic musical yaoi ship, Judas' reprise of "I Don't Know How to Love Him" from Jesus Christ Superstar. (Arguably Mary Magdalene's original as well). Just Manfred destroying the man that he loves (unrequitedly?) as Judas has done--simply because their goals are not aligned and because he doesn't know how to handle his feelings that he can't help but feel are irrational--especially as Gregory (or Jesus in the original) is just so damned Good and Manfred knows he never would've been worthy of him.

And even though I don't particularly read MVK as wallowing in guilt nearly as much as I do with Kristoph in krisnix, I think here could be an element of that there as well.

"I have been splattered with innocent blood./ I will be dragged through the slime and the mud./ I have been splattered with innocent blood!/ I will be dragged through the slime and the slime and the slime and the mud...

I..I don't know how to love Him./ I don't know why he moves me./ He's a man; he's just a man./ He is not a King./ He is just the same as anyone I know. /He scares me so."

There's also a bit of a similar feel from Burr's parts of "The World was Wide Enough " from Hamilton. Realizing that your idealogical opposite and narrative foil and foe didn't need to die at your hands. That your victory at long last is distinctly Pyrrhic and that there was and should've been room for both of you in the courtroom (which is THE world for all intents and purposes for Manfred).

(For both of the above songs, the beginning isn't really the vibe for angsty Manfred/Greg, so I went ahead and linked to right where the relevant part starts).

And on a much, much lighter note. "Horny Angry Tango" from Crazy Ex-Girlfriend. (Bonus in that both characters are lawyers and the background of this is them duking it out in court in a proxy battle for their relationship issues.) Just Manfred and Gregory getting super hot under the collar while arguing against each other in court, but also like genuinely being furious with each other as opposed to just horny and in denial.

And similarly, You're Only Second Rate from The Return of Jafar. I see this as early in Manfred and Gregory knowing each other. Manfred is just so aggravated by Gregory and thinks its so absurd that Gregory thinks he is a match for him. And he just quickly becomes overly obsessed with him in a totally not healthy or normal way that Greg in no way asked for. But Manfred just can't let this go for some reason. (It's a crush; he's got a crush, but he'll never realize it).

Who would get into a fight to defend the other’s honor? Who tends to the other’s wounds?

I'm not sure I can see either of them getting into a fight to defend the other's honor. Gregory doesn't ever think fighting is the answer, and it would take awhile for Manfred to ever get to the point where he is self-aware enough to admit that he cares about Gregory in order to defend him.

That being said, I can definitely see Manfred getting into a fight that concerns Gregory in some way. Maybe he's jealous of someone else he thinks is moving in on his man? Or someone (Gant probably) makes this mistake of teasing Manfred about his obvious "crush." Then, Manfred gets really really defensive about it (he's so in denial) and may even retaliate with his fists if the person is really pushy about it.

Greg would have to be around to bandage Manfred's wounds, but he would definitely do it and very carefully. Which of course makes Manfred even more furious about everything. HOW DARE HE BE KIND WHEN THIS IS ALL HIS FAULT IN THE FIRST PLACE?

Who tops? Who bottoms?

Honestly, I don't think I've ever seriously thought about this, lol. I am friendly with some Manfredf*ckers, though and so I have thought/heard a little bit about their thoughts re: von Karma sex in general.

My main feeling is that I feel like whether Manfred would top or bottom depends entirely on whom he is being shipped with. He bottoms for Gant and Blaise, he tops Udgey, Yanni, Phoenix, Miles or Kristoph (I've only seen it one fic but like...👀).

But as for Gregory...you know I have a feeling Manfred would bottom for him too. Specifically in the sense of being a rather pushy power bottom and sort of for similar reasons as Kristoph. He's super uptight and repressed--and I feel there's a part of him that would enjoy losing some of his trademark control and perfection but specifically in a controlled, safe, private environment like the bedroom. Also, he's worth it so he would enjoy making his partner do most of the work and he just sits and enjoys like the perfect and deserving von Karma that he is.

As for Gregory, I guess see him more as a service top anyway. He doesn't strike me as particularly dominant, but he strikes me as a submissive even less. Maybe it's the overall "dad" energy that he exudes, but I feel like he would be very attentive to his partner and focus on making sure that they feel good and are well-looked after.

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