#fanon hate

before i even get started, i know these are kids shows told in 20 minute episodes, and that the reason for my beef is because the 2008 clone wars show was focusing primarily on the jedi, and didnt have the time/wasnt interested in treating the GAR as an actual military and needed to appeal to a young audience. i get that. i do. now with that out of the way im going to bitch and moan unapologetically about how X Thing Ruined Star Wars, because that's the fandom's national sport, ok?

the shows treat the GAR like a high school. everyone is somewhat childish (to appeal to the young audience). disobeying orders is something cool heroes do. (ANAKIN.) improvisation is treated as a fun and cool tactic that generally works out after a whacky adventure, not something you do as a last resort when your actual plan fails. main character's competency is primarily shown through their enemies (and sometimes their minor character allies) suddenly becoming inexplicably stupid.

'good soldiers follow orders' becomes a terrifying signal that a character has lost their agency. 'when have we ever followed orders?' becomes a rallying cry and heroic last words.

when youve written a military THAT badly, how are you supposed to force your beloved characters to follow Order 66? well, you're kind of stuck with mind control.

@tion-mehmirde re: this post

full disclosure i haven't watch tcw in years so this pretty much my opinions and commentary on fan attitudes about the clones than actual 'here is what canonically happened in the show'

so fox has like 3 minutes screen time total. he's a plot device, not an explored character. he kills fives because fives is acting erratic and was believed to be dangerous. that's about as far as tcw goes into it as far as i recall

there are two major fan attitudes about fox that i see:

poor little meow meow, subject of every whump, goncharoved him a whole personality (the sum of which is basically over-worked and caf-addicted with a side of weirdly handled martyrdom). regularly mind controlled and electrocuted by palpatine.

(nevermind that palpatine is far too subtle to need to directly mind control anyone and CERTAINLY smarter than 'i will torture this random clone for funsies'. it's a real case of people not actually bothering to think about the methods and motivations and goals of their antagonist and just making the evilest guy they can possibly think of)

and as a reaction to this first, extremely popular fanon, 'that guy is the cops'. i mainly tend to also take this attitude because goncharoved fox is not to my tastes. people see that attitude and say 'actually, what if fox embraced the republic's fascism, what if he wasn't a heroic martyr, what if he took the terrible situation the clones are in and didn't fight it, what if he seized the power he was given with both hands'

i find this more compelling than poor little whumpee meow meow fox. it looks like people projecting the whole Situation with america's increasingly militarized and fascist police system onto star wars to me- or at least their understanding of it- which is like, pretty apt, and a scathing extension of what the prequels are politically (a parallel to america's descent into imperialism and fascism)

he wasnt training anybody before the war started, he was busy being a cadet himself

you guys know that alpha is one of 100 alpha arcs that aren't significantly older than the other initially deployed clones right. you know he has 99 other peers (not getting into spar ect ect)

I AM HONORED TO BE YOUR LEGENDS LORE GOOGLE MUTUAL

ok so. sources probably conflict bc this is star wars, of course they do. what i care about is repcomm so we're just gonna go with that as our primary source with wookieepedia as secondary sources

first we gotta get some dates. unfortunately star wars doesnt really give months for most dates but years is still a starting place. these dates are all pulled from wookieepedia, legends page when applicable/different

also we're using geonosis as our date reference point since the timeline is honestly so hard to work with

order 66 happens 19 bby

1st battle of geonosis, 22 bby, the clone wars are 3 years long

boba fett's birth date is listed as 32 bby, meaning he was 10 at geonosis. cody, rex, ordo, fi, spar, and sull are all also listed with a birth date of 32 bby, so we're down to a difference of months here. essentially they're all the same age though- boba himself, troopers, nulls, commandos, and alphas

I REPEAT. ALPHA IS NOT SIGNIFICANTLY OLDER THAN THE CORE OF THE GAR. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. HE ISNT THE ONLY ALPHA EITHER.

but who's actually oldest? and is wookieepedia entirely correct? this is the part where i open repcomm and ignore everything else. i don't even know if anything else contradicts because i'm not checking

chapter 1 of triple zero, kal has just arrived on kamino. it's eight years before geonosis, and 2 years into the cloning program

(ALSO ITS SO FUCKING GREAT THAT THIS IS KAL'S INTRODUCTORY LINE LMAOOO <3)

he does see a lot of clone babies in gestation vats, just like we see in attack of the clones as well as cadets of varying ages- the kaminoans continue producing troopers through the entire ten years of the cloning program, so yes, the 'first generation' (clones deployed at geonosis) ARE older than a lot of later clones. but we dont really have a lot of those later clones as named characters as far as i know

anyways

the nulls appear to kal to be 4 or 5 (also peep jango apparently being legitimately shocked by them)

chronologically the nulls are NEARLY two, which probably means like 1 year and 11 months or something

(pause for me to cry about this entire scene, 'kal was instantly proud of all of them,' 'how would you like to be called ordo, he was a mandalorian warrior,' kal teaching them to embrace their fear as a mechanism their body uses to help protect them, but this is gonna be long enough as it is)

and then we have jango showing up with boba. no real indication of if boba or the nulls are actually older, but it's implied that they're very very close in actual age, if not the same age. we also get mention of the commandos and the alphas.

now, this is now just down to what i think and what makes sense to me. the whole point of the nulls is that they were experimental units- the kaminoans wanted to see if tinkering with the genome would be worth it, and ultimately decided it wasn't. it would actually make sense to me if the nulls were at least a year or two older than the rest of the clones- the kaminoans need time to see if their experiment panned out, don't they? but the nulls are also 10 at geonosis

while the nulls have been flash-trained and put through some trial runs at this point, it's indicated that the alphas and commandos aren't quite ready for training yet. this could be because the alphas and commandos are just a bit too young yet, it could be that the kaminoans put the nulls through training at a younger age than they're doing for non-experimental units. not totally clear

this is another point that is important to me: multiple times the nulls pass for clone troopers. i keep seeing headcanons of them being noticeably taller/bigger than other clones and while it is true that they're canonically slightly heavier, i think the difference is probably like 10-20 pounds, most people cannot easily tell the difference. ordo puts on corr's armor and just notes that it's slightly tighter than he's used to. mereel infiltrated kamino in trooper armor unnoticed, even while directly speaking to a kaminoan

here is my opinion on it: -the nulls and boba are basically the same age -the alphas were created next, but a few months after. by this point the kaminoans had decided (possibly because of the nulls' high mortality rate in gestation) that the alphas would be fully unaltered aside from the accelerated aging. the nulls' behavior 'issues' proved to the kaminoans that this was the right call -the commandos were created at the same time or shortly after the alphas. we're talking within weeks if not days. they have minor genetic changes to work better as a team but that's about it. -the troopers then begin production, now that the kaminoans have lots of practice altering jango's genome. heavy alteration for better social cooperation and obedience. -we're talking a span on like 4 months for all of this

you could say that ordo's gray hairs support the nulls being maybe 4-6 months older than everybody else, but i really think he is just that stressy, and there's also book evidence for clones actually aging at variable rates depending on how much stress they're under

quick note for omega: i think her existence is just insane and she's only here because disney was making a children's show and needed a child character (and girl so they can get inclusivity points), but i could see her being made anywhere from at the same time as boba to up to 3 years later. her wookieepedia page doesn't say, because the bad batch never bothered to give us any concrete information on... anything.

i... don't like kamino/clone/cadet babysitting headcanons

i don't like headcanons that present alpha-17 as the big brother not only of most clones in general, but also of the other alphas, who are all roughly as big of assholes and hardasses as he is

i don't like it when fan content forgets or ignores or doesn't adequately represent the clones as being in a military, having military culture, and everything that means

i don't like it when their entire situation is softened and the edges are knocked off