One thing that I find absolutely hilarious is that Bhaal is the worst father ever, and that the Mother-Goddesses of the Realms seem to have taken offense to that.
This also turned into an analysis on Shar, Selune and Shadowheart (somewhat) halfway through...
The first Mother-Goddess he managed to piss off was Chauntea, the primordial goddess of agriculture (who was once far more wild and settled down to make sure that her children (mortals) have an easier life (farming, homesteads etc.) and also begged for the sun to be created, so that life could begin to exist), who you really shouldn't mess with. She is also Lathander's wife.
Yeah.
An aspect of Chauntea (the Earthmother, who is also regarded as the personificstion if the Moonshae Isles) helped kill the shapeshifting monstrosity 'Kazgaroth' (in the Moonshae triology he is an aspect of Malar and a servant of Bhaal (Bhaal runs around as the Ravager), in Halls of Heroes both Kazgaroth and the Ravager are Bhaal's Avatars, and somewhere else was said (I think in Realms Secreteriat) that Kazgaroth IS the Ravager... complicated).
Anyway. Bhaal got pretty pissed off about the fact that Kazgaroth was destroyed (it doesn't even matter whether or not it was his Avatar because he always gets angry when anyone dares lay a hand on his servants and allies), and decided that for this offense against him every living thing on the Isles had to be obliberated.
Well, after figuring out that it was the Earthmother who had helped kill Kazgaroth (he seems somewhat ignorant about the fact that this is an aspect of Chauntea) he murdered her. Did anyone expect something else?
Moving on.
Way later Chauntea had her revenge. And when I say she took revenge I actually mean to say that she absolutely whooped his ass. Bhaal got the crap beaten out of him for ever daring to lay a finger on her children (both the mortals and the guardians of the Isles she had created). That man got so roughed up he couldn't even move after she (and the mortals she guided) were done with him:
'Here he lay in broken despair... motionless... Thus he would lie for generations...'
I mean, he is still my favourite deity but he did have it coming...
Also, I find it very funny that Chauntea, the ever-patient goddess, one of the most ancient gods that exist, who loves to tend to flowers and pet little animals, looked at Bhaal fucking everything up and decided that, perhaps, kindness wasn't the answer here.
Bhaal, compared to Chauntea, is a literal infant. He is somewhat 1400 years old and Chauntea was there before Toril even existed. She is 30.000+ years old. And he still decided that it was a good idea to piss her off (as Jergal so accurately puts it: he is imprecise in his wrath (and he was pissed about Kazgaroth's demise)).
The whole ordeal can be summarized by the image of a little, unruly child trying to square up to an old grandmother (who also happens to be a former MMA-fighter), only to end up getting dragged kicking and screaming back to his home by the ear.
The second mother-goddess he managed to make angry was Selune. To be precise: the aspect of Selune called Bright Nydra.
Selune is, as most probably now, the Moonmother who is also, sometimes, credited with having created lycanthropy. Furthermore, she is a goddess associated with guidance and pregnancy.
As if pissing off Chauntea wasn't bad enough, he also decided that going after the even more powerful and more ancient deity was a splendid idea (I would also like to add that he was far weaker here than he was when he tried to mess with Chauntea).
Which, as everyone can guess, didn't end well for him either.
We don't know exactly when they clashed with one another, but we do know that it happened sometime during the Time of Troubles. It's said that Bhaal was pursuing Midnight (the mortal that would become the Mystra seen in Bg3) just after having escaped his amber-prison in High Horn (the image of Bhaal stuck in amber is still something I hope to see illustrated one day (they also made a ceiling crash down upon him and slammed doors in his face (you wanna survive Bhaal? Run away and slam every door shut behind you))).
Anyway, the battle between the aspect of Selune and the Avatar of Bhaal took place at the River Reaching, near the Farsea Marshes, which Bhaal sought to cross to catch Midnight and claim one of the Tablets of Fate.
Their battles (apparently they had multiple clashes with each other) were described as 'relentless'. During the one where Nydra beat him up, she actually drove him out of the Marshes (which I imagine as him running away with his tail between his legs, so to speak). Given that later, during the events of Bg3, he has his eyes set on Isobel (and even grants Durge the Slayer-form when Shadowheart kills Aylin despite having done nothing themselves, I assume he is giddy about the fact that Selune lost her daughter and is in a good enough mood to grant them the slayer (I also think he hates both Aylin and Isobel because he got wrecked by Selune more than a 100 years prior)).
Also, Bhaal was known to the inhabitants of the Marshes as Bale, and in one version of Bhaal's backstory, he was known as 'Tharlagaunt Bale' and actually a colleague of (Elah) Nydra, before both of them got fucked over by Jergal and she ran away to her mother Selune (I am only taking this lore with a grain of salt, though).
The Bright Nydra version:
'Legends claim that Bright Nydra is the daughter of Selune and Shaundakul, who fell to Faerun from the trailing lights of the moon (known as the Tears of Selune) in the form of a falling star on a midwinter night a millennium ago. Although this may well have been true long ago, today she is but an aspect of Selune, Lady of Silver and goddess of the moon... Drover tales relate her relentless battles with an evil being known as Bale (Bhaal), whom she supposedly defeated and drove out of the Marshes during the Time of Troubles...' -Polyhedron 117, Forgotten Deities
The Elah Nydra version:
'Towards that end, the Lord of the End of Everything began identifying candidates among the most powerful of the Netherese archwizards that could serve as vessels for a portion of his deific power and act as his champions,... These individuals included the famed Ioulaum Halargoth, as well as names such as Alithar Chonis (said by some to be a descendant of the fabled Jeriah Chronos), Tharlagaunt Bale, and Elah Nydra... Elah nurtured her divine spark with the blessing of Selune and became the minor deity known as Bright Nydra to the Marsh Drovers of the Tunlands... relinquished her mantle of divinity and was wholly subumed by Selune prior to the raising of the Standing Stone. Tharlagaunt Bale became a feared assassin in and around the lands south of the Dragonmere ere he came together with two companions and sought his revenge on Jergal, rising to full-fleged godhood as the deity Bhaal in the centuries that followed the fall of Netheril.' -Lord of the End of Everything (alternate version, Realms Secreteriat)
Yeah. It's safe to say that Bhaal and Selune aren't dear friends.
And it's actually a surprise to me that he and Shar aren't allies. I know that Myrkul gets along with her (although he also gets along with Jergal, and I do wonder if he ever noticed Jergal and Shar getting somewhat frisky with each other (I would love to forget everything I know about Jergal's love life, but I can't)). Bane... I don't think Bane would survive Shar, honestly. I would pay money to see her make him cry, but I know that he has enough brains left to not start pissing her off (which is an actual surprise, cause he is constantly being a pain to everyone around him (everyone should thank Tempus for rocking his shit)).
But Bhaal and Shar should get along like a house on fire!
Every murder, inevitably, causes loss, and in ancient Netheril, Shar was a goddess of murder (also makes me wonder if mortal Bhaal ever offered her a prayer)! They also like disguises, infiltration, darkness, silence, sneaking around, seduction, stabbing people in the back, and many other things.
I also wanna add that they can bond over liking black and purple (Shadowheart is being mean when saying that Bhaal has no style! The temple we see in Bg3 is really more Larian's weird interpretation of a Bhaal that is utterly chaotic (I still haven't forgiven them for saying that he isn't subtle)).
Oh. Both Bhaal and Shar also have a habit of messing with memories (Sarevok, Durge, Vicionia... the list is endless). And they both hang out with Talona and Loviatar. Although, I suppose, Shar is not happy about the fact that Bhaal and her son/daughter Mask got along... and Hoar. Shar doesn't like Hoar either, and Bhaal does.
They probably aren't allies because neither can decide whom Talona actually serves, and because Bhaal keeps hanging out with Hoar and Mask. And I also like to imagine that they keep having debates over who is the most elegant out of them. Shar likes dancing, and Bhaal keeps talking about 'killing with deftness, elegance, speed and swiftness' (performing a dance of death). Yeah. Mortal Bhaal definitely visited a few of her temples in his time. That would explain so many of their similarities.
That being said, I wonder if I am allowed to say that Shar is another mother-goddess he pissed off (I will elaborate, just give me time).
I think most people are aware of the fact that Mask is said to be Shar's child (no one knows who the father is, but I am pointing the finger at Jergal). Mask and Shar... don't get along. Mainly because she believes that Mask's dominion over the shadows should be hers.
'Shar may attempt to consume Mask as well, for she nurses a cold anger for his dominion over shadow.'
Bane is probably also calling dibs on the shadow thing, but at least for now he still prefers to be Mask's ally (although after what Mask did with Cyric, I can't see him (or Bhaal, for that matter) being happy to see Mask... although Mask, at least as Godsbane, is surprisingly bloodthirsty... and they no longer get along with Cyric either. So that may check out).
Anyway, the part I actually wanted to bring to the table was what seems to be the lore-reason of why Shar is the way she is:
https://x.com/TheEdVerse/status/1411466580555350029
You definetly need to read this.
If this doesn't get changed by WotC anytime soon, then the reason Shar is the goddess of loss is because she once had a child (or, at least, something similar to a child) that she lost...
If that is so, and taking into account the whole 'Sisters of Light and Darkness' story, then it might very well be that Shar was the first being in the space of Abeir-Toril (or, possibly, the entire Realmspace) that ever experienced loss. If she was the first being to experience it, then it would make sense that the concept of loss was brought into existence by her, which also explains why she is the goddess of it.
Sadly, we don't know what exactly happened, as Ed already pointed out and whether or not that idea will even survive, but, for now at least, it is there.
And, after further investigation, it would actually explain so much.
Shar, in 'Sisters of Light and Darkness', has never been attributed with the concept of loss (as in 'getting stripped of something', and not as in 'being defeated').
Only with abscence/nothingness, darkness, and, after her clash with Selune and Chauntea, loneliness. But not loss. Here:
'This was the birth of the world and the heavens. After Lord Ao created Realmspace, there was a period of timeless nothingness, a misty realm of shadows before light and dark were separate entities. Within this dim chaos stalked 13 lords of shadow, the Shadevari - whether they came form elsewhere or are children of the shadow itself, none can say.
Eventually this primordial essence coalesced into twin beautiful goddesses who were yin and yang to each other; they were so close they thought of themselves as one being. The Two-Faced Goddess created the heavenly bodies of the crystal sphere and together infused them with life to form the Earthmother, Chauntea. (Although Chauntea has since contracted her essence to encompass only Abeir-Toril, in the beginning she embodied all matter in Realmspace.) This new universe was lit by the face of the silver-haired goddess, who called herself Selune, and darkened by the welcoming tresses of the raven-haired goddess, Shar, but no heat or fire existed within it.
Chauntea begged for warmth so that she could nurture life and living creatures upon the planets that were her body and limbs, and the two sisters-Who-Were-One become divided, as for the first time they were of two minds. Silvery Selune contested with her dark sister over whether or not to bring further life to the worlds. During this great conflagration, the gods of war, disease, murder, and death, among others, were created from residues of the deific battle. At one point during the battle, Selune seized the advantage and reached across time and space to a land of eternal fire. Fighting the pain of the blaze, which burned her sorely, she broke off a fragment of that ever-living flame and ignited one of the heavenly bodies so that it burned in the sky and warmed Chauntea.
Incensed, Shar redoubled her attack on her injured twin and began to snuff out all light and heat throughout the crystal sphere. Again Selune gave of herself and tore the divine essence of magic from her body, flinging it desperately at her sister in defense of life in the sphere. This essence entered Shar, ripped an equal portion of energy from her, and reformed behind her as the goddess of magic, known now as Mystra, but then as Mystryl. Though Mystryl was composed of both light and dark magic, she favored her first mother Selune initially, allowing the silver goddess to win an uneasy truce with her more powerful, dark twin. Consumed by bitterness at her defeat, Shar vowed eternal revenge.
The twin goddesses contested for eons as life struggled into existence on Toril and the other planets under Chauntea's watchful gaze. Shar remained powerful, but bitterly alone, while Selune waxed and waned in power, often drawing strength from her allied Daughters and sons and like-minded immigrant deities. Over time, Shar grew strong again, aided by the shadevari who preferred night to blinding light and who stalked the Realms seeking to meld light and dark into shadowy chaos once again. Shar's plot to reform the world after her own desires was undone when Azuth, the High One, formerly the greatest of all mortal spellcasters and now consort to Mystra (incarnate successor to Mystryl), found a way to imprison the shadevari in a pocket-sized crystal sphere located beyond the edges of the world by creating the illusion of a realm of shadows. The Lords of Shadow were drawn to investigate, and before they discovered the trick, Azuth imprisoned the shadevari with the Shadowstar, a key of shadows forged by Gond. The High Lord then hurled the key into the endless reaches of the cosmos allowing life to flourish on in Chauntea's loving hands.'
Some say Shar never wanted anything to exist at all and that she was spiteful and hateful from the very beginning, but that's simply not true.
Shar helped Selune create the 'crystal spheres' of the Realmspace and also helped bring life into them. It's specifically mentioned that they couldn't agree on whether or not further life should be allowed to exist.
Shar had always represented absence. She had always been the nothingness that was before Ao filled it. By helping Selune make the crystal spheres, by helping her make Chauntea, she had already helped her turn parts of the nothing into something that does exist. Shar did not clash with Selune out of hatred, envy, or bitterness, but because the 'nothingness' that she represented was already almost gone. When Selune made the sun, and with the help of others (mainly Chauntea) other planes, she, indirectly, "upset the balance". Now 'nothingness' and 'existing' were no longer equal, because Realmspace was filled more and more with things that were/existed.
I don't blame Selune or Chauntea for Shar's actions. They are still vile and unforgivable, but it puts her longing for absence into perspective. It's not born out of sheer sadism; it's the feeling of having been betrayed.
It's also said that Shar wants to reform the world, not to utterly destroy it (although there are conflicts in the lore itself about that paeticular goal/desire).
Shar also only started sniffing out 'all the light and heat' after the sun had been created.
I also find the following line wildly interesting if we keep in mind on how the sun came to be:
"I am neither. I am nothing. I am the empty room. The dreamless sleep. The shadow's shadow. There was no pain before my sister set the sun aflame. Now you exist to suffer..."
I may be reading too much into it... but the implications are there. Shar is said to be constantly grieving, to be bitter and alone... and she was separated from her sister completely after the sun was created (before it was set aflame, so to speak). Also, if you play a selunite cleric and make a prayer of reconciliation:
'Your heart aches faintly with an inexplicable feeling of loss.'
Logically speaking, a Selunite cleric who prays to Shar should know exactly why they suddenly feel like they lost something. Shar is, after all, the Lady of loss, and whenever a god touches you with their power, their essence is recognized:
'Father [Bhaal] claws into your heart and stops it for a single moment. As you begin to fear for your life, you know his love is close.'
'The blood in your veins beats to the rhythms of Eilistraee as the Dark Dancer's blessing strums you like a lyre.'
'Blessed by Tiamat, the flame of the Dragon Queen seems to roar in your breast like fire in a furnace. Let your enemies beware!'
'Walker, you are blessed by Mielikki, and even here among the stones of the city you smell the fragrance of the forest and feel moss beneath your feet.'
'That was because a sensation like a discordant scream stabbed into Szass Tam's mind, and it was so intense as to eclipse mere physical distress.' (Bane imbuing Szass Tam with knowledge (which he does by hitting him (how nice) but also by touching him with his divine essence)).
Bhaal is not inflicting the sensation of dying upon Durge out of cruelty (at least not in this version), but because he represents the process of dying in general. Of course, Durge will feel like they are in the middle of perishing if Bhaal touches them with his essence. Eilistras is a goddess associated with music, Tiamat with fire and chaos, Mielikki with the forests, and Bane with tyranny and domination (the loud shrills that drown out everything else and make themselves known by force).
A Selunite cleric should know this. They should be able to say that they feel like they lost something because Shar's essence touched them. But they don't. It's called inexplicable. And it's a peace offering made in the name of Selune... That just screams 'I feel betrayed and lost my sister, but I could never face this, and no one shall ever know (because I am constantly grieving and lashing out at everyone else for it (also: secrets))'.
Although we lack further lore on it, Shar did, apparently, have a child once that she lost (and Ed agreed on the matter that this was at least a reason for her constant grief (callback to the link I added)). I already said that this might very well be one of the reasons why she is associated with loss.
Anyway, back to Shar as a mother (I always have to think of Nocturnal from Elder Scrolls for some reason): I also wonder if Selune had anything to do with the loss of Shar's (supposed) child. May explain why she has a rite that specifically asks for children to find their way back home with only the light of the moon to follow (the same rite in which Shadowheart was taken from her parents).
But Shar displays a rather strange fixiation on being cslled a mother to begin with:
"Jenevelle is no more. She never left those dark woods - it was Shadowheart who emerged. This woman gave birth to you, but I made you. I am your Mother."
Then there is the whole thing of Shar's church being led by a 'Mother Superior', the fact rhat she calls her faithful her 'Children', the debacle with Mask (Lessinor being their true name (interesting that Shar gives them their real name instead of taking it) during 'The Twilight War' triology, Aylin's whole deal (the obsession with Selune's children), that in 'Mistress of the Night' superiors are also called 'Mother/Father Night', that Shar's followers specifically are supposed to take children away from their parents... also, I am pretty sure Shadowheart calls Shar her mother in Act 1 (in the sense of 'I am an orphan (also the implications of loss) and she raised me/made me who I am).
It could, of course, be a coincidence, but the amount of hints we get are getting suspicious.
Anyway, Shar as a mother who was consumed by grief after losing her child (and sister) is very fascinating to me. It also makes her relationship with her other (supposed) child (Mask) interesting. She does seem to treat them more coldly (which shouldn't be a surprise), but it also reminds me of how parents who lost their firstborn child treat their secondborn.
I dunno. Maybe I am being stupid and grasping at straws.
Welp. That's it. I may or may not come back to this
